Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kuon]

Disney is a giant multimedia company. Hypothetically, Scorpion getting in wouldn't be a gateway for Bugs Bunny despite both being owned by Warner Bros., and Steve getting in wouldn't be a boon for Clippy simply due to being owned by Microsoft.

Just use the stuff from Kingdom Hearts itself, or if anything else from Disney comes with it, use their Kingdom Hearts variations exclusively.

So use Sora without using any Disney characters? I guess they could, but based on Sakurai's decisions in the past for characters, I don't see him wanting Sora in it

 

[Deleted member]

*looks up a list of Fighting Game archetypes*

Okay, there's...

1. All-Rounder
2. Rushdown
3. Mix-up
4. Dominating
5. Trap Fighter
6. Puppet Fighter
7. Tag Team
8. Grappler
9. Semi-Grappler
10. Stance Fighter
11. Power-Up Fighter
12. Ammo Fighter

Well, some of these are obvious. XD

Puppet Fighter should just be renamed to Stand Fighter tbh

Disney is a giant multimedia company. Hypothetically, Scorpion getting in wouldn't be a gateway for Bugs Bunny despite both being owned by Warner Bros., and Steve getting in wouldn't be a boon for Clippy simply due to being owned by Microsoft.

Just use the stuff from Kingdom Hearts itself, or if anything else from Disney comes with it, use their Kingdom Hearts variations exclusively.

Smash constantly references non-gaming stuff if it's related to a character that did come from a game.
See: Cloud's costume, Ridley and his manga incarnation, all the Pokemon anime references, etc.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Loz is full of **** tho

Meh, I'm only going to say this once but there is literally 0 reason discredit Loz over mentioning Isaac and Skull Kid. He's repeatedly stated he's only ever had info on 2 other characters after leaking K. Rool. He's only ever mentioned those 2 characters. He has not baited the leak, he has not added to the leak. He has not gone off the deep end. He still talks to people on discord. If you need proof I'll give it to you, but that's all I can do about that. If you want to read more on the matter, just check my previous posts made in the Isaac thread.

Call him full of **** but I actually believe him over Vergeben, who has constantly given out new and random information in gamefaqs threads conveniently when people clamor for it (which, unsurprisingly, has kept him relevant all this time). That's not to say I don't believe Verg, I just think it's unfair to bash Loz who hasn't really done anything wrong except get bandwagon hate for nuking his 12 year old gamefaqs account and deleting twitter posts, when Verg has way more to discredit himself over other misinformation he's had on 3+ games now (which is yes, based on his sources)

 

[KMDP]

I get, like... 2/3 of these.

All-Rounder - Self-explanatory, does everything well
Rushdown - Get in hard and fast
Mixup - Need to be close like Rushdown, but rely on mindgames rather than power
Dominating - Like All-Rounder, just better. Usually Final Boss characters.
Trap Fighter -
Puppet Fighter -
Tag Team -
Grappler - Has a lot of Command Grabs, it is the bulk of their fighting style; a rare archetype
Semi-Grappler - Combines Grappler with any other archetype, obviously they have less command grabs than a Grappler, but more than normal.
Stance Fighter - Has more than one fighting style that they can change at will.
Power-Up Fighter - Self-explanatory
Ammo Fighter - :ultrobin

 

[Opossum]

Azura (FE)
.

Not sure that'd really work. Azura uses a lance, not a staff.

 

[praline]

All-Rounder - Self-explanatory, does everything well
Rushdown - Get in hard and fast
Mixup - Need to be close like Rushdown, but rely on mindgames rather than power
Dominating - Like All-Rounder, just better. Usually Final Boss characters.
Trap Fighter -
Puppet Fighter -
Tag Team -
Grappler - Has a lot of Command Grabs, it is the bulk of their fighting style; a rare archetype
Semi-Grappler - Combines Grappler with any other archetype, obviously they have less command grabs than a Grappler, but more than normal.
Stance Fighter - Has more than one fighting style that they can change at will.
Power-Up Fighter - Self-explanatory
Ammo Fighter - :ultrobin

What is a command grab?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

There's also the artist (that works for square?) that removed his Geno art description (about him being a hot topic there) after posting it. It was posted around the same time Smash ultimate had made its first proposal (Dec 2015)

Didn't know about that.

