Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dixie Kong]

So those that are mainly Issac and Geno supporters, who will you support after your most wanted is announced?

 

[DarkFalcon]

I've never played any Shantae games or Undertale but I like Shantae's design more.

And no, it does not mean I want to **** her.

 

[Nazyrus]

You mean... .. ..

Spoiler: Spoiler Impa

Zelda still have her SS inspired alt costume... the white dress

Pfft you all forget the best Impa

 

[Will]

And no, it does not mean I want to **** her.

you say that like its a bad thing people get wild over her
just look at her design what did you expect

 

[Idon]

I'd say Cave Story is the archetypal indie success story, and above all one of my most favorite platformers, so I want him.

Also helps he looks phenomenal in Blade Strangers.

 

[Noipoi]

Like???????? If SHOVEL KNIGHT just gets to be an assist, why would ANYONE think that Shantae would be playable?????????

Because maybe, just maybe, people like the character and want to play as her.
Maybe, just maybe, people have hope because she has a bit of a history with Nintendo and has a chance even though it's a small one.
Maybe, just maybe, people have opinions that differ from yours and instead of insulting people you don't know by implying they only like a character because their sexy you should accept that.
No ones telling you to like the character, no one's saying Sjhovel Knight isn't popular. But you should stop acting like people who like Shantae are overzealous pervs.
Also, chill with the question marks.

 

[DevaAshera]

I literally have no idea why people get so defensive over these really mediocre platformers and really want her in Smash. Can you give me a reason why Shantae is better than Shovel Knight? Maybe I'll understand then.

Never said she was, it's all personal preference. The only non-personal reasoning would be having a series over a single game. I love Shovel Knight, I do, but it's still only 1 game plus expansions. I'd like to see if he has staying power before putting him in Smash.

You may believe Shantae is a mediocre series, but it's still getting new games and gaining more popularity..I'd also question if you've actually played one..but lying is as easy as telling the truth, so there's no way to tell.

As for getting defensive, you literally said the ignorant statement claiming fans of Shantae only like her for sexual reasons..its offensive and, as I said, ignorant. An Ad Hominem attack to attempt discrediting the opposition based on implied impurity.

People like him you just have to ignore and move on with your day. Nothing good can happen dealing with a pessimist like that.

Yeah..I know..but I just can't stand ignorance of that variety, I get it enough as a fan of Gardevoir, Tharja, and Camilla..

 

[DarkFalcon]

you say that like its a bad thing people get wild over her
just look at her design what did you expect

People can like what they like. It doesn't bother me, but after last page I feel like I need to make that clear.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Like???????? If SHOVEL KNIGHT just gets to be an assist, why would ANYONE think that Shantae would be playable?????????

Because we love her series of games, we think the idea of an indie rep in Smash would do wonders for the indie scene as a whole, and we think her longstanding legacy qualifies her, which is something that most of the new characters revealed so far have and Shovel Knight does not. How about you just calm down and chill for a bit, okay?

 

[blazefan519]

yet the only indie that showed up on the one infamous japan poll was ****ing sans

True but Undertale didn't become big until after the Smash ballot where I think a lot of her weight comes from. Plus Undertale isn't even on Switch yet kek.
Or maybe this was a joke and I shouldn't have answered it seriously

 

[Will]

Because we love her series of games, we think the idea of an indie rep in Smash would do wonders for the indie scene as a whole, and we think her longstanding legacy qualifies her, which is something that most of the new characters revealed so far have and Shovel Knight does not. How about you just calm down and chill for a bit, okay?

Gonna play devil's advocate: That doesn't really justify playability status.

Technically Minecraft Steve over here is the biggest boy in the bunch, not Shantae.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Gonna play devil's advocate: That doesn't really justify playability status.

Technically Minecraft Steve over here is the biggest boy in the bunch, not Shantae.

