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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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N3ON

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Did you consider that the reason Cloud got minimal treatment is likely because he was exponentially more expensive to acquire than a character like Bayonetta? Therefore they went with next to the bare minimum when it comes to necessary content. Especially considering the budget for DLC must’ve been more limited. Knowing how Square treats Cloud and their general IPs, it’s not a huge stretch.

I really don’t think the lack of content will have much bearing on Cloud’s chances at returning, which are murky imo, but for different reasons.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Did you consider that the reason Cloud got minimal treatment is likely because he was exponentially more expensive to acquire than a character like Bayonetta? Therefore they went with next to the bare minimum when it comes to necessary content. Especially considering the budget for DLC must’ve been more limited. Knowing how Square treats Cloud and their general IPs, it’s not a huge stretch.

I really don’t think the lack of content will have much bearing on Cloud’s chances at returning, which are murky imo, but for different reasons.
Exactly this. Getting more FF content is generally hard cause SE asks for a lot of money. Maybe as a base game character we could get more content, but the DLC amount made some sense. Ryu wasn't much better off either.
 

Cosmic77

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Did you consider that the reason Cloud got minimal treatment is likely because he was exponentially more expensive to acquire than a character like Bayonetta? Therefore they went with next to the bare minimum when it comes to necessary content. Knowing how Square treats Cloud and their general IPs, it’s not a huge stretch.

I really don’t think the lack of content will have much bearing on Cloud’s chances at returning, which are murky imo, but for different reasons.
This would further support the theory that Cloud was the reason why the last three amiibo took over a year and a half to get. Quite a few people in the amiibo community (Yes, amiibo collectors still exist) theorized that Nintendo and Square Enix couldn't come to an agreement on how much of the money would be divided between the two for each Cloud amiibo sale.

If money really was the issue here, I wouldn't even waste my time with Cloud in the next Smash. People are only going to want more third-party characters, and Nintendo will have to shell out a lot of money just to keep the ones we already have on the initial roster. I'd rather see them spend the money on a new and cheaper character(s) instead of one of the five third-party veterans we got in Smash 4.
 

Bowserlick

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Mii could simplify. The face is still custom-made from your Mii. The 'A' moveset could be a mix of moves from the assortment among the three fighters. The moveset is fairly fixed except for Smashes and Specials.

The player picks three different body gear. Head/Arms/Legs. Each one corresponds to a Smash and a special. The Arm gear would have a Brawler fist/ swordsman's blade/ and Gunner's blaster as an option to pick. The Arm would change the Forward Smash and Toward B. The Head would change the Up Smash and Up B. The Legs switch the Down Smash and Down B.

After those three are selected, a B move can be selected. Visually the B move would add a component to the character you created.

* This system could allow semi-characters as DLC. For example the Pokemon Trainer Bundle can add a Pokemon Cap, Pokemon Gloves and Pokemon Sneakers as body gear as well as the Pokeball (for a B special). This would give the standard Mii fighter pokemon themed Specials and Smashes while keeping the character stats and more broad 'A' Moveset.
 
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D

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NonSpecificGuy said something about Cloud that I agree wtih:
Cloud is not as unlikely to return as I feel most people point out. There's no obvious reason to assume Square-Enix didn't support his inclusion. People sometimes bring up the music? I think that's because of the rush to get him in. He was shown and then released like 3 weeks apart. Square-Enix has supported Switch just fine and I don't think the fact there's no mainline FF games on Switch yet makes him unlikely. He's a big deal and I'm sure Square-Enix will try to keep him in at all costs come next game, especially if FFVII Remake is soon.
I feel like all third parties ( except Snake ) have a good shot of making in for Smash for Switch. If the companies were fine with them on the first one and there was no problems with it, why not add them again? Plus, Sakurai could sympathize for the fans and try to add Cloud. Plus, Cloud is a very iconic gaming character that a lot of people like.
 

