Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DarkFalcon]

I hate when "Leaks" put Ninten on it. It's the easiest way to tell it's fake.

Show anyone Ultimate's current roster before the game was revealed and they'd call it fake too.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Ninten is a very real possibility, especially as an Echo.

Low chance though. Him and Ness are nearly identical and would be hard to figure out who is who if we're playing these two at the same time

 

[RileyXY1]

Low chance though. Him and Ness are nearly identical and would be hard to figure out who is who if we're playing these two at the same time

A vast majority of fan art has Ninten with an almost distinct design to discern him from Ness. This design is taken from an advertisement for Mother 1.

 

[DevaAshera]

It'd be cool if Robin had a Grima alt, where he/she looks possessed.

Problem is that telling Grima Robin apart from normal Robin would be difficult, unless they put the hood up.

Question is, who? Morgan? Lissa? Frederick? Somebody else?

Tharja makes the most sense, obsessed with Robin, popular, and the only character with a close connection that isn't playable besides Morgan, who would need a male/female model to work with her father/his mother.

...since I'm thinking about it for the first time Tharja actually is a likely choice. Doesn't make sense in a canon way but she's easily one of the most popular Smash characters with a direct connection to Robin in her personality. I could see her getting a decent amount of votes among Awakening Characters (just under Chrom maybe?). I mean I think it's implied Fiora did well enough to be included in Shulk's final smash so it makes sense.

It makes sense canonically, she is obsessed with Robin and he/she wouldn't refuse her help.

 

[Raspberry]

You all keep talking about the characters, but there's something in this link (https://sourcegaming.info/2018/08/2...smash-direct-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-561/) that worries me, since it does not outright deny the existence of a SSE-like story mode (in this case, Spirits), but it raises a few questions related to it.

I'm talking about this paragraph: "Simon and Richter. New whip physics. Dracula’s Castle and a whole host of boss characters. Count Dracula himself–complete with two forms. Alucard. Not to mention 34 music tracks. Even the trailer, made expressly for the purpose of introducing a new character, required a considerable amount of time and energy to create. A lot of people are probably wondering, “Who’s Richter?” I hope they’ll enjoy getting to know him through Ultimate."

From what I recall, the general consensus was that the character reveal trailers were actually cutscenes that would appear in the Spirits gamemode, yet this outright proves this wrong. What do you think the implications are?

 

[RileyXY1]

You all keep talking about the characters, but there's something in this link (https://sourcegaming.info/2018/08/2...smash-direct-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-561/) that worries me, since it does not outright deny the existence of a SSE-like story mode (in this case, Spirits), but it raises a few questions related to it.

I'm talking about this paragraph: "Simon and Richter. New whip physics. Dracula’s Castle and a whole host of boss characters. Count Dracula himself–complete with two forms. Alucard. Not to mention 34 music tracks. Even the trailer, made expressly for the purpose of introducing a new character, required a considerable amount of time and energy to create. A lot of people are probably wondering, “Who’s Richter?” I hope they’ll enjoy getting to know him through Ultimate."

From what I recall, the general consensus was that the character reveal trailers were actually cutscenes that would appear in the Spirits gamemode, yet this outright proves this wrong. What do you think the implications are?

That we aren't getting an adventure mode.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Problem is that telling Grima Robin apart from normal Robin would be difficult, unless they put the hood up.

Oh. that's an option. Robin isn't using that hood for anything anyways lol.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Globox as an Echo, like, immediately kills this.

His body shape is drastically different from Rayman's.

What actually kills this leak for me is the fact that the leaker is able to accurately label every newcomer specifically, but not the pokemon rep lmao?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

A vast majority of fan art has Ninten with an almost distinct design to discern him from Ness. This design is taken from an advertisement for Mother 1.

Oh so a hat flip is a distinct design?


Sorry, but they look WAYYYY too similar. I'm not buying it unless there's some serious changes done to Ninten

 

[Ivander]

Idk if anyone is getting news about a Nintendo worker "leaking" new info, but this might be rather interesting

https://www.thenerdmag.com/rumor-super-smash-bros-ultimate-leak-by-nintendo-employee/

Take this with a grain of salt, but I'm not buying this until I see it

Who is Pitcher?

