Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NintenRob]

Genuine lore or fan made lore? Cuz I've played every main Kirby game and some of the side games and I don't notice much. Mostly due to a lack of text. I'm sure there's some stuff so if you have any examples then please, do share.

Next time you play, pause the game during a boss fight, especially the climactic ones

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The problem with Simon Belmont or pretty much any other Castlevania character is that they will have to deal with Alucard who is arguably the most popular and recognizable character in the franchise.

I'm sorry. I seriously doubt he's more well known by video game fans than Simon Belmont. I think the whole point of having a Castlevania character was because of the NES/SNES installments. But, I always considered the possibility of unlock able additions to current third party IPs.

• Castlevania: Alucard
• Final Fantasy: Terra Brandford
• Sonic: Shadow The Hedgehog

Also, while Simon or another Belmont's moveset would be awesome, Sakurai would probably love to have a go at Alucard who has his transformations, his magic spells which include Alucard's own version of Dracula's Teleport and then unleash three Fireballs attack(that would be a perfect Side B) his summons, and he can even use the Belmont Subweapons.

Why?

Capcom received two characters. Megaman in the initial game and Ryu as a download later.

I wouldn't rule out a similar situation with Kanomi.

Especially when Bomberman is originally Hudson Soft.

This makes me believe that we'll have a Nintendo Labo representation in Smash 5 as well, kinda like R.O.B or G&W

Dear lord, please tell me we're not talking about this again.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm sorry. I seriously doubt he's more well known by video game fans than Simon Belmont.

While Simon is arguably more well known than Alucard, to be fair, Symphony of the Night was the best-selling Castlevania game for over a decade, outselling any game Simon has starred in.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner is Bandanna Dee, proving that he is the undefeated champion as far as Kirby reps. Galacta Knight was at least halfway there at least. While both Ado and Magolor were last, with the former ahead of the latter.

Next up we have more Kirby coming through. Your choices are Queen Sectonia, Bonkers, Susie Haltmann, and Dark Matter (we all know which form works the most).

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And begin.

Aw, no Dark Matter? Dark Matter Blade is by far my preferred choice. Dee's fine tho too I guess

He's here now.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Symphony of the Night wasn't on a Nintendo system. Anyway, if a Castlevania rep isn't going to use some form of whip, what's the point?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Symphony of the Night wasn't on a Nintendo system. Anyway, if a Castlevania rep isn't going to use some form of whip, what's the point?

I'd like to see some third parties get extra characters as DLC.

• Castlevania: Alucard
• Final Fantasy: Terra
• Sonic The Hedgehog: Shadow

 

[Lukingordex]

May I ask why people seem to consider Shadow more than Tails? Tails imo is more iconic than him and has great potential for moveset while shadow...er... i just don't like shadow at all

 

[Deleted member]

Symphony of the Night wasn't on a Nintendo system. Anyway, if a Castlevania rep isn't going to use some form of whip, what's the point?

Neither was Final Fantasy VII, and both Alucard and Cloud had made other kinds of appearances on Nintendo systems.

And to be honest, while Simon is one of my most wanted, Alucard would be pretty hype, too. The latter may not use a whip, but his moveset potential is interesting in its own right.

 

[NintenRob]

Next poll going to be Daroach, a Yarn character, Marx and Taranza?

 

[Deleted member]

and has great potential for moveset while shadow...

-prepares the shotgun-

er... i just don't like shadow at all

....
-lowers it-

At least you admitted that and didn't finish that sentence that would have warranted the trigger...

 

[Krysco]

Next time you play, pause the game during a boss fight, especially the climactic ones

Right, I actually forgot that was a thing. The bosses get little bios of sorts on the pause screen. Granted, I don't tend to pause much. I'll probably look up some of them when I get home.

