Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

So apparently the leaker (in which I assume is the same leaker) stated this:

I do feel that this leaker is grasping at straws and making further excuses.

Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...g-what-they-want.64422/page-145#post-12076909

Seems like a desperate attempt to delay the crash of his train but if they deliver with something else, then I'm in.

Inb4 they show gameplay footage and it's real

 

[Will]

>no tripcode
>anonymous imageboard
IT'S REAL

Considering your last 10 posts I have no idea if you're genuine or pulling my leg

 

[PsySmasher]

They're simply moving the goalposts until the game and related material is fully-released. The phrase "Don't you people ever learn?" can apply to them.



One can say the same about Sans and Frisk from Undertale. People don't realize that the main character of a third-party has to get in first before a fan-favorite (a pattern that isn't broken so far).

Guys can we stop with the character rules. Whenever speculators are confident in a new "rule", they get disproven. By this point, we should know that in Smash, ANYTHING (within mild reason) is possible.

 

[Captain Fun]

Banjo isn't as iconic as people want him to be, it's mostly nostalgia.
The harsh truth is that even Rayman is more recognizable than him.
Banjo was the Shovel Knight of its time, a one hit-wonder that never took off into success.

... Shovel Knight is successful though. Treasure Trove sold over two million copies, which is a lot more than most indie games, and it continues to sell well.

And Banjo is iconic, just not relevant to games today.

 

[Fenriraga]

So apparently the leaker (in which I assume is the same leaker) stated this:

I do feel that this leaker is grasping at straws and making further excuses.

Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...g-what-they-want.64422/page-145#post-12076909

>Video

lolok. Can't wait to never hear from him again.

 

[Funktastic]

Rick Roll incoming.

 

[PlugMeister]

Well, now that my one wanted character (Banjo-Kazooie) has been completely and totally panned by this forum, I think it's safe to say that I don't have any wanted characters anymore. Now I'm just interested in seeing who gets added at all in the coming months, and whatever happens happens.

 

[DevaAshera]

Ken was way off-model too, and people had no problem recognizing him though, nor said "hey isn't that Dante!?".

Ken has the right shape, has long blond hair, and is heavily expected to be in..not hard to guess at him. No one is expecting Agnès and there are a lot of brunettes in anime style games..remember some people thought she was Tifa too.

If that "leak" had a poor quality render of someone like Sora, people would also recognise him before shuddering at said low quality. An anime artstyle isn't really a good explanation why people didn't recognise Agnes.

Sora has very iconic hair, like Cloud, you'd have to really mess up for him to not be recognized.

 

[Mc.Rad]

>Video

lolok. Can't wait to never hear from him again.

Somebody please ask for Agnes so that they would have to bull**** them in. They're just gonna edit the footage of existing characters in the game with a Smash 4 character mod.

 

[StormC]

Well, now that my one wanted character (Banjo-Kazooie) has been completely and totally panned by this forum, I think it's safe to say that I don't have any wanted characters anymore. Now I'm just interested in seeing who gets added at all in the coming months, and whatever happens happens.

Banjo is in. Believe.

Guh huh!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Guys can we stop with the character rules. Whenever speculators are confident in a new "rule", they get disproven. By this point, we should know that in Smash, ANYTHING (within mild reason) is possible.

Alright, so what is the only factor that would prevent a third party getting in? The company with the IP in question being stone dead (which most likely leads to a splinter company or someone acquiring the licenses anyway)?

Although Interplay is in a messy state right now and selling its IPs, I think Sakurai would somehow be able to still ask for Earthworm Jim anyway.

 

[Misery Brick]

It was definitely the crappy leak's fault, the art style didn't match Bravely Default's and you can't rely on stylistic stuff to be signifiers when it's an anime style. If someone made an off-model close up of Shulk, Marth, Lucina, or Roy, you'd likely have the same reaction of people not knowing who they were meant to be.

Yeah, it was funny. I remember people thinking Geno, Agnès, or Neku were more likely SE reps.

That's true, but if we got a unique newcomer from Street Fighter, it'd be Chun-Li..and I have little doubt that she'd be in before Ken if she could be an echo..people would also likely say Chun-Li is more iconic, important, and recognizable.

