Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

All square properties as options would be Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Bouncer, Parasite Eve, Bushido Blade, Romancing Saga, Secret of Evermore, The Mana series, Brave Fencer Musashi, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Xenogears, Alcahest, Breath of Fire, too many
More.

Breath of Fire is Capcom, though Square did publish the first game in America...

 

[---]

But the thing is? If you add them, but you don't add Geno. You get a lot of Geno fans saying ''K Rool and Ridley fans go their wish.", but if you add Geno? You have fans of other FF icons, DragonQuest icons, Sora, Lara Croft, etc going ''Why not them instead?"

I'm sure "insert already de-confirmed character" fans will enjoy the company. You will never be able to please everyone. Just don't be harassing Sakurai on social media.

 

[Nazyrus]

Sakurai is in a weird place with more Square Enix representation beyond Cloud.

He's got a tall order to fill with the long standing Geno request, but there are a few of other iconic franchises and characters that slide into the Smash world that are going to capture a certain mass attention Geno won't.

But the thing is? If you add them, but you don't add Geno. You get a lot of Geno fans saying ''K Rool and Ridley fans go their wish.", but if you add Geno? You have fans of other FF icons, DragonQuest icons, Sora, Lara Croft, etc going ''Why not them instead?"

Can't please everyone just like superman can't save everyone… Sakurai must know this, the bigger his crossover game becomes.

 

[Enchess]

I’m new to the forums so excuse me if I’m doing something wrong. I’m just curious what newcomers everyone is expecting right now. I read something regarding Ken from vergeben, and I previously heard Isabelle has a good chance of being an echo fighter. Are there any leaks/rumors going around?

Nah, you're good.

I'm thinking our remaining unique newcomers are Skull Kid, Isaac, Mio(or Yuri), and Banjo, but I can be a bit of a contrarian, so don't trust anything I predict lol (although Ridley and K Rool were the two I was most confident in, so maybe I'm onto something)

I don't really want SK or Banjo (although wouldn't mind either) so I don't feel like I'm just doing wishful thinking. I buy into the chairs and Rathalos theories, as loose as they are. Mio is just a gut-feeling based on (almost) nothing. Banjo is the #1 third party I can (1) see Nintendo holding onto the announcement of this long, (2) consider a potential top ballot contender, and (3) see Sakurai considering worthy in both terms of Nintendo history and general gaming history.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Also just how many Square Reps would be too much? Geno, Sora (soughta), FF characters, Lara Croft, dragon quest, chrono O.O

There characters get requested frequently; I wonder how Square feels

Isn't Dragon Quest Square too? I wouldn't be surprised if they added the protag from the first Dragon Quest.
EDIT: I'm an idiot and didn't see you say Dragon Quest. I think that's my cue to go to sleep.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Isn't Dragon Quest Square too? I wouldn't be surprised if they added the protag from the first Dragon Quest.

That makes me wonder

Did he specifically say Square, and not Square-Enix because it's shorter and easier

Or is it a Square character and not an Enix character

 

[Zinith]

Eight is probably the most recognizable Dragon Quest protagonist tbh

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Disney does have the final say in Sora though; that is true.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Eight is probably the most recognizable Dragon Quest protagonist tbh

I don't think that goes for Japan though. And his popularity in Japan would matter more

In the west it's 8, but not Japan

 

[Enchess]

Eight is probably the most recognizable Dragon Quest protagonist tbh

Let me be a test subject for this as someone who always wants to try DQ but never gets around to it:

Guy with red bandana and orange coat thingy? He's the one who seems most iconic to me, as a non-DQ fan. No idea if that's Eight or not

 

[lizard1929]

In regards to Square Enix character representation:
- We most likely got cloud in as advertisement for the remake and getting his name back into gamer eyes (and nostalgia).
- Geno being given smash 4 outfit helps him a lot (Not a guarantee) as it show Square Enix is open to the idea of letting him live in the Nintendo community.
- Sora represents Disney who will want to keep there image so he is unlikely as you have to work with both square and Disney (Not impossible).

 

[perfectchaos83]

Let me be a test subject for this as someone who always wants to try DQ but never gets around to it:

Guy with red bandana and orange coat thingy? He's the one who seems most iconic to me, as a non-DQ fan. No idea if that's Eight or not

You're right, That's 8. The more iconic character, on Japan's side, is Roto/Erdrick.

 

[Zinith]

Let me be a test subject for this as someone who always wants to try DQ but never gets around to it:

Guy with red bandana and orange coat thingy? He's the one who seems most iconic to me, as a non-DQ fan. No idea if that's Eight or not

That's the one, the protagonist of Dragon Quest VIII lol. That game tends to be the entry point for new players, although the upcoming Dragon Quest XI might change that idk...