 

[Lukingordex]

-prepares the shotgun-



....
-lowers it-

At least you admitted that and didn't finish the sentence.

ok, ignoring this "moveset potential" part, since i believe the smash team is able to make a good moveset for literally any character, why would Shadow join the roster instead of Tails or Knuckles? Honesty question here

 

[TheLastJinjo]

ok, ignoring this "moveset potential" part, since i believe the smash team is able to make a good moveset for literally any character, why would Shadow join the roster instead of Tails or Knuckles? Honesty question here

More popular and requested, easier to make using Sonic as a basis, kind of like a Luigi Clone. Homing attack and spin dash as Netural and Down Special. Chaos Warp and Chaos Spear as Up and Side Special. Super Shadow as Final Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

May I ask why people seem to consider Shadow more than Tails? Tails imo is more iconic than him and has great potential for moveset while shadow...er... i just don't like shadow at all

Shadow is actually highly popular and one of the major protagonists in the 3D era. Things have changed where he isn't a big deal to the same degree anymore, but his popularity got him returned after Adventure 2, was able to get him his own game, and he, Sonic, and a new Hedgehog became the main protagonists of one of the next Gen games(the game has its issues, but it does make sense of how popular he is and why he was pushed so much).

Tails is still amazing in his own right, obviously, but he rarely is treated on the same level of "major character" in the same way as Shadow was at that time. He's still pretty much a secondary character in the 3D era after Adventure 1. In fact, among the various 3D games since Adventure 1, very few bothered to put him as a main playable character outside of the Sonic Boom games, where everybody is on equal standing protagonist-wise. And that's for the most part as is. And now everyone not named Sonic is generally treated as a secondary character, sometimes even less, with almost zero exceptions(Blaze was never treated as a secondary character specifically outside of technically Generations at best, where again, it was Sonic in full charge of everything). I haven't played Sonic Forces, so I don't remember who is all playable besides Sonic, Classic Sonic, and your OC, though. But I do know about the Shadow DLC. Which means he's still still being treated as important in some way too.

Basically, a good way to put it is that Shadow and Tails are both highly relevant and iconic, with little difference when it comes to "who is more important". They're just both notable characters on their own merits. So whoever gets in would probably be factors beyond their iconicness at this point. If any do, it could be stuff like which moveset seems more fun, who Sega is more interested in pushing(it could be because of a new game whether either one is playable, for instance), or factors we might not even see.

---------------

As for the Castlevania thing, I think Alucard might be more known as an overall name in comparison due to existing beyond just this series alone. Hellsing, etc. So that might make the character a more feasible option to get sales in, due to being a bigger name. I'd like Simon more, but that's purely cause I want the whole Captain N team where possible in due to nostalgia. But that's not a good enough reason alone realistically. I also only played the older games, and like a whip-based moveset that the original could use. That said, ones like Trevor cover that well too. And I did see the Netflix Castlevania, so... but regardless, I think having a whip-based moveset would be ideal. Another thing is they could do alts or costumes at least based upon the various Belmonts/protagonists.

 

[Deleted member]

ok, ignoring this "moveset potential" part, since i believe the smash team is able to make a good moveset for literally any character, why would Shadow join the roster instead of Tails or Knuckles? Honesty question here

Being literally the second most popular character in the franchise after Sonic himself helps a lot.

That being said, if it mattered which one of them had a more significant impact on gaming as a whole, then Knuckles would win full-stop and for more than just because of the Ugandan Knuckles memes.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Shadow is actually highly popular and one of the major protagonists in the 3D era. Things have changed where he isn't a big deal to the same degree anymore, but his popularity got him returned after Adventure 2, was able to get him his own game, and he, Sonic, and a new Hedgehog became the main protagonists of one of the next Gen games(the game has its issues, but it does make sense of how popular he is and why he was pushed so much).

Tails is still amazing in his own right, obviously, but he rarely is treated on the same level of "major character" in the same way as Shadow was at that time. He's still pretty much a secondary character in the 3D era after Adventure 1. In fact, among the various 3D games since Adventure 1, very few bothered to put him as a main playable character outside of the Sonic Boom games, where everybody is on equal standing protagonist-wise. And that's for the most part as is. And now everyone not named Sonic is generally treated as a secondary character, sometimes even less, with almost zero exceptions(Blaze was never treated as a secondary character specifically outside of technically Generations at best, where again, it was Sonic in full charge of everything). I haven't played Sonic Forces, so I don't remember who is all playable besides Sonic, Classic Sonic, and your OC, though. But I do know about the Shadow DLC. Which means he's still still being treated as important in some way too.