But even without it, I have the feeling Geno is a lock, which is still a shocking thing to say after a decade of him being nothing more than a pipe dream.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What is a command grab?

Bowser Side B, Ganon Side B, Kirby Neutral B, special attacks used with 'commands' that can't be blocked because they 'grab' you

 

[Opossum]

What is a command grab?

A miserable little pile of inputs. But enough talk, have at you!

 

[KMDP]

What is a command grab?

A Command Grab is a grab move that requires a Special Move input rather than the normal "Grab" input.

Basically, Bowser's Side B is a Command Grab.
'd by Cutie Gwen . Dang.

 

[praline]

Bowser Side B, Ganon Side B, Kirby Neutral B, special attacks used with 'commands' that can't be blocked because they 'grab' you

A Command Grab is a grab move that requires a Special Move input rather than the normal "Grab" input.

Basically, Bowser's Side B is a Command Grab.
'd by Cutie Gwen . Dang.

Oh cool.

A miserable little pile of inputs. But enough talk, have at you!

Somehow I saw this coming, and I was not disappointed. lol

 

[Sharkarat]

What is a command grab?

Grabs not on the standard grab input.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh cool.


Somehow I saw this coming, and I was not disappointed. lol

I mean, it's better than the time you asked what a buck is

 

[domriver]

I don't really like Incineroar, but I'd just be happy to get the Pokémon out of the way, it's such a tired subject of discussion.

So true. Its so obvious that we will get a newcomer that it isnt really worth chatting about. Just see who it is and move on!

 

[Pakky]

I mean, it's better than the time you asked what a buck is

A buck can be a lot of things though

-A male Deer

-A dollar

- To throw someone with the force of a horned headbutt

- A name

- The state of one's teeth

- A substitute for a popular swear word

 

[KMDP]

Here's a question (One I asked a while ago, but was ignored because I think I asked when the discussion was going a mile a minute and it was swept away in the current of conversation): Do any of you have a specific reaction in mind (say, a video or gif) for when a certain character gets revealed?

Like, you plan to show [x] video if [y] character is revealed.

 

[praline]

I mean, it's better than the time you asked what a buck is

I don’t remember this lol

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I don't want Sora, he just never interested me, but you're pretty dumb if you can't make a moveset for him without Disney references.

 

[Deleted member]

If, by some horrific miracle, every generation of Pokemon received a fighter in Smash, echo or not, who would be the best your favorite, perhaps not most likely, picks?

personally,
Kanto: Meowth
Johto: Celebi (Maybe Togepi)
Hoenn: Gardevoir
Sinnoh: Darkrai
Unova: Samurott
Kalos: Hawlucha
Alola: Buzzwole

Every generation, huh? I would really dont want to add to the first since Gen 1 has, what, 4 guys now? But nonetheless, here's who I'd go with:

Gen 1: Primeape
Gen 2: Ampharos
Gen 3: Gardevoir
Gen 4: Garchomp
Gen 5: Gothitelle
Gen 6: Pangoro
Gen 7: Buzzwole/Pheramosa Duo (Down special switches between the two)
Gen 8: 3rd form Grass Starter as last of the DLC. Just as a fun guess/prediction

 

[Majora's Visage]

Meh, I'm only going to say this once but there is literally 0 reason discredit Loz over mentioning Isaac and Skull Kid. He's repeatedly stated he's only ever had info on 2 other characters after leaking K. Rool. He's only ever mentioned those 2 characters. He has not baited the leak, he has not added to the leak. He has not gone off the deep end. He still talks to people on discord. If you need proof I'll give it to you, but that's all I can do about that. If you want to read more on the matter, just check my previous posts made in the Isaac thread.

Call him full of **** but I actually believe him over Vergeben, who has constantly given out new and random information in gamefaqs threads conveniently when people clamor for it (which, unsurprisingly, has kept him relevant all this time). That's not to say I don't believe Verg, I just think it's unfair to bash Loz who hasn't really done anything wrong except get bandwagon hate for nuking his 12 year old gamefaqs account and deleting twitter posts, when Verg has way more to discredit himself over other misinformation he's had on 3+ games now (which is yes, based on his sources)

Well said.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Here's a question (One I asked a while ago, but was ignored because I think I asked when the discussion was going a mile a minute and it was swept away in the current of conversation): Do any of you have a specific reaction in mind (say, a video or gif) for when a certain character gets revealed?

Like, you plan to show [x] video if [y] character is revealed.

Not really off the top of my head - at least not to post.

If by some miracle Dovahkiin gets in, I'll watch that trailer on repeat - probably go back and rewatch the original Skyrim trailer a few times, and then listen to the entire soundtrack since I'd be so excited I wouldn't be able to concentrate on a thing for the next day and a half.

For Tails, I'd probably immediately try to find an emulator for Sonic 2 and replay that. I don't remember getting further than Aquatic Ruin, but I do remember fighting Robotnik there, and I know Casino Night, so I guess I did get past that.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I want either Smash 4 or SR ZSS. Ultimate looks like an awkward mishmash of the two.

Tails
Twili Midna
Urbosa (with some Marth moves)
Impa
Isabelle
Dixie
Chunky
Azura (FE)
Gardevoir (Pkmn)
and Boshi for @Zinith


1: Arcanine (Yeah, Meowth, but I really want Arcanine in some way even if it's just a Pokéball)
2: Lugia (Ecruteak City stage pls)
3: Gardevoir
4: ...Vespiquen? Or Gallade?
5: Bisharp
6: Pangoro (Tyrantrum Pokéball when?)
7: Buzzwole


Meh. I'm not really for him, but I'd be alright with it. We do have a lot of fire-based characters on the roster already.


I love the TP designs, especially that Zelda is a colder ruler. It was a really nice change from the typical 'sunshine and rainbows' princesses we see a lot of in Peach and the various Disney characters. TP was definitely my absolute favorite design for Zelda.

...WW? Can't really say I was a fan. OoT is ok - definitely makes him look like a roguish their. TP was an evil king. But best Ganondorf was undoubtedly Hyrule Warriors, which should be his new canon design.

This is why we need skins depicting alternative versions of characters.

 

[WallyPalmer]

Everybody, talk about this.

View attachment 160237

He's trying his best and I can only respect him for that!

So uhh. Who wants to see Persona representation in Smash Ultimate?

I've never been a fan of the Persona series tbh. From an outside perspective, it seems very vish-fulfilly for anime dudebros, and the romance options look kind of gross. I might try it out one day, and my opinion may change, but not unless they fix a few of my personal first.

You have to pad the roster out with 10 echoes. Name them.

Spheal
Octolings
Galacta Knight / Dark MK
Giygas
Urbosa
Impa
Shadow
Dixie
Ninten
Good ol Boshi

 

[Deleted member]

Meh, I'm only going to say this once but there is literally 0 reason discredit Loz over mentioning Isaac and Skull Kid. He's repeatedly stated he's only ever had info on 2 other characters after leaking K. Rool. He's only ever mentioned those 2 characters. He has not baited the leak, he has not added to the leak. He has not gone off the deep end. He still talks to people on discord. If you need proof I'll give it to you, but that's all I can do about that. If you want to read more on the matter, just check my previous posts made in the Isaac thread.

Call him full of **** but I actually believe him over Vergeben, who has constantly given out new and random information in gamefaqs threads conveniently when people clamor for it (which, unsurprisingly, has kept him relevant all this time). That's not to say I don't believe Verg, I just think it's unfair to bash Loz who hasn't really done anything wrong except get bandwagon hate for nuking his 12 year old gamefaqs account and deleting twitter posts, when Verg has way more to discredit himself over other misinformation he's had on 3+ games now (which is yes, based on his sources)

Yeah, adding onto your leak because you got new info after you got 100% correct info before is certainly suspicious but acting like a 12-year old who wants attentions and lies about stuff is not. Got it.

Here's a question (One I asked a while ago, but was ignored because I think I asked when the discussion was going a mile a minute and it was swept away in the current of conversation): Do any of you have a specific reaction in mind (say, a video or gif) for when a certain character gets revealed?

Like, you plan to show [x] video if [y] character is revealed.

If any of my favorites are revealed I'll just post the "Unfollow me now" tweet completely uncensored and then get warned for it.

