Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bowserlick]

I think you're really reaching on the Ike comparisons. Especially since Dancing Blade couldn't be further away from Quick Draw. The former is a speedy combo attack that offers mixup potential due to the different sub-attacks Marth can perform during it, while Quick Draw is a chargeable horizontal recovery move and a burst attack for a normally slow and bulky fighter.
And that's not even getting into the fact that Ike's Aether animation comes directly from Path of Radiance.

It seriously looks like you're reaching in an attempt to support your own argument, which is especially true if you consider "both of their neutral specials are chargeable" to be a valid comparison.

What does Ike add that really showcases something from FE not already in place in Smash? Robin adds two things: a weapon mechanic and magic (which transforms his specials into something incredibly different from the other fighters). Robin makes the game look more interesting and diverse to Smash players that have yet to play FE games.

* B is a sword attack that gains in power from a charge. Marth/Roy hit to the side and Ike hits more vertically. Not even close to a reach.

 

[Cosmic77]

Since we're on the topic, I really hope the next FE character has a few moves and specials that don't involve a sword, like the ones Robin and Corrin have. Seems like such a waste to skip the magic and transformations entirely and just make another character who swings his sword differently.

Let's hope I didn't just jinx us getting a fourth Marth.

 

[Deleted member]

Really hoping one of the main characters in Fire Emblem Switch is an axe user. We don't have an axe user in Smash.

 

[Opossum]

What does Ike add that really showcases something from FE not already in place in Smash? Robin adds two things: a weapon mechanic and magic (which transforms his specials into something incredibly different from the other fighters). Robin makes the game look more interesting and diverse to players of Smash that have yet to play FE games.

That has nothing to do with my point though.

* B is a sword attack that gains in power from a charge. Marth/Roy hit to the side and Ike hits more vertically. Not even close to a reach.

By that logic Palutena and Mario are alike due to both having a neutral special which shoots out orb-shaped protectiles...

Since we're on the topic, I really hope the next FE character has a few moves and specials that don't involve a sword, like the ones Robin and Corrin have. Seems like such a waste to skip the magic and transformations entirely and just make another character who swings his sword differently.

Let's hope I didn't just jinx us getting a fourth Marth.

It all really depends on what the main character of FE16 does. As much as I'd love to see folks like Chrom, Caeda, and Celica, they'll probably end up taking the backseat to the new guys, as is tradition.

 

[Bowserlick]

That has nothing to do with my point though.


By that logic Palutena and Mario are alike due to both having a neutral special which shoots out orb-shaped protectiles...


It all really depends on what the main character of FE16 does. As much as I'd love to see folks like Chrom, Caeda, and Celica, they'll probably end up taking the backseat to the new guys, as is tradition.

Well, that was my point. Robin broke the mold that FE seemed to have set in stone. I like Ike. He didn't add much to Fire Emblem except for a strength character. Your Palutena and Mario example doesn't work. I am talking about diversity in a franchise.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, that was my point. Robin broke the mold that FE seemed to have set in stone. I like Ike. He didn't add much to Fire Emblem except for a strength character. Your Palutena and Mario example doesn't work. I am talking about diversity in a franchise.

Lucario confirmed to be a Mewtwo clone.

 

[Krysco]

I'd say Ike could've had something unique to himself from FE put into Smash with the sword beams but Link and Meta Knight can do that too. Plus Kirby and his up special. Ike can use axes by the way. Makes one of the final bosses in RD a joke and in Codename Steam, he uses his fathers axe Urvan. Sakurai decided to just make Ike a powerful swordsman with some fire moves that weren't even the proper colour in Brawl.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Really hoping one of the main characters in Fire Emblem Switch is an axe user. We don't have an axe user in Smash.

I don't really care what the character wields. I just want a character that I like.

People like to ***** about clones, or purposefully bad characters like Pichu. I don't mind that stuff at all. I like being able to play as a baby version of Pikachu. I care less about what the character does and more about who they are. Not saying I want the characters to at least be interesting.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Ike ought to be changed to better match canon. Let someone else be the bruiser. *cough* Hector *cough*

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ike ought to be changed to better match canon. Let someone else be the bruiser. *cough* Hector *cough*

What would be more canon?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Not being slow, for one.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, Tharja would be a good choice to add as she is completely different from the Fire Emblem cast, but the game would easily become Teen. Her clothing is even more provocative than ZSS's clothing. Celica would be another diverse character to add, as she also has some dark powers and other stuff as Opossum mentioned. There are so many other FE characters that could be added, but people would complain about the "clone" topic.