Basically, a good way to put it is that Shadow and Tails are both highly relevant and iconic, with little difference when it comes to "who is more important". They're just both notable characters on their own merits. So whoever gets in would probably be factors beyond their iconicness at this point. If any do, it could be stuff like which moveset seems more fun, who Sega is more interested in pushing(it could be because of a new game whether either one is playable, for instance), or factors we might not even see.

---------------

As for the Castlevania thing, I think Alucard might be more known as an overall name in comparison due to existing beyond just this series alone. Hellsing, etc. So that might make the character a more feasible option to get sales in, due to being a bigger name. I'd like Simon more, but that's purely cause I want the whole Captain N team where possible in due to nostalgia. But that's not a good enough reason alone realistically. I also only played the older games, and like a whip-based moveset that the original could use. That said, ones like Trevor cover that well too. And I did see the Netflix Castlevania, so... but regardless, I think having a whip-based moveset would be ideal. Another thing is they could do alts or costumes at least based upon the various Belmonts/protagonists.

You always say things better than anyone else could have.

 

[Bowserlick]

After watching the animated Castlevania (which was excellent) I really want Trevor Belmont in Smash with the ability to get drunk in order to ignore hitstun, at the cost of slower rolls, dodges and jumps.

But sadly Nintendo won't go for that. I would place the odds much better on a Belmont than Alucard if a Castlevania rep.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Just give Sonic a Shadow costume and a few custom moves.

 

[Deleted member]

Just give Sonic a Shadow costume and a few custom moves.

......

You can't be serious.

 

[Megadoomer]

Symphony of the Night wasn't on a Nintendo system. Anyway, if a Castlevania rep isn't going to use some form of whip, what's the point?

Wasn't Alucard also in Castlevania 3? Besides, Cloud made it in with nothing but cameos, though there's a huge gap between the two in terms of how well-known they are.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Just give Sonic a Shadow costume and a few custom moves.

I don't think you understand how costumes work in Super Smash Bros. The whole reason Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit are separate instead of costumes is because of their inevitable differences.

Shadow as a costume of Sonic is literally impossible.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Simon Belmont is usually the Castlevania rep when Konami does silly little crossovers (thanks to Super Bomberman R that sentence is present tense) so there's that precedent to stand on. Plus, as the Belmont with the least defining characteristics (outside of the GB protags), Simon is free to mix and match all sorts of Belmont tropes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just give Sonic a Shadow costume and a few custom moves.

Considering that Dark Pit is treated as a separate fighter, I'm quite certain that Shadow would be treated as a separate character as well, assuming that he does somehow make the playable cut.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Wasn't Alucard also in Castlevania 3? Besides, Cloud made it in with nothing but cameos, though there's a huge gap between the two in terms of how well-known they are.

It probably makes a difference, so it's relevant. I didn't say there's some kind of rule.

I don't think you understand how costumes work in Super Smash Bros. The whole reason Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit are separate instead of costumes is because of their inevitable differences.

Shadow as a costume of Sonic is literally impossible.

Considering that Dark Pit is treated as a separate fighter, I'm quite certain that Shadow would be treated as a separate character as well, assuming that he does somehow make the playable cut.

These are arguments for Sakurai's way of doing things. Mine is different. I hope the next director's is as well.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

These are arguments for Sakurai's way of doing things. Mine is different. I hope the next director's is as well.

No director is gonna be delusional enough to think they can get away with that. Especially one that actually respects characters.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I don't know what you mean.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't know what you mean.

I don't understand how you can't.

In order to Shadow to work you'd have to

• Change his idle animation
• Change his running animation
• Change his ducking animation
• Change his taunts
• Change his victory animations
• Change his up special
• Change his side smash
• Change his neutral attack
• Change his aerial attacks

It just goes on in on. No director is dumb enough to think you can "just make Shadow a costume".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He means that because Shadow is severely popular as his own person, making him into a costume would get way too much backlash, thus, a Director wouldn't take that route.

