• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Luigi The President

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
9,728
Location
Rogueport
Honestly, guys, every leak having:
Isabelle, Ken, Incineroar, Geno, and Banjo-Kazooie with one weird surprise pick or Echo thrown in there doesn't make it plausible.

Okay I'LL keep it in mind when the next reveals happen
Edited, never good to speak for everyone, my bad.
I just think the leak's very generic and no more realistic than the rest.
Of course it's a fun leak, I just don't think that makes it any more realistic than most.
 
Last edited:

Billybae10K

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
602
Switch FC
SW-4311-5852-0528
Haven't been in the general discussion in like a week. Can some tldr me any of the interesting stuff that's been going on?
 

Will

apustaja
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
33,457
Location
hell
Switch FC
SW-7573-2962-2407
I don't think its fair to instantly throw it under the bus just because its a riddle leak. It could end up being real, we never know until the game is released. At the least we should keep it in mind until the next reveals
Like every other textpost? Every other textpost in the hundreds that also listed said characters? Said characters because they're safe and easy to predict what the dedicated fans want? Easy to predict because they're already collected by a large amount of community to be highly likely to be in the game?

Under the bus it goes with the other 600.
 

BrytonJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Messages
224
Location
Madrid, New Mexico
Switch FC
SW-5522-4120-7832
Maybe I'm not activating my almonds, but are we still looking into chairs? Like ****, I know we like the series, but all this 4-D chess over the locations Sakurai presents us info is a bit much.

I'd rather talk about how cool X or Y would be in the game or something. Or potential music tracks. That's fun.
Skull Kid Activates his Almonds! should be his reveal gag
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
21,295
Location
The States
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
For the topic of music, the first track I'm suggesting for now is Rundas' Theme. All the real ones want to remember him. And maybe with :ultdarksamus:, we can hear more Prime series tracks in the game.

 

Bionichute

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
2,151
Like every other textpost? Every other textpost in the hundreds that also listed said characters? Said characters because they're safe and easy to predict what the dedicated fans want? Easy to predict because they're already collected by a large amount of community to be highly likely to be in the game?

Under the bus it goes with the other 600.
eh whatever, i'll believe it because i want it
 

ColietheGoalie

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
1,102
For the topic of music, the first track I'm suggesting for now is Rundas' Theme. All the real ones want to remember him. And maybe with :ultdarksamus:, we can hear more Prime series tracks in the game.

I really want more Prime music, but from the direct it looks like we're not getting any. I'd imagine a few more Returns tracks and maybe another retro remix or two
 

Imadethistoseealeak

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
2,102
Here's something to consider.

In every Direct Sakurai puts on, a professional has to come in and help set up this specific setting.
Every bit of this set probably had to be approved and looked over.
Every specific little bit of it.

Why would Sakurai insist on having 2 chairs and a funky pillow?
Right after he had a barrel and ladder?

Just something to think about. I don't have much of an opinion on the pillow theory, but most people seem to think the set's just thrown together in 30 minutes.
I've said this before so just something to consider, I've done coorporate videos before, amateur and professional and not that much thought is always put into the background. It can, but not always. Sound is usually the most important thing to work around. That and accent pieces.

So it's possible Sakurai was like use these particular pieces! But it's also possible the crew just picked some chairs. Anyway I just wanted to point that out, we don't know how much detail the background actually gets. Probably a good amount because it's Sakurai though lol.
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
21,295
Location
The States
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
I really want more Prime music, but from the direct it looks like we're not getting any. I'd imagine a few more Returns tracks and maybe another retro remix or two
Never give up hope till the end. The Prime series has some bangers in it.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,967
So no doubt everybody here is super hyped for the release of ultimate. But let's do a hypothetical scenario.

You finally pop in that sweet, sweet smash cartridge and start to play your much anticipated title when you notice ________________, which totally kills your hype and leaves you disappointed.

What would be the most disappointing thing to find for you and would it be enough to not play the game or limit your playtime?
That already happened for me when Pokemon Trainer and Pichu returned.

I'm still playing the **** out of this game, but that's always going to be a knife right in the "No overlapping Types, fully evolved starter trio" OCD.

Also, Dr. Mario and Pichu not being Echo Fighters has the same effect on me.
 