Smash 4's fan-base is getting worse because of the Bayonetta problem ever since during Frostbite 2018.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't really care what the character wields. I just want a character that I like.

People like to ***** about clones, or purposefully bad characters like Pichu. I don't mind that stuff at all. I like being able to play as a baby version of Pikachu. I care less about what the character does and more about who they are. Not saying I want the characters to at least be interesting.

Honestly, if a heavily requested character like King K. Rool were to get added only to become a full clone of DK, I'd prefer him to be left out and take my chances on K. Rool being added in the next Smash with a unique moveset. There are some characters that really don't deserve to be clones of any kind, like Ganondorf. I'd be willing to wait another six or seven years to see my character in Smash instead of having it's chances of getting a decent moveset permanently ruined.

 

[Deleted member]

It's rather sketchy, since the only time you'll see Andross's whole body is in Star Fox Zero's Sound Test menu. He may make the cut as an Assist Trophy or Adventure mode boss, but playable representation probably isn't too likely.

And even then, it isn't really a "body".

It's just a cloak with cables and wires that hang down.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When it comes to Ike, it's his Side B that is extremely different. That feels like a reach. All three Neutral B's are chargeable sword attacks, and Ike's is very similar to the idea of Roy's in Melee, just with different animations. There's still obvious differences, but it's clearly a similar idea. Ike's Up B has the similar idea of a rising move, though it keeps it different with being more or less similar to Kirby's Up B instead. It's kind of like comparing Wolf and Fox's Lasers, if you will. Similar ideas, extremely different applications. Down B's are obviously alike(albeit I think they might have some different properties, but I forget).

Ike didn't really break the mold so much as feel like a de-cloned Roy, not to say he feels very similar to Roy either. But you can still see some similarities, especially their Neutral B's(chargeable flame sword attack that hurts themselves? This is clearly a similar concept). His actual A moves are extremely different, but so are Wolf's. Ike doesn't feel extremely different from what Wolf was, but it's not like this is a bad thing anyway. Ike used similar B moves(Side B aside) to the other two FE characters. Not a big deal, you know? Why would it be? The moveset works. The heavy differences among the moves overall more than separate them.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

if a heavily requested character like King K. Rool were to get added only to become a full clone of DK

Whoa! WHAT?!

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Honestly, if a heavily requested character like King K. Rool were to get added only to become a full clone of DK, I'd prefer him to be left out and take my chances on K. Rool being added in the next Smash with a unique moveset. There are some characters that really don't deserve to be clones of any kind, like Ganondorf. I'd be willing to wait another six or seven years to see my character in Smash instead of having it's chances of getting a decent moveset permanently ruined.

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree, but the thing with the K. Rool example is that both you and me know that's never happening.

 

[Cosmic77]

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree, but the thing with the K. Rool example is that both you and me know that's never happening.

I know. Just using a popular character most people support as an example. I think it's safe to say that K. Rool being a clone of any kind wouldn't set well with anyone here. At least that's what my mindset was when I made that post.

 

[Bowserlick]

Lucario confirmed to be a Mewtwo clone.

You easily miss the point. There is little diversity into the Starfox franchise in terms of specials. There is a pattern there that has not been broken. Pokemon has diverse specials. Fire Emblem broke its mold with Robin. Starfox would benefit by having a fighter that goes in a different direction.

 

[NintenRob]

Andross is interesting, not many people consider. Yet he is the main antagonist of the franchise. One could probably make the comparison to Ridley if you wanted to.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

One could probably make the comparison to Ridley if you wanted to.

Like I said before. It's arguable that he wouldn't be Andross anymore if he was in humanoid form.

 

[Krysco]

So canon Ike was brought up earlier and since I take any chance I can to not stfu about RD, here's some results you'd get from a 'canon' Ike:
- Sword beams. Take the PoR route and it'd be on every move aside from jab 1 and 2, take the RD route and it'd be on any move where the sword hits the ground (so jab 3, fsmash, usmash and perhaps dsmash and landing aerials).
- Aether would ignore shields (so think similar to Meta Knight's custom down special or Little Mac's custom side special) and it'd heal him for the amount of damage he did and while my memory on PoR Ike isn't the greatest, iirc Aether in that game was first an upward slash and then the throwing sword in the air and landing with it bit. RD did the opposite unless I'm totally wrong on PoR Aether but in RD, he throws the sword up and lands with it and then does an upward slash afterwards to get back to where he was.
- Speed increase is hit or miss. On the one hand, his PoR growth rate for speed is 55% chance per level up while on the other, in RD, it's just 35% chance per level up. Regardless, Ike usually caps speed at 28 in PoR and 37 in RD which is pretty fast (highest Beorc speed in RD is 40). There's also the fact that his movement is 7 at all times except for his Ranger class in PoR with 7 being the middle of movement in the Tellius games. Best being 10 from Tibarn and worst being 5 from first tier armored units, black dragons and other dragon laguz in human form.
- Could also argue for a weight buff if you don't think Ike's heavy enough or a better shield since just wielding Ragnell gives Ike +5 defense.
- Ability to use Axes, namely Urvan which is his father's axe and is given to him right before the endgame of RD by the Lion King Caineghis.
- The only skills Ike is downright given by the games are Shove, Nihil and Aether which is already in Smash. Could add some tackle move, especially since shoving is largely a Tellius thing (only Warriors get it in Awakening/Fates iirc) granted shoving in FE doesn't do damage. Nihil just negates an opponents skills so take that however you will in a Smash context.
- I would argue better dodges since Ike has the Earth affinity which purely boosts evasion but that only kicks in when Ike is near someone he has a support with.

