Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

Seems like the Smash 4 hate started very slowly and late...only to become a big deal to hate on Bayonetta and dummies

is just
I don't see a lot of hate from this one.
hmu when Smash 64 competitive becomes an actual thing

 

[Rayman001]

I agree with you, after all, we saw Ridley in the clouds far before he was confirmed playable.

So, because there was one thing he didn't hint at, it's impossible there were other things he actually did hint at? What kind of argument is that? Do you just want to make fun of me for wanting an actual answer and not a sarcastic "this is clearly wrong" again?

Edit: Just realized this might come off as me being a whiny ***** who just has to be right. But I really just want an actual argument. I've read the pages about this and it was just immediately dismissed by almost everyone for no real reason.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The best thing about potential Touhou content in Smash is the amazing music.

 

[Questionmark222]

Here's my hype ranking for each of the already known newcomers:

 

[Rhus]

The problem with imbalance in Sm4sh and Brawl was counterplay.

Melee Fox had very exploitable weaknesses but the strongest "advantages" so to speak.

Bayo and MK are very much the "good at everything" characters of their respective games. It's frustrating when the ability to play around them is so narrow and situational.

 

[Nazyrus]

Nope. None in the slightest. Most "leaks" are the same old same old really. The Dante leak caught my eye, but it's similar to most others so it's nothing big.

Literally the only "interesting" stuff I've seen is Dante being deconfirmed, Verg teasing once again this time with a Square character but not saying who … and that's it. Like you said, every single leak are pretending to know the entire roster now (which is impossible unless you work at treehouse or have a role in the company as high or higher than that, and no one at such levels EVER leaks anything), and leaks still mentioning characters already debunked and such… 4chan lost total creativity and we are absolutely dry of anything, hence why we keep running in circles with the same speculations for hundreds of pages now lol

 

[Deleted member]

is just

*Sighs dramatically*
That is where you are very wrong, my friend.

The best thing about potential Touhou content in Smash is the amazing music.

I never knew what Touhou was until now.
What is your favorite song?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Trying to decide which newcomer roster is the most hype is all subjective anyways.

Some will say Melee, some will say Brawl, some will say Smash 4, some will say Ultimate.

But at the end of the day each is kind of incredible in their own ways as Sakurai keeps finding new ways to surprise and add to the roster in incredible ways.

Like that image of 8 player that was posted earlier is the combonation of work from each installment we've had thus far and that? That's incredible.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

How is what I said delusional? I don't get it, how can people, again, just deny or ignore what I wrote? With no argument? This is so weird to me, you think all these things lining up perfectly were just coincidences?

Likely because we tend to see hints in clouds, colored chairs, and comments on eye strain.

Maybe it's a version of stockholm syndrome, but I can understand 4chan when they call Smash fans delusional.

You're using circumstantial evidence to try and actually prove something. You can't. I've seen this done before. Hell, we did it with clouds TWICE, once in Brawl about a decade ago, and again for Sm4sh around 6 years later. And don't even get me started on the theory that some characters were reserved for Sm4sh Wii U and would be unlocked if you linked it with Sm4sh 3DS.

I've been around long enough to know what a delusional argument sounds like.

*Sighs dramatically*
That is where you are very wrong, my friend.

I never knew what Touhou was until now.
What is your favorite song?

This is the only one I know of, but it's an absolute banger.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

*Sighs dramatically*
That is where you are very wrong, my friend.

I never knew what Touhou was until now.
What is your favorite song?

Cirno's theme is fantastic.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I don't know how anybody can look back at Smash 4's newcomers and try to call it underwhelming. I'll even ignore the immense weight of Ryu and Cloud joining as DLC.

You've got Villager, the face of Animal Crossing, the last of Nintendo's major franchises to not make it into Smash.

The super fighting robot Mega Man, one of the most beloved video game franchises ever, back in his purest form.

Little Mac, the star of the Nintendo franchise most suited towards fighting and a fan favorite.

Mii Fighters on the whole were tremendous, it allowed for so much creativity and fun.

Pac-Man, the grandfather of gaming and the king of the arcades.

Fire Emblem got a character without a Down-B counter (okay this a meme but Robin is at least by far the most unique FE character).

Shulk was a huge fan desire and brought Xenoblade back into popularity, pushing it to be a real franchise.

Wii Fit Trainer was the meme, her being initially (and somewhat post-release) unpopular is typical.

Duck Hunt was the B-Side to Super Mario Bros. and one of the most well-known (and infamous) NES games.

And Rosalina, Greninja, Palutena, and Bowser Jr. were also characters who were extremely appreciated by their fandoms.

Not every fighter strikes gold, but you can't deny that the game brought some heavy hitters as well as some highly-desired fan choices. And don't act like every Smash before For had a golden, flawless roster. 64 had freaking Jigglypuff, and Melee brought in the likes of Dr. Mario, Roy, and Pichu. As much as people hated Brawl's roster before release, in hindsight, it has the fewest 'questionable' picks. You can forgive Smash 4 for having Lucina and Dark Pit.

 

[Momotsuki]

If Touhou were to get any sort of representation, I absolutely cannot see it being any more than a Vault Trophy and/or music track.

 

[Deleted member]

And don't even get me started on the theory that some characters were reserved for Sm4sh Wii U and would be unlocked if you linked it with Sm4sh 3DS.

The heck are you talking about? I've been playing Ridley and Chorus Kids for almost 4 years now.

 

[Deleted member]

Well there are two touhou fighting games out there, both of which have Reimu as a character.

I mean specifically in Smash though

What about Ganondorf?

I love Ganon and it feels much more satisfying to play as him but I don't feel as comfortable playing as him. With Shulk, I know exactly what I can and can't get away and feel mucj more confident doing stupid **** with him because his speed, weight and fallspeed all hit that right mark.

So, because there was one thing he didn't hint at, it's impossible there were other things he actually did hint at? What kind of argument is that? Do you just want to make fun of me for wanting an actual answer and not a sarcastic "this is clearly wrong" again?

What? I was agreeing with you man. Remember the trophy theory from the first Smash Direct? It certainly came out true!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Cirno's theme is fantastic.

Show me Cirno's theme

Show me Cirno's real theme

Perfection.

 

[The Kirbyister]

is just

No, Meta Knight is WAY more broken than bayo
In my opinion

Broken list

 

[Deleted member]

The problem with imbalance in Sm4sh and Brawl was counterplay.

Melee Fox had very exploitable weaknesses but the strongest "advantages" so to speak.

Bayo and MK are very much the "good at everything" characters of their respective games. It's frustrating when the ability to play around them is so narrow and situational.

Bayonetta is good in a lot of qualities, but she is nowhere near Brawl Meta Knight.

Bayonetta has an average neutral and players are evolving to counter her, just like the same thing with the other Smash 4 top tiers.

Bayonetta still has problems. For example, a Ganondorf with the same amount of skill as a Bayonetta player can do much better than say...
Brawl Captain Falcon against Brawl Meta Knight. Brawl Meta Knight is just fantastic in all regards. Bayonetta has flaws herself.
If anything, Melee Fox is slightly more dominant than Smash 4 Bayonetta.

I mean specifically in Smash though

Why are you ignoring the fact that I said I can beat you in a Shulk ditto?
Honey.

Trying to decide which newcomer roster is the most hype is all subjective anyways.

Some will say Melee, some will say Brawl, some will say Smash 4, some will say Ultimate.

But at the end of the day each is kind of incredible in their own ways as Sakurai keeps finding new ways to surprise and add to the roster in incredible ways.

Like that image of 8 player that was posted earlier is the combonation of work from each installment we've had thus far and that? That's incredible.

Incredible is an understatement.
I think Sakurai nailed it very well in terms of newcomers in all Smash games.

 

[Momotsuki]

Bayonetta is hecking trash, but she's not nearly as terrible as Brawl's incarnation of Meta Knight. In Smash 4, Jigglypuff beating Bayonetta is uncommon, but definitely a reasonable possibility. In Brawl, Ganondorf beating Meta Knight is impossible without a MASSIVE skill gap that you won't see in competitive play.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

64 had freaking Jigglypuff

Who was awesome.

 

[DraginHikari]

I see you like to keep making fun of these hints, but never bother to give a reason besides "it's a stretch" when it really isn't considering that, so far, they've all come true.

I'd like you to give me an explanation why you think the barrel and wooden ladder were in the background if they were not hinting at K.Rool.
"It is just how his office looks!" No, this stuff is way too random for that to be the case, it has to be a stage.
"It doesn't mean anything!" No, there would be no reason for the background in the 8/8 Direct to look any different then. Changing a background that has no hidden meaning would just be a waste of time. Besides, if I remember correctly, the background in the Smash 4 Directs were always the same, so why bother changing that now?

It also boggles my mind how anyone can argue that the "red eyes" comment was not a hint. Seriously, both "real" newcomers in the Direct had a connection to red eyes. Simon with Bloody Tears, which just so happens to be one of the most popular Castlevania tracks ever, and K.Rool is obvious. Yes, Sakurai really had red eyes in the Direct, but that doesn't disprove that this was also a hint, unlike people seem to think. There is no reason for it not to be both a hint AND him saying he's tired.

I think it's not possible for Sakurai to give hints that are less subtle without just completely giving it away. There will also again be someone to say "well then the plant and floor must also be hints in your eyes lul". No, because, unlike a freaking rope ladder in an office, those don't stand out.
Seriously, if you sent someone a picture of the background and told them that it's an office and nothing else, almost anyone would question a ladder like that just hanging there.

I genuinely want a real argument as to how anyone can think what I said here is not accurate, besides "it's a stretch" and "you're looking too much into it".
I don't even want you to believe the chairs mean anything, even though they likely do, but these past hints were, undeniably in my eyes, hints.

Occam's Razor. Frankly, I don't tend to over complicated things when looking at explanations of situations. If they really are hints and we told that was the intention at some point, I'm willing to accept that. I just don't really see the point of obsessing over the color of chairs or making wild assumptions based on random background elements or looking for newcomer hints in every single word that's said about the game. Frankly, my issue is more how the Smash Community over-analyzes everything that is said, shown, or done in an overly impatient and overly obsessed manner. It a criticism I hold for the gaming community as a whole, it's just more blatant during these Smash Speculation cycles.

 

[AreJay25]

I'm not going to deny that maybe there's a possibility that the background furniture means something.

But I mean... I dunno. Maybe Sakurai just has some weird *** taste when it comes to decorations. Mismatching chairs and what not. I wouldn't know why, that's just how he is.

 

[Will]

No, Meta Knight is WAY more broken than bayo
In my opinion

Broken list

So you agree with what I'm saying?
Broken and hated. I'm not wrong.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Smash 4's newcomer selection was hit or miss for me. Some characters I absolutely loved and others ranged from alright to no strong feelings otherwise ultcorrin:.

While I overall liked it, Ultimate's roster is becoming my favorite. are definitely highlights for me, and really the only one I'm average on is .

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I like the newcomers in more or less this order

Maybe switch Simon and Inkling since Simon plays similar to Richter

 

[The Kirbyister]

So you agree with what I'm saying?
Broken and hated. I'm not wrong.

Yes I agree with they are both hated and broken but Meta Knight is much more broken than bayo

 

[Deleted member]

Great, I am already dying for another Smash Direct.
That August Smash Direct was too awesome.

Broken list

You have much yet to learn.

Here is the true broken list. You have to put in dominance as a factor. ( Not counting heat. )

Cirno's theme is fantastic.

You're using circumstantial evidence to try and actually prove something. You can't. I've seen this done before. Hell, we did it with clouds TWICE, once in Brawl about a decade ago, and again for Sm4sh around 6 years later. And don't even get me started on the theory that some characters were reserved for Sm4sh Wii U and would be unlocked if you linked it with Sm4sh 3DS.

I've been around long enough to know what a delusional argument sounds like.

This is the only one I know of, but it's an absolute banger.

Thank you both of you. I will take a listen when I feel like it.

Yes I agree with they are both hated and broken but Meta Knight is much more broken than bayo

You said it more than once, kiddo.

 

[Will]

Yes I agree with they are both hated and broken but Meta Knight is much more broken than bayo

I never meant it like that. I meant it as in Bayo and MK are viewed as hated broken. Melee Fox is kinda even with its like/dislike. And nobody plays Smash 64 enough to have a consensus on Pikachu.

