Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Banjo & Kazooie didn't get a Mii Fighter costume either.

I think that's for obvious reasons...

Uh yeah that's a third party character. A third party Sakurai wasn't working with at the time. Hence no Konami costumes either.

Isaac is a Nintendo property that, if we think of the Mii costumes as consolation prizes which most people do, could easily have been made a costume (again, would fit perfectly over Swordfighter).

That's it, this is my reasoning for not predicting Isaac. that and I never cared for him lol

 

[SonicMario]

You’re right on Tails and Viridi. But, they reused assets and may have just left them in the demo build to keep us off a trail.

Wow, that sounds way more conspiracy theory than expected.
Anyways, that makes 4 basically deconfirmed(didn’t change from last game as of demo build).
The rest are still something to watch.

I wonder if Sakurai made the costumes to see which costumes were bought most...as maybe a ballot confirming strategy?

I wouldn't say Tails is deconfirmed yet. The GHZ stage is old, been there since Brawl and it's only faithful to the stage that those cameos return (When there was no way a 2nd Sonic character was getting in Brawl since Sonic himself was exciting enough). Knuckles is still there despite also being an Assist Trophy (Meaning it's possible for the Assist and Knuckles to appear in the background at the same time. Though it will take some serious RNG luck to get it to happen). Silver won't get anything new of the characters going in the loop being rather an unpopular character. But Tails got a Mii costume along with Knuckles (Who got an upgrade from just a stage cameo to that returning plus the Assist Trophy) and most noticably the mii costume is something Tails got while currently most expected Sonic newcomer (Most likely due to echo fighters though to be frank) Shadow did not.

Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow were probably the Top 3 Sonic characters in the ballot (No way to tell which ranked higher though). Shadow and Knuckles getting upgrades while Tails is left with nothing more then he got in Smash 4 would be odd. (Though maybe leaves him open as DLC if that is the case in the base game)

 

[DarkFalcon]

I can't believe we live in a timeline where Shadow feels like a near guarantee and Ridley and K. Rool are in the game.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I keep saying nobody actually loved the gameplay of Subspace. It was a worse Adventure mode, but with bosses (which were the best thing about it gameplay wise). What people ACTUALLY want are cutscenes. We can have a mode that's exactly like Subspace but plays better, bosses and all, but if there's no cutscenes people will complain, because that's what people really want.

Yeah, and by extension it's also the crossover potential, people love to see characters from different universes interact and clash with each other. And that's also really cool, there were some really fun teamups and interactions, but I don't really think people actually sit down and think about the issues it brings with it.

One is the gameplay like you said which just wasn't very fun, you basically just went about and spammed whatever multi-hit move your character had and rushed towards the end of the level. The Great Maze was a bit more fun due to the Metroidvania style map and finding all the different characters you could then use afterwards, but it was still only decent at best. In terms of level design the entire mode offered nothing special at all and I can see why it was compared to a mediocre Kirby game as a result, it just felt bare bones and with very little flavor in that regard, and with the idea being that you can go through stages later with every character it means they were very limited in what they could do.

Another issue is how in the world they would be able to juggle 70+ characters in a story, even with a roster of 35 characters some characters got shafted or were outright not even part of the story, now try and double that and do anything meaningful with each and every one of them. Because of the ever growing roster SSE kinda feels like it was a one-time deal, it happened at the right moment where it was just about still feasible to pull it off, but has long since passed that threshold.

 

[RandomAce]

I can't believe we live in a timeline where Shadow feels like a near guarantee and Ridley and K. Rool are in the game.

I kind of hope Shadow doesn’t happen. But that’s just me.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can't believe we live in a timeline where Shadow feels like a near guarantee and Ridley and K. Rool are in the game.

I wouldn't exactly say that Shadow is guaranteed, but as long as the Assist Trophy hammer doesn't get him, there is hope.

 

[Noipoi]

I can't believe we live in a timeline where Shadow feels like a near guarantee and Ridley and K. Rool are in the game.