Anyway, Shadow has very little in common with Sonic in Smash as is. While Sonic's special moves(Final Smash included) wouldn't feel odd, as it's something Shadow can do, the A moves are another story. Shadow does not punch, he karate chops. He also uses spinning kicks more than just straight jab-like kicks. He could easily do the spinning moves like the Down Smash, sure, but it's not really Shadow's style. He doesn't nearly as much curl into a ball for dealing damage and prefers to physically attack or use his chaos powers. He wouldn't work as a costume because it's too out of character. There would be hitbox issues that would make it impossible. The character models are also somewhat different, though not so different in couldn't work in that particular case. But the moveset doesn't, and that's where the issues lie.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He means that because Shadow is severely popular as his own person, making him into a costume would get way too much backlash, thus, a Director wouldn't take that route.

Actually I was more referring to the fact that the list of Sonic animations that wouldn't fit Shadow are endless and so making a costume would just be impossible. And stupid.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I didn't realize Shadow was that different. I was mainly going off of this:

More popular and requested, easier to make using Sonic as a basis, kind of like a Luigi Clone. Homing attack and spin dash as Netural and Down Special. Chaos Warp and Chaos Spear as Up and Side Special. Super Shadow as Final Smash.

 

[NintenRob]

On the topic of another Sega IP. I want to talk about Bayonetta since her games has released.

Mainly, I want to know how she will be treated in the next. Because she's in a weird position of being both a Nintendo IP and third party property.

I mean she's a Nintendo IP in the sense that Nintendo has invested in her helped make her games and are even pushing her like she's a Nintendo character. They partially funded the second and fully funded the third. They have the rights in what happen to the second and third instalments. They treat her like she's part of the Nintendo family

However in the end, the character is still owned by Sega. So she's still third party technically. But does this technicality matter in Smash? Will she be grouped with the other characters or grouped with third parties? Even her DLC in Smash got better treatment then Ryu and Cloud.

 

[Deleted member]

Eggman > Knuckles >> Tails >>> Shadow

I don't think you understand how costumes work in Super Smash Bros. The whole reason Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit are separate instead of costumes is because of their inevitable differences.

Shadow as a costume of Sonic is literally impossible.

No it's not.
They were seperated because the team had time to seperate them (and also because Doc was a Melee vet, Lucina was extremely popular, and because Sakurai wanted to use the Electroshock Arm for something, but I digress). If they didn't have time they would've remained alts.

 

[Luminario]

On the topic of another Sega IP. I want to talk about Bayonetta since her games has released.

Mainly, I want to know how she will be treated in the next. Because she's in a weird position of being both a Nintendo IP and third party property.

I mean she's a Nintendo IP in the sense that Nintendo has invested in her helped make her games and are even pushing her like she's a Nintendo character. They partially funded the second and fully funded the third. They have the rights in what happen to the second and third instalments. They treat her like she's part of the Nintendo family

However in the end, the character is still owned by Sega. So she's still third party technically. But does this technicality matter in Smash? Will she be grouped with the other characters or grouped with third parties? Even her DLC in Smash got better treatment then Ryu and Cloud.

If they do the roster the same as Smash 4 then I'd say she's most likely going to be grouped in with the other 3rd parties, seeing as she is technically one and I think that technicality matters enough. She could feasibly be put between the 1st and 3rd party characters if they wanted to reference what you're saying though. I'm hopeful this also means there's gonna be a ton of good Bayo content in the next game too, like multiple stages and items and ATs and such.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

No it's not.
They were seperated because the team had time to seperate them (and also because Doc was a Melee vet, Lucina was extremely popular, and because Sakurai wanted to use the Electroshock Arm for something, but I digress). If they didn't have time they would've remained alts.

Actually it was because Sakurai didn't feel it was fitting for Dark Pit to use the Three Sacred Treasures as his Final Smash.

Regardless you are right on their reason for being clones in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually it was because Sakurai didn't feel it was fitting for Dark Pit to use the Three Sacred Treasures as his Final Smash.

Regardless you are right on their reason for being clones in the first place.

I believe it was both. That's what I remember reading.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I believe it was both. That's what I remember reading.

Yeah, his team suggested an alternate Side B that could be used, which helped with making Dark Pit unique. The other factors still apply, of course.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, just in case someone gets the wrong idea, I wasn't suggesting that the clones should revert to alts. I was merely correcting Jinjo.
I still stand by my belief that reverting them into alts is extremely spiteful to their fans (I don't even care for them myself) and that it's better to just cut them altogether if they're not going to have their own slots.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Also, just in case someone gets the wrong idea, I wasn't suggesting that the clones should revert to alts. I was merely correcting Jinjo.
I still stand by my belief that reverting them into alts is extremely spiteful to their fans (I don't even care for them myself) and that it's better to just cut them altogether if they're not going to have their own slots.

I honestly doubt they're gonna revert to alts in Smash 5, because I cannot feasibly see them say "Hey, let's make into clones in Smash 4 but not Smash 5." Even if there isn't enough development time for the initial roster, DLC is always an option.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly doubt they're gonna revert to alts in Smash 5, because I cannot feasibly see them say "Hey, let's make into clones in Smash 4 but not Smash 5." Even if there isn't enough development time for the initial roster, DLC is always an option.

I doubt it as well, especially given the reasons Sakurai provided for Dr. Mario's seperation.
That said, I don't think they'd be DLC if they were were cut, at least not without a few changes.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

And now the real fun begins with this first Kirby poll. Your picks are between Bandana Dee, Galacta Knight, Adeleine, and Magolor.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Dee's arguably got this easily.

Oh well it looks like I missed something yesterday...

I'm sad about how many people dislike Adeleine in the smash fandom, looks like she's kinda popular elsewere for some reason, especially recently that they're teasing the character with the Artist ability and other promotional stuff (HAL basically said that Adeleine is the one who is drawing the artworks in the 25° anniversary twitter XD), she's getting more love than usual from most of the Kirby fandom, with fan-arts and stuff...

Anyway, about Kirby newcomers, while I'm one of the biggest Adeleine supporters, I also have other preferences, and they are basically (in order):

Dark Matter, Daroach, Chef Kawasaki and Galacta Knight.

About Dark Matter, I mean Dark Matter Blade obviously, I think he may be a bit of a Ridley, because he's a floating character with no hands and stuff, but the history of Smash already seen some characters with similar problems gettin in the roster reguardless, so everything is possible... about Adeleine and Dark Matter, it all depends on if Sakurai wants to consider games outside Dreamland 1, Superstar, Adventure and Air Ride (especially since it appears that he is not a big fan of Shinichi Shimomura's games AKA the Dark Matter Trilogy, and he may exclude those characters just for personal preferences).

Daroach is a cool character, I always liked him, though I feel like he's getting less and less relevant with the time... I mean, he got several cameos and references, but I think he's still treated as a minor character in some way, and the same can be said about Magolor, with all the new characters introduced in recent games, he just seems to fade in the background as just one of the many.

Chef Kawasaki is a favorite of mine. He's just a miniboss, though he has enough personality and iconicity that I consider him to be Smash material... though, apparently there is something against him, it looks like he's been declassed.

Spoiler: Star Allies possible spoiler

It appears that Chef Kawasaki has been declassed from unique character as generic character with multiple instances, you can have multiple Chef Kawasakis in your party in Kirby Star Allies... this may be meaningless, since the same happens with Chuchu-Nago-Pitch if you have 3 Cleaning helpers, and not like multiple instances characters can't be in Smash, as Yoshi confirms... it's just that I think this may hurt his overall relevance in the franchise in a way.

But Sakurai's Bias(TM) has no limits, and being a Kirby Superstar character he may get in anyway.

Galacta Knight is just cool... I usually dislike clones and semiclones, but I feel like Galacta may work, because he has the potential to be a lot different.
He uses a lance, that compared to Metaknight's sword is a bit different in shape and use, for example, MK does several very fast slashes, while Galacta may do a single hit, slower but more powerful... also the lance is longer, the shape of the hitbox is also different.
Then, what hypes me the most about this character is that differently from Meta, he has a shield, so he may get one of those Link-like mechanics that if you crouch you are safe from attacks that hit the shield first.
And many other little things that set Galacta apart from Metaknight... I think he deserves a spot as late game unlockable, a secret character is a fitting role for him since he has always been a secret boss.

Unlike most people on there, I have absolutely no interest in the dee though.