Cosmic77

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I feel like all third parties ( except Snake ) have a good shot of making in for Smash for Switch. If the companies were fine with them on the first one and there was no problems with it, why not add them again?
Because getting permission isn't the only issue with third-parties. You also have to consider how much money is costs to keep all six characters and to add more on top of that. There's bound to be more third-party characters, so shoving out a few old ones to make room in the budget for some new faces isn't entirely impossible.
 
D

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Because getting permission isn't the only issue with third-parties. You also have to consider how much money is costs to keep all six characters and to add more on top of that. There's bound to be more third-party characters, so shoving out a few old ones to make room in the budget for some new faces isn't entirely impossible.
Keep in mind that Nintendo has ten billion dollars, I am sure that they are find. + to understand Sakurai and Nintendo, they try their best to appeal to the fans.
 

Cosmic77

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Keep in mind that Nintendo has ten billion dollars, I am sure that they are find. + to understand Sakurai and Nintendo, they try their best to appeal to the fans.
A business is a business. If an abundance of third-party characters starts eating away at their profits, they aren't going to hesitate to fix the problem. That's part of the reason why Nintendo killed off Miiverse in November and will start charging money for their formerly free online services. Drop what isn't making you money and charge people for your services.

The new Nintendo president doesn't seem to take profit losses lightly.
 
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NintenRob

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So what if, Sakurai just loses his mind and unleashes his super dev skills

Every character returns from any Smash returns
Any character with an amiibo is playable
Every moveset from Hyrule Warriors is playable
Every character from Fire Emblem Warriors is playable
Every character ever to be playable in a Mario game is playable (including Mario Maker costumes)
Every character to be playable in Kirby is playable
Every character from ARMS is playable
Every weapon in Splatoon series has its own moveset.
Every weapon class in kid Icarus Uprising is playable
Every playable character in Xenoblade is playable
Every playable character in the earthbound games is playable
Every F-Zero racer is playable
Every bounty hunter from Metroid is playable
Every Pokemon from Pokken is playable
Every potential Pokemon Mystery Dungeon starter is playable
Every Legendary Pokemon is playable
Every Star Fox and Star Wolf member is playable
Every playable character from Pikmin is playable
Every character from the Sega all stars games is playable
Every Capcom character from the Capcom Vs games is playable
Every punch out boxer is playable
Every Mii Costume based on character, that character becomes playable
Every playable character from project X zone series is playable


Who do you want to play as the most?
 
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Mega Bidoof

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So what if, Sakurai just loses his mind and unleashes his super dev skills

Every character returns from any Smash returns
Any character with an amiibo is playable
Every moveset from Hyrule Warriors is playable
Every character from Fire Emblem Warriors is playable
Every character ever to be playable in a Mario game is playable (including Mario Maker costumes)
Every character to be playable in Kirby is playable
Every character from ARMS is playable
Every weapon in Splatoon series has its own moveset.
Every weapon class in kid Icarus Uprising is playable
Every playable character in Xenoblade is playable
Every playable character in the earthbound games is playable
Every F-Zero racer is playable
Every bounty hunter from Metroid is playable
Every Pokemon from Pokken is playable
Every potential Pokemon Mystery Dungeon starter is playable
Every Legendary Pokemon is playable
Every Star Fox and Star Wolf member is playable
Every playable character from Pikmin is playable
Every character from the Sega all stars games is playable
Every Capcom character from the Capcom Vs games is playable
Every punch out boxer is playable
Every Mii Costume based on character, that character becomes playable
Every playable character from project X zone series is playable


Who do you want to the most?
Every character with an amiibo. It offers the most variety out of the choices. Brings back every Smash 4 character in addition to a bunch of cool newcomers like Waluigi, Toad, Shovel Knight, all 4 BotW Champions, A GUARDIAN, Majora's Mask Link with transformation masks, just to make a few. If only they made Ridley and K. Rool amiibo...

A business is a business. If an abundance of third-party characters starts eating away at their profits, they aren't going to hesitate to fix the problem. That's part of the reason why Nintendo killed off Miiverse in November and will start charging money for their formerly free online services. Drop what isn't making you money and charge people for your services.