It may not to you, but it does to me and that's all that matters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Shantae bias lol. What world do you come from where Shantae is more popular than goddang Undertale

I don't. But then, I don't even consider Shantae to be an indy character. But by the same token, the idea that Quote is better known than Shantae is equally ridiculous.

uh my dude we literally have three shovel knight games, cave story has been released multiple times with changes, and undertale was literally the most popular game of the year it released. Shantae is a mediocre platforming series that is only popular with a very vocal minority. its less smash worthy than Bit.Trip is

No, you don't "literally" have three Shovel Knight games. You have 1 game with 2 DLC packs. And Quote is just sooooo popular they haven't made a second game for him after 14 years...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

HE **** WELL HAD BETTER!

I have no problem with him just getting a rehash of Triforce Slash - or a clone of Ike's - as long as he puts on the mask and becomes FD first.

It’d be for the best if Young Link doesn’t get a simple rehas without such an epic spin

 

[Zinith]

People support Shantae because they like her. End of story...

 

[blazefan519]

People support Shantae because they like her. End of story...

I don't know why that's so hard for people to believe. That's literally the case with ever character that people have wanted for Smash.

 

[Idon]

I don't. But then, I don't even consider Shantae to be an indy character. But by the same token, the idea that Quote is better known than Shantae is equally ridiculous.

I don't think anyone here holds that belief.

 

[Bionichute]

I don't. But then, I don't even consider Shantae to be an indy character. But by the same token, the idea that Quote is better known than Shantae is equally ridiculous.

Cave Story is one of the biggest successes in indie game history, I actually heard about it well before I knew that Shantae was even a thing. Most people who are into the indie scene know about Quote, probably more than Shantae.

 

[Nazyrus]

lol once again we are talking about "this guy is more popular than this guy" like it's a factor that actually affects anything… It's like what Scoliosis Jones posted pages ago didn't matter at all or people didn't even read it… Welp, I called it, people are making the SAME mistakes, all over again…

 

[DevaAshera]

Like???????? If SHOVEL KNIGHT just gets to be an assist, why would ANYONE think that Shantae would be playable?????????

Mostly because she's popular enough in Japan while Shovel Knight had a lukewarm reception there along with Shovel Knight not being released there until after the Ballot, so likely no one in Japan put in votes for him (few even knew who he was, see the infamous 'What's a Shovel Knight' line from the time of the Ballot) while Shantae had games released over, localized by co-developer Inti Creates, who also made the Mega Man Zero and Azure Striker Gunvolt games.

It's also down to the unpredictable Sakurai, he could decide he liked Shantae for a playable role more, or not at all..its always hard to guess what he'll do.

That said, no, I don't think Shantae will be in..I doubted she'd even appear..granted, I didn't think Shovel Knight would appear at all either..so yeah..

I'd say Cave Story is the archetypal indie success story, and above all one of my most favorite platformers, so I want him.

Also helps he looks phenomenal in Blade Strangers.

I agree, Cave Story is the iconic Indie Success Story and Qoute does look awesome in Blade Strangers.

 

[Blargg888]

Mega Charizard X is nowhere to be seen though.

So what though?

It's not like Mega Charizard X is a different character, it's literally just Charizard having Mega Evolved.

 

[Bionichute]

lol once again we are talking about "this guy is more popular than this guy" like it's a factor that actually affects anything… It's like what Scoliosis Jones posted pages ago didn't matter at all or people didn't even read it… Welp, I called it, people are making the SAME mistakes, all over again…

I'm not even talking about Smash context here, people are just saying pretty wrong statements about how important Shantae is

 

[DarthEnderX]

Cave Story is one of the biggest successes in indie game history, I actually heard about it well before I knew that Shantae was even a thing. Most people who are into the indie scene know about Quote, probably more than Shantae.

"most people who are into the indie scene" is not "most people" though. I'm talking about overall popularity. Not hipster popularity.

I don't think anyone here holds that belief.

I'm aware of that. But people who think WayForward is an indy developer have a ridiculously spacious definition of indy.