Now you see why my title is The FERD Nerd

Also, to poke fun at the Lucario is a Mewtwo clone thing, both have command grab side specials and directional recovery up specials.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Knowing our luck, here's how things may go down on the Star Fox front.

Sakurai: You asked for Star Fox character with unique moveset, have Slippy. Never ask me for anything ever again.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Knowing our luck, here's how things may go down on the Star Fox front.

Sakurai: You asked for Star Fox character with unique moveset, have Slippy. Never ask me for anything ever again.

Slippy?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Knowing our luck, here's how things may go down on the Star Fox front.

Sakurai: You asked for Star Fox character with unique moveset, have Slippy. Never ask me for anything ever again.

I'm surprised this isn't an actual proper meme(that you could give a caption of). Mind you, I work with a meme generator site, so...

Anyway, Slippy does have tons of unique potential, especially thanks to Star Fox Guard. But many do as is. He'd be interesting. If he were to be added, hopefully he has one of his taunts as "Fox, get this guy offa me!"

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I don't really see Star Fox getting any more than the three characters it has. MAYBE Krystal, but at this point, even Wolf is kinda stretching it.

I don't think Andross has a snowball's chance in hell.

 

[Luminario]

I still think that complaints about the FE characters in Smash could have been reduced if everyone wasn't so sword heavy, though this is partly due to how the current fighters are represented in their own FE games. Both Robin and Corrin could have easily gone down the pure tome/dragonstone route instead, but Corrin less so due to how big the Yato is in Fates' story.

I'm still just salty about Robin using a sword. I just want a pure tome user.

Also, I'll only accept Andross if he's a floating head and hands and nothing more. No robe or anything, just a big ass head for a hitbox. Krystal's potential is clear but she's been MIA for a decade and Slippy isn't exactly the most popular character even though his moveset could be technical and filled with all sorts of gadgets and gizmos, and Starfox really isn't in the best place for anyone other than Wolf returning at the moment, so I'm really not expecting anything from the series in the next Smash unless a new game is dropping soon.

 

[Bowserlick]

I don't really see Star Fox getting any more than the three characters it has. MAYBE Krystal, but at this point, even Wolf is kinda stretching it.

I don't think Andross has a snowball's chance in hell.

If you go by the Dante's Inferno interpretation the 9th circle of hell is full of ice.

Andross has a low chance, but I bet the same criticisms of Wii Fit Trainer would have been made if anyone dared to suggest that character. Duck Hunt also had many naysayers.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Late, but it was Valentine's Day. It's too important to miss.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Anyways, the winner was Rundas, showing that his fandom had never died. He was too cool to forget. Meanwhile, Mother Brain managed to outdo Anthony Higgs, with Weavel as the weakest link.

And now I will do Kirby tomorrow, starting with the four most wanted newcomers. From a certain spear wielding Dee to the strongest warrior in the galaxy.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm surprised this isn't an actual proper meme(that you could give a caption of). Mind you, I work with a meme generator site, so...

Anyway, Slippy does have tons of unique potential, especially thanks to Star Fox Guard. But many do as is. He'd be interesting. If he were to be added, hopefully he has one of his taunts as "Fox, get this guy offa me!"

Only thanks to Star Fox Guard. He's no different than Fox or Falco. I don't know why he'd be added.

Also, I know this an aside, but why the **** do people think Slippy is so annoying? He's on the list for me of inexplicably hated characters like Navi and Baby Mario that people pretend are irritating because everyone else is doing it.

 

[Arcadenik]

SNK has been in and out of the spotlight in games, but a good streak has been happening with classic re-releases and Geese Howard in Tekken 7. King of Fighters (and by extension the universes the franchise combined) is the biggest franchise. From this company, we could get Terry Bogard, Kyo Kusanagi, Mai Shiranui, and maybe Geese Howard.