The new Nintendo president doesn't seem to take profit losses lightly.
Also just to go along with your Miiverse point, they're scrapping Miitomo this year, which has only been out for less than 3 years.
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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So Miitomo is getting axed. Never used it before, so no hard loss there. Still, I do think it's surprising to see Nintendo just drop it. First Miiverse, and now Miitomo; they've basically shoved aside everything Mii-centered. Now I'm really starting to wonder just how much Miis will be used in the Switch's lifespan. So far, they've only shown up as Switch profile icons and in the MK8 port. If they keep this up, and if customization gets dropped, Miis might actually be in danger for the next Smash.
Honestly I think Mii Fighters are gonna be cut in the next Smash considering how downplayed they are on the Switch. Really the only Switch game I've seen them play an extensive role in was Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, and that was a port.

If fact, I'd go as far as to say that the next generation console Nintendo releases axes Miis entirely. The concept of an avatar may still be there, but Miis themselves will be gone.
 

Opossum

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So what if, Sakurai just loses his mind and unleashes his super dev skills

Every character returns from any Smash returns
Any character with an amiibo is playable
Every moveset from Hyrule Warriors is playable
Every character from Fire Emblem Warriors is playable
Every character ever to be playable in a Mario game is playable (including Mario Maker costumes)
Every character to be playable in Kirby is playable
Every character from ARMS is playable
Every weapon in Splatoon series has its own moveset.
Every weapon class in kid Icarus Uprising is playable
Every playable character in Xenoblade is playable
Every playable character in the earthbound games is playable
Every F-Zero racer is playable
Every bounty hunter from Metroid is playable
Every Pokemon from Pokken is playable
Every potential Pokemon Mystery Dungeon starter is playable
Every Legendary Pokemon is playable
Every Star Fox and Star Wolf member is playable
Every playable character from Pikmin is playable
Every character from the Sega all stars games is playable
Every Capcom character from the Capcom Vs games is playable
Every punch out boxer is playable
Every Mii Costume based on character, that character becomes playable
Every playable character from project X zone series is playable


Who do you want to the most?
Number four because I'm selfish as hell and would get Chrom, Celica, Caeda, Tiki, and Frederick all in one go.
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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Every character with an amiibo. It offers the most variety out of the choices. Brings back every Smash 4 character in addition to a bunch of cool newcomers like Waluigi, Toad, Shovel Knight, all 4 BotW Champions, A GUARDIAN, Majora's Mask Link with transformation masks, just to make a few. If only they made Ridley and K. Rool amiibo...
While that is true, we'd get an ABUNDANCE of Animal Crossing characters if amiibo cards are also taken into account.

...I'd have no issues with that as we'd have Isabelle but still something to note.
 

NintenRob

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I think you misunderstood me.

It wasn't a what if he did one of them.

It's what if he did ALL OF THEM!!!!!! :surprised:
 

Schnee117

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So what if, Sakurai just loses his mind and unleashes his super dev skills

Every character returns from any Smash returns
Any character with an amiibo is playable
Every moveset from Hyrule Warriors is playable
Every character from Fire Emblem Warriors is playable
Every character ever to be playable in a Mario game is playable (including Mario Maker costumes)
Every character to be playable in Kirby is playable
Every character from ARMS is playable
Every weapon in Splatoon series has its own moveset.
Every weapon class in kid Icarus Uprising is playable
Every playable character in Xenoblade is playable
Every playable character in the earthbound games is playable
Every F-Zero racer is playable
Every bounty hunter from Metroid is playable
Every Pokemon from Pokken is playable
Every potential Pokemon Mystery Dungeon starter is playable
Every Legendary Pokemon is playable
Every Star Fox and Star Wolf member is playable
Every playable character from Pikmin is playable
Every character from the Sega all stars games is playable
Every Capcom character from the Capcom Vs games is playable
Every punch out boxer is playable
Every Mii Costume based on character, that character becomes playable
Every playable character from project X zone series is playable


Who do you want to the most?
Dat last one though.