 

[Deleted member]

I agreed with Godzilla's point on this, but can't agree with yours. (a) The Metroid Screw Attack item (a permanent suit upgrade) debuted with Samus not after her. (b) this assumes Lip's moveset a bit too much. maybe she would only use the stick for B-moves for all we know. (c) she is weilding the Screw Attack item, you just don't see it reflected visually on her suit, just like it Metroid. If you asked anyone before the distinct Smash Screw Attack item was introduced if Samus weilds the Screw Attack in Smash during her Up-B they'd say yes

The Screw Attack technique debuted in Smash itself. Not the actual item that gives her that ability.
Aside from that you are missing the point entirely.
The point is Samus was already a character before the item debuted. Said item just being a badge (or holdable orb) that can make a player imitate her technique.
Her Arm Cannon wasn't an equipable item for players to use while she wasn't in the game herself, only for her to be in a later game with said item still being present.


And are you seriously trying to argue that Lip could just not use her own weapon for her moves except Specials?
Like, she fights barehanded and just pulls out her stick for some moves?
Do you not realize how asinine that sounds? How the HELL would she even fight without it?



The Screw Attack is not, never was, nor ever will be, a valid counterpoint. No matter how many Lip fans say it is.

 

[Dee Dude]

Sora technically being a Disney character means nothing since he’s still foremost a video game originated character, the only obstacle he has imo is how stingy Square, Nomura, and Disney will all be...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I’m new to the forums so excuse me if I’m doing something wrong. I’m just curious what newcomers everyone is expecting right now. I read something regarding Ken from vergeben, and I previously heard Isabelle has a good chance of being an echo fighter. Are there any leaks/rumors going around?

Vergeben is the guy people are mostly listening to now as most of his previous predictions have come true, and he's saying Isabelle, Ken, a Gen 7 Pokémon that isn't Decidueye or Lycanroc, and another Square Enix character. He says he doesn't know whether Isabelle is an echo or not.

Loz18 is another guy who got so many things right pre-E3, and in great detail, but it looks like he's gone off the deep end and is making the most of the attention he's getting. I don't really trust him anymore, and I think most around here don't either, but he's said that Skull Kid is probably in.

As far as the most expected characters in general go on this forum, they're the ones mentioned above, plus Geno (probably the Square Enix character), Isaac, Dixie Kong, Shadow, Bandana Dee, and to a somewhat lesser extend Banjo, Elma, Impa and a Rhythm Heaven character.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Speaking of items and badges, it's kind of weird enemies in Earthbound even have electric attacks after you get the Franklin Badge

 

[Captain Fun]

Real talk, as unlikely as it would be, I'd love to see Dragon Quest V's hero (sometimes referred as Abel) as a character.

In addition to the usual swords and spells, DQV's main innovation to the battle system was allowing the player to recruit defeated monsters as party members.

I honestly think that there's potential there.

 

[Enchess]

The Screw Attack technique debuted in Smash itself. Not the actual item that gives her that ability.
Aside from that you are missing the point entirely.
The point is Samus was already a character before the item debuted. Said item just being a badge (or holdable orb) that can make a player imitate her technique.


And are you seriously trying to argue that Lip could just not use her own weapon for her moves except Specials?
Like, she fights barehanded and just pulls out her stick for some moves?
Do you not realize how asinine that sounds? How the HELL would she even fight without it?



The Screw Attack is not, never was, nor ever will be, a valid counterpoint. No matter how many Lip fans say it is.

How the hell does Samus do the Screw Attack technique without the Screw Attack item, something she needs to do the techniques in the Metroid games? If you saw my predictions, I don't think Lip is getting in, but I think it's jumping the gun a bit to say Lip's Stick is full deconfirmation.

I just don't see any compelling reason why Lip couldn't exist simultaneously with the Lip's Stick item even if she uses her stick for literally every move. As some Lip fans have pointed out to me, it's not the only flower wand thing she's ever been shown to use. There's more than one in that universe (apparently. All my knowledge comes off lurking in that support thread)

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Square is getting a new rep in smash (allegedly), it was suppose to be Geno but he mysteriously disappeared... wait what's that sound?

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, I'm set it's Geno.


If we're not getting another new IP, since I'm now fully on board with 103 being the final stage total...


The character would either have to be from Final Fantasy 7(Since that's what the FF logo stands for in Smash), or Geno.



I was wondering 'why' they'd save Incineroar as the last reveal since Incineroar just isn't hype at all.... and then Geno.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah, I'm set it's Geno.


If we're not getting another new IP, since I'm now fully on board with 103 being the final stage total...


The character would either have to be from Final Fantasy 7(Since that's what the FF logo stands for in Smash), or Geno.



I was wondering 'why' they'd save Incineroar as the last reveal since Incineroar just isn't hype at all.... and then Geno.

The last reveal of Smash 4 was Duck Hunt, remember

 

[Shroob]

The last reveal of Smash 4 was Duck Hunt, remember

To be fair, none of Smash4's reveals really were on par with Ridley or K.Rool.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Except for Mega Man. That was super hype

 

[DevaAshera]

For Dragon Quest protagonists, I'd honestly like the Dragon Quest IV Hero/Heroine..then I can have another female character in.