So I'm still not wrong.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Got another game we can play. The rules are pretty simple. Order Ultimate's newcomers (not including vets) from most to least favorite, then place your two most-wanted, currently unconfirmed characters on the list.

For example:

I was so excited to get Ridley and the Inklings, and I don't think there's anyone left who could top them. Lycanroc and Mipha are two characters I've been faithfully supporting, so I'd be a little more excited for them than I was with the rest of the current newcomers.

Bringing this back real quick:

:ultedelgard: :ultlyn:


Bring on more Fire Emblem, it's time.

 

[Momotsuki]

I'll play that game.

 

[The Kirbyister]

I never meant it like that. I meant it as in Bayo and MK are viewed as hated broken. Melee Fox is kinda even with its like/dislike. And nobody plays Smash 64 enough to have a consensus on Pikachu.

So I'm still not wrong.

Oh


Pikachu in smash 64 has this technique of basically makes them invincible

 

[Idon]

:ultlyn:

HA, I wish.

 

[Will]

Bring on more Fire Emblem, it's time.

You have no idea how much of a bad idea this is.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So, because there was one thing he didn't hint at, it's impossible there were other things he actually did hint at? What kind of argument is that? Do you just want to make fun of me for wanting an actual answer and not a sarcastic "this is clearly wrong" again?

Edit: Just realized this might come off as me being a whiny ***** who just has to be right. But I really just want an actual argument. I've read the pages about this and it was just immediately dismissed by almost everyone for no real reason.

Are you actually the boy who cried wolf? Because you really sound like the boy who cried wolf right now.

"IT'S AN ACTUAL HINT THIS TIME YOU GUYS! I'M NOT LYING! THIS COULD BE HUGE!"

That's what your argument delves down to at it's core.

You're arguing about hints that either don't exist or can't be proven until after the fact. Hindsight bias at it's finest. That's why you're being dismissed, because the argument that you want doesn't exist.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Seems each Smash has a different identity

64: The charmng janky original
Melee: The refinement
Brawl: The one that tried for wider appeal
4: The one that had to compromise/The one where nearly every character had a gimmick
Ultimate: The Best of Album

 

[Blue7113]

 

[Icedragonadam]

I swear we did this ranking thing before.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

The best thing about potential Touhou content in Smash is the amazing music.

Touhou really has a ton of great tracks.

Native Faith, Himorogi Burn in Violet, Plastic Mind, Grimoire of Alice, Hokuto no Ken Fatal KO theme, etc, etc...

 

[Rayman001]

IWhat? I was agreeing with you man. Remember the trophy theory from the first Smash Direct? It certainly came out true!

I really have no idea what you're talking about. I genuinely think you're being sarcastic right now. What trophy theory?

Occam's Razor. Frankly, I don't tend to over complicated things when looking at explanations of situations. If they really are hints and we told that was the intention at some point, I'm willing to accept that. I just don't really see the point of obsessing over the color of chairs or making wild assumptions based on random background elements or looking for newcomer hints in every single word that's said about the game. Frankly, my issue is more how the Smash Community over-analyzes everything that is said, shown, or done in an overly impatient and overly obsessed manner. It a criticism I hold for the gaming community as a whole, it's just more blatant during these Smash Speculation cycles.

That's fair enough, I just didn't like how dismissive you were to people who like to speculate this way.

Are you actually the boy who cried wolf? Because you really sound like the boy who cried wolf right now.

"IT'S AN ACTUAL HINT THIS TIME YOU GUYS! I'M NOT LYING! THIS COULD BE HUGE!"

That's what your argument delves down to at it's core.

You're arguing about hints that either don't exist or can't be proven until after the fact. Hindsight bias at it's finest. That's why you're being dismissed, because the argument that you want doesn't exist.

I'm sorry? Wasn't trying to be rude or forcing my opinions on others... just thought it was weird almost nobody here thinks that the two things were "hinted at" and then actually came were really hints.

I'll just stop posting about this...

 

[The Kirbyister]

New
Returning fighters

 

[Zinith]

I swear we did this ranking thing before.

That was what I responded to, but I didn't quote the original post and I didn't bother with unconfirmed newcomers

I guess people followed suit...