Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pokechu]

According to the popularity poll that Greninja won a few years back, Gothitelle isn't doing so hot, like it ranked down around the 400s out of the 700ish Pokemon at the time. In this specific situation I'd say Gothitelle's inclusion is warranted due to being the only Gen 5 Pokemon capable of being an easy echo. Like Ivysaur it's inclusion will be based around accurately showing off the Pokemon games instead of just popularity, only with Gens instead of starter Evos.

I don't think it was quite a real popularity poll, people voting knew there was going to be a distribution; that explains why many Legendaries scored so high. And because of this, we can't hold it against Gothitelle because it's unlikely people would want to vote for her when they can just find her in the wild.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That guy is so fired.

It was from 3 years ago and they still work there

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's my predictions.

There's up to four fully new characters left.
There will be no more new third party series added but existing series may be expanded. (includes Geno->Mario)
If Geno is in, he will be the final announcement.
Splatoon will remain the most recent series. (Sorry Spring Man)
The only character that came out later than Corrin will be a Gen 7 Pokemon (Sorry Rex/Pyra)
The only Nintendo series that can make the jump to playable is Golden Sun but if so it will lack a stage.
Besides the potential of Isaac, the remaining characters will be from Nintendo's big series.

 

[MrSmashFour]

Right? I don't really see any reason to trust him at this point. Now if Vergeben said it, it'd be a different story.

...People still trust Verg? I'd trust Loz over him

 

[Iridium]

That guy is so fired.

Imagine if they added Vivian and not Geno into Smash. Oh, the outrage!

 

[Pakky]

Aw geez, I’m sick of both Pokemon and Skull Kid talk....

Here’s something else to bring up: What alternate costumes would you give most of the characters?

-Mr L.
- Atleast two Odyssey outfits ala Mario
-Sport outfit
- Classic OoT/Smash tunic
- BOTW outfit, Warriors outfit
- Tuxedo
- No helmet
- Pajamas
-Backwards cap, shades, and bling.

- Nun
- All of the personas
-Boxing gloves
-Notch ear
-Drag
-Pikmin version
-Sports wear
-Sports wear
- green hair pink outfit
-Sports wear
-Fedora
- Mr. L
-Sunshine
-No mask
-Armor
-Green/Blue
-Conductor, Island
-Gold's outfit
-Wedding, Cat
-Boshi

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Maybe but think about it like this... Why wasn't Inkling in Smash 4? It