And yeah, Globax is pretty drastic for an Echo. For one, he glides very differently from Rayman, with Rayman using his hair and Globax literally flapping his arms repeatedly. And two, Globax's body shape is drastically different from Rayman. I can't see this. Would be cool if it was true, but that bit with Globax really really hurts it.

 

[RileyXY1]

Oh so a hat flip is a distinct design?


Sorry, but they look WAYYYY too similar. I'm not buying it unless there's some serious changes done to Ninten

Well, besides reversing his hat, Ninten was given a scarf, has a red/white/blue striped shirt (as opposed to Ness's blue and yellow) and has no backpack. Ninten has also been shown with eyes in the shape of Pac-Man in some fanarts, other fanarts depict him with the same eyes as the other 2 Mother boys. One render (that's commonly used) went as far as to flatten Ninten's hat, making it look similar to Mario's hat.

 

[Raspberry]

That we aren't getting an adventure mode.

I feel bad for saying this considering all we got, but I strongly hope that's not the case.

 

[DarkFalcon]

From what I recall, the general consensus was that the character reveal trailers were actually cutscenes that would appear in the Spirits gamemode, yet this outright proves this wrong. What do you think the implications are?

I don't think that was the general consensus at all. I recall some people saying it but I thought that was more hopeful than anything. I've been saying since the start that Subspace 2 isn't happening, and what that means is no cutscenes. Those take a lot of time to produce, even if they're outsourced. I've been calling for Adventure mode which I felt was better gameplay wise than Subspace, which I always felt was just a worse Adventure mode with cutscenes.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Who is Pitcher?

And yeah, Globax is pretty drastic for an Echo. For one, he glides very differently from Rayman, with Rayman using his hair and Globax literally flapping his arms repeatedly. And two, Globax's body shape is drastically different from Rayman. I can't see this. Would be cool if it was true, but that bit with Globax really really hurts it.

Pitcher?

A REALLY close friend of catcher.

 

[RileyXY1]

That leak is fake because I highly doubt that Globax is an echo of Rayman.

 

[Raspberry]

I don't think that was the general consensus at all. I recall some people saying it but I thought that was more hopeful than anything. I've been saying since the start that Subspace 2 isn't happening, and what that means is no cutscenes. Those take a lot of time to produce, even if they're outsourced. I've been calling for Adventure mode which I felt was better gameplay wise than Subspace, which I always felt was just a worse Adventure mode with cutscenes.

I thought that was the consensus due to the link between the name of the mode and the elements that appeared in the trailers (Luigi's ghost, various characters "dying"), although I agree that it seemed farfetched from the start.

 

[MrSmashFour]

A lot of people are probably wondering, “Who’s Richter?” I hope they’ll enjoy getting to know him through Ultimate."

Hmm...

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

You know what kills that leak for me. He has "7th gen pokemon rep". You were able to get the whole ****ing final roster, including dlc choices, but you still don't know the pokemon. You just claim the same thing as the well known and credible leaker of the time.

 

[ProjectDream]

Echoes can be based on any character. Doesn't have to be from the same franchise, again this is a contrived 'rule' the community has made up again to fit its arguments.

If the moves match the character from a pre-existing character and its suitable, and the character animation rig is close enough as possible to match to minimise work and the character scales are almost 1:1. An echo can emulate any fighter, it would not be restricted to its own franchise only.

People said this about third party characters: 'they can't have echoes'. Next minute Richter pops up and that rule is broken.

 

[Irarius]

i was just watching papa genos video on that dante for smash leak, what do you guys think about it

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That we aren't getting an adventure mode.

No Adventure mode is a possibility, since that can end up increasing the development time for the game.

 

[PlugMeister]

Who is Pitcher?

It's implied to be the pitcher from the original Baseball for the NES, in order to fit the "retro Nintendo rep" quota like Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt did.

 

[ErenJager]

We need more rumours with Giegue.

A character with mind controller would be awesome.