Kiryu Kazuma, Chrom, Goro Majima, Dante, Vergil, X, Zero, Captain Commando, Segata Sanshiro, Yuri Lowell, Morrigan, Alisa, Ciel, KOS-MOS, Fiora, Vashyron, Chris, Jill, Leon, Lindow, Frank West, Batsu and Strider among many others.

 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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So what if, Sakurai just loses his mind and unleashes his super dev skills

Every character returns from any Smash returns
Any character with an amiibo is playable
Every moveset from Hyrule Warriors is playable
Every character from Fire Emblem Warriors is playable
Every character ever to be playable in a Mario game is playable (including Mario Maker costumes)
Every character to be playable in Kirby is playable
Every character from ARMS is playable
Every weapon in Splatoon series has its own moveset.
Every weapon class in kid Icarus Uprising is playable
Every playable character in Xenoblade is playable
Every playable character in the earthbound games is playable
Every F-Zero racer is playable
Every bounty hunter from Metroid is playable
Every Pokemon from Pokken is playable
Every potential Pokemon Mystery Dungeon starter is playable
Every Legendary Pokemon is playable
Every Star Fox and Star Wolf member is playable
Every playable character from Pikmin is playable
Every character from the Sega all stars games is playable
Every Capcom character from the Capcom Vs games is playable
Every punch out boxer is playable
Every Mii Costume based on character, that character becomes playable
Every playable character from project X zone series is playable


Who do you want to the most?
I'd just burn the game because it would be an unbalanced mess.
 

Dragoncharystary

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So Miitomo is getting axed. Never used it before, so no hard loss there. Still, I do think it's surprising to see Nintendo just drop it. First Miiverse, and now Miitomo; they've basically shoved aside everything Mii-centered. Now I'm really starting to wonder just how much Miis will be used in the Switch's lifespan. So far, they've only shown up as Switch profile icons and in the MK8 port. If they keep this up, and if customization gets dropped, Miis might actually be in danger for the next Smash.
Well, maybe Nintendo is pushing aside the Miis, but I don't think the shutdown of Miitomo or Miiverse indicate that happening. Miitomo was really just an app Nintendo put out there to test the waters of the mobile market. It didn't prove to be much in the way of a success so it made sense for Nintendo to shut it down now and not exhaust anymore resources on it. In Miiverse's case, it never really amounted to much besides comments on Super Mario Maker levels. Since the Wii U is done and the 3DS is on it's last breath, it also didn't make a lot of sense to keep it around since they decided not to bring it to the Switch due to it only being a moderate success. Again, maybe Nintendo is trying to drop the miis, but neither Miitomo or Miiverse indicates that. On a side note Miitopia only came out 6 months ago in the US and if I remember correctly it did surprisingly well, so the mii games definitely aren't dead yet.
 

Iddis

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New mechanic idea: a reverse Lucario that starts out really strong and gets weaker as they take more damage.
This was more or less my idea for Arthur from Super Ghouls N' Ghosts, armor breaking at a certain point changing speed and weight too. Was my ballot vote and even had enough to characters to explain it and everything, haha
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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This was more or less my idea for Arthur from Super Ghouls N' Ghosts, armor breaking at a certain point changing speed and weight too. Was my ballot vote and everything, haha
Funnily enough weapon and armor braking was planned to be a thing in Brawl; things like Meta Knight's mask and Link's Master Sword would break during battle, but the mechanic was scraped.

It's an interesting idea and would have made the game more interesting, but I can see why it was axed. :4robinf: kinda has this mechanic but not quite to the same extent.
 
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Bowserlick

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IDEA: Mii's should have three new categories to replace the old ones. Pokemon Trainer, Labo Armored, {insert third here}

And I would argue that only the Smash and specials should change and these could be mixed and matched. *A stat bonus can be given if you complete the set, such as all Pokemon Trainer Smashes and Specials.

*The new categories were picked to represent interactive Nintendo products: Trainer representing Pokemon Go & Labo standing in for Labo
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Number four because I'm selfish as hell and would get Chrom, Celica, Caeda, Tiki, and Frederick all in one go.
You and I relate. You got me into the Fire Emblem series ( so did Swamp and others ), and they would be nice on the go. We need Chrom, not a costume.
( No Viridi, Chrom would not be an Ike Clone ).
I would chose the fourth one as well.
 