 

[Garteam]

The things that makes grapplers so weird to discuss in Smash is the difference in Smash and Traditional fighting game mechanics. By the standards of traditional fighting games, every character in Smash would be a grappler, as they have multiple throws for different situations and their throws serve as more than just a means to bypass blocks. Of course, if everyone is a grappler than no one is a grappler, so then we start arguing about who is a grappler and who isn't by the standards of Smash.

 

[KMDP]

Not really off the top of my head - at least not to post.

If by some miracle Dovahkiin gets in, I'll watch that trailer on repeat - probably go back and rewatch the original Skyrim trailer a few times, and then listen to the entire soundtrack since I'd be so excited I wouldn't be able to concentrate on a thing for the next day and a half.

For Tails, I'd probably immediately try to find an emulator for Sonic 2 and replay that. I don't remember getting further than Aquatic Ruin, but I do remember fighting Robotnik there, and I know Casino Night, so I guess I did get past that.

There's a video I'm keeping in mind for when/if Banjo gets revealed.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of grapplers, while there are no chain grabbing characters in Smash 4, and were notorious for abusing their grab to get wicked combos.

Also for me it is good that you can mash out of Ganon's attacks even though from time to time I play him.

 

[P.Kat]

That is interesting, since Loz18 said that some characters are in to promote future games... I wonder if it means that one of those games is the fabled F-Zero sequel

I'm hoping one of those games is an Okami sequel (no not Okamiden).

Loz is full of **** tho

If it's for an Okami sequel I will believe... just this once.

So in terms of play styles, are there any fighting game archetypes we’re missing in smash? In smash 4 we had Rosalina and Luma were the puppet archetype, and Robin had an “ammo” mechanics with weapon durability.

So in terms of gameplay style what do you want to see with new move sets?

A Weapon/Stance change.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Yeah, adding onto your leak because you got new info after you got 100% correct info before is certainly suspicious but acting like a 12-year old who wants attentions and lies about stuff is not. Got it.

Except he didn't? His PMs about K. Rool, Skull Kid and a 3rd, unknown character (at the time) were all from BEFORE the August 8th direct. Before. Not after. They were made public after, but some are from over a month before the direct, even around e3.

Say it with me. Before.

The only thing he mentioned AFTER the direct was Isaac, which we can basically assume was the 3nd unknown character he already mentioned BEFORE the direct. He didn't mention Isaac immediately. He mentioned it once through a tweet that is now deleted because he stopped going by Loz18.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The things that makes grapplers so weird to discuss in Smash is the difference in Smash and Traditional fighting game mechanics. By the standards of traditional fighting games, every character in Smash would be a grappler, as they have multiple throws for different situations and their throws serve as more than just a means to bypass blocks. Of course, if everyone is a grappler than no one is a grappler, so then we start arguing about who is a grappler and who isn't by the standards of Smash.

Which I already game my opinion on in the Incineroar thread.

Aside from the obvious "he's gonna have command grabs", there's a few things that need to be considered for how a true grappler like Incineroar would work.

For starters, Incineroar's mobility would take a hit for the sake of balance. Not saying he'd be the slowest, just slow enough so that moving around the stage becomes a problem. Because if a grappler ends up as mobile as Diddy or Sheik, it's gonna be horribly unbalanced. Alternatively, his frame data would take the hit while his mobility gets to be decent due to movement mattering so much in a platform fighter. Either way, you can't use him as a rushdown.

Then, his combo game would be minimal. Some bread and butter stuff, maybe a few things that can be followed up by a grab to showcase that grapplers are all about grabs too? Though with a lower combo ability comes the ability to hit like a truck to compensate, especially the grabs. This, much like the above, is to avoid having a grappler used aggressively since this archetype is usually more about patience.

And also, the grabs themselves. Basically, Incineroar could have a few command grabs in his specials. He would probably lack a combo throw (and if he does have one, it's going to be a very basic "bread and butter" thing), but his throws, including the normal ones, would deal a good chunk of damage and knockback. They would likely be his most reliable kill moves and ways to rack up damage too since grabs are the best thing for a grappler.

tl;dr a grappler would likely have these things in Smash

• Either low mobility or poor frame data to avoid aggressive playstyles and encourage a more patient, bait-and-punish approach.
• Poor combo ability, but high damage output in general to once again discourage an aggressive playstyle.
• A set of powerful, highly-damaging throws and command grabs as his most reliable ways to rack up damage and get KOs.

Basically, this entire post is just me trying to say that people with a good combo game off of a grab doesn't mean they're "grapplers", which is a thing I legit heard in the past.

Regular grabs aren't exactly the same thing in platform fighters than they are in traditional fighters. They're more like combo starters on the former, which in itself is more suited to rushdowns.

 

[NintenZ]

Also for Persona Assist Trophies:

You bet your ass I’d want it (And actually expect it) to be Aigis.

She is one of the most popular and iconic characters from the series, getting her own spin-off prequel, an expansion where she was in the starring role (She also became a Wild Card weilder herself), and even became a sort of mascot of Persona 3 as of Dancing in Moonlight, it’s without a doubt that she is the Zero/Alucard of the Persona series.

While I don’t think she would be playable since Joker has simply made more of an impact with the release of Persona 5, I feel she is important and unique enough, to have a spot as an Assist Trophy.
also best girl

 

[Pakky]

Which I already game my opinion on in the Incineroar thread.

Low mobility WOULD make sense for it as its slow and bulky in the games.

 

[Sharkarat]

If, by some horrific miracle, every generation of Pokemon received a fighter in Smash, echo or not, who would be the best your favorite, perhaps not most likely, picks?

personally,
Kanto: Meowth
Johto: Celebi (Maybe Togepi)
Hoenn: Gardevoir
Sinnoh: Darkrai
Unova: Samurott
Kalos: Hawlucha
Alola: Buzzwole

Kanto: Meowth (doesn't really have any personal picks for this gen)
Johto: Remoraid. Who doesn't want to fight as a gun.
Hoenn: Mawile (Gardevoir is runner-up)
Sinnoh: Vespiquen. with Combee's as part of moveset
Unova: Golurk. Awesome Ghost Robot Potential
Kalos: Barbaracle (or Spritzee as Jigglypuff Echo)
Alola: Decidueye

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Low mobility WOULD make sense for it as its slow and bulky in the games.

But not too low due to Ultimate being a generally faster game.

Making him Brawl Ganon "fast" would do nothing but hurt him and make him generally unfun to anyone but dedicated mains in an environment like Ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd actually want to see a character that uses different Stances, not completely different fighters, just different properties in certain moves.
*Cough cough*

be thankful I'm not using the EO's Ronin as an example

Ok, but for real, Oricorio is my favorite of the Gen 7 Mons and it would be perfect to give Smash another Stance fighting style. The basic idea I have for its moveset was Down B as the Nectar(Baile would be the default, order would go Baile-->Pom-Pom-->Pa'u-->Sensu) and Neutral B as Revelation Dance which would change depending on the current form(Fire deals more damage and knockback, Electric is the fastest stuns, Psychic is the slowest and serves as a deflector too and Ghost passes through everything, including walls, and launches the opponent in the opposite direction).

Maybe I should make a thread for them alongside a moveset...

 

[Pakky]

But not too low due to Ultimate being a generally faster game.

Making him Brawl Ganon "fast" would do nothing but hurt him and make him generally unfun to anyone but dedicated mains in an environment like Ultimate.

I could see him having a DK gallop seeing as how he is a tiger man that's top heavy.

DK's speed might be a good fit actually.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Because being respectful to people living their own lives that don't have anything to do with your own SHOULD be black and white and universal.

As human beings we should be kind to one another.

I really shouldn't even have to say this.

Now because I'm not dragging this along since the moderators have stated they want to move on.

Everyone? You have to pad the roster out with 10 echoes. Name them.

10 echoes eh?

- Jeanne
- Impa
- Hilda
- Isabelle
- Shadow
- Panther
- Alvis
- Funky Kong
- Octolings
- Ken
- Black Knight
:ultrobin - Celica

I somehow went over but whatever

 

[Pakky]

I'd actually want to see a character that uses different Stances, not completely different fighters, just different properties in certain moves.

Well yaknow

 

[Over9000BPM]

Well yaknow

No thicc allowed in Ultimate.

 

[Pakky]

No thicc allowed in Ultimate.

Disagree.