This isn't about importance or recognizability, it's about popularity and Shadow is more popular then Tails and easier to do as an Echo..kinda like the possible reason Luigi got in over Bowser, he was a popular, easy clone.

Oh no, we got a unique SF character, it would definitely be Chun-Li. She is the de-facto fighting game female character. She is also one of the most iconic characters in gaming period.
I just think Ken vs. Juri is a more apt comparison given they basically fill the same roles that Tails and Shadow respectively are.
One's the iconic P2 character and the other is the dark and modern fan favorite.
But your comparison to Luigi and Bowser doesn't exactly work, as they're both equally important in terms of the series. Shadow..not so much on the level of Bowser. I'd say that reward goes to Eggman/Robotnik or maybe even Metal Sonic.
And I don't think Sakurai would put in Shadow before he would Tails, like I said it'd be putting Juri before Ken. Especially when Tails is a pretty easy echo in terms of moveset, outside of an Up-B and animations.
Kinda like what people were exactly suggesting for Shadow.
Like I said, Sakurai could pull a fast one on me and I would be insanely wrong.

 

[Arcadenik]

Agnes is spelt wrong as Agnés, and most peoples make this kind of mistake, even I do this mistake. The proper name is Agnès.

But, now that I mention her, why does she has an accent on the e in her name? I can't seem to be able to find out.

Okay... now I am confused.

So Agnes's name in the leak is spelt wrong as Agnés even though the proper name is Agnés?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The leaker thought we'd fall for it.

But Artsy Omni boosted our IQ stat three and a half years ago with that Rayman "leak" :V

 

[Will]

I will say this: footage is possible. The game is rated, which implies a majority is set and ready to go. I have no idea if this will end up being posted and its ESRB leak 2.0 but whatever, just wanted to say that.

Okay... now I am confused.

So Agnes's name in the leak is spelt wrong as Agnés even though the proper name is Agnés?

Agnés
Agnès

The accent is flipped.

 

[Zathura]

This is Celica, she's one of the two main characters in Fire Emblem Gaiden on the Famicom and Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, Gaiden's remake, on the 3DS.

Spoiler

She could work as a Robin echo insanely well, like Robin, she uses swords and spells. However, she only uses Tomes in Heroes, in Gaiden & Echoes spells cost users HP, so a difference could be Celica having a Pichu-like damage mechanic for spells (maybe balance it with better Nosferatu use, which iirc Celica can use in Echoes).

Oh cool, I’d like her in then. Didn’t know about that remake, I’ll have to play it

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Wait, I'm the one comparing them when they're YOU'RE examples?

The idea that Banjo Kazooie isn't a relic of the past is laughable to me when most fans don't even know 2/5s of the franchise

Yes, you're comparing them by placing Banjo on the same level as them. ie characters who are barley talked about outside of smash.

Which is, as I've said, a load of horse****.

The franchise is dead and rotting but he still more recognizable to western audiences than Bravely Default

 

[Buzzwole]

Banjo isn't as iconic as people want him to be, it's mostly nostalgia.
The harsh truth is that even Rayman is more recognizable than him.
Banjo was the Shovel Knight of its time, a one hit-wonder that never took off into success.

Now here are the shoo-in DLC chars that will surely get added in the game:
-ARMS character
-Rex & Pyra
-A Pokemon

You got any proof that rayman is more recognizable? Because that just sounds like something you're assuming.

 

[Fenriraga]

Somebody please ask for Agnes so that they would have to bull**** them in. They're just gonna edit the footage of existing characters in the game with a Smash 4 character mod.

Agnes doesn't have a Smash 4 mod, at least not on Gamebanana. I think people are getting their hopes up for him even ATTEMPTING to post a video.

 

[Shroob]

I knew something was odd that he didn't post Incineroar despite following Verg and Loz18 to a T for his character choices.

Seeing the Agnes and Isaac render in full now, it's painfully obvious why. If he couldn't even get those to look professional, there's no way he could have passed off something like Incineroar.


