Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[praline]

My question is, what audience is Smash directed at. Is it directed at kids? Is directed at teens? Why the E10 rating then?

Are you one of those people that think a game sucks if it’s not rated T or M?

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, they're all painfully generic. Incineroar, Skull Kid, Banjo, Issac, and Geno as uniques, while Ken, Shadow, Isabelle, and maybe the Black Knight are the echoes. Where's the flavor? Honestly I'm not all that keen on Blaziken's chances, but I have him on my roster just so there's something unique.

Back in Smash 4, anything not in Gematsu was considered unrealistic so all you'd see was Shulk, Chorus Kid and Chrom after E3. The Smash fanbase won't budge from what they consider likely until a Robin situation happens which I believe is extremely likely.
Though I do believe the Echoes will remain to be predictable since we have a base and limits to work with(in this case, which characters work or not as clones of others)

 

[Luigi The President]

HOT TAKE: SHADOW IS IN!!!!!11!!!1!11!!!! HERE'S WHY (part 1/12)

Only darkness and pain, the anger and pain

Yeah, they're all painfully generic. Incineroar, Skull Kid, Banjo, Issac, and Geno as uniques, while Ken, Shadow, Isabelle, and maybe the Black Knight are the echoes. Where's the flavor? Honestly I'm not all that keen on Blaziken's chances, but I have him on my roster just so there's something unique.

PAPER MARIO WOULD BE THE FLAVOR AUGHHHH. I can't stand this much longer! 3 months of this nonsense to go where Banjo is suddenly more likely then Paper Mario according to these rosters.

 

[spoilerowl]

The aim is probably to have as large an audience as possible. The E10 rating is so that the large amount of parents with kids under that age limit buy the game. There's not really anything needed in the game which would require a T rating, except a Tharja trophy. In terms of what they're doing with the roster and catering to competitive, they're definitely catering to the older and/or competitive audiences as well.

Yeah, they're all painfully generic. Incineroar, Skull Kid, Banjo, Issac, and Geno as uniques, while Ken, Shadow, Isabelle, and maybe the Black Knight are the echoes. Where's the flavor? Honestly I'm not all that keen on Blaziken's chances, but I have him on my roster just so there's something unique.

The fact that Banjo, Isaac, and Geno as candidates can be considered "generic" and "flavorless" speaks volumes about how spoiled we've been getting with Ultimate so far. In the Brawl or even the Smash 4 days, these three would be considered dream picks. Add just those three as uniques and you've satisfied thousands if not millions of people who grew up with their games.

 

[Deleted member]

Only darkness and pain, the anger and pain


PAPER MARIO WOULD BE THE FLAVOR AUGHHHH. I can't stand this much longer! 3 months of this nonsense to go where Banjo is suddenly more likely then Paper Mario according to these rosters.

It really doesn't matter what the Smash fanbase thinks is likely though, it won't change the end result.

 

[Deleted member]

The timing is ripe for Black Tar, so I fail to see the issue.

Is that the battle theme where people rapped?

IS THIS THING ON?

It's definitely one of those franchises for sure, but I think others have it worse. At the very least Elma from XCX was, and still is relevant.

I think Pokemon's timing is really odd, but Sakurai probably got some sheets of reference for potential Pokemon newcomers. I don't think we're getting a new Pokemon but I could always be wrong and we get a Greninja situation where Sakurai was given reference sheets.

Right, but the thing is that Xenoblade X was unfortunately on a console that nobody bought. It sold alright, but 2 probably outsold whatever X sold in about 6 months. This is why I kinda feel that Elma getting revealed will be probably invoke a more vitriolic reaction than Corrin, because by a wide margin people know Rex & Pyra and not really much of Elma or Xenoblade X, thanks to the install base of the Switch being massive and still growing. People will be asking "Who's this? THIS is our next Xenoblade character? Where's Rex and Pyra at?" and it'll be a headache I think all of us don't want.