I dunno man, I feel like a whole lot less people remember/know of SMRPG than we think.

Like most of Europe, who didn't get Super Mario RPG until the Wii Virtual Console port.

To be fair, none of Smash4's reveals really were on par with Ridley or K.Rool.

Mega Man's was..and Cloud's definitely was if we're counting DLC.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

To be fair, none of Smash4's reveals really were on par with Ridley or K.Rool.

We forgetting Cloud?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Disney CEO guy or someone of significant importance (I remember hearing CEO) said they won't even consider Sora unless Square signed off it, then they would consider what the fans want and the best way possible to maintain Sora image if they considered it.

That is why I said sorta. If Square Teatsura Nomura denies Sora in Smash; Disney is not even considering it.

I don't even want to begin if Sakurai would even want to deal with Disney though.

So... let me get this straight. It takes two companies that are infamously hard to work with to agree on how said character I presented within a game before it's even considered? Yeesh, I think Sora is really unlikely then.

 

[Shroob]

We forgetting Cloud?

I wasn't going to compare the DLC to the base game.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

We forgetting Cloud?

Cloud kind of soured for me because of the Geno mii costume.

And because I never played FF7. I didn't have a playstation until FF9 was out, which was the first Playstation game I bought. I bought 8 shortly after

But FF7's graphics looks absolutely horrible compared to FF9 so I didn't get it

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

We forgetting Cloud?

Mega Man was a pretty damn big one too

 

[Blargg888]

How the hell does Samus do the Screw Attack technique without the Screw Attack item, something she needs to do the techniques in the Metroid games?

By pressing Up and B.

Kinda like how Mario and Luigi can shoot fireballs without the Fire Flower.

Or how Robin can use Nosferatu without being a Dark Mage.

And how Olimar can pluck Pikmin without growing them from an Onion first.

This is Smash, not Metroid.

The rules in the characters' home games don't apply here.

 

[DevaAshera]

So... let me get this straight. It takes two companies that are infamously hard to work with to agree on how said character I presented within a game before it's even considered? Yeesh, I think Sora is really unlikely then.

Actually, Disney defers all Sora decisions to Tetsuya Nomura, not Square-Enix..it leaves all Kingdom Hearts decisions period to him.
That's what the Disney Japan COO was saying.
However, Nomura is a perfectionist and likes to be in control, very much like Sakurai does...though Sakurai at least finishes his games in a timely manner, unlike Nomura.

 

[Zinith]

Dark Pit really didn't get a proper reveal announcement (he was merely teased in Palutena's trailer). That makes him the only newcomer from Smash 4 to not get one as Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt got ones after the fact

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Actually, Disney defers all Sora decisions to Tetsuya Nomura, not Square-Enix..it leaves all Kingdom Hearts decisions period to him.
That's what the Disney Japan COO was saying.

Does that one person speak for all of the Disney company?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

So... let me get this straight. It takes two companies that are infamously hard to work with to agree on how said character I presented within a game before it's even considered? Yeesh, I think Sora is really unlikely then.

Well yes, Disney is extremely conservative in how they deal with licensing their characters. There was a famous incident concerning something very simple with Mickey Mouse lol. It's always about an image and of course money.

 

[The_Intruder]

The last reveal of Smash 4 was Duck Hunt, remember

We are not in the wii U era anymore, it's honestly not a good thing to base expectation on this title who was splitted in two games with cut all over the place and a console that nobody care about.
I'm not sure nintendo will be ok if the communication about smash ends with characters that is not publicly popular. This game could be one of the most expensive game with many third party involved, they will want to sell tons of smash for being profitable.

Sakurai want to please fans is one thing but there is still business behind it , remember Nintendo allowed him to do it.

 

[DevaAshera]

Does that one person speak for all of the Disney company?

He was speaking as a representative of the Walt Disney Company at an official Disney event (D20 Expo in Japan) and discussing how they approached Kingdom Hearts decisions, even saying they would have no problem with Sora in Smash if Sakurai, Nomura, and the fans wanted it, so yes, yes he does.

Disney Co. most likely let's Disney JP handle everything relating to Kingdom Hearts, of which this individual was the COO, much like Reggie is COO of NoA.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

He was speaking as a representative of the Walt Disney Company and how they approached Kingdom Hearts decisions, so yes, yes he does.

I don't think it's as simple as you believe

Edit: I'm not going to say Sora's not in. I just don't believe it's that simple

 

[Shroob]

That, and, let's humor the idea that there are ONLY going to be 103 stages in the game, no more.


Every 3rd party character not an echo has come with a stage. This could change, but let's be real, it's unlikely that they get a 3rd party character without a home stage.


What are our options when dealing with Square?


Because if it has to be a character who isn't from a new IP, it can literally only be a Final Fantasy 7 character, or from an existing franchise.


So either Zach/Sephiroth, both of which I 'guess' are possible.... or Geno.

 

[papagenos]

Speaking of videos

papagenos needs to see this and make a video on it

Potentially Geno news

thanks for the heads up!