Nonno Umby

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People, there is no way that the Mii Fighters will be cut. Maybe Miiverse and Miitomo are closing down, but remember that those were social apps rather than real games. Besides the fact that they added several new colors in the Switch Mii Maker app, Tomodachi Life sold 5.57 M copies, and Miitopia sold almost a million copies. These are amazing numbers. Before axing them, they would try to make a sequel to Tomodachi Life.
 

Cosmic77

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People, there is no way that the Mii Fighters will be cut. Maybe Miiverse and Miitomo are closing down, but remember that those were social apps rather than real games. Besides the fact that they added several new colors in the Switch Mii Maker app, Tomodachi Life sold 5.57 M copies, and Miitopia sold almost a million copies. These are amazing numbers. Before axing them, they would try to make a sequel to Tomodachi Life.
You have at least think it's weird that the Switch is turning a year old and the Miis haven't been used in any of it's new games. That's a long time for Nintendo. Not saying Nintendo won't do anything in the future with their precious Miis, but for now, they'll be taking a break.

And just to be clear, I don't think the Miis are getting cut. People really like customizing characters they can play as, so unless customization is entirely abandoned in the next game, I'm sure they'll be fine.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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We should all be thankful that the Mii's inclusion in Smash 3DS / Wii U has opened the door to fighter customization. However, the way that Smash 3DS / Wii U handled fighter customization proved to be too distasteful for the competitive scene, so that will have to be worked on more.

And of course, in the case of the custom special moves, impractical moves can't be tolerated at all.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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So basically cut Miis and replace them with Miis that are Miis in everything but in name? I think I pass on that idea.


This got me thinking though, when people talk about a Smash port they usually discuss new characters and stages. I don't know if this has been brought up already but I would personally like some quality of life features. Having all customs unlocked from the start or at least provide in-game store where you can spend your coins on them. It would also be nice if the DLC characters got their own custom moves as well.
Allow Miis to be used online with anyone with their default movesets and stats at least. Miis brought so much potential but they are criminally underused. They could also expand the list of game modes for online to have at least one that allows use of custom moves.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Allow Miis to be used online with anyone with their default movesets and stats at least. Miis brought so much potential but they are criminally underused. They could also expand the list of game modes for online to have at least one that allows use of custom moves.
The problem was more the fact you could make your Miis look inappropriate moreso than the customs themselves(which is still an issue, also partially due to copyright problems that can come up). It's why they actually can't allow it, to avoid being sued. Default movesets sound boringgggg though. It ruins their point, since they have no true default specials. Forcing default faces would be better, though.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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The problem was more the fact you could make your Miis look inappropriate moreso than the customs themselves(which is still an issue, also partially due to copyright problems that can come up). It's why they actually can't allow it, to avoid being sued. Default movesets sound boringgggg though. It ruins their point, since they have no true default specials. Forcing default faces would be better, though.
Yeah that's one of the biggest problems with the Mii fighters. Despite having a lot of customization features, the fact that people can compose inappropriate things with them can likely explain why you can't use them in random online matches.

Also, players have made their Miis resemble characters that are not Nintendo's property, so banning Miis from online play may also help Nintendo avoid potential copyright infringement issues.

However, despite the precautions, we do need to keep in mind that we are allowed to use our Miis in Mario Kart 8's online races.
 

Krysco

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The problem was more the fact you could make your Miis look inappropriate moreso than the customs themselves(which is still an issue, also partially due to copyright problems that can come up). It's why they actually can't allow it, to avoid being sued. Default movesets sound boringgggg though. It ruins their point, since they have no true default specials. Forcing default faces would be better, though.
Really? Copyright is an issue for online play? Like if someone made a Mii with a resemblance to James Bond for example? If that's the case, that's interesting. Reminds me of how tournaments sponsored by Nintendo couldn't have certain Omegas legal due to the music that plays on the stages. Or do you mean in some other way? I do also find it odd how the whole 'offensive Miis' was an issue since online, you can still see the Mii that goes with the account/profile that they're on on their Wii U
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Really? Copyright is an issue for online play? Like if someone made a Mii with a resemblance to James Bond for example? If that's the case, that's interesting. Reminds me of how tournaments sponsored by Nintendo couldn't have certain Omegas legal due to the music that plays on the stages. Or do you mean in some other way? I do also find it odd how the whole 'offensive Miis' was an issue since online, you can still see the Mii that goes with the account/profile that they're on on their Wii U
Yep. They can be sued. The inappropriate ones are less of an issue than the copyright problem, but still one.