It's not "a" world.
It's his world.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I kind of hope Shadow doesn’t happen. But that’s just me.

I do. I don't care what people feel Shadow represents for the franchise or if he's "edgy". I grew up with a lot of 3D Sonic and Sonic Adventure 2 being one of my favorite games of all time. The only time they got ridiculous with Shadow was in his one title game.

 

[RileyXY1]

I wouldn't say Tails is deconfirmed yet. The GHZ stage is old, been there since Brawl and it's only faithful to the stage that those cameos return (When there was no way a 2nd Sonic character was getting in Brawl since Sonic himself was exciting enough). Knuckles is still there despite also being an Assist Trophy (Meaning it's possible for the Assist and Knuckles to appear in the background at the same time. Though it will take some serious RNG luck to get it to happen). Silver won't get anything new of the characters going in the loop being rather an unpopular character. But Tails got a Mii costume along with Knuckles (Who got an upgrade from just a stage cameo to that returning plus the Assist Trophy) and most noticably the mii costume is something Tails got while currently most expected Sonic newcomer (Most likely due to echo fighters though to be frank) Shadow did not.

Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow were probably the Top 3 Sonic characters in the ballot (No way to tell which ranked higher though). Shadow and Knuckles getting upgrades while Tails is left with nothing more then he got in Smash 4 would be odd. (Though maybe leaves him open as DLC if that is the case in the base game)

Yeah. Especially since Tails is the secondary protagonist of the Sonic games and is one of gaming's most iconic sidekicks. Him getting nothing while Knuckles and Shadow get upgrades will be odd, especially considering Tails got a Mii Fighter costume.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I actually rather liked the gameplay of SSE, overall at least.

What was most disappointing to me were the bland level designs and especially aesthetics, the enemies being largely original (however creative they were, it's still a Nintendo crossover game; more enemies outside of Koopa Troop mooks and some R.O.B.s would've been better, in addition to some of the original mooks like Primids. It seems the devs took note of that and eventually fulfilled it in Smash Run) and, well, the story......because sometimes the lack of dialogue worked in it's favor, but plenty of other times, it worked against it.

I don't know how likely a story mode is at this point (I wouldn't get my hopes up) but if it were done better, I'd happily welcome one in Ultimate.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I wouldn't exactly say that Shadow is guaranteed, but as long as the Assist Trophy hammer doesn't get him, there is hope.

I said feels like, not is. Nobody is a guarantee. Just saying to me Shadow feels really likely all things considered.

 

[N3ON]

Shout-out to Richter for making me amenable to Shadow and Ken.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I can't believe we live in a timeline where Shadow feels like a near guarantee and Ridley and K. Rool are in the game.

This game is wacky that way haha.

I never expected Shadow to have a shot until Ultimate's reveal and i've been on the train to have my two favorite Sonic characters together in Smash since.

 

[DarkFalcon]

With Sakurai confirming what we thought with the ballot being looked at, I'm just browsing support threads and a lot of people feel their character is super likely now in various threads. I'm gonna feel kinda bad for those that don't get their character.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

With Sakurai confirming what we thought with the ballot being looked at, I'm just browsing support threads and a lot of people feel their character is super likely now in various threads. I'm gonna feel kinda bad for those that don't get their character.

Dreams will be realized and crushed... The only difference is it'll be even harsher.

I felt really bad for Ashley's supporters when she was just casually shown like she was.

 

[Onua]

Viridi has already be deconfirmed which just leaves Medusa, Magnus, Hades and Phosphora
Also her being shown in the background isnt throwing ppl off the trail, shes just legit deconfirmed lmfao
Pyrosphere is missing now that ridley is playable. Spirit tracks has a toon link in a completely different outfit from the one in smash and hes a totally different char cause its the ST Link and not the WW Link

When it comes to Kid Icarus
Medusa works INSANELY well as an echo of Palu. She uses legit all of Palus specials from smash in her boss fight.
Phosphora I dont see happening since shes barely in uprising
Magnus I also dont see happening. He works better as an AT
Hades would need to be a completely new character

I bet you we will get Hades or Medusa tho.