 

[Glaciacott]

Cave Story is one of the biggest successes in indie game history, I actually heard about it well before I knew that Shantae was even a thing. Most people who are into the indie scene know about Quote, probably more than Shantae.

I heard about Shantae years before I ever heard of Richter or Bayonetta.

But they are still in Smash and Shantae isn't. So this whole "I heard of x but not of y" is really not a useful argument to anyone.

 

[Bionichute]

"most people who are into the indie scene" is not "most people" though. I'm talking about overall popularity. Not hipster popularity.

Cave Story was popular for years, had articles run in magazines, and got popular right around the time Youtube and Lets Plays started to become popular. Shantae had a cult classic game on the GBC and then vanished for a decade. There's a pretty major difference.

A lot of people were introduced to the indie gaming scene via Cave Story. It isn't mainstream, but neither is Shantae

 

[Professor Lexicovermis]

Yeah, unlike Cave Story, Undertale, or Shovel Knight, Shantae is Popular and has a series of good games. Cave Story was a one off, Toby Fox implies Undertale is too (which, really, where is there to go anyway), and Shovel Knight still needs to show he won't be a one hit wonder.

Let's you and I have a talk. Shall we?

Cave Story is an iconic game. For a time, it was THE indie game. This game, made by one single man as a labor of love, essentially BEGAN the indie market as we know it. Cave Story codified "the indie game," and is extremely widely considered a classic (you are literally the first person I've seen imply it isn't a popular title). Quote has made numerous appearances throughout the years, and though the game's creator has shown no interest in a sequel, Cave Story continues to be released again and again even now, something not many older indies can boast. Cave Story is iconic enough that Quote could very feasibly ever be granted the honor of a slot in Smash.

Undertale lacks that history, but what it has is a staggeringly vast following. In its year of release it was one of the most popular games RELEASED. It has a poignant story and plays with meta elements in some fascinating ways. The fanbase is so widespread and pervasive that they have become a meme in their own right, more or less. The appearance of Sans and Papyrus alone in a Nintendo Direct was considered big enough to warrant its own "headline" rather than a slot in a sizzle reel. Undertale may not have icon status just yet, being young, but it is INARGUABLY popular.

Shovel Knight is an example of a Kickstarter campaign run amazingly well. Yacht Club Games have been extremely dedicated to fulfilling every single promise they have made, to the point that what were originally mere moveset swaps blossomed into separate titles; the extra campaigns are so massive they are LITERALLY considered and sold as distinct games. To claim they don't count as a new game is asinine and frankly disingenuous. The man himself quickly became a massively widespread indie icon, to the point he has made appearances in countless games, including Rivals of Aether and a little-known title called SUPER SMASH BROTHERS ULTIMATE. He also has the distinction of being the very first non-Nintendo-made amiibo figure, which is pretty notable in its own right.

Shantae is a platformer series that began on GBC. In the time since, it has done absolutely nil that is remotely comparable to the above games. Granted, she has made appearances in crossover titles as well, but her games are absolutely, objectively not as momentous as any of the aforementioned.

Bottom line. If Shovel Knight, one of the biggest poster boys of Nindies, can only appear as an Assist Trophy... Shantae stands no chance. Period.

Now does that mean don't support her? Of course not! Everyone is free to support who they want!

I'm only saying that to insinuate she's more popular than three massive icons is absurd.

 

[blackghost]

this shantae argument is funny.
replace shantae with bayonetta, zss, or any attractive female character and there's always one person projecting their own thoughts on others regarding what people are into.

shantae has 4 games. orginated in 2002. her style is cool, shes an energeti
c character with vast moveset potential and she has personality. i support shantae right there with elma.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

People support Shantae because they like her. End of story...

See I get that, hell I can get why people would support any character. But people seem to expect her quite a bit, and I'm also kind of confused by that.

Like supporting and expecting are different things. For example I support Rayman but I also don't think he's gettin in base.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'm going to miss transformation final smashes but, let's be really, they aren't really separate characters. Yeah they tend to be modified more heavily then some clones are, but you only control them for less then a minute and they're not really balanced at all. They're not meant to be. If there was some way to select a transformed character in the roster and just play as them, that'd be one thing. But in practice, they're just temporary power ups. Having the "everyone is here" slogan is still fine.

 

[DarkFalcon]

The conversation changed from people wanting Shantae only because they want to **** her, to Shovel Knight being an assist so how does Shantae have a chance, to what's considered more mainstream and known outside of Smash.

I sure do love radically changing arguments.

 

[DevaAshera]

I actually first heard of Shantae through Nintendo Power talking about the first game for Game Boy Color.

The conversation changed from people wanting Shantae only because they want to **** her, to Shovel Knight being an assist so how does Shantae have a chance, to what's considered more mainstream and known outside of Smash.

I sure do love radically changing arguments.

Next order of business, Salt. Tasty spice or destroyer of worlds. Go.

 

[blazefan519]

Cave Story is one of the biggest successes in indie game history, I actually heard about it well before I knew that Shantae was even a thing. Most people who are into the indie scene know about Quote, probably more than Shantae.

That isn't even an argument. I'd love to know how many people who were born in the 2000s knew about Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game and Watch. But oh wait, they're still in Smash.

I'm not even talking about Smash context here, people are just saying pretty wrong statements about how important Shantae is

And I'd love to see you bring up anything that isn't purely subjective and you don't pull facts from out of your rear end.

I actually first heard of Shantae through Nintendo Power talking about the first game for Game Boy Color.

Next order of business, Salt. Tasty spice or destroyer of worlds. Go.

I first heard her through some kind of commercial of Risky's Revenge for ios and DS Lite. I was very confused but looked into her game series and fell in love.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'll be surprised to see any Indie characters get in as fighters at this point, especially those from third parties. Shovel Knight being an Assist Trophy was a very pleasant surprise.

One of these days I'm sure that's gonna be some new ground that will be broken. But I don't think it's likely to happen this time around.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Cave Story was popular for years, had articles run in magazines, and got popular right around the time Youtube and Lets Plays started to become popular. Shantae had a cult classic game on the GBC and then vanished for a decade. There's a pretty major difference.

Shantae actually came back?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm going to miss transformation final smashes but, let's be really, they aren't really separate characters. Yeah they tend to be modified more heavily then some clones are, but you only control them for less then a minute and they're not really balanced at all. They're not meant to be. If there was some way to select a transformed character in the roster and just play as them, that'd be one thing. But in practice, they're just temporary power ups. Having the "everyone is here" slogan is still fine.

Don’t worry, we still have transformation final smashes...just no longer playable

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'll be surprised to see any Indie characters get in as fighters at this point, especially those from third parties. Shovel Knight being an Assist Trophy was a very pleasant surprise.

One of these days I'm sure that's gonna be some new ground that will be broken. But I don't think it's likely to happen this time around.

Yea I'm not really expecting any Indie's as playable, but even being in the game is a huge honor. Shovel Knight making it as an assist is crazy. The developers are definitely happy he's in one of the biggest games Nintendo has.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Don’t worry, we still have transformation final smashes...just no longer playable

...I was jumping in on a conversation about that, actually. I was specifically referring to them no longer being playable.

 

[blazefan519]

See I get that, hell I can get why people would support any character. But people seem to expect her quite a bit, and I'm also kind of confused by that.

Like supporting and expecting are different things. For example I support Rayman but I also don't think he's gettin in base.

People are expecting her? Me personally I think she has a higher chance now that Shovel Knight is out of the mix but I definitely don't expect her. I don't expect any characters, maybe besides Inkling.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Being hopeful for a character and expecting them are two different things. Sometimes people mix those up.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't expect any characters, maybe besides Inkling.

Maybe?

You...think they might not make it in?