Luigi The President

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
9,728
Location
Rogueport
I've said this before so just something to consider, I've done coorporate videos before, amateur and professional and not that much thought is always put into the background. It can, but not always. Sound is usually the most important thing to work around. That and accent pieces.

So it's possible Sakurai was like use these particular pieces! But it's also possible the crew just picked some chairs. Anyway I just wanted to point that out, we don't know how much detail the background actually gets. Probably a good amount because it's Sakurai though lol.
Great to hear from someone actually in the business!
I think it's odd how Sakurai keeps changing the sets, as in Smash 4 he simply didn't, and that's why I'm more prone to believing it.
 

SimonferSmash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
195
I really want more Prime music, but from the direct it looks like we're not getting any. I'd imagine a few more Returns tracks and maybe another retro remix or two
It's kinda strange really.

Cause you'd think with Dark Samus making the roster new Prime tracks like her boss themes from Echoes or Corruption would be no brainers or locks.

Then again the music was probably decided before echo fighters so who knows.
 

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,897
Gardevoir is possible and definitely a cool pick. Gothitelle would be even more out there than Pichu. Not a bad choice, just...random.

For me personally, I didn't even remember who Gothitelle was until someone posted a picture, lol. I still don't know if I see it working as a Gardevoir Echo, though...
Gothitelle would work as an Echo, if it happens, they have the same body shape and similar typing and movepool.
Oh yeah very obviously the Majora's Mask prop at Gamescom and the Skull Kid figure on Reggie's desk are just there because they're cool.

But Sakurai's office doesn't have much of an excuse for why it changed.
It's not Sakurai's office, it's just a set or location used. It could mean something, it could mean nothing.
 

Megadoomer

Moderator
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
10,332
Switch FC
SW-0351-1523-9047
I can see Jin representing the franchise at it's peak with Tekken 3.

Tekken 3 is considered one of the best fighting games out there, other than that I fully expect Heihachi to be the first Tekken rep in smash.
I really wish I could play that game. Lousy Gon... That farting dinosaur is the sole reason why Tekken 3 isn't available for download!
 

Garteam

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,217
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Garteam
I'm still holding out for Lycanroc as the Gen 7 'mon. There's a lot of credible leaks pointing away from him, but I feel that he's much more likely than Incineroar when I really sit down and think about what each character has going for them.
 

Bionichute

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
2,151
I'm still holding out for Lycanroc as the Gen 7 'mon. There's a lot of credible leaks pointing away from him, but I feel that he's much more likely than Incineroar when I really sit down and think about what each character has going for them.
I mean honestly Incineroar has a lot more, since we don't have a true dedicated grappler in Smash at all yet. Lycanroc is just a dog from what I can tell. but like, you do you
 
Last edited:

Luigi The President

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
9,728
Location
Rogueport
I'm still holding out for Lycanroc as the Gen 7 'mon. There's a lot of credible leaks pointing away from him, but I feel that he's much more likely than Incineroar when I really sit down and think about what each character has going for them.
Can I ask why? Would love to hear some good reasoning, usually I just see his name tossed about.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,967
Hate to distract from the current debate, but I'm a bit bored and just thought I'd get people's opinions....or in more common board terms...Play a Game.
I just want to see what people would choose given the following restrictions: 4 first-party Newcomers, 1 third-party newcomer that HASN'T been highly requested yet (Geno, Shadow, Bajo-Kazooie), 2 Echoes for already confirmed characters.
1P:
Captain Toad/Toadette
King Hippo
Black Shadow
Spring Man/Ribbon Girl

3P:
Ryu Hayabusa

Echoes:
Impa for Shiek
Bass for Mega Man
 

monadoboy

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
1,192
About the furniture/Skull Kid pics/red eyes/Rathalos pic "teasing" I gotta say I'm still skeptical
Especially the Skull Kid pics. Come on guys, Nintendo does not revolve around Smash and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't tease Smash in a Diablo 3 trailer
All of it sounds too much like the Pyrosphere shadow and the Trophy theory. Too much

That's not to say Sakurai hasn't teased stuff in a somewhat similar fashion in the past though:
  • In Brawl with that "Ness has appeared in Smash up until now" when talking about Lucas
  • the Pseudo-Palutena trophy (the one thing the Trophy theory got right lmao)
  • plus some stuff that was revealed right afterwards or a day later ("finally the climax" in the Bayo reveal, POTD with Meta Knight Mii costume followed by a POTD revealing Meta Knight)
idk though. All those alleged teases sound too fishy to me. I honestly believe that some of the not announced Assist Trophies (and some of the announced ones like Knuckles and the Moon) can mean much more than some chairs or a pic on Instagram tbh
Never forget the time when the Palutena super convincing fake leak started to get traction and the following pic of the day was a close up of Palutena's statue in Palutena's Temple.
 