Also everytime I see these "Well they wouldnt work as an echo!" for chars like black knight, and Dixie. Holy hecc. Just look at Dark Samus, Daisy and Chrom LOL. Dixie works fine just make her up b a twirl. Black Knight is canonically faster than Ike and is one of the fastest units in his game and in cutscenes moves faster than ike. Just edit a few animtions like dark samus had (just the flip on ikes double jump) and give him a warp and youre done.

When it comes to echoes rn the MOST realistic choics are Medusa, Black Knight, Dixie, Isabelle, Ken and Shadow. Those 6 are the front runners of who is the most likely and most logical to be added next. All of them fit their original character perfectly and are very very very similar to their original counterpart.
Medusa = Palutenas twisted evil sister, same build and weapon and also uses divine magic. Uses straight up palus specials in her boss fight.
Black Knight = Trained with Ikes dad. Both have the same fighting style in canon. Uses the sister sword of Ike.
Isabelle = fits villager to a tee when it comes to proportions and just make her show cute emotions rather than creepy ones
Shadow = Sonics dark clone "FAKER!!!!" and super easy to add since he acts the exact same as sonic in almost every game hes in
Ken = the original Echo fighter. Legit all you have to do is swap his head, change his down b animation and give up b a fire multihit and youre good to go
Dixie = fits Diddys proportions. Just get rid of his jab finished and give her a twirling up b and youre good to go.

 

[Deleted member]

I can't believe we live in a timeline where Shadow feels like a near guarantee and Ridley and K. Rool are in the game.

If Shadow gets in, I don't know if I can resist the temptation to chant "HERE WE GO BUDDY HERE WE GO BUDDY HERE WE GO" throughout his entire reveal segment, lol. I hope they just go full ham on the edge. Make his stage entrance that stupid bike of his and make one of his taunts him sadly saying "Maria..." and we got a deal!

 

[Deleted member]

With Sakurai confirming what we thought with the ballot being looked at, I'm just browsing support threads and a lot of people feel their character is super likely now in various threads. I'm gonna feel kinda bad for those that don't get their character.

It's kind of their fault for hyping themselves up tbh.

 

[Paperchampion23]

With Sakurai confirming what we thought with the ballot being looked at, I'm just browsing support threads and a lot of people feel their character is super likely now in various threads. I'm gonna feel kinda bad for those that don't get their character.

Same, this is the highest chance many of them will ever get. Who knows what the next smash game does to the franchise if it's not bigger than Ultimate

 

[DarkFalcon]

Dreams will be realized and crushed... The only difference is it'll be even harsher.

I felt really bad for Ashley's supporters when she was just casually shown like she was.

I would have been more hurt with Ashley if that direct wasn't so incredible.

 

[N3ON]

It's kind of their fault for hyping themselves up tbh.

It's Sakurai's fault for being a butt and not including every character ever.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

It's kind of their fault for hyping themselves up tbh.

It's hard not to, I mean we've gotten two of the longest shot characters in Smash fandom history actually getting in.

 

[Idon]

Dreams will be realized and crushed... The only difference is it'll be even harsher.

I felt really bad for Ashley's supporters when she was just casually shown like she was.

Well how else would you deconfirm someone?
A twitter post that says "Just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll get to battle"?

 

[SebasSancy]

Well Simon Belmont did appear on the exit poll for the ballot. I think you're underestimating Castlevanias popularity just a little.

I think if any franchise bucks the trend of ballot picks it'll be Pokemon.

I don't understimating Castlevania, I'm just saying that I didn't see so much requets for Simon back in the date of the Smash Ballot. I know Castlevania is very popular, all of my friends love that saga, but I didn't see so much request for the characters to join smash

 

[Chrono.]

With Sakurai confirming what we thought with the ballot being looked at, I'm just browsing support threads and a lot of people feel their character is super likely now in various threads. I'm gonna feel kinda bad for those that don't get their character.

