Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

Isn't DQ MASSIVE in Japan? I'm honestly shocked there hasn't been a rep before

Very massive.
Slime, the mascot, probably is only beaten by Pikachu in terms of sheer marketability.
So popular in fact that every single console always has a Japan exclusive Slime special edition.

 

[SirCamp]

-Series is niche in the west (pretty much every third party in Smash has some sort of global popularity)
-Lacks a compelling, popular character that everyone could rally behind to be playable in Smash (not Slime, that's for sure)
-Practically no demand either in Japan or elsewhere for a Dragon Quest character

The only reason you could say a DQ character is likely is because the series is popular in Japan, which so far, has not given us Monster Hunter as a fighter.

Beyond popularity, it is a very influential and important series to gaming in general. Or at least to the JRPG genre. That alone is something that I think should qualify it's potential representation. It just seems like something Sakurai would appreciate, but who knows. Also I think the supposed lack of popularity in the west is overstated. It's certainly not super popular or on the level of Final Fantasy, but I would definitely not call it niche.

 

[Luigi The President]

Man if Geno gets beaten out by a DQ rep I shudder to think of what this fanbase will react like.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The only thing is, there is no Dragon Quest character in ballot research that did significant on the polls

 

[Thirdkoopa]

for Dragon Quest, Erdrick or Abel/Lucas (Dragon Quest V), imo

 

[Smearglangelo]

I don't see why Slime can't be a 3rd party newcomer. He's iconic to the point that he's recognizable to those who aren't familiar with Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest itself is a popular series that has had many outings on Nintendo consoles, and there are many types of Slimes and Monsters that Slime can borrow moves from (Much like Ness and Lucas borrow moves from the "Black Mages" of their respective games).

 

[HyruleHero]

lol everyone dismisses Dragon Quest as a possibility and honestly I can't fathom why. I think it's actually a very compelling, and frankly likely, option for a new character from Square

can you name a Dragon Quest characters name (probably not Erdrick though because his name comes up a lot in the smashboards and he is only in DQ3 from 1988)?
DQ is popular in Japan but it hasnt done well overseas.
Ive only played DQ9 where you make your own character (side note this is an amazing game)
all the other DQ games you have a character that you don't make I only know like 2 of the characters names just because you could get their weapons in DQ9.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I think Geno scored higher than any of the Dragon Quest characters tbh

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If it's a Dragon Quest character it's going to be Erdrick and Slime will probably make a cameo in his taunts or moveset

 

[DarkFalcon]

I do think Vergeben has sources but it's still humorous to me that anytime he speaks forums stop everything and talk about him, and YouTubers make videos about him. I'm not the least bit surprised that he likes attention. He can breathe and gain everyone's attention.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Is it weird that I did a text impersonation of Zinith talking about Yoshi and feel worried he hasn’t responded? Like, I don’t wanna offend my boi. I feel like he would find me, egg me, roll into my legs and drop his ass on me while I’m down just to show me what’s up. And I mostly don’t want that.

 

[SirCamp]

Eh I don't take our own ballot research to seriously. Particularly the data that people have tried to gather from Japan. And beyong that, while I agree that the ballot is a major factor this time, I don't think it will be the only one. I think Elma still has a chance as well, for a couple reasons, but I very much doubt she would have gotten in due to ballot popularity.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't see why Slime can't be a 3rd party newcomer. He's iconic to the point that he's recognizable to those who aren't familiar with Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest itself is a popular series that has had many outings on Nintendo consoles, and there are many types of Slimes and Monsters that Slime can borrow moves from (Much like Ness and Lucas borrow moves from the "Black Mages" of their respective games).

