Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Yep that's the one. Does it resembles Shadow? Or it just a simple black recolor. I genuinely ask because I have about 1% knowledge about Sonic.

Shadow's armbands are rings, like, Sonic rings with some weird thing poking out. They're power inhibitors in the canon

 

[KMDP]

It doesn’t look very Shadow black, looks more like a deep navy tbh

Yeah, that's a Navy colour, not Black.

(Shadow would probably have his Red colour changed for his alts, like in Shadow the Hedgehog).

 

[Nazyrus]

I'm glad I no longer see this guy being pushed for smash as often and as much as back then with Sm4sh, lol. But that's just me.

 

[Bowserlick]

Possible Reason for Skull Kid: BALLOT

- Sakurai could have chosen from the top 30. And this is after culling off non-videogame characters.
Skull Kid could have made this threshold.

Reasons for Picking Skull Kid from the Top Thirty

- The Zelda Franchise has not gotten a newcomer since melee.
- The Zelda Franchise has 6 characters, but only 3 are original designs.
- Villains may be a sub-theme for the Adventure mode.
- Not many other Zelda character contenders.
- Open moveset

 

[Nethermoosen]

Yep that's the one. Does it resembles Shadow? Or it just a simple black recolor. I genuinely ask because I have about 1% knowledge about Sonic.

It resembles Shadow in no meaningful way whatsoever. It’s more of a deep, dark blue.

Shadow is jet black with Red accents on the quills(which curve upward on all but the top-most quill.

 

[BluePikmin11]

His Return to Dreamland pause description implies his popularity got him in. It helped a LOT, but people really liked him in Revenge of the King. Either way, it's INCREDIBLY misleading of you to use Bandana Dee as a comparison for Brawl support, if anything, that's downplaying your point entirely

I kinda melded in Dee when N3ON was talking about very popular characters like "Geno and Isaac and Dee", and I naturally thought about Brawl's popular characters since that was the time support was crazy. I mentioned Dee in that group of popular Brawl characters without realizing it. That is a mistake on my part.

 

[Pakky]

Are you doing requests? If so, I'd like to see a Scizor or Galacta Knight one.

Spoiler: Scizor

Look at that bugo!

 

[T-Hell]

It resembles Shadow in no meaningful way whatsoever. It’s more of a deep, dark blue.

Shadow is jet black with Red accents on the quills(which curve upward on all but the top-most quill.

Minute 9:10, player 4. That looks very black to me, rather than dark blue, but what do I know. It could still not mean Shadow's exclusion that's for sure.

 

[Pyra]

Shutting down other's speculation is not speculation as well imo. You're free to disagree, but to consistently try to tell them 100% that they are wrong for speculating that it COULD be something, that's wrong, and that's my point I tried to make.

And in fact I do disagree.
While I don't think in the slightest that being rude about someone else's speculation is productive at all, pointing out something to the contrary of what someone said is definitely still a major part of a speculative conversation.

The whole point of what we're talking about here is rating, based on things we see and know, how likely it is that Sakurai and team have decided to develop a character into a fighter or some other aspect of the game. If someone were to propose something that they would think supports the character's chances, people are definitely allowed to look at that position and either agree or disagree with it. That's not only how speculative discourse works, that's how presenting evidence in general goes.

To say that totally 100% disagreeing with someone's speculation is not itself speculation misses the point of speculation itself.
Even more so when people try to take that personally and fire back as if they're crazy for disagreeing.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Not much imo. Shadow is purely black with red parts. That right there is just a very dark blue… I, at least, don't consider it to be anything like shadow.

Agreed, the closest character you can call any of Sonic's alts is Silver and I highly doubt people would want Silver over Shadow, Tails, Knuckles, Blaze or Eggman.

As much as the comics and his later appearences have fixed his debut in some peoples minds.

 

[Akg0001]

About skull kids chance in smash 5 and non believers (hints aside!)

1. Guys dont forget skull kid appeals to young and old people. Most of the older zelda fans played majoras mask on 64. Most of the younger zelda fans played majoras mask on 3ds.

2. Zelda got no newcomer since brawl (or even since melee, toon link replaced young link as a clone). We are talking about zelda... i dont have to say much more on this point.

3. If smash5 has heroes vs villians theme (looks like it) than skull kids inclusion as a playable character would fit perfect.

4. Roster was finalized in december 2015. Majoras mask release date was in february 2015. Everthing fits here together too.

TL;DR:

1. Skull kid appeals to young and old
2. It would be nice if zelda gets newcomer
3. We need more villians theme in smash 5
4. Release date of MM3ds and final roster plan both 2015.

It all makes sense!

 

[Nethermoosen]

Minute 9:10, player 4. That looks very black to me, rather than dark blue, but what do I know. It could still not mean Shadow's exclusion that's for sure.

Well, it does look much more grayscale in that picture. Can’t argue that. I personally wouldn’t take it as a hint, but then again, I also took an interest in the chairs....so....I’m no hint guru either. Haha

 

[Zeox]

I think Hilda's chances are bigger than what people are thinking.

I can use Dark Samus as an example, before echoes were a thing, she wasn't that popular, people were asking for Ridley, Rundas, Sylux... yet, Dark Samus got in, why people start assuming she was in? because Samus was missing her "Dark Samus" alt, which is curious, because Zelda also doesn't have a Hilda alt.
Then we have the thing that Hilda could be consider a villain (even if her motives where good), and this Smash seems to be more oriented to villains (with Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus and all the rumours of Skull Kid).

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Minute 9:10, player 4. That looks very black to me, rather than dark blue, but what do I know. It could still not mean Shadow's exclusion that's for sure.

Looks more of a grey/light grey color than black though

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think Hilda's chances are bigger than what people are thinking.

I can use Dark Samus as an example, before echoes were a thing, she wasn't that popular, people were asking for Ridley, Rundas, Sylux... yet, Dark Samus got in, why people start assuming she was in? because Samus was missing her "Dark Samus" alt, which is curious, because Zelda also doesn't have a Hilda alt.
Then we have the thing that Hilda could be consider a villain (even if her motives where good), and this Smash seems to be more oriented to villains (with Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus and all the rumours of Skull Kid).

I mean Dark Samus WAS popular as that's how, y'know, she got in

 

[pupNapoleon]

Disclaimer: I'm not Japanese

According to a Japanese 2016 popularity poll, Gothitelle hovers around the 480 mark. No clue how accurate this poll is assumed to be, and it does predate Gen VII (Volcanion was also excluded from the poll).

I appreciate you responding to me, but I have no idea what that means. 480 out of what? And which Japanese poll?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I think Hilda's chances are bigger than what people are thinking.

I can use Dark Samus as an example, before echoes were a thing, she wasn't that popular, people were asking for Ridley, Rundas, Sylux... yet, Dark Samus got in, why people start assuming she was in? because Samus was missing her "Dark Samus" alt, which is curious, because Zelda also doesn't have a Hilda alt.
Then we have the thing that Hilda could be consider a villain (even if her motives where good), and this Smash seems to be more oriented to villains (with Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus and all the rumours of Skull Kid).

Except Dark Samus was popular enough to warrant the inclusion, Sakurai even said after he revealed Chrom & Dark Samus both were highly requested.

I wouldn't be against Hilda being around though since Zelda's design in this game would line up with Hilda being a possible echo.

 

[DarkFalcon]

About skull kids chance in smash 5 and non believers (hints aside!)

1. Guys dont forget skull kid appeals to young and old people. Most of the older zelda fans played majoras mask on 64. Most of the younger zelda fans played majoras mask on 3ds.

2. Zelda got no newcomer since brawl. We are talking about zelda... i dont have to say much more on this point.

3. If smash5 has heroes vs villians theme (looks like it) than skull kids inclusion as a playable character would fit perfect.

4. Roster was finalized in december 2015. Majoras mask release date was in february 2015. Everthing fits here together too.

TL;DR:

1. Skull kid appeals to young and old
2. It would be nice if zelda gets newcomer
3. We need more villians theme in smash 5
4. Release date of MM3ds and final roster plan both 2015.

It all makes sense!

Trust me, as someone who thought Ashley had a ton of evidence in her favor, especially her prominence in 2015, those clues could mean absolutely nothing.

Do I think he's in the game as a character? Actually...Yea I do. I think the most evidence Skull Kid has going for him is his Assist being missing after 2 waves of disconfirmations.

 

[KMDP]

About skull kids chance in smash 5 and non believers (hints aside!)

1. Guys dont forget skull kid appeals to young and old people. Most of the older zelda fans played majoras mask on 64. Most of the younger zelda fans played majoras mask on 3ds.

2. Zelda got no newcomer since brawl. We are talking about zelda... i dont have to say much more on this point.

3. If smash5 has heroes vs villians theme (looks like it) than skull kids inclusion as a playable character would fit perfect.

4. Roster was finalized in december 2015. Majoras mask release date was in february 2015. Everthing fits here together too.

TL;DR:

1. Skull kid appeals to young and old
2. It would be nice if zelda gets newcomer
3. We need more villians theme in smash 5
4. Release date of MM3ds and final roster plan both 2015.

It all makes sense!

Some things I want to point out about your post.

The only thing in Smash Ultimate that has had a "Heroes and Villains" theme is the first section of K. Rool's trailer.

Ridley and K. Rool were among the number one requests for Newcomers, the fact that they are also Villains is tangential to the former, more important, point.
(: "We are Number 1!")

If they were going to use Skull Kid to promote Majora's Mask 3D, they would have released him during Smash 4's DLC, not included him as a Newcomer in Ultimate.

 

[monadoboy]

Minute 9:10, player 4. That looks very black to me, rather than dark blue, but what do I know. It could still not mean Shadow's exclusion that's for sure.

It's just dark, not Shadow colored. If his shoes were like Shadow's, then it would be a different story.
(I almost had an aneurysm when he said "la Wii" why did I have to watch that)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Didn't Sakurai say Robin was nearly too late for Smash 4 despite being from a game released the same year as he started the project plan? Cause that argument doesn't work well for Skull Kid, let alone anyone

 

[Nethermoosen]

Except Dark Samus was popular enough to warrant the inclusion, Sakurai even said after he revealed Chrom & Dark Samus both were highly requested.

I wouldn't be against Hilda being around though since Zelda's design in this game would line up with Hilda being a possible echo.

Oh no...what if Skull Kid didn’t show up....and instead we got

 

[ZephyrZ]

I think Hilda's chances are bigger than what people are thinking.

I can use Dark Samus as an example, before echoes were a thing, she wasn't that popular, people were asking for Ridley, Rundas, Sylux... yet, Dark Samus got in, why people start assuming she was in? because Samus was missing her "Dark Samus" alt, which is curious, because Zelda also doesn't have a Hilda alt.
Then we have the thing that Hilda could be consider a villain (even if her motives where good), and this Smash seems to be more oriented to villains (with Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus and all the rumours of Skull Kid).

I'd be totally down for a Hilda echo, but there is a couple important distinctions between her and and Dark Samus. For one, Samus had a Dark Samus alt in Smash 4 that they went through the trouble of removing. Zelda never had a Hilda alt in the first place, so the lack of one isn't nearly as suspicious. And while Metroid fans were split between some of the characters your listed, I remember quite a bit of campaigning for her from Metroid fans who made their peace with Ridley, so she probably got a decent ballot score. Sakurai even said she was popular in the recent direct. I barely remember anyone asking for Hilda.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Didn't Sakurai say Robin was nearly too late for Smash 4 despite being from a game released the same year as he started the project plan? Cause that argument doesn't work well for Skull Kid, let alone anyone

Yeah he basically said if Awakening came out any later than it did, it wouldn't have made it into Smash 4.

 

[Bowserlick]

What if every playable character could be an assist trophy?

Spirit mode is the way to unleash them from their prison and forced servitude.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As far as I can tell, no one really hates Gothitelle, which I guess accounts for a lot of the perception gap.

Theres over 900 Pokemon characters that could be added; love and hate being closer than indifference, I don't see how this argument accounts for anything.

My overall point is that they're characters that didn't have that many people asking for them. The reasoning were different between each (everyone just said Chrom because he was the biggest character on the boxart/that Gematsu leak) but I'm using them as a sample of the general unpredictability, even if they seem obvious in hindsight.

That said, Sakurai could very well do something like take all of Japan's Magnemite meme votes seriously... (neveraskmeforanythingeveragain)

I doubt Gardevoir and Gothitelle are that highly requested, anyway. Not to mention, Pokemon being the most difficult franchise to guess accurately, who knows if TPC will even allow a popularity vote. If they do, my vote is on popular + relevant, and for that, I think Eevee is our bet. If not Team Rocket.

Chrom's not boring though.

I cannot disagree harder. Boring blue haired swordsman is not a meme without merit.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

What if every playable character could be an assist trophy?

Spirit mode is the way to unleash them from their prison and forced servitude.

I've always wanted to play as the Moon from Majoras Mask.

Spirit Mode may finally let me live this dream. Literally Mooning people.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I cannot disagree harder. Boring blue haired swordsman is not a meme without merit.

Any time I see this I want to screech at the top of my lungs.

 

[Enchess]

Um... I feel like I missed something, but I'm out of data so I cant check back through all these pages. Was the Skull Kid CSS debunked yet? Also, has there been something else since then? (Why is Shadow being talked about?)

 

[T-Hell]

It's just dark, not Shadow colored. If his shoes were like Shadow's, then it would be a different story.
(I almost had an aneurysm when he said "la Wii" why did I have to watch that)

Well he is spanish so excuse that lmao.

 

[Remmy-ro]

I think Hilda's chances are bigger than what people are thinking.

I can use Dark Samus as an example, before echoes were a thing, she wasn't that popular, people were asking for Ridley, Rundas, Sylux... yet, Dark Samus got in, why people start assuming she was in? because Samus was missing her "Dark Samus" alt, which is curious, because Zelda also doesn't have a Hilda alt.
Then we have the thing that Hilda could be consider a villain (even if her motives where good), and this Smash seems to be more oriented to villains (with Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus and all the rumours of Skull Kid).

But Zelda never had a Hilda alt in the first place. If it was the same case for Samus, Dark Samus wouldn't have seemed like such a lock

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I think Hilda's chances are bigger than what people are thinking.

I can use Dark Samus as an example, before echoes were a thing, she wasn't that popular, people were asking for Ridley, Rundas, Sylux... yet, Dark Samus got in, why people start assuming she was in? because Samus was missing her "Dark Samus" alt, which is curious, because Zelda also doesn't have a Hilda alt.
Then we have the thing that Hilda could be consider a villain (even if her motives where good), and this Smash seems to be more oriented to villains (with Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus and all the rumours of Skull Kid).

There's one thing we might need to consider is the possibility of her dark attire being hinted towards Hilda. Other than that, it's very possible Hilda could be playable this time around to throw something off of us


Meanwhile has anyone ever bought up the fact Zelda and Rosalina just high-fived one another?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Um... I feel like I missed something, but I'm out of data so I cant check back through all these pages. Was the Skull Kid CSS debunked yet? Also, has there been something else since then? (Why is Shadow being talked about?)

Someone brought up how Ike and Samus lost their alts that referenced Chrom & Dark Samus and were saying since Sonic had his dark navy one still, that Shadow might not show up.

 

[KMDP]

What if every playable character could be an assist trophy?

Spirit mode is the way to unleash them from their prison and forced servitude.

*grabs a spritz bottle* Don't you go getting ideas.
---
What if... instead of Hilda as a Zelda Echo? We get Vaati as the Zelda Echo?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Any time I see this I want to screech at the top of my lungs.

And that is your opinion. The opinion of many is the sentiment which makes you want to scream in the first place. That is how I feel when users try to justify how many Fire Emblem characters we have. I'm not gonna sit here and complain, but theres no qualifying reason that a franchise that nearly died has this much playability, with three characters from a single game, that are unlikely to appear again in a canon game.

To each her own.

 

[TheGoobster]

Um... I feel like I missed something, but I'm out of data so I cant check back through all these pages. Was the Skull Kid CSS debunked yet? Also, has there been something else since then? (Why is Shadow being talked about?)

Yeah, it was.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Um... I feel like I missed something, but I'm out of data so I cant check back through all these pages. Was the Skull Kid CSS debunked yet? Also, has there been something else since then? (Why is Shadow being talked about?)

You mean the one with the snake around his neck? Portrait's too stretched, left hand is a perfect match with other pics of the kid and the Isabelle pic showed some font inconsistentcy iirc. Oh, and the ****ING SNAKE AROUND HIS NECK

 

[ZephyrZ]

*grabs a spritz bottle* Don't you go getting ideas.
---
What if... instead of Hilda as a Zelda Echo? We get Vaati as the Zelda Echo?

And Majora's Incarnation as a Captain Falcon echo!

 

[pupNapoleon]

Someone brought up how Ike and Samus lost their alts that referenced Chrom & Dark Samus and were saying since Sonic had his dark navy one still, that Shadow might not show up.

Sega wont allow Sonic to truly change color. Only the accessories actually get much editing.

I dont think it is a valid comparison. The color palettes for Chrom and Dark Samus made the Ike and Samus look almost identical to their counterparts. Sonic and Shadow will always look different, regardless.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm honestly half expecting a Hilda Echo. She's popular enough and it would just be too easy to make her an echo.