Me with Tails in particular lol.

Never thought he was that likely, and I still kinda don't, but damn it if part of me hasn't fallen for the hype this time.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

With Sakurai confirming what we thought with the ballot being looked at, I'm just browsing support threads and a lot of people feel their character is super likely now in various threads. I'm gonna feel kinda bad for those that don't get their character.

Same here.

Some characters will simply never make it to Smash for at least one reason or another, so there's always gonna be some disappointment for some of their fans. I'm holding out hope for several characters with smaller but still significant support bases right now, even if they aren't characters I personally want. That hope is mostly for the sake of their fans. I've found myself sympathizing with other support bases much more as of late.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It is going to be "hilarious" when the final roster is known and it is nothing like speculators or fans predicted. See what happened when Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 all leaked. The same will probably happen with Ultimate. People will holler up and down that it is missing certain characters that are deemed "necessary" so it cannot be real, and people will look to more and more convoluted theories as to why Sakurai is pulling our leg.

Already. Who would have seen Ridley coming after Sakurai said he was "too big". Who would have seen Castlevania characters coming when everyone was talking more about the likes of Rayman, Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Kingdom Hearts over this franchise? Who could have predicted Dark Samus making it in despite the most wanted Metroid character for 17 years still having not made it in and her own time in the sun being over for a decade? Who would have predicted Chrom after Smash 4's official material outright mocked the character and Sakurai saying the character brought nothing special to the table? Who would have predicted that our Mario newcomer would be Daisy over the likes of Toad, Geno, Paper Mario, Waluigi, and Captain Toad?

Even when Simon was leaked, who saw a second Castlevania character coming?

The speculators get a lot of things right, but in the end there are many things unknown to us, and we do not understand how the selection process for one game might be different for the current one.

If I were to show the present roster to myself six months ago, I would never have believed it. Too many absurd character choices. However, in the context of Sakurai's new parameters for Ultimate, the characters make perfect sense.

This does not mean "expect out there characters", but rather step outside the expectations of the "crowd" for what we might ultimately get.

Just look now at "Geno, Isaac, and Skull Kid are the new trinity!!!1111". A few weeks ago, Skull Kid was barely a blip. Now due to being seen as "likely" he is seen as likely. Isaac had a cult following too, but the moment people looked at that Ratholos screenshot, they went all "oomgg Issic comfirmed!!!!!".

The biggest loudmouths formulate their own consensus and shout it over and over and over again, and within this maelstrom., people lose sight of their own inner wisdom or intuition. This is perhaps a statement on social media in general though.

"Absorb what is useful. Reject what is useless. Add what is essentially your own." - Bruce Lee

Agreed.

For me, even when the Ashley hype train made the character's situation feel more likely on the outside, internally, I still stuck to my gut and believed in my personal assessment on her low chances based on everything that went against and benefitted her inclusion.

Not only should we as speculators form and assess our own thoughts carefully, we should also be open to all sorts of newcomer choices.

If you cannot be open, the chances of your predictions coming to pass based on what is currently popular and trending will most surely falter.

Being open and being able to assess a character's chances carefully is why I am willing to predict all kinds of choices like a Japan-only retro newcomer, surprise character, 'out-there' third parties like Layton/Leon Kennedy, ballot-based characters like K. Rool and Simon, and all sorts of newcomer choices. I am still sticking my guns on what I feel which newcomers are unlikely and have a real chance to this day, gradually being more open to the possibilities like Dante/Heihachi, a newcomer selection half-filled with third parties, echos possibly outnumbering the number of unique characters, and a whole bunch of other scenarios.

Form your own conclusions and be open, so that your time spent with speculation here on Smashboards will not be a waste.

This is what I think.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Well how else would you deconfirm someone?
A twitter post that says "Just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll get to battle"?

Well she wasn't a main featured AT, that would have at least let them down a little easier.