While it's not impossible, Slime isn't really playable. You'd be much better off having a DQ character use Slime in their moveset

Besides, Slime's popular, but a "Cool" looking DQ character could be used for advertising

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Speaking of videos

papagenos needs to see this and make a video on it

Potentially Geno news

 

[ZephyrZ]

I find it interesting to compare the renders of Mewtwo between Pokken and Smash Ultimate.
They're vastly different takes on the character which I both love

Spoiler: Pokken

Spoiler: Smash Ultimate

Smash Ultimate's Mewtwo looks really small with rounded with simple colors. It's kinda cute, really and it fits with his original watercolor art from Gen 1. While it's strong-looking, it feels like something you could catch if you tried hard enough.

... Pokken's Mewtwo looks FLIPPING EVIL. Like, you really could believe that this alien creature could just wipe out an island with just his mind, or just straight up punch you into space. ****'s menacing as all hell.

While something always seems off to Pokken's renders to me, I love seeing the pokemon move in action. I used to hate both of Mewtwo's Mega forms until that game taught me just how awesome its X form could be.

I think the main difference is that while Smash and main series Pokemon go for a cartoonish, anime-esque design, Pokken attempts to imagine what these pokemon would look like in real life. Mewtwo is a freak of nature who'd be terrifying if he was real, just stuck with somewhat cutesy art-style (which I still love btw).

I really ought to play Pokken more often.

 

[vaanrose]

The only thing is, there is no Dragon Quest character in ballot research that did significant on the polls

I'd say it's likely DQ had the same issue Final Fantasy had, where the votes were split between the various different leads.

 

[StormC]

Beyond popularity, it is a very influential and important series to gaming in general. Or at least to the JRPG genre. That alone is something that I think should qualify it's potential representation. It just seems like something Sakurai would appreciate, but who knows. Also I think the supposed lack of popularity in the west is overstated. It's certainly not super popular or on the level of Final Fantasy, but I would definitely not call it niche.

Dragon Quest is pretty niche in the west. The title is fairly recognizable to gamers, but not a lot have played it. Have any DQ games sold a million here?

 

[Oddbaum21]

But...but...Chikorita. Bayleaf. Meganium. They are all 10/10 designs. Sceptiles tail also weirds me out like crazy

But what about Typhlosion and Samurott?

 

[SirCamp]

can you name a Dragon Quest characters name (probably not Erdrick though because his name comes up a lot in the smashboards and he is only in DQ3 from 1988)?
DQ is popular in Japan but it hasnt done well overseas.
Ive only played DQ9 where you make your own character (side note this is an amazing game)
all the other DQ games you have a character that you don't make I only know like 2 of the characters names just because you could get their weapons in DQ9.

Probably Trodain from DQ 8. The game did rather well in the West I thought. I doubt he would be the character chosen if there was one though.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

The power of the Smash fanbase, get a character whose appeared once in an rpg from 1996 in over a rep of the jrpg genre's most classic franchise.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Just want to mention that Sakurai has previously gone on record that he has considered Geno and Heihachi, meaning these are picks he likes. If Square and Bamco get 2 more characters, they'd likely be the 2 he has wanted in the game already.

 

[Idon]

While something always seems off to Pokken's renders to me, I love seeing the pokemon move in action. I used to hate both of Mewtwo's Mega forms until that game taught me just how awesome its X form could be.

I think the main difference is that while Smash and main series Pokemon go for a cartoonish, anime-esque design, Pokken attempts to imagine what these pokemon would look like in real life. Mewtwo is a freak of nature who'd be terrifying if he was real, just stuck with somewhat cutesy art-style (which I still love btw).

I really ought to play Pokken more often.

Lol, Pokken even made stretchy arms look cool.

 

[Wambo]

We didn't hear anything about K.Rool before his announcement, and Ridley was just a lucky guess. I'm sure if Geno is in, he's a heavily guarded secret as well.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What is "real life" about Blastoise doing backflips?

 

[Luigi The President]

All I'm saying is that Geno can take his sorry ass right outta Ultimate if he doesn't have this song come with him.
This one specifically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECv7i-6bChI

(just kidding I really want him I miss my little boy)

 

[N3ON]

We didn't hear anything about K.Rool before his announcement, and Ridley was just a lucky guess. I'm sure if Geno is in, he's a heavily guarded secret as well.