He could also be a summoner since he has tons of henchmen.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Echoes can be based on any character. Doesn't have to be from the same franchise, again this is a contrived 'rule' the community has made up again to fit its arguments.

If the moves match the character from a pre-existing character and its suitable, and the character animation rig is close enough as possible to match to minimise work and the character scales are almost 1:1. An echo can emulate any fighter, it would not be restricted to its own franchise only.

People said this about third party characters: 'they can't have echoes'. Next minute Richter pops up and that rule is broken.

Exactly.

The smash fandom keeps making up these rules that were never present.

Not that i'm expecting a cross-series echo tho

 

[RileyXY1]

It's implied to be the pitcher from the original Baseball for the NES, in order to fit the "retro Nintendo rep" quota like Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt did.

Nope. It's just a misspelling of Richter Belmont.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Echoes can be based on any character. Doesn't have to be from the same franchise, again this is a contrived 'rule' the community has made up again to fit its arguments.

If the moves match the character from a pre-existing character and its suitable, and the character animation rig is close enough as possible to match to minimise work and the character scales are almost 1:1. An echo can emulate any fighter, it would not be restricted to its own franchise only.

People said this about third party characters: 'they can't have echoes'. Next minute Richter pops up and that rule is broken.

Agreed. We learned this 17 years ago with Falcondorf.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

i was just watching papa genos video on that dante for smash leak, what do you guys think about it

The discussion had was long and tedious. People pretty much think the prospect of Dante is ridiculous, the leak itself is kinda fishy, but keep your ears open

 

[Nethermoosen]

The more I think about how Ultimate is basically the development echo of Smash 4, the more I believe this game will blow us away with how much content they were really able to add. They could have added a whole Smash 4’s worth of content on top of what used to be Smash 4.

 

[Paperchampion23]

It's implied to be the pitcher from the original Baseball for the NES, in order to fit the "retro Nintendo rep" quota like Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt did.

Its Richter lol, the writer of that article is definitely ESL. Its also under their echo fighter list.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Pretty nice but i cant help thinking Ashley would be a good representation for the moon too.

 

[CroonerMike]

Well, besides reversing his hat, Ninten was given a scarf, has a red/white/blue striped shirt (as opposed to Ness's blue and yellow) and has no backpack. Ninten has also been shown with eyes in the shape of Pac-Man in some fanarts, other fanarts depict him with the same eyes as the other 2 Mother boys. One render (that's commonly used) went as far as to flatten Ninten's hat, making it look similar to Mario's hat.

I get your points...but a lot of the things added to Ninten are fan made designs. That's not helping his case.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

One thing that's caught my attention for no good reason is Final Smashes, and we have yet to see the Final Smash of these characters:
ultduckhunt:

Who'll be getting new ones? Who'll keep their old one?
If anything, will all probably have their Final Smashes from Smash 4, will probably have Grand Cross as well. What could work for the rest of the characters? I'm really interested in what :ultrobin will have since I can't really think of options for new ones for them.

It still bothers me that we still know nothing of Peach and Daisy' FS. What's so interesting about it that would merit keeping it a secret?

It's implied to be the pitcher from the original Baseball for the NES, in order to fit the "retro Nintendo rep" quota like Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt did.

That's about as silly as expecting the fat hockey player from Ice Hockey on NES.

Its Richter lol, the writer of that article is definitely ESL. Its also under their echo fighter list.

Let's face it, people keep misspelling Richter's name.

 

[Irarius]

The discussion had was long and tedious. People pretty much think the prospect of Dante is ridiculous, the leak itself is kinda fishy, but keep your ears open

well i feel like dante derserved the spot bayonetta fills a bit more, and also he is multiplatform.

it should not even be hard to make him, take ikes base model, which is already similiar to dmc4 dante, take the sword which is similiar, and combine some original moves plus some ike and bayonetta moves, make it a heavier bayonetta type and he is done.
i myslf can see dante very well since he is basicly a cartoon LIKE character

 

[RileyXY1]

I get your points...but a lot of the things added to Ninten are fan made designs. That's not helping his case.

Most of them came from an old advertisement for the first Mother game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Echoes can be based on any character. Doesn't have to be from the same franchise, again this is a contrived 'rule' the community has made up again to fit its arguments.

If the moves match the character from a pre-existing character and its suitable, and the character animation rig is close enough as possible to match to minimise work and the character scales are almost 1:1. An echo can emulate any fighter, it would not be restricted to its own franchise only.

People said this about third party characters: 'they can't have echoes'. Next minute Richter pops up and that rule is broken.

If I recall, the only clone fighter to copy a moveset from a fighter who's from a different franchise is Ganondorf. And even in Melee, Ganondorf was not even close to being an Echo Fighter, due to the significant attribute differences between him and Captain Falcon.

Anyway, at this point, a cross-series Echo Fighter would literally make no sense whatsoever, especially if the option to sort the roster by series exists.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Well, besides reversing his hat, Ninten was given a scarf, has a red/white/blue striped shirt (as opposed to Ness's blue and yellow) and has no backpack. Ninten has also been shown with eyes in the shape of Pac-Man in some fanarts, other fanarts depict him with the same eyes as the other 2 Mother boys. One render (that's commonly used) went as far as to flatten Ninten's hat, making it look similar to Mario's hat.

It's a lot of fan made designs. That's not helping your case here when they look nearly identical


If he were to get in, they'd pull a Roy and give him a brand new look

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

well i feel like dante derserved the spot bayonetta fills a bit more, and also he is multiplatform.

it should not even be hard to make him, take ikes base model, which is already similiar to dmc4 dante, take the sword which is similiar, and combine some original moves plus some ike and bayonetta moves, make it a heavier bayonetta type and he is done.
i myslf can see dante very well since he is basicly a cartoon LIKE character

People's main problem was his complete lack of meaningful connection to Nintendo. Let's recall the only reason bayo was even considered was what happened with bayo 2.

But if Snake and Cloud can happen anyone can happen if they're iconic enough, and Dante is rather iconic, he's just a bit if a shock, I've certainly never seen him seriously thought about before now, so I'd be curious where the idea even came to Sakurai

 

[John Dylan Smith]

Would love this to be true, that's a fantastic roster.

I also do believe that he said that Sora from Kingdom Hearts would be DLC! While I still do have serious doubts about Sora being in the game (Given he's still owned by Disney)!

I still hope to a small extent that this leak is correct (If Sora is DLC, then I will really be breaking down in tears of pure happiness after seeing one of my childhood heroes making in to one of my favorite fighting game series and I will never ask Sakurai for anything ever again)!

 

[Nethermoosen]

If I recall, the only clone fighter to copy a moveset from a fighter who's from a different franchise is Ganondorf. And even in Melee, Ganondorf was not even close to being an Echo Fighter, due to the significant attribute differences between him and Captain Falcon.

Anyway, at this point, a cross-series Echo Fighter would literally make no sense whatsoever, especially if the option to sort the roster by series exists.

Disagree, respectfully. This rule was broken as soon as you mentioned Falcondorf. Even if his properties are dramatically altered, he was made into a clone of someone who is not only in a completely different game, but doesn’t even share a moveset that could accurately represent his character in ANY way. The only thing that was even kind of similar was body type.

The option to sort series would probably either exclude a cross-series echo or it would just allow it to share the same space anyways.

I wouldn’t like it, but I wouldn’t say it couldn’t happen.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Echoes can be based on any character. Doesn't have to be from the same franchise, again this is a contrived 'rule' the community has made up again to fit its arguments.

If the moves match the character from a pre-existing character and its suitable, and the character animation rig is close enough as possible to match to minimise work and the character scales are almost 1:1. An echo can emulate any fighter, it would not be restricted to its own franchise only.

People said this about third party characters: 'they can't have echoes'. Next minute Richter pops up and that rule is broken.

Eh, after the backlash ganondorf got I really doubt they'd do any more cross-series echoes tbh. And there's very few characters where echoing a character not from their own series actually works anyway, Pretty much the only example is blaziken.