But she was just shown after the main set of them were, like an afterthought.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I think maybe half of the newcomers, clones, and Assist Trophies remaining will have been pulled from the Ballot. King K. Rool and Krystal I feel show that off rather well. Definitely wouldn't count the rest being entirely ballot though, gotta leave room for Sakurai's personal picks, as we've seen a few already.

 

[Next Door Dog]

I'm not a Sonic fan in the slightest, but I'd like seeing Shadow make it in. He's the epitome of dream rosters people have made over the years, way before Sonic was even a playable character. It's similar reasoning that makes me think I would've been more on board with the amount of FE characters we have if I was younger, since I didn't know Marth and Roy in Melee and I thought they were the bee's knees. I do think Tails got the short end of the stick, though.

When echoes were announced, I was totally for Ninten, but now I'm not so sure. Part of the reason is more interesting echoes have already been deconfirmed (Paula and Kumatora). But mostly it's because I'd be more interested in Ninten as a moveset than a character. What I'd really want is Ness as he was in older Smash games, with more physical normal attacks and possibly even his double jump cancel. What they did to Ness' dair in 4 was an absolute travesty, and I really didn't like how the character felt (even if he was supposedly better). I definitely still want more EB representation, but at this point I think I'd rather have more content outside of a new character, like more music and a Saturn Valley stage (and I still think Duster has a good chance showing up as an AT).

 

[NintenZ]

So here’s a list of songs that I made for potential Persona content, I chose the songs I felt embodied the series best so here’s the list:

Poem for Everyone’s Souls (Velvet Room Theme)
Snow Queen (Persona 1)
Maya’s Theme (Persona 2: Innocent Sin)
Mass Destruction/Burn My Dread (Atlus Kitajoh remix) (Persona 3)
When the Moon’s Reaching Out Stars (Persona 3)
A Way if Life (Persona 3)
Pursuing My True Self (Persona 4)
Reach Out To The Truth (Persona 4)
I’ll Face Myself (Persona 4)
Shadow World (Persona 4 Golden)
Time To Make History (Persona 4 Golden)
Break Out Of... (Persona 4 Arena Ultimax)
Maze of Life (Persona Q)
Light the Fire Up in the Night (Persona Q)
Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There (Persona 5)
Life Will Change (Persona 5)
Beneath the Mask (Persona 5)
Last Surprise (Persona 5)
The Whims of Fate (Persona 5)
Rivers in the Desert (Persona 5)
Our Moment (Persona 3 Dancing in Moonlight)
Groovy (Persona 5 Dancing in Starlight)
Road Less Taken (Persona Q2)

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I don't understimating Castlevania, I'm just saying that I didn't see so much requets for Simon back in the date of the Smash Ballot. I know Castlevania is very popular, all of my friends love that saga, but I didn't see so much request for the characters to join smash

I was going based off the exit poll, in which Simon Belmont did appear.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

I'd argue that if Simon Belmont had a similar result in the ballot then Sakurai would at least have been partially be influenced by that. He'd probably also be aware that Snake not being in the game would probably cause people to shy away from voting for Simon Belmont. (and that they would probably vote for Snake before voting for Simon)

Not to mention he's a gaming icon. It probably goes without saying that he'd be a popular pick.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I think maybe half of the newcomers, clones, and Assist Trophies remaining will have been pulled from the Ballot. King K. Rool and Krystal I feel show that off rather well. Definitely wouldn't count the rest being entirely ballot though, gotta leave room for Sakurai's personal picks, as we've seen a few already.

Yes, we're still waiting for the Sakurai pick.

The out of left field oddball choice that literally no one could see coming, and that makes me excited, even if its DLC in this case.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I wouldn't say Tails is deconfirmed yet. The GHZ stage is old, been there since Brawl and it's only faithful to the stage that those cameos return (When there was no way a 2nd Sonic character was getting in Brawl since Sonic himself was exciting enough). Knuckles is still there despite also being an Assist Trophy (Meaning it's possible for the Assist and Knuckles to appear in the background at the same time. Though it will take some serious RNG luck to get it to happen). Silver won't get anything new of the characters going in the loop being rather an unpopular character. But Tails got a Mii costume along with Knuckles (Who got an upgrade from just a stage cameo to that returning plus the Assist Trophy) and most noticably the mii costume is something Tails got while currently most expected Sonic newcomer (Most likely due to echo fighters though to be frank) Shadow did not.

Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow were probably the Top 3 Sonic characters in the ballot (No way to tell which ranked higher though). Shadow and Knuckles getting upgrades while Tails is left with nothing more then he got in Smash 4 would be odd. (Though maybe leaves him open as DLC if that is the case in the base game)

I count them as deconfirmed. They may yet still be in. I imagine the background renders simply carried over from Smash 4 and they could have just left them in regardless.

Still, it’s just a personal rule to count them as deconfirmed, even if it doesn’t end up being the truth.

 

[Nazyrus]

I mean, its okay to say what you feel, but people have actual reasons for thinking Skull Kid is in the game (and some of them are legit).

Even with Geno and Isaac, their chance have risen dramatically since we know Sakurai is directly pulling characters now from the Ballot. No, it does not mean every new character will be from there, BUT its the idea that they have a much larger chance now because he must have also seen their names show up on the ballot as well (they likely were some of the highest picks, as they always are)

This. Very true.

 

[Blargg888]

When Smash Ultimate releases, I really want to make a "No One is Here!" trailer.

It's the same stages and camera angles as the "Everyone is Here!" trailer, but no characters are present. So it's just this epic theme blaring over a bunch of empty, panning camera shots.

 

[?????????????]

On Simon not being a popular ballot pick...

I feel like Castlevania is a series where the games themselves are more iconic and "popular" than any of it's individual characters. People remember the gameplay, the experience, but not so much a CHARACTER attachment in the same way you would with many of the ballot picks.

Additionally, the protagonist is always changing. Yes, you would expect a Belmont, but that's going to be split AT LEAST between Simon, Trevor, and Richter, if not more...plus Alucard.

I think "representing" notable GAMES is just as important as notable CHARACTERS. It's the love of Castlevania itself that made Simon one of my most wanted newcomers, and the same reason why I'd really want a Dragon Quest character.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Inklings felt like the only character that was obviously 100% making it in a new Smash game.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Agreed.

For me, even when the Ashley hype train made the character's situation feel more likely on the outside, internally, I still stuck to my gut and believed in my personal assessment on her low chances based on everything that went against and benefitted her inclusion.

Not only should we as speculators form and assess our own thoughts carefully, we should also be open to all sorts of newcomer choices.

If you cannot be open, the chances of your predictions coming to pass based on what is currently popular and trending will most surely falter.

Being open and being able to assess a character's chances carefully is why I am willing to predict all kinds of choices like a Japan-only retro newcomer, surprise character, 'out-there' third parties like Layton/Leon Kennedy, ballot-based characters like K. Rool and Simon, and all sorts of newcomer choices. I am still sticking my guns on what I feel which newcomers are unlikely and have a real chance to this day, gradually being more open to the possibilities like Dante/Heihachi, a newcomer selection half-filled with third parties, echos possibly outnumbering the number of unique characters, and a whole bunch of other scenarios.

Form your own conclusions and be open, so that your time spent with speculation here on Smashboards will not be a waste.

This is what I think.

I take it this way: We have every character in Smash history and then some. Regardless of what we get now, we didn't have the roster this way before. It's that simple. If you are salty about a character inclusion or one not being included, that's on you.

We are at the point where we have 70+ damn characters in a fighting game. Who gets in now is an absolute plus to a massive roster.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

When Smash Ultimate releases, I really want to make a "No One is Here!" trailer.

It's the same stages and camera angles as the "Everyone is Here!" trailer, but no characters are present. So it's just this epic theme blaring over a bunch of empty, panning camera shots.

I'd watch that for sure and laugh my ass off.