Isabelle's render already looked terrible, I can't imagine him trying with something as detailed as a Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

I just want to know why they didn't simply focus on one character instead of making a bunch of original ones. Like, if they did focus on faking one of them, at least it could be more polished but when you fake so many renders your resources are spread thin.

 

[Will]

The franchise is dead and rotting but he still more recognizable to western audiences than Bravely Default

That's because of two main factors:
1. It's been around for 20 years
2. There are popular dudes out there hoping that these 20 year old characters get in because they have memories of said characters
rinse and repeat and it'll easily overshadow newer things

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Thing is though, with the roster supposedly being completely finalised way back in 2015, "too new" could genuinely be a valid argument as to why characters won't be in, although then again, greninja was planned for 4 before his games even came out so who really knows

Greninja was explicitly stated to be an exception to how Sakurai plan his newcomer roster in the same interview where he stated that had Awakening released 6 months later Robin may not have been a playable character. And obviously Roy was a last minute addition who was only considered because Sakurai wanted some clone characters during the middle of development, so his situation wouldn't help out any character with the exception of maybe the Octolings (as they'll be based off their appearance in Splatoon 2).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What makes me mad about Agnes being in the leak is that she isn't even the main character of either games.

It's this guy.

She's kind of the Geno of the game though. Similar expository role

 

[Jim_Puff]

I can't wait for no video to come out :v)

 

[Zathura]

Greninja was explicitly stated to be an exception to how Sakurai plan his newcomer roster in the same interview where he stated that had Awakening released 6 months later Robin may not have been a playable character. And obviously Roy was a last minute addition who was only considered because Sakurai wanted some clone characters during the middle of development, so his situation wouldn't help out any character with the exception of maybe the Octolings (as they'll be based off their appearance in Splatoon 2).

Oh cool thanks, didn’t know that

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Agnes doesn't have a Smash 4 mod, at least not on Gamebanana. I think people are getting their hopes up for him even ATTEMPTING to post a video.

All the more reason to ask for Agnés — he’ll be busted cause he can’t even replicate it lul

 

[N3ON]

I’m sure leakers would love people to buy into their claims, but really all they’re looking for is attention, because every fake leak will be proven fake eventually. They’re just a special breed of troll.

And last I checked this leak has been the topic of discussion pretty non-stop since it showed up. So even if you don’t believe it, which you shouldn’t, you’re still playing into the leakers’ hands.

 

[SebasSancy]

Banjo is definitely well-known and well loved. Let's please not pretend he's a forgotten character. I mean Yooka-Laylee had that super successful Kickstarter campaign for goodness sake. It's entire thing was "remember Banjo? That again". Anyone with interest in platforming history knows him.

Agnes is less well-known because let's face it, it's niche. I doubt most kids would recognize her. But on the other hand, come on, do people really think it's that upsurd she'd get in over Geno? She has similar Nintendo relevance to Bayonetta and is considered by many a 3DS icon (much like Banjo is a N64 icon). Plus it's been heavily hinted recently she'll get another game. And guess what? It'll almost for sure be a Switch exclusive that Nintendo pushes heavily.

Bravely Default is an icon. The first game sold 1 million copies I believe. I be shocked if there's anything releated to the game in Smash again (maybe is Square Enix fault)

So apparently the leaker (in which I assume is the same leaker) stated this:

I do feel that this leaker is grasping at straws and making further excuses.

Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...g-what-they-want.64422/page-145#post-12076909

a video? Ooooh I wanna see that

 

[ZephyrZ]

Back on the topic of Banjo, I actually think he's more likely then Agnes simply because the focus seems to be on fan favorite picks this time around. He's definitely more popular then Agnes as a whole. But that doesn't mean he's super iconic among us youngsters.

Anyway, I'm surprised that so many people think a Three Houses character is a lock for DLC. Sakurai said that he was hesitant as is with adding Corrin and only gave in because he believed Corn would make an interesting fighter, but none of the new guys have done anything half as interesting as Corrin's Dragon Fang yet. I don't think the mere fact that Edelgard carries an axe is nearly enough to cut it.

Maybe if they do echo fighter DLC I could see them doing that, but I have a hard time swallowing that idea that they'll release a fully unique FE character when we already have so many.

 

[Fenriraga]

I just want to know why they didn't simply focus on one character instead of making a bunch of original ones. Like, if they did focus on faking one of them, at least it could be more polished but when you fake so many renders your resources are spread thin.

Right? Like I legit thought that Shadow render was meant to be passed off as part of the art banner, but no, he legit expects us to believe that drawing-tier shading was meant for an official character Render.

 

[Will]

She's kind of the Geno of the game though. Similar expository role

I'd argue that's more Ringabel in Default, but she probably is in Second even though she isn't playable.

 

[Sharkarat]

I think you're actually underselling Tails by quite a lot here.
Tails is the Luigi to Sonic's Mario. He's one of the most iconic characters in gaming and platformers period. Just because Shadow has a larger and more vocal fanbase, doesn't mean that he has more of a status in gaming.
Hell, look at Sonic Mania. A lot of people were celebrating it as it explored classic Sonic and gave another game like the originals, and was devoid of modern Sonic.

I think your overselling any Sonic character that isn't Sonic Himself.

Like for instance, it's comparing Juri to Ken or maybe Chun-Li. ( I think Chun has more official costumes than her, so she may not be an apt comparison.) But you see a lot more love for Juri in the general SF community than you do for one of the most iconic characters of the series, Ken. That doesn't mean that Juri is considered way more iconic than Ken, it's just they have a larger fanbase.
But if you ask anyone who's familiar with video games, or at least knows a bit about them, who's more important or recognizable, they'll instantly say Ken.
Same goes for Shadow and Tails.

Why do you Tails Fans always downplay Shadow. he sure as hell isn't Juri, Shadow is more comparable to Akuma.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

... Shovel Knight is successful though. Treasure Trove sold over two million copies, which is a lot more than most indie games, and it continues to sell well.

And Banjo is iconic, just not relevant to games today.

So a 1 hit wonder. 2 million sales is very good, but it's not like the biggest hit of the decade.
Banjo is well-known, but there are others who bury him deep in the ground in terms of iconicity, like Rayman, Crash, Doomguy, etc

 

[StormC]

All I can think of when people talk about how XYZ is dead and irrelevant to today's generation:

 

[PlugMeister]

Banjo is in. Believe.

Guh huh!

It's not worth believing in a character from a dead franchise, apparently.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

That's because of two main factors:
1. It's been around for 20 years
2. There are popular dudes out there hoping that these 20 year old characters get in because they have memories of said characters
rinse and repeat and it'll easily overshadow newer things

I'm speaking specifically outside of smash here. You'll notice I'm not making this argument with Geno, who is a prime example of the smash community raising up someone who would have likely been quickly forgotten by now.

My point is your assessment of why Banjo is a popular pic is a false one (Though smash certainly hasn't hurt his relevancy)

 

[PsySmasher]

Alright, so what is the only factor that would prevent a third party getting in? The company with the IP in question being stone dead (which most likely leads to a splinter company or someone acquiring the licenses anyway)?

Geno is literally from a game that released over 2 decades ago, who's only other actual appearance is the original Superstar Saga, not even in the remake that released less than a YEAR ago.

People still think he has a chance of getting in. I'm not saying that's a wrong way of thinking, but one of the most requested characters is from a dead IP.

Same could be said for Banjo.

 

[Deleted member]

Thing is though, with the roster supposedly being completely finalised way back in 2015, "too new" could genuinely be a valid argument as to why characters won't be in, although then again, greninja was planned for 4 before his games even came out so who really knows

That right there, the Greninja point, is what a lot of people seem to brush off, even though that is a very big thing. Pokemon X & Y was just as unfinished as Smash 4, but Sakurai was handed Sugimori's design drawings and design documents alone and just went from there. This is why characters like Spring-Man, Rex & Pyra, and others shouldn't be discounted, because this stuff has happened before with characters that'd be considered "too new".

All that really matters to be honest is how the status of all franchises involved in the game are and in-house development of newer releases of games are for said franchises for these more newer characters.

 

[Mc.Rad]

She's kind of the Geno of the game though. Similar expository role

Ah yes, the side character... the character that always gets into Smash all of the time before the Main Character, especially if they are 3rd Party