Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigi The President]

Surprisingly, I've seen little to no Daisy hate since E3.
I've actually seen like no discussion of her whatsoever.
Even though I plan to try and main her, I've forgotten about her from time to time!
She's an incredibly neat addition, IMO. A long-asked for character. Feels like a little treat after a fancy dinner.

 

[The Kirbyister]

My hype for the new characters (first is best 7th is worst)

 

[Sonic Poke]

I made a prediction roster based on what I think is the most generous scenario, what do you think?

Unique Fighters (11):
Inkling, Ridley, Simon, King K. Rool: Confirmed
Skull Kid: Looks really likely due to assist trophy replacement.
Dillon: Among the other assist trophy absence he seems to be the most likely.
Isaac: Smash Ballot.
Incineroar: Seems like he is the one who gonna be heavily featured in the anime, just like Greninja, Lucario and Mewtwo were last time.
Monster Hunter: Rathalos.
Lloyd: DLC pack 3 mii costume along with Chrom and K. Rool (and flying man but they had an unused 3d model of him so nevermind).
Geno: Smash Ballot.

Echo Fighters (11):
Dark Samus, Daisy, Chrom, Richter: Confirmed
Ninten: Seems really easy to implement and makes a lot of sense.
Isabelle: New face of animal crossing.
Black Knight and Shadow: Castle seige absence and assist trophy likely gone. Black Knight was a DLC pack 3 mii costume along with Chrom and K. Rool. And with Dark Samus and Dark Pit it seems we are getting some dark themed echo fighters.
Ken: Original Echo Fighter.
Felix: A placeholder. But would be a neat bonus.

 

[SirCamp]

Surprisingly, I've seen little to no Daisy hate since E3.
I've actually seen like no discussion of her whatsoever.
Even though I plan to try and main her, I've forgotten about her from time to time!
She's an incredibly neat addition, IMO. A long-asked for character. Feels like a little treat after a fancy dinner.

I'd be surprised if people actually hate daisy. For me she is just sort a nonentity. She's there. And she's been there for a while. But I've never cared about her and she's never really been important. So her being in Smash is just very meh to me. I feel like a lot of people reacted to her inclusion by sort of just going really? Her? But like why? Which fans took as hate, but mostly it's just that she seems like an odd choice.

 

[praline]

I made a prediction roster based on what I think is the most generous scenario, what do you think?

Unique Fighters (11):
Inkling, Ridley, Simon, King K. Rool: Confirmed
Skull Kid: Looks really likely due to assist trophy replacement.
Dillon: Among the other assist trophy absence he seems to be the most likely.
Isaac: Smash Ballot.
Incineroar: Seems like he is the one who gonna be heavily featured in the anime, just like Greninja, Lucario and Mewtwo were last time.
Monster Hunter: Rathalos.
Lloyd: DLC pack 3 mii costume along with Chrom and K. Rool (and flying man but they had an unused 3d model of him so nevermind).
Geno: Smash Ballot.

Echo Fighters (11):
Dark Samus, Daisy, Chrom, Richter: Confirmed
Ninten: Seems really easy to implement and makes a lot of sense.
Isabelle: New face of animal crossing.
Black Knight and Shadow: Castle seige absence and assist trophy likely gone. Black Knight was a DLC pack 3 mii costume along with Chrom and K. Rool. And with Dark Samus and Dark Pit it seems we are getting some dark themed echo fighters.
Ken: Original Echo Fighter.
Felix: A placeholder. But would be a neat bonus.

If a Monster Hunter was gonna be playable I assume we would have seen them revealed before Rathalos.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It would be hype if we could somehow get Dillon but I don't expect him

 

[Starbound]

Hype o'meter:

11/10:
10/10:
6/10:
5/10:
4/10:

Smash 4 for reference:
11/10:
10/10:
9/10:
8/10:
7/10:
5/10: :ultrobin
2/10:

 

[Luigi The President]

I made a prediction roster based on what I think is the most generous scenario, what do you think?

Unique Fighters (11):
Inkling, Ridley, Simon, King K. Rool: Confirmed
Skull Kid: Looks really likely due to assist trophy replacement.
Dillon: Among the other assist trophy absence he seems to be the most likely.
Isaac: Smash Ballot.
Incineroar: Seems like he is the one who gonna be heavily featured in the anime, just like Greninja, Lucario and Mewtwo were last time.
Monster Hunter: Rathalos.
Lloyd: DLC pack 3 mii costume along with Chrom and K. Rool (and flying man but they had an unused 3d model of him so nevermind).
Geno: Smash Ballot.