Will

apustaja
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
33,457
Location
hell
Switch FC
SW-7573-2962-2407
I'm hoping Punch-Out gets some more themes. There's not too many of them, but there's some that I'd like.


I think it's possible to mix all of the different world culture themes from the Wii version and give it a mashup title.
 

Ace C.R.O.S.S.

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 4, 2018
Messages
763
Location
Japanifornia
Hate to distract from the current debate, but I'm a bit bored and just thought I'd get people's opinions....or in more common board terms...Play a Game.
I just want to see what people would choose given the following restrictions: 4 first-party Newcomers, 1 third-party newcomer that HASN'T been highly requested yet (Geno, Shadow, Bajo-Kazooie), 2 Echoes for already confirmed characters.
1st Party:
-Mach Rider (Mach Rider)
-Skull Kid (TLOZ)
-Hans/Isaac (Golden Sun)
-Viridi (Kid Icarus Uprising)

3rd Party:
-Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)

Echoes:
-Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
-Isabelle (Animal Crossing)
 

Flynn__

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
253
Never forget the time when the Palutena super convincing fake leak started to get traction and the following pic of the day was a close up of Palutena's statue in Palutena's Temple.
God, true. That day I saw it clear that Palutena was going to be in the game, there's no way Sakurai was not aware of the fake leak.
 

Garteam

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,217
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Garteam
Can I ask why? Would love to hear some good reasoning, usually I just see his name tossed about.
Sure, I ended up writing this gigantic essay to my friend detailing my reasoning this past weekend. However, it is quite long, so I'll include it anyway but I'll also provide a tl;dr for the sake of brevity:
  • Vergeben's leak against Lycanroc is a pretty large blow to him, but its not an end-all be-all death sentence against Lycanroc
  • Loz's screenshot where he publically disagreed with some of Vergeben's claims could have very well been against his ideas on Pokemon
  • Ash's Lycanroc has been his ace for Alola thus far, being his strongest battler and a large focus of Ash's journey
  • The theory that Torracat will take over Lycanroc's spot as team ace once it evolves into Incineroar is becoming unlikely as the Sun and Moon anime enters its final few arcs
  • Lycanroc's dog-like fighting style and geokinesis may appeal to Sakurai's desire to have unique characters on the roster.
  • Much of Incineroar's gimmick as Smash's first wrestler is already occupied by Bowser and King K. Rool.
The first, and most obvious, thing I need to address is Vergeben’s leak. Yes, Vergeben said that Lycanroc is not in the game and Incineroar is. This is easily the most compelling evidence against Lycanroc and for Incineroar. Vergeben has had a solid record thus far, predicting outlandish characters like Simon and Ridley. However, Vergeben is not a perfect source for information, even on games where he has a solid track record (Raditz and Zarbon say hi). I also think it’s odd Vergeben would deliver a leak this way when he’s been so up front about what characters are in the game before. Why would Vergeben do a complete 180 and start making claims like “x, y, z are not in the game” when claims like “w is in the game” have been his way of delivering information up until now? Thusly, I think there’s a discussion to be had even with Vergeben throwing his hat into the ring. Especially considering there’s a leaker with equal credibly who may disagree with him...

Loz posted a screenshot before the direct of Vergeben messaging him to verify some claims, with Loz stating some of the claims were wrong. The 4 claims Vergeben made in this leak were: Simon is in the game, Isabelle is in the game, Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc are not the Gen 7 Pokemon, and there’s no new DK characters on the base roster (a claim Vergeben himself was not sure of, as he notes). Obviously, the Simon claim was true, so that couldn’t be the section of the leak that Loz disagreed with. Likewise, we know the claim of no new Donkey Kong characters is false, but Vergeben was always very iffy on that idea to begin with, so it’s unlikely Loz would have to publicly call it out as false. That leaves two claims left that could be false, Isabelle being a fighter and Decidueye/Mimikyu/Lycanroc not being fighters. Isabelle strikes me as a near certainty at this point, she’s popular, she’s practically the new face of Animal Crossing when it comes to things like spinoffs (Mario Kart, Amiibo Festival, and Pocket Camp all had Isabelle at the forefront.), her assist trophy is mysteriously absent, and she would be an easy Villager echo. All this points towards Loz possibly disagreeing with Vergeben’s statement of Decidueye or Lycanroc not being in the game (given how Mimikyu is deconfirmed). Disregarding all this discussion over leaks, I still think there’s a lot of practical evidence that hints to Lycanroc over Incineroar.

The most prominent piece of evidence in favour of Lycanroc is his role as Ash’s ace in the anime, similar to Charizard and Greninja. Lycanroc is often Ash’s Pokemon of choice whenever an important battle is about to begin and he has a fairly solid win record. Additionally, Lycanroc’s achievements (such as learning new moves) are often held up as a large deal. I think the arc that best emphasizes this is Ash’s recent battles against Nanu. He was only allowed to bring one Pokemon, and he chose his Lycanroc, showing the dependability and leadership he has over Rowlet, Torracat, and Poipole. He also learned Stone Edge, mastered his feral, red-eyed state, and learned Counter in the middle of his final battle against Nanu, all of which were treated as major feats and achievements for the duo.

A common counterpoint against this is the theory that Ash’s Torracat will evolve and become the new ace of his Alola team. The common piece of evidence to support this idea is Incineroar’s concept art, which shows a sketch of an Incineroar laying near Ash in the bottom right corner. While this realistically could be Professor Kukui’s Incineroar, or a random Incineroar, let’s say this is undeniable proof that Torracat will evolve into Incineroar for the sake of argument. The question then becomes, when is he going to evolve? The anime is currently setting groundwork for an arc about Solgaleo, Lunala, and Ultra Necrozma and an arc about Minna. The anime will also probably have an additional arc with Hapu (or whoever her stand-in is), a few adventures around school and hunting Ultra Beasts, and the inevitable Alolan League arc. Even if Torracat evolves right at the start of this new arc in episode 88, the time for Incineroar to shine as Ash’s main Pokemon is extremely limited. Contrast this with Ash’s Lycanroc, which evolved from Rockruff in episode 38 and took lead of the party shortly after. It would be strange for Game Freak to spend 50 episodes building a Pokemon up, only to discard them.

Lycanroc’s uniqueness is also a large point in its corner. Sakurai has said before that a character being unique and breaking new group is important for a non-echo newcomer. Lycanroc has 2 major factors in its favour: its feral, quadruped fighting style and its earth-based power set. Thus far, we only have 2 quadruped characters in Smash: Ivysaur and Duck Hunt. The former of which uses their vines as arms and the later of which has the duck assist him in his attacks and is rather cartoony. Lycanroc would be quite feral and animalistic, being bound to all fours. Lycanroc would be quite feral and animalistic, being bound to all fours and fighting with bites, slashes, and tackles. One of the biggest concerns over Lycanroc’s possible inclusion is how a quadruped character would wield items without any assistance. I personally don’t think this is a huge deal. Lycanroc could easily hold, swing, and use single hand items such as the Beam Sword or Killing Edge with its mouth. Likewise, heavy items such as crates and party balls could be held and thrown using its back. The biggest issue is the Super Scope, as many figure it needs two hands to hold and shoot. However, Smash has taken a lot of creative liberty with the Super Scope before (Wario holds the front of the super scope and shakes it back and forward to shoot it, for example) so having Lycanroc use the Super Scope isn’t too out there. There’s also geokinesis of Lycanroc that would be unique. Thus far, we have yet to see a character utilize rocks or the ground in their moveset, so Lycanroc would be breaking new thematic ground. Lycanroc’s rock type also gives it access to unique moves which haven’t been seen in Smash yet, such as Stone Edge, Rock Throw, Rock Climb, Drill Run, Stealth Rock, and Accelerock.

Incineroar is slightly more rough for wear in this category. The most common idea for Incineroar is to have him emulate the wrestler archetype found in many fighting games, similar to how Little Mac emulates the fighting style of real world boxers. However, there’s one big problem in the way of Incineroar, Bowser. Bowser is a heavy character with super armour, powerful attacks, a drop kick, and a pile driver command grab, he’s really one lariat away from being a full blown wrestler. Likewise, King K. Rool also has a few wrestler moves, such as his drop kick f-air and back breaking up-throw (although K. Rool takes more from Sumo Wrestlers than Western wrestlers). Sakurai has stated he does not like to have characters that reuse ideas that pre-existing characters already have, which puts Incineroar at a huge disadvantage, especially when we’ve already gotten a heavy weight character with wrestling moves in his moveset. The best case scenario to make Incineroar unique is to go all in with the “heel” idea, giving him moves such as hitting opponents with chairs or spitting in their eyes. However, then the character begins to stray too far from what Incineroar is in Pokemon. Incineroar is a dirty fighter, but he still has an aspect of a legitimate warrior, he isn’t a cheater who can’t confront others in a one-on-one fight. Contrasting this with Lycanroc, the closest character to Lycanroc’s play style is Wolf, but those two would immediately separate themselves due to one being a biped and the other being a quadruped. Incineroar also has a tough card in his fire element, the most common elemental ascetic in Smash. Lycanroc would be fully unique relative to the rest of the Smash roster in his geokinesis attacks.
 
Last edited:

True Blue Warrior

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
9,727
Location
United Kingdom
NNID
TrueBlueSM
3DS FC
2036-7619-4276
Never forget the time when the Palutena super convincing fake leak started to get traction and the following pic of the day was a close up of Palutena's statue in Palutena's Temple.
I remember people debating whether or not Sakurai was actually teasing Palutena or not. The closest thing we have right now to that would maybe be the Rathalos tweet (and that's assuming that tweet even means anything)
 

Bionichute

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
2,151
Sure, I ended up writing this gigantic essay to my friend detailing my reasoning this past weekend. However, it is quite long, so I'll include it anyway but I'll also provide a tl;dr for the sake of brevity:
  • Vergeben's leak against Lycanroc is a pretty large blow to him, but its not an end-all be-all death sentence against Lycanroc
  • Loz's screenshot where he publically disagreed with some of Vergeben's claims could have very well been against his ideas on Pokemon
  • Ash's Lycanroc has been his ace for Alola thus far, being his strongest battler and a large focus of Ash's journey
  • The theory that Torracat will take over Lycanroc's spot as team ace once it evolves into Incineroar is becoming unlikely as the Sun and Moon anime enters its final few arcs
  • Lycanroc's dog-like fighting style and geokinesis may appeal to Sakurai's desire to have unique characters on the roster.
  • Much of Incineroar's gimmick as Smash's first wrestler is already occupied by Bowser and King K. Rool.
I wouldn't really call K. Rool a grappler? He has one kind-of command grab, and even then its a side ability to a projectile. He's more of a zoning/control character than a full on grappler. Bowser also only really has one grappler move, and he doesn't really cover the archetype that well even with it. He's just kind of a big bruiser character, which doesn't translate to grappler.
 

Will

apustaja
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
33,457
Location
hell
Switch FC
SW-7573-2962-2407
When will North America get one?! I want to pay Sakurai so many dollars!

I'm pretty sure we are getting one tho

If you think Europe can have privileges on Smash related content you're lacking
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
Pretty sure I covered why Verg would know what Pokemon isnt in smash while simultaneously not knowing which exact one is in, too.

I almost feel like the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak is the most legitimate because it has a pick that NOBODY was expecting...as an echo no less....for another character that, while liked, did not have a huge vocal faction for...while having the stupidest explanation for HOW he got said information to begin with!

Like....it is so out there...so stupid....that nobody in their right mind would write it thinking its believable....not after everybody and their mother knows that the most credible ones (if you can call them that) are "I work in X department", "I'm on the ESRB committee", "I work for the translation team" excuses. They wrote it because it was the truth; not because they thought 'this is a believable reason!"

Anyway...gonna redirect people's attention slightly upward and restate, "I almost feel" as if this is the case...This explanation makes the chairs theory seem legit.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,219
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I will say one thing about the weird Gothitelle leak; him making up a dumb story as is when they have a different source for the information just to protect the source is not beyond unbelievable.

I don't really believe the leak, not just because of the dumb story, but because Gothitelle's own design makes it impossible for her to be an Echo of Gardevoir. On the surface they look similar, but their models are wayyyyyyyy different. Simply put, Gardevoir actually could be a clone/echo of Zelda and it'd fit better in comparison. As they both have similar models but more important, actual legs. Gothitelle doesn't have legs, just feet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom