Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Honestly, all this anti-Gen 1 drivel is embarrassing to me.

Does it really matter what Generation a Pokémon is from?
I suppose in terms of which Generation is the freshest/is on the way would be given more consideration at the time of the roster decision, yes.

But otherwise, if the Pokémon is noteworthy and iconic, why the **** should it matter if it's "another Gen 1" if it's someone like Gengar or Snorlax, who have withstood the test of time and can provide fresh styles of fighting?

They wouldn't be there to give representation to "Gen 1", they'd be there to represent themselves as Pokémon.

And bear in mind that just because a Pokémon is hot **** for their region/generation/whatever doesn't mean they are hot **** for the franchise as a whole.

Landorus-T has been pretty big in the metagame since its debut and is a major Gen 5 "representative" as a result.
But who outside the competitive players knows what a Landorus-T is?
Exactly.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Exhibit A as to why Blastoise is ****ing rad:
View attachment 157916
Exhibit B:
Nothing, if Blastoise isn't already your favorite pokemon, I dunno what to do.

The only reason I got Pokemon (Pokemon Blue) was so I could have a Blastoise

 

[vaanrose]

For the most part it isn't the gen itself. It's the genwunners. I like gen 1 (after all it's where my second favorite pokemon comes from!) but I prefer 3 and 5. I just get tired of the over saturation of gen 1 and how genwunners treat it like the perfect game when it obviously has flaws just like every game.

You can list all the "flaws" in gen 1 as if we don't already know they're there, but it changes nothing. Might as well point out that the aliens in Star Wars are just dudes in rubber masks. A classic will always be a classic.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Every gen gets a mon that gets more popular than others, they don't need to have muh gen 1 tier merit. Smash isn't Pokemon but at least let people have hope that they won't be ignored like Game Freak ignored them. Oh, and I'm still mad the only Gen V Mega was ****ing Audino instead of idk, Bisharp, Galvantula, Hydreigon, Haxorus, Accelgor, etc.

 

[osby]

Tbh, Gen 3 (read: Deoxys movie) was my childhood so they can add freaking Surskit and I'd be okay with it.

 

[Essora]

I'm expecting to see Geno and Shadow(ε), probably Isabelle(ε) as well. On top of that, Skull Kid and Decidueye wouldn't surprise me. I expect to probably see around 2 complete surprise entrants, and probably a half-dozen or more echoes. I know they're going berserk with this game but I don't know how much more they could possibly add beyond what we've already seen.

 

[Iridium]

What's everyones opinion on people thinking that the 103 stages we have now are the only stages we're getting ?

I doubt that the count will end at 103. Maybe right now, but if we get new characters, we most likely will get new stages as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai said 103 because that's how much he could talk about at that point.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've never been a fan of Gen 3, but the battle with Deoxys and Rayquaza in those Pokemon shorts was one of the best moments in Pokemon animated history

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You can list all the "flaws" in gen 1 as if we don't already know they're there, but it changes nothing. Might as well point out that the aliens in Star Wars are just dudes in rubber masks. A classic will always be a classic.

But dudes in rubber masks are the best D: How can you try to downplay stuff like that in front of a toku fan?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Nah, they just count Trainer as 1 and Echoes as separate fighters.

You know that didn't make sense at all since that would be a really annoying and difficult number to arrive at by counting on the fighter page of the official site. What's relevant is that the about page claims that number. I just knew it didn't make sense for an Amazon employee to have counted to 71 because zero chance that much work would be put into it so I figured any number that wasn't 67 had to come from Nintendo directly, but Nintendo uses different numbers in different locations of their own official site in a pretty remarkable display.

Seriously Nintendo, how do you not have a consistent sales pitch on this point?

 

[osby]

You can list all the "flaws" in gen 1 as if we don't already know they're there, but it changes nothing. Might as well point out that the aliens in Star Wars are just dudes in rubber masks. A classic will always be a classic.

Okay guys, you can stop with Melee vs Brawl, Smash 64 is the best Smash.

 

[MargnetMan23]

I love the Gen V games, but seriously I'm struggling to think of more than 3 potential playable candidates from them. The designs are so out there on a lot of them, and Gen V also has some of the most forgettable pokemon from the entire series. Anyone remember Elgyem, Maractus, and Heatmor?

Now Gen 3 on the other hand, has tons of viable options imo.

Well, I didn't remember them but now I do :3 I mean, I don't think it would be impossible to make most of gen 5 playable if they really put their mind to it but yeah... Still, I want to move to that alternative reality where Sigilyph became SO popular that Sakurai just HAS to make it playable. Now that would be a sight to see.

 

[vaanrose]

Okay guys, you can stop with Melee vs Brawl, Smash 64 is the best Smash.

Smash 64 is the only one of those I still play, so

 

[Radical Bones]

I'd love a Pokemon rep that isn't a Pokemon, but Pokemon Co. wouldn't go for it.

Imagine the SuMo protagonist as a playable character that uses their Ride Pokemon for all their attacks? Smash attacks can be Machamp Shove, Up+B can be 'zard, Side+B can be Taurus, Down+B can be Mudsdale Earthquaking.

I just thought of this idea on the spot and now I really want it.

Also a fishing rod grab.

The FS could be a tsunami while the protag rides off safely on Mantine.

 

[TheGoobster]

What if the new Pokemon Rep is a pokemon trainer echo with pokemon from a different gen?

Ok but all I want is Zangoose

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Gary for Smash Ultimate

 

[Iridium]

Tbh, Gen 3 (read: Deoxys movie) was my childhood so they can add freaking Surskit and I'd be okay with it.

Lucario's movie broke me, and not in a good way at all. Same with what happened to Latios . . .

 

[DarkFalcon]

Honestly, all this anti-Gen 1 drivel is embarrassing to me.

Does it really matter what Generation a Pokémon is from?
I suppose in terms of which Generation is the freshest/is on the way would be given more consideration at the time of the roster decision, yes.

But otherwise, if the Pokémon is noteworthy and iconic, why the **** should it matter if it's "another Gen 1" if it's someone like Gengar or Snorlax, who have withstood the test of time and can provide fresh styles of fighting?

They wouldn't be there to give representation to "Gen 1", they'd be there to represent themselves as Pokémon.

And bear in mind that just because a Pokémon is hot **** for their region/generation/whatever doesn't mean they are hot **** for the franchise as a whole.

Landorus-T has been pretty big in the metagame since its debut and is a major Gen 5 "representative" as a result.
But who outside the competitive players knows what a Landorus-T is?
Exactly.

I'm just speaking what'd I'd personally prefer. I'd rather have a Pokemon from a different generation. Nothing against Gen 1. I just want my favorite generation to get represented.

 

[Enchess]

Honestly, all this anti-Gen 1 drivel is embarrassing to me.

Does it really matter what Generation a Pokémon is from?
I suppose in terms of which Generation is the freshest/is on the way would be given more consideration at the time of the roster decision, yes.

But otherwise, if the Pokémon is noteworthy and iconic, why the **** should it matter if it's "another Gen 1" if it's someone like Gengar or Snorlax, who have withstood the test of time and can provide fresh styles of fighting?

They wouldn't be there to give representation to "Gen 1", they'd be there to represent themselves as Pokémon.

And bear in mind that just because a Pokémon is hot **** for their region/generation/whatever doesn't mean they are hot **** for the franchise as a whole.

Landorus-T has been pretty big in the metagame since its debut and is a major Gen 5 "representative" as a result.
But who outside the competitive players knows what a Landorus-T is?
Exactly.

I've never even had a passing interest in being competitive with Pokemon and yeah I know Landorus, he was memorable.

I get what you are saying, but it's this thinking that makes every DK stage a jungle instead of a snowy mountain, factory, or lumber mill. All of which are super memorable and well-loved by fans, but the jungle is the most notable location so screw variety I guess.

I love Gen 1. It's my second favorite gen and third favorite (Gen 2) isn't even close in my mind. But I'm just sorta sick of getting so much from the same part of the series. It's boring. Nevermind that most of my favorite Pokemon will never have a chance because they have the misfortune of belonging to Gen V. I don't even like Gen 3 and I'm rooting for it for the variety.

 

[Zinith]

So similar to a few weeks ago, I'm gonna do a ratio thing comparing a franchise's amount of playable fighters to it's stages, but this time only stages confirmed to be in Smash Ultimate. There are 70 fighters (excluding ) and 100 stages (excluding Final Destination, Battlefield and Big Battlefield).

Like before, has no stages and Nintendo DS, Electroplankton, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs, Balloon Fight, Wii Sports, Pilotwings, Wrecking Crew and Find Mii have no playable fighters. Miiverse was taken out completely...

4
3
2.25
2
1.5
1.33
1
0.78
0.5
0.43

Lots of moving around due to new characters and old stages getting cut (especially DK), but my boi still remains the highest stage-to-character ratio and Fire Emblem TANKED!!!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Whenever people talk about Gen 1 I always get the feeling that we old folks shouldn't like what we grew up on, like 20 years ago, and I'm just like "well ****, maybe they're right"

In other words Pokemon talk makes me feel old. Personally I couldn't care less about what Pokemon gets in past Gen III. I gave Sun & Moon a shot and honestly didn't really care for it. X and Y were fine and I didn't play any of the others... So, yeah, I support Decidueye and Inceneroar but if they don't get in I won't be tore up about it.

 

[vaanrose]

So similar to a few weeks ago, I'm gonna do a ratio thing comparing a franchise's amount of playable fighters to it's stages, but this time only stages confirmed to be in Smash Ultimate. There are 70 fighters (excluding ) and 100 stages (excluding Final Destination, Battlefield and Big Battlefield).

Like before, has no stages and Nintendo DS, Electroplankton, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs, Balloon Fight, Wii Sports, Pilotwings, Wrecking Crew and Find Mii have no playable fighters. Miiverse was taken out completely...

4
3
2.25
2
1.5
1.33
1
0.78
0.43

Lots of moving around due to new characters and old stages getting cut (especially DK), but my still remains the highest stage-to-character ratio and Fire Emblem TANKED!!!

So what you're saying is Yoshi needs to get some stages cut

 

[Wambo]

Thought: if they're telling the truth about there being just 103 stages, that means we'll likely only see newcomers related to the current stages at this point. Unless everyone was expecting a Golden Sun stage, I think this hurts Isaac's chances a little.

> Geno would fit right in on any Mario stage
> Isabelle has two AC stages
> Shadow has two Sonic stages
> Skull Kid has Great Bay

etc.

EDIT: It seems like that's what everyone was talking about anyway, nvm...

 

[L9999]

Do we really need more Pokemon?

Head count:

We have 9 Pokemon characters. Out of these 9 1 is a clone, 1 is a character made in 5 minutes for an old tradition, 3 are attached to a gimmick, and 8 are unique. We have who knows how many Pokemon stages, plenty of music, and the Pokeball item has mons from all the gens.

I'd love a Pokemon rep that isn't a Pokemon, but Pokemon Co. wouldn't go for it.

Imagine the SuMo protagonist as a playable character that uses their Ride Pokemon for all their attacks? Smash attacks can be Machamp Shove, Up+B can be 'zard, Side+B can be Taurus, Down+B can be Mudsdale Earthquaking.

I just thought of this idea on the spot and now I really want it.

Also a fishing rod grab.

The FS could be a tsunami while the protag rides off safely on Mantine.

This would be a much more interesting idea than the predictable Pokemon "rep." If you want to go to the extreme they could reboot the concept of Pokemon Trainer, adding bits from the trainers of all gens for a Frankensteinian creation. The result would be a Bowser Jr-sque character, with skins of all the trainers so neurotic people won't freak out over "lack of rep."

 

[Misery Brick]

Gen 1 is the most iconic and the original, so therefore it's going to line up with the majority of represented Pokemon.
And coming from someone who loves Gen 2 and 4 to death, it's obvious why they're the selected characters and I'm fine with that. I don't think Sakurai would/does care about representing generations, outside of Sun and Moon given the time frame and anniversary game, as he usually asks TPC and Game Freak which ones to throw in, or adds some he finds compelling.
I mean I'd love for a 'mon like Tyranitar or Genesect to get in, but that's a definite pipe dream at this point.
at least add Griseous Form Giratina to Spear Pillar in Palkia's place please?

Every gen gets a mon that gets more popular than others, they don't need to have muh gen 1 tier merit. Smash isn't Pokemon but at least let people have hope that they won't be ignored like Game Freak ignored them. Oh, and I'm still mad the only Gen V Mega was ****ing Audino instead of idk, Bisharp, Galvantula, Hydreigon, Haxorus, Accelgor, etc.

I mean at least Smash added something that Game Freak ignores on a frequent basis.
The female trainer.
(Hell, they even ignored them in Generations when May, Hilda, and Serena are arguably more recognizable than their male counterparts.)

 

[Enchess]

So similar to a few weeks ago, I'm gonna do a ratio thing comparing a franchise's amount of playable fighters to it's stages, but this time only stages confirmed to be in Smash Ultimate. There are 70 fighters (excluding ) and 100 stages (excluding Final Destination, Battlefield and Big Battlefield).

Like before, has no stages and Nintendo DS, Electroplankton, Tomodachi Life, Nintendogs, Balloon Fight, Wii Sports, Pilotwings, Wrecking Crew and Find Mii have no playable fighters. Miiverse was taken out completely...

4
3
2.25
2
1.5
1.33
1
0.78
0.43

Lots of moving around due to new characters and old stages getting cut (especially DK), but my boi still remains the highest stage-to-character ratio and Fire Emblem TANKED!!!

This is why I don't feel AC or F-Zero need another character (although I'd be all for them getting one). Also, DKC really needs a stage to replace Jungle Hijinx. Preferably Lockjaw's Locker, Gangplank Galleon, or a winter stage.

 

[TheGoobster]

Man I loved the Miiverse stage. Is there any chance it might come back? (Miiverse included)

 

[Zinith]

Oh ****, I forgot that Castlevania has 2 characters. I edited my post

 

[NintenRob]

Bandana Dee works with any Kirby stage

Any Pokemon could work for and stage

 

[WaxPython]

I'll never understand the gen 1 dislike.

Are the games perfect of course not. Is there a reason the staples set out in Gen 1 are STILL used in Pokemon today? Of course.

Gamefreak itself knows how much fans love gen 1 and I hope they work with Sakurai to give us Pokemon champion Blue.

A rival to Red is all that's missing, and I promise that gen 1 fans will be happy and then we can move on to other generations.

Pokemon from other gens id like to see are

Sceptile
Garchomp
Tyranitar
Salamance
Electrivre
Magmortar
Munchlax

As for gen v idk that team plasma created bug cyborg was cool idk the name but he can get in.

If people want to compromise by having Blue but using Pokemon from other gens like Heracross Electrivre etc then that's cool too.

On the other hand more gen 1 reps I'll be happy with

Gengar
Arcanine
Dragonite

Plenty to choose from. I just think we need a rival to Red and only gen 1 can satisfy that.

 

[Gumzilla]

So do you think the K Rool trailer is suggesting Punch-Out DK will be an alt for DK or is it just a nice easter egg? I hope it's the former.

 

[Iridium]

Whenever people talk about Gen 1 I always get the feeling that we old folks shouldn't like what we grew up on, like 20 years ago, and I'm just like "well ****, maybe they're right"

In other words Pokemon talk makes me feel old. Personally I couldn't care less about what Pokemon gets in past Gen III. I gave Sun & Moon a shot and honestly didn't really care for it. X and Y were fine and I didn't play any of the others... So, yeah, I support Decidueye and Inceneroar but if they don't get in I won't be tore up about it.

Eh, that's perfectly fair. I don't really favor one generation over the other to a significant degree. Definitely explains why I have a lot of favorites.

 

[Noipoi]

Exhibit A as to why Blastoise is ****ing rad:
View attachment 157916
Exhibit B:
Nothing, if Blastoise isn't already your favorite pokemon, I dunno what to do.

That's not a Poipole.
Also Charizard's a dragon, end of story.

 

[TheGoobster]

I'll never understand the gen 1 dislike.

Are the games perfect of course not. Is there a reason the staples set out in Gen 1 are STILL used in Pokemon today? Of course.

Gamefrewk itself knows how much fans love gen 1 and I hope they work with Sakurai to give us Pokemon champion Blue.

A rival to Red is all that's missing, and I promise that gen 1 fans will be happy and then we can move on to other generations.

Pokemon from other gens id like to see are

Sceptile
Garchomp
Tyranitar
Salamance
Electrivre
Magmortar
Munchlax

As for gen v idk that team plasma created bug cyborg was cool idk the name but he can get in.

If people want to compromise by having Blue but using Pokemon from other gens like Heracross Electrivre etc then that's cool too.

On the other hand more gen 1 reps I'll be happy with

Gengar
Arcanine
Dragonite

Plenty to choose from. I just think we need a rival to Red and only gen 1 can satisfy that.

Dude, nothing is wrong with gen 1. It's the PEOPLE who think gen 1 is the best and only gen there is. They constantly argue with other people that may think otherwise. And that's pretty damn annoying.

 

[Enchess]

I'll never understand the gen 1 dislike.

Most of the people arguing with you like Gen 1. I personally love it a lot. We just like the other gens too. The problem is those games are forever stuck being with Gen 1, which drastically reduces their chance of getting their best Pokemon in purely because they are newer and thus not nostalgic. I genuinely believe Gen V has quite a few of the best designed Pokemon, but they'll never get a chance to be in Smash because it's always gonna be sandwiched between the nostalgia of Gen 1 and the latest entry. I truly don't think it would matter how good a Pokemon was. Frankly, if Pikachu was a Gen V Pkmn, I doubt he'd get in because he wouldn't be "the original"

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm just glad some of the old stages returning means that the Pokemon stages now have access to gen 1 music.

I know every gen has their own themes but I think I'll always remember the first gen battle music the most

 

[papagenos]

On the subject of repping Pokemon Gens:

The Zelda series for ultimate got totally overhauled to represent seemingly many different Zelda games with its cast of characters.

Obviously this was intentional and has the logic of representing many Zelda games so that its more likely someone playing smash will have someone in that cast of Zelda characters that will be from a game they potentially have played. Not everyone has played all the zelda games and stuff like hardcore nintendo fans OR younger fans might not know the older games and older fans may not have kept up with the series and can appreciate nods to ocarina of time/or link to the past/link between worlds (kinda the same design).

This same train of thought COULD lead to trying to rep all the Pokemon gens or as many as possible anyway. Theres a precedence already for ultimate to be trying to represent as many games as possible in a series with a long history of games and large cast of characters like zelda or pokemon.

 

[vaanrose]

Real talk, tho, gen 1 has been "pandered to" so heavily the last few years because the kids who played gen 1 are all grown up and have kids themselves. That's the reason Let's Go is what it is.

 

[Noipoi]

It's not a matter of hating Kanto for me, it's a matter of no other Pokemon generations getting any love.
Yes it's the first one, yes it's the most iconic, but if you happen to like a generation that isn't Kanto you start to feel left out.
Especially when Gamefreak themselves think Kanto is the only region that exists.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Real talk, tho, gen 1 has been "pandered to" so heavily the last few years because the kids who played gen 1 are all grown up and have kids themselves. That's the reason Let's Go is what it is.

I want to be able to play Platinum or Sapphire remakes with my kids should I get any then *pout*