Yeah that's one of the biggest problems with the Mii fighters. Despite having a lot of customization features, the fact that people can compose inappropriate things with them can likely explain why you can't use them in random online matches.

Also, players have made their Miis resemble characters that are not Nintendo's property, so banning Miis from online play may also help Nintendo avoid potential copyright infringement issues.

However, despite the precautions, we do need to keep in mind that we are allowed to use our Miis in Mario Kart 8's online races.
Honestly, that was something Nintendo made an error on with MK8. It should've forced default Miis in that case.
 
D

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We should all be thankful that the Mii's inclusion in Smash 3DS / Wii U has opened the door to fighter customization. However, the way that Smash 3DS / Wii U handled fighter customization proved to be too distasteful for the competitive scene, so that will have to be worked on more.

And of course, in the case of the custom special moves, impractical moves can't be tolerated at all.
Pikachu would have been top tier if custom moves were allowed. Some were extremely uselss ( Jigglypuff's Spinphony is literally a joke ) and some are kind of over-powered in a bit ( Pikachu's Heavy Skull Bash being almost a kill confirm which can kill at somewhat low percents even, by using up air to that move ). It is also a really good recovery option. Source is here ( ESAM Video ).

Either way, custom moves are good for casual. I do agree that the competitive scene should either try it out or the developer ( hopefully Sakurai ) will fix the custom move-sets to make them more viable.
 
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D

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I believe that they should give Pac-Man and Sonic better skins ( Pac-Man would be confusing to animate and it would look weird, but still ). A top hat for Pac-Man or something?
No. Better than Miis. Face it, they look bad.
I one hundred percent agree with Opossum Opossum , I will take the current Smash Brothers Miis over your ideas any day.
 
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Cosmic77

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If Nintendo can get sued for Miis, they haven't been concerned in the slightest. You can play as your Mii online in MK Wii, 7, and 8, all of which allow racers to play with their inappropriately designed and third-party Miis. And MK isn't the only series to have done this. Games like Mario Sports Mix and AC: New Leaf also allow you to go online and use any Mii you want. If copyrights are an issue in Smash, I'd like to know why that's seemingly the only game it's been applied to.
 
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Lukingordex

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I had an idea about Miis sometime ago and wonder what do you guys think

What if Miis were similar to their Mario Kart Wii counterpart?

By that I mean: The Mii would have a completely different moveset and stats depending on his size.
3 sizes would be possible: small, medium and large, just like MKWii. Each size would simply have a moveset and that's it, no costumization on moveset would be possible. That would create 3 different characters that would be very easy to allow at tournaments and wouldn't just be bad because of a moveset limitation (1111).

Honestly the big point about playing miis for casual players is the fact they're... miis. You can play as yourself or your favorite character that didn't make it to the roster or whatever; that's the highlight point of the miis, not the customization. I really think the majority of people would be fine if Miis became like that instead of that customization mess that did nothing other than complicate their situation on the competitive community
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

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The problem was more the fact you could make your Miis look inappropriate moreso than the customs themselves(which is still an issue, also partially due to copyright problems that can come up). It's why they actually can't allow it, to avoid being sued. Default movesets sound boringgggg though. It ruins their point, since they have no true default specials. Forcing default faces would be better, though.
I forgot about the face thing. They could force default ones as you said, but forcing the default movesets might be a concession that we have to accept if they were to be allowed online.
 

Freduardo

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New gameplay mechanic:

Commander Video, representing endless runners, takes damage when standing still.

Keep moving.
 
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