I’m so glad you brought up SNK. I have been playing a lot of Neo Geo fighting games on the original Wii via Virtual Console lately.

I think Terry Bogard from the Fatal Fury series would be a fine choice. Mai Shiranui could be an Assist Trophy. A match between Andy Bogard and Joe Higashi could cause stage hazards. Geese Howard could be a stage boss.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

With Mai though, part of me expects her design to be altered to be Smash friendly. Even if she appears as an Assist Trophy.

But Terry is the best SNK husbando, therefore he would be a great fighter. Love the SNK fighters, cheap bosses aside.

 

[Latte]

Honestly all I want for the next Smash as far as the roster goes is more magic-users from the FE series..Hell, I'd even settle for an archer character since I feel it could be an interesting premise for a moveset. Additionally, FE's archer characters tend to have my favorite designs.

Now that I think about it, as long as it's not another sword user I'd be happy with pretty much any FE addition.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Honestly all I want for the next Smash as far as the roster goes is more magic-users from the FE series..Hell, I'd even settle for an archer character since I feel it could be an interesting premise for a moveset. Additionally, FE's archer characters tend to have my favorite designs.

Now that I think about it, as long as it's not another sword user I'd be happy with pretty much any FE addition.

Rex & Pyra is one of my top hopes. But, I'd like to see Alm & Celicia because I like that brotherly/sisterly relationship.

These characters could definitely work by having the partner (Pyra/Celicia) near the character at all times, but slightly in the background (almost like Pokemon Trainer). They are unaffected by opponents for the most part, but essential to helping Rex/Alm perform attacks.

I don't really see Star Fox getting any more than the three characters it has. MAYBE Krystal, but at this point, even Wolf is kinda stretching it.

I don't think Andross has a snowball's chance in hell.

So after Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Star Fox Zero...
KRYSTAL likely. Wolf and Andross unlikely.
Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

KRYSTAL likely. Wolf and Andross unlikely.
Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

I was implying that Krystal was less likely than Wolf, while also saying I didn't find Wolf returning very likely either.

In essence Fox and Falco are the only Star Fox characters I'm confident in making it to Smash 5.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I was implying that Krystal was less likely than Wolf, while also saying I didn't find Wolf returning very likely either.

Sorry for being sarcastic, but I get kinda salty when I see people liking up a post I find patently and unbelievably absurd.

Andross is just overall more likely than Krystal. I mean we're talking about a character (Krystal) that was never a good idea for an addition back in Brawl and now she's completely irrelevant to Star Fox.

If Krystal even had an original move set, it would basically just turn her into a Star Fox Adventures character. Not something I see being big with Nintendo fans and making her a horrible Star Fox rep.

If we're looking at Andross based on the character he is, He's infinitely more likely than her. But, I can see your leniance towards him as a fighter concept.

I think he can work very well in his humanoid form and still retain all of his signature abilities and attributes. But, I too think he struggles the same way Ridley does in terms of deviating too far from what he's known to be.

I was pretty mad because just the idea of Krystal alone is absurd to me. Let alone compared to ANDROSS. But, then again she's more requested, she's got that one down. It's literally the only thing she has going for her.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If we're throwing any likeliness out the window and going off pure personal opinions, my ideal fourth Star Fox character would be Leon Powalski. I overall just like his character and appearance (I like my reptiles), and I'd like to imagine there's some moveset potential for him, beyond being a fourth Fox loolalike.

Doubt it's gonna happen ever, but hey, a man can dream, right?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If we're throwing any likeliness out the window and going off pure personal opinions, my ideal fourth Star Fox character would be Leon Powalski. I overall just like his character and appearance (I like my reptiles), and I'd like to imagine there's some moveset potential for him, beyond being a fourth Fox loolalike.

Doubt it's gonna happen ever, but hey, a man can dream, right?

Well, he's a chameleon?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Well, he's a chameleon?

Only Star Fox game I played is Star Fox 64; I don't know if he uses any chameleon-like abilities in his other appearances. Then again, it's not a stretch to say that he could just be given some of these abilities should he appear in Smash - that's happened a few times if memory serves.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Only Star Fox game I played is Star Fox 64; I don't know if he uses any chameleon-like abilities in his other appearances. Then again, it's not a stretch to say that he could just be given some of these abilities should he appear in Smash - that's happened a few times if memory serves.

No he doesn't. But, being a stealthy assassin that camouflages would be very fitting. But, this is getting too far. We're talking about Leon Powalski.