Echo Fighters (11):
Dark Samus, Daisy, Chrom, Richter: Confirmed
Ninten: Seems really easy to implement and makes a lot of sense.
Isabelle: New face of animal crossing.
Black Knight and Shadow: Castle seige absence and assist trophy likely gone. Black Knight was a DLC pack 3 mii costume along with Chrom and K. Rool. And with Dark Samus and Dark Pit it seems we are getting some dark themed echo fighters.
Ken: Original Echo Fighter.
Felix: A placeholder. But would be a neat bonus.

You know, i'd love to see Dillon, I just can't see it. Not to say it can't happen, but I'd be shocked if he got in over a first party like Paper Mario or Dixie Kong.
I feel Monster Hunter would've been revealed alongside Rathalos. Why would they wait so long to reveal him afterwards?
I'd add in Black Shadow if you're gonna add Ninten, too.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I'd be surprised if people actually hate daisy. For me she is just sort a nonentity. She's there. And she's been there for a while. But I've never cared about her and she's never really been important. So her being in Smash is just very meh to me. I feel like a lot of people reacted to her inclusion by sort of just going really? Her? But like why? Which fans took as hate, but mostly it's just that she seems like an odd choice.

To me, Daisy signifies that we may be getting a lot more echoes than we think. She's not really important in anything she's been in, especially when there are plenty of other character that deserve slots (even as Echoes)

 

[Sonic Poke]

If a Monster Hunter was gonna be playable I assume we would have seen them revealed before Rathalos.

Boxing Ring was revealed before Little Mac. We have precedents.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Boxing Ring was revealed before Little Mac. We have precedents.

But it was also a generic boxing ring at that time, it wasn't shown as being a punch out stage. if we had a generic dragon instead of rathalos that comparison would actually work

 

[praline]

Boxing Ring was revealed before Little Mac. We have precedents.

Yeah but Monster Hunter is a third party series and Punch Out isn’t.

 

[Luigi The President]

Boxing Ring was revealed before Little Mac. We have precedents.

Boxing Ring isn't explicitly Punch-Out, and it wasn't highlighted in the Direct for multiple minutes at a time.
Rathalos is very much Monster Hunter, very much highlighted.
It's a similar precedent but I wouldn't say it's on the same scale.

 

[RileyXY1]

Just a reminder, Black Knight was never on Castle Siege. A generic general was there to begin with, and it was always red. It's just more visible against the black background.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Boxing Ring was revealed before Little Mac. We have precedents.

But that is a stage. We still don't know if that area where Rathalos is a bossfight is even a stage, it looks more like it has to do with the bossfight area in the new single player mode. That's not to say I wouldn't be excited for the character. It'd be pretty awesome to have.

 

[Luigi The President]

Just a reminder, Black Knight was never on Castle Siege. A generic general was there to begin with, and it was always red. It's just more visible against the black background.

A reminder that, to my knowledge, no general resembles the infamous gene_10 of Castle Siege fame besides Black Knight. I could be totally wrong and stupid, but the resemblance to Black Knight is pretty uncanny.
Perhaps the golden outlining was to make him stand out against the background and make him more visible.

You raise a good point though and could totally be 100% right.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Just a reminder, Black Knight was never on Castle Siege. A generic general was there to begin with, and it was always red. It's just more visible against the black background.

Indeed but it looks like him. He may have been removed for this reason. That is a possibility.

 

[RileyXY1]

Indeed but it looks like him. He may have been removed for this reason. That is a possibility.

It doesn't.

 

[DJ3DS]

Surprisingly, I've seen little to no Daisy hate since E3.
I've actually seen like no discussion of her whatsoever.
Even though I plan to try and main her, I've forgotten about her from time to time!
She's an incredibly neat addition, IMO. A long-asked for character. Feels like a little treat after a fancy dinner.

Daisy herself was never really hated. It was just the concept of her getting in as some Mario spin-off showcase that was - either because people thought this was a dull idea or because they'd rather have Waluigi instead.

My perspective has always been "she'd be a cool alternate costume for Peach" which is effectively what she is. I don't think there was ever anyone except the Daisy supporters themselves who were really against that idea.

 

[Luigi The President]

It doesn't.

Yes, it does. Show me another general with a helmet like that besides BK.

 

[Deleted member]

Would Black Knight even work as an Echo of Ike? He's so big and bulky; most Echos so far have at least similar proportions to the character they're based off of.

 

[Luigi The President]

Would Black Knight even work as an Echo of Ike? He's so big and bulky; most Echos so far have at least similar proportions to the character they're based off of.

Yes.
He can do every move Ike does, though he'd likely swap out Aether for a teleport.
The model isn't really something to be concerned about, imho. Sakurai's modelers are magic. I really think they can make it work.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Daisy herself was never really hated. It was just the concept of her getting in as some Mario spin-off showcase that was - either because people thought this was a dull idea or because they'd rather have Waluigi instead.

My perspective has always been "she'd be a cool alternate costume for Peach" which is effectively what she is. I don't think there was ever anyone except the Daisy supporters themselves who were really against that idea.

Doesn't really help that there are some crazy daisy supporters that ended up making people dislike her, I mean every fandom has it's crazies but some of those daisy fans are really wild

 

[Sonic Poke]

But it was also a generic boxing ring at that time, it wasn't shown as being a punch out stage. if we had a generic dragon instead of rathalos that comparison would actually work

Dark Pit was teased before being revealed playable. Ridley was teased before being revealed as a boss. We never know when Sakurai will do that again. But it is indeed weired for a third party, I must admit.

 

[Starbound]

Speaking of Black Knight, does anyone have or remember that popularity poll from earlier this month after we had the direct? It was like the Source Gaming one but didn't have confirmed characters on it. I remember Waddle Dee was #1 on it now and Black Knight was also on it, but does anyone have the image to fill in the gaps?

 

[Luigi The President]

Dark Pit was teased before being revealed playable. Ridley was teased before being revealed as a boss. We never know when Sakurai will do that again. But it is indeed weired for a third party, I must admit.

The problem is it's really more than weird for a third party. A third party is a much bigger spectacle of a reveal than a first party, most of the time at least, and Ridley being teased as a boss isn't really comparable imho.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Yes.
He can do every move Ike does, though he'd likely swap out Aether for a teleport.
The model isn't really something to be concerned about, imho. Sakurai's modelers are magic. I really think they can make it work.

Not to mention, we have Echoes that are different sizes from their originals (Daisy and Lucina). The model's nothing to worry about.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, okay then. Cool, cool, I wasn't sure seeing as how I haven't played any of the FEs that Ike is in yet. Which one is Black Knight from?

 

[Luigi The President]

Oh, sorry I'm late, here's my newcomer hype list.

In order of most to least hype...

Oh, okay then. Cool, cool, I wasn't sure seeing as how I haven't played any of the FEs that Ike is in yet. Which one is Black Knight from?

Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn (Dawn is a sequel to PoR)
He's considered one of, if not the, best antagonists in the series, so have fun if you want to learn his background!

 

[Will]

Oh, okay then. Cool, cool, I wasn't sure seeing as how I haven't played any of the FEs that Ike is in yet. Which one is Black Knight from?

I think he was in Roy's but he was like the final boss or something
we will never know since the game aint in the west

 

[BlueMagician]

Surprisingly, I've seen little to no Daisy hate since E3.
I've actually seen like no discussion of her whatsoever.
Even though I plan to try and main her, I've forgotten about her from time to time!
She's an incredibly neat addition, IMO. A long-asked for character. Feels like a little treat after a fancy dinner.

Daisy's cool, but Daisy in Smash I can't really talk about since we have very little footage to look at - we're still in the dark about how she differs from Peach.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Black Knight is one of, it not the most popular of the Fire Emblem villains, at least of those that aren't evil dragon gods.

I'm not sure of it but I can see it happening.
Wonder if he'll have a helmetless alt or will they keep that under wraps.

 

[Will]

Black Knight is one of, it not the most popular of the Fire Emblem villains, at least of those that aren't evil dragon gods.

Black Knight? I sleep.

REAL ****?

I'm not sure of it but I can see it happening.
Wonder if he'll have a helmetless alt or will they keep that under wraps.

If they can spoil Xenoblade and not care they can spoil Fire Emblem and care even less.

 

[Luigi The President]

Black Knight is one of, it not the most popular of the Fire Emblem villains, at least of those that aren't evil dragon gods.

I'm not sure of it but I can see it happening.
Wonder if he'll have a helmetless alt or will they keep that under wraps.