People know things, they just don't share them.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

We didn't hear anything about K.Rool before his announcement, and Ridley was just a lucky guess. I'm sure if Geno is in, he's a heavily guarded secret as well.

Or the characters themselves make them leak proof.

How many millions of people have "leaked" K.Rool, Geno, and Ridley since before Sm4sh? Since before BRAWL even.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd say it's likely DQ had the same issue Final Fantasy had, where the votes were split between the various different leads.

Divide and conquer! The oldest strategy in the book!

 

[ZephyrZ]

What is "real life" about Blastoise doing backflips?

I was talking about their appearances, not abilities. They go full-out anime when it comes to that.

 

[Enchess]

But what about Typhlosion and Samurott?

I was just responding to the "best grass starter". Although, as far as water goes, Wartortle and Primarina are my favorite single forms with Samurott being my favorite family. On fire, I absolutely adore Cyndaquil, like Charizard, and don't really like any families as a whole, so I guess I gotta go Charizard family because it's my favorite 3rd form fire starter.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

We didn't hear anything about K.Rool before his announcement, and Ridley was just a lucky guess. I'm sure if Geno is in, he's a heavily guarded secret as well.

if it's sora, i imagine it's being guarded like crazy.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I've only played a bit of SMRPG, so can someone explain what makes Geno so special? He seemed pretty generic when I was playing. His design is unique and he could have interesting moves, but I don't get what made him beloved by so many.

 

[N3ON]

if it's sora, i imagine it's being guarded like crazy.

If it's Sora, you'd also have more parties than usual privy to the information.

 

[Luigi The President]

You would think Simon Belmont would be guarded, too.

No real way to tell at this point who's considered that valuable.

 

[DevaAshera]

I don't see why Slime can't be a 3rd party newcomer. He's iconic to the point that he's recognizable to those who aren't familiar with Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest itself is a popular series that has had many outings on Nintendo consoles, and there are many types of Slimes and Monsters that Slime can borrow moves from (Much like Ness and Lucas borrow moves from the "Black Mages" of their respective games).

Mostly his lack of limbs to grab & hold items, characters, ledges, etc.

 

[SirCamp]

Here's the deal, even if we accept that Dragon Quest is somewhat niche in the West (I still don't think niche is the right word, but whatever), I don't think the series to be discounted like it does. Not every character is going to be hugely popular in the West and I think to expect that is a little silly and at worst Western centric. Sakurai has brought up not wanting to add a character that no body knows in the West in the past, like Takamaru, but I think DQ has a different situation. Because even if they don't recognize the character itself immediately most Western gamers will recognize the series itself and many will even understand its importance. The character would still have context for Western gamers, which I think is the biggest issue a niche Japanese series would potentially face.

Truly though, I think the series' legacy to gaming history is important enough to see its inclusion. We'll see in time is Sakurai agrees.

 

[Pizzanigs]

So are we back to believing Vergeben?

Wait, have I missed something? Why have we ever stopped believing him?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

...why not Geno?
I just gotta ask.

Because...**** I forgot about him

It's not going to be a Final Fantasy Character unless they are from FF7

The icon in Smash specifically states it's FF7 and the website also has Cloud specifically as a representative of FF7

They could give each FF a seperate icon. By why? Also why would FF7 get the FF symbol instead of the meteor?

Well Bayonetta has the 2nd game’s logo representing her, so I assume those two have a specific logo to represent their origin and/or most recent appearance...though idk I’m just guessing...also note how I never said a name for any FF character

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You would think Simon Belmont would be guarded, too.

No real way to tell at this point who's considered that valuable.

The fact he got out actually made me more excited for Richter though. That blew my mind.

 

[DarkFalcon]

if it's sora, i imagine it's being guarded like crazy.

I could 100% see Sora only because SE can see it as marketing for Kingdom Hearts 3.

But I'm always confused because people always say "SE owns Sora...no wait, Disney does!"