That's where my concern really falls at, at the end of the day. And like you said with Greninja, maybe it could be possible for Rex, or practically any character in any franchise. We are talking about Sakurai, after all, the Master of Japes. He could add the girl golfer from Mario Golf 64. And you know what? I'd drop K. Rool and Snake and MAIN HER IN AN INSTANT.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I think the main reason the 'flavor' is gone from people's roster predictions is that since is the Smash most focused on fanservice and answering fan qualms, everyone just expects the most parroted characters to make it in. Geno, Isaac, Banjo, Dee, and Gen 7 Pokemon are heavily expected by many for various, typically overlapping reasons, so there's no reason not to expect them showing up on fan predictions. And the usual Echo suspects are seen because... well, they're picks that make sense and popular characters people want to see, it makes sense they show up everywhere, both for people who want them and people who just expect them.

Ultimate's character picks so far has pointed speculation in a much more bottleneck direction than previous games, especially after Sakurai's comments on the use of the ballot. People are unavoidably going to talk about the most speculated characters, with very little room for uniqueness amongst them. Had Ultimate not already ousted itself as the 'we finally include everyone you've been wanting' game, we'd probably be seeing a lot more wild predictions.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Honestly I don't get why Smash was ever T. Ultimate has Cloud, Bayo, Snake, Dante is coming (), but no Melee is the T one.

These games have always been for everybody

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Only darkness and pain, the anger and pain


PAPER MARIO WOULD BE THE FLAVOR AUGHHHH. I can't stand this much longer! 3 months of this nonsense to go where Banjo is suddenly more likely then Paper Mario according to these rosters.

I'm honestly confused as to where banjo being likely has suddenly come from tbh, even if the roster is entirely based on ballot choices I'm doubtful he'd even rank that high in 2015 of all years.

Rayman was the more popular third party back then anyway.

 

[Garteam]

Actually I'm pretty sure the ballot was super interested in finding out what girls wanted.

It's why they had a gender option in the ballot.

But if that's the case, who did they vote for?

This is totally anecdotal, but a lot of my female friends (who are deep into Nintendo) really like Chrom. I could see women being a large chunk of Chrom's voter base in the ballot.

Can't really blame them Chrom's a stud.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is why I kinda feel that Elma getting revealed will be probably invoke a more vitriolic reaction than Corrin, because by a wide margin people know Rex & Pyra and not really much of Elma or Xenoblade X, thanks to the install base of the Switch being massive and still growing. People will be asking "Who's this? THIS is our next Xenoblade character? Where's Rex and Pyra at?" and it'll be a headache I think all of us don't want.

That's where my concern really falls at, at the end of the day. And like you said with Greninja, maybe it could be possible for Rex, or practically any character in any franchise. We are talking about Sakurai, after all, the Master of Japes. He could add the girl golfer from Mario Golf 64. And you know what? I'd drop K. Rool and Snake and MAIN HER IN AN INSTANT.

I don't think people would mind Elma at all. Everywhere I look I see nothing but positive reactions to Elma.

She is nowhere near a Corrin situation.

 

[DJ3DS]

I still find it incredibly silly to act like Smash 4 "focused on new characters" when the characters who debutted before Brawl were:
-Villager
-Wii Fit
-Mega Man
-Little Mac
-Miis
-Rosalina and Luma
-Palutena
-Pac-Man
-Bowser Jr.
-Duck Hunt

And half of those debutted before Smash 64 itself.
Greninja, Robin, Lucina, Shulk and Dark Pit were the only "new" characters in terms of age.

I think that to be fair with this you should only be counting characters who debuted before Brawl started development, not release.

Namely, I think you're having a laugh if you don't count Wii Fit and Rosalina as new.

Beyond that, I think most would argue that Palutena (and to a lesser extent Little Mac) are "new" by virtue of their recent revivals, both of which were after Brawl.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I'm honestly confused as to where banjo being likely has suddenly come from tbh, even if the roster is entirely based on ballot choices I'm doubtful he'd even rank that high in 2015 of all years.

Rayman was the more popular third party back then anyway.

I think it comes from Rare saying they'd be open to it or something so everybody thinks its a given (even though literally everybody says they'd like their char in smash)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly I don't get why Smash was ever T. Ultimate has Cloud, Bayo, Snake, Dante is coming (), but no Melee is the T one.

These games have always been for everybody

Didn't the E10 rating just not exist then?

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly I don't get why Smash was ever T. Ultimate has Cloud, Bayo, Snake, Dante is coming (), but no Melee is the T one.

These games have always been for everybody

That's because Melee doesn't shower

I'm honestly confused as to where banjo being likely has suddenly come from tbh, even if the roster is entirely based on ballot choices I'm doubtful he'd even rank that high in 2015 of all years.

Rayman was the more popular third party back then anyway.

Actually, yeah, people need to remember that Artsy Omni raised Rayman demand a lot with his stunt

 

[domriver]

So is it safe to put Shantae to rest or still a HIGH possibility?

 

[PeridotGX]

Only darkness and pain, the anger and pain


PAPER MARIO WOULD BE THE FLAVOR AUGHHHH. I can't stand this much longer! 3 months of this nonsense to go where Banjo is suddenly more likely then Paper Mario according to these rosters.

Yeah. I really don't get the sudden surge in Banjo expectations. Microsoft may be too much of a hassle to go through for the base game. I only expect one more 3rd party and it's Rayman (okay technically 2 but Square's already on-board).

Also I'm sorry but I took Paper Mario of my prediction roster from pre-8/8

 

[DarkFalcon]

I know Rayman was popular back then especially with the fake leak but I couldn't go anywhere without seeing people mention Banjo as DLC.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So is it safe to put Shantae to rest or still a HIGH possibility?

I'd say medium. She could be DLC.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

So is it safe to put Shantae to rest or still a HIGH possibility?

Deconfirmed or HIGH possibility, there is no middle ground.

I'd say she's not impossible but not likely ever since SK got revealed as a AT

 

[Chrono.]

The Smash fanbase won't budge from what they consider likely until a Robin situation happens which I believe is extremely likely.

Tails is happening b o y z

Would Lloyd Irving be considered "out there"?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Is that the battle theme where people rapped?

IS THIS THING ON?



Right, but the thing is that Xenoblade X was unfortunately on a console that nobody bought. It sold alright, but 2 probably outsold whatever X sold in about 6 months. This is why I kinda feel that Elma getting revealed will be probably invoke a more vitriolic reaction than Corrin, because by a wide margin people know Rex & Pyra and not really much of Elma or Xenoblade X, thanks to the install base of the Switch being massive and still growing. People will be asking "Who's this? THIS is our next Xenoblade character? Where's Rex and Pyra at?" and it'll be a headache I think all of us don't want.

That's where my concern really falls at, at the end of the day. And like you said with Greninja, maybe it could be possible for Rex, or practically any character in any franchise. We are talking about Sakurai, after all, the Master of Japes. He could add the girl golfer from Mario Golf 64. And you know what? I'd drop K. Rool and Snake and MAIN HER IN AN INSTANT.

I don't think rex and pyra are really that popular in the grand scheme of things tbh, it just feels more like one of those cases where they're expected rather than wanted.

And Elma wouldn't have nearly as bad of a reception, the reason corrin was hated was because he was another fire emblem character, people already viewed the franchise as overrepresented before he came in, didn't help that he was one of the last dlc characters

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Beyond that, I think most would argue that Palutena (and to a lesser extent Little Mac) are "new" by virtue of their recent revivals, both of which were after Brawl.

I will never count the character who debued before the NES and had most of his fanbase born from that NES game new.

Look, if we count Palutena and Little Mac as new then I am going to count most of the Brawl roster as new.

 

[P.Kat]

If you die in Smash speculation you die for real!

Funny enough I had a dream like that sometime ago, all of us and many other were transported in a VR world, where we'd see a Direct from Sakurai every two months, and your choice for your wanted characters was connected to your life support system, and if all your character were disconfirmed you die. It was... an interesting dream to say the least.

[IMG]https://smashboards.com/data/avatars/s/235/235492.jpg?1530807552[/IMG] SegaNintendoUbisoft alt detected

Crap they're onto me O_O *crash through window*

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think the main reason the 'flavor' is gone from people's roster predictions is that since is the Smash most focused on fanservice and answering fan qualms, everyone just expects the most parroted characters to make it in. Geno, Isaac, Banjo, Dee, and Gen 7 Pokemon are heavily expected by many for various, typically overlapping reasons, so there's no reason not to expect them showing up on fan predictions. And the usual Echo suspects are seen because... well, they're picks that make sense and popular characters people want to see, it makes sense they show up everywhere, both for people who want them and people who just expect them.

Ultimate's character picks so far has pointed speculation in a much more bottleneck direction than previous games, especially after Sakurai's comments on the use of the ballot. People are unavoidably going to talk about the most speculated characters, with very little room for uniqueness amongst them. Had Ultimate not already ousted itself as the 'we finally include everyone you've been wanting' game, we'd probably be seeing a lot more wild predictions.

Speculation has always been bottle-necked, it's just that unlike several months ago, characters aren't deemed unrealistic just because of a lack of recent appearance. Calling a character like Isaac "predictable" is funny especially because he is the exact type of character who would just be considered "unreasonable" in character predictions back in early March compared to Spring Man and Rex. If you didn't have a recent appearance or was considered "retro" by the community, you simply had little chance in the eyes of speculators.

 

[Will]

My question is, what audience is Smash directed at. Is it directed at kids? Is directed at teens? Why the E10 rating then?

You misunderstand the meaning of the ESRB rating. It's only a recommendation, not entirely used for what the game itself is designed for. The game is designed to appease fans of the series, but that won't mean the game won't attract newcomers either with the rating. With the lower rating, it gives a broader appeal to new faces and hence more sales.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I know Rayman was popular back then especially with the fake leak but I couldn't go anywhere without seeing people mention Banjo as DLC.

Really? Maybe I just have a bad memory but I don't remember him being mentioned at all

 

[Fenriraga]

Only darkness and pain, the anger and pain


PAPER MARIO WOULD BE THE FLAVOR AUGHHHH. I can't stand this much longer! 3 months of this nonsense to go where Banjo is suddenly more likely then Paper Mario according to these rosters.

Sorry, but even with TTYD as my all time favorite game, the previous 2 (techincally 3 since Paper Jam) Paper Mario entries have all but diminished my desire for him. Unless they were to base him primarily on SPM and before, I don't really want much to do with him.

I think a lot of people feel the same, since he hasn't been showing up as much in fan rosters and polls. If this were the Brawl days, he and Geno would be neck and neck for me. At least Geno could represent the heydays of the Mario RPGs.

And I don't see how that lineup isn't flavorful. It's extremely diverse.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Really? Maybe I just have a bad memory but I don't remember him being mentioned at all

As far as I remember Banjo and Rayman has always been pretty even when it comes to popularity but people thought Rayman was more likely cause Nintendo's relationship with Ubisoft and Rare is under Microsoft

 

[Will]

So is it safe to put Shantae to rest or still a HIGH possibility?

You say that like Shantae was ever close to being high in probability in her entire existence.

 

[Chrono.]

I don't think rex and pyra are really that popular in the grand scheme of things tbh, it just feels more like one of those cases where they're expected rather than wanted.

And Elma wouldn't have nearly as bad of a reception, the reason corrin was hated was because he was another fire emblem character, people already viewed the franchise as overrepresented before he came in, didn't help that he was one of the last dlc characters

Rex and Pyra are definitely popular.

Maybe not as much in Smashboards, but places like Reddit and Twitter advocate for them quite a bit.

Plus Rex scored high on a Japanese poll recently, did he not?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Didn't the E10 rating just not exist then?

It became a thing in 2005.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Really? Maybe I just have a bad memory but I don't remember him being mentioned at all

Yea, I recall Banjo being talked about quite a lot during the Smash Ballot. It's one of the names I saw the most along with K. Rool.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'd be perfectly happy if the safe roster predictions end up more or less being what we get, because I really like those rosters, and at the end of the day the end result is more important than a surprise moment.

Besides, this game has already surprised us a lot compared to our expectations before its reveal, people just forget that because they're impatient and expect there to be daily developments in Smash speculation. If the next reveal changes the general consensus again then you'll also get tired of the new most likely characters within a few days again, it's just how it goes.

 

[Kuon]

How about a game until a new major leak pops up? (I have an odd hunch we'll know everything about the game by late September and a September or October direct will confirm some big controversial leak)

You can add up to 4 new characters, literally anyone you want that has appeared in a video game before (yes, even shrek or Goku, but preferably from a Nintendo console game or handheld), but you have to axe a character from each previous SSB game.

To get your first character, you must remove someone from Smash for Wii U/3DS. That character will also no longer appear in Ultimate so choose carefully!! To get your second character, you now also have to remove a character from Brawl (and they wouldn't appear in any future games, including Ultimate!). To get your third character, go back to Melee, and if you want that final character you need to axe an original 12.

You can choose to add up to 4, but don't need to add 4. I'll go now as an example:

Character 1: Banjo-Kazooie
Character to Cut for Banjo-Kazooie (reminder, first character cut is from Wii U/3DS and is also removed from Ultimate): Dark Pit
Character 2: Doom-Guy
Character to be cut for Doom-Guy: Toon Link
Character 3: Sylux
Character to be cut for Sylux: Pichu
Character 4: N/A
Character to be cut for N/A: Not Applicable (Never want to cut an original 12 personally)

I want to see who you guys would want to add and who you would remove to get them.

Character 1: I'd replace Wii Fit Trainer and add Miyabi from Senran Kagura

Character 2: I'd replace Snake and add Homura from Senran Kagura

Character 3: I'd replace Mewtwo and add Asagi from Disgaea

Character 4: I'd replace Captain Falcon and add Kuon from Utawarerumono (my profile picture)

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think people would mind Elma at all. Everywhere I look I see nothing but positive reactions to Elma.

She is nowhere near a Corrin situation.

I wouldn't mind, but of course, my priorities are for the literal other humanized Monado. It depends on where you look, I suppose, I've seen a good amount wanting someone else. Mainly why I think it'd be a Corrin-esque situation is because Elma is from a game only released on the Wii U (as of now, that is), and even if it's Xenoblade, people - heck, even Nintendo - would really like to forget about that era. And we know how the internet will react to anything Wii U-related nowadays, HEYO.

 

[IronTed]

Didn't the E10 rating just not exist then?

Correct, back then it was either E or T for a game like Melee. Although Brawl still ended up with a T rating for some reason.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Correct, back then it was either E or T for a game like Melee. Although Brawl still ended up with a T rating for some reason.

if I'm not mistaken the "some reason" was the fact that Master Hand was seemingly bleeding in a Subspace Emissary CGI cutscene

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'd be perfectly happy if the safe roster predictions end up more or less being what we get, because I really like those rosters, and at the end of the day the end result is more important than a surprise moment.

Besides, this game has already surprised us a lot compared to our expectations before its reveal, people just forget that because they're impatient and expect there to be daily developments in Smash speculation. If the next reveal changes the general consensus again then you'll also get tired of the new most likely characters within a few days again, it's just how it goes.

Hey man as long as we aren't talking about chairs it's fine.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Character 1: I'd replace Wii Fit Trainer and add Miyabi from Senran KaguraView attachment 160184
Character 2: I'd replace Snake and add Homura from Senran KaguraView attachment 160185
Character 3: I'd replace Mewtwo and add Asagi from DisgaeaView attachment 160186
Character 4: I'd replace Captain Falcon and add Kuon from Utawarerumono (my profile picture)View attachment 160187

Now thats the T rated smash bros Im talkin about