There are few characters the entire Fire Emblem fandom seems to agree on as being wonderful. Black Knight's one of them.
I feel Black Knight in Smash would excite the Fire Emblem fandom more than Robin, Lucina, Chrom, and Corrin, as he's a long-loved character who both old-era and new-era FE fans seem to agree on as amazing.
On the helmetless alt; I don't think so, just because Fiora's spoiler existence is only in one missable Final Smash out of the whole game. A playable character isn't too similar to that.

 

[Roberk]

Oh, okay then. Cool, cool, I wasn't sure seeing as how I haven't played any of the FEs that Ike is in yet. Which one is Black Knight from?

I think he was in Roy's but he was like the final boss or something
we will never know since the game aint in the west

Nope, Black Knight is in Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, which both released in the West on the Gamecube and the Wii respectively.

Zephiel is the main villain of Binding Blade (Roy's game) if you're wondering.

 

[Momotsuki]

I really hope King D-Mind's theme is included in the game in some capacity, be it a simple original track or a new remix.

 

[Will]

Nope, Black Knight is in Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, which both released in the West on the Gamecube and the Wii respectively.

You were so close. Of course I know who Zephiel is but you still fell into the trap anyway.
I even linked several videos of Zelgius with Ike and made several arguments about him. How did you sink?

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't know how anybody can look back at Smash 4's newcomers and try to call it underwhelming. I'll even ignore the immense weight of Ryu and Cloud joining as DLC.

You've got Villager, the face of Animal Crossing, the last of Nintendo's major franchises to not make it into Smash.

The super fighting robot Mega Man, one of the most beloved video game franchises ever, back in his purest form.

Little Mac, the star of the Nintendo franchise most suited towards fighting and a fan favorite.

Mii Fighters on the whole were tremendous, it allowed for so much creativity and fun.

Pac-Man, the grandfather of gaming and the king of the arcades.

Fire Emblem got a character without a Down-B counter (okay this a meme but Robin is at least by far the most unique FE character).

Shulk was a huge fan desire and brought Xenoblade back into popularity, pushing it to be a real franchise.

Wii Fit Trainer was the meme, her being initially (and somewhat post-release) unpopular is typical.

Duck Hunt was the B-Side to Super Mario Bros. and one of the most well-known (and infamous) NES games.

And Rosalina, Greninja, Palutena, and Bowser Jr. were also characters who were extremely appreciated by their fandoms.

Not every fighter strikes gold, but you can't deny that the game brought some heavy hitters as well as some highly-desired fan choices. And don't act like every Smash before For had a golden, flawless roster. 64 had freaking Jigglypuff, and Melee brought in the likes of Dr. Mario, Roy, and Pichu. As much as people hated Brawl's roster before release, in hindsight, it has the fewest 'questionable' picks. You can forgive Smash 4 for having Lucina and Dark Pit.

Yeah, not everyone is gonna like the same stuff, but how can anyone tell me the entry with the debuts of Mega Man, Little Mac and Pac-Man is "disappointing"? For real. Hell, Rosalina, Bowser Jr, Palutena, Duck Hunt and Shulk are all good choices too. And Greninja's a real popular Pokemon who fit like a glove. Then you have Robin, a really unique character in too. **** it, adding in Ryu made for THE best DLC character too, spoilers or not.

Dark Pit being in doesn't spoil the rest.

 

[Roberk]

You were so close.

I mean, I had a feeling you didn't need that info but not correcting the original statement is how misinformation is spread.

 

[MagnesD3]

67 + 6 clones = 73 characters
Now try to add 27 characters to make it 100, extra points if you go for variety of franchises and not just grab 20 pokemons.

My prediction if there would be 100 characters
3 means echo

1. Banjo Kazooie
2. Paper Mario dlc
3. Rex/Pyra dlc
4. Crash Bandicoot dlc
5. Spring Man dlc
6. Sora dlc
7. Master chief dlc
8. Elma
9. Black Shadow 3
10. Shadow 3
11. Geno
12. Isaac
13. Skull Kid
14. Incineroar
15. Rayman dlc
16. Heihachi dlc
17. Black Knight 3
18. Matthew 3
19. Dixie Kong 3
20. Chorus Kids
21. Gothetelle 3
22. Bandana Dee
23. Gardevoir
24. Impa 3
25. Isabelle 3
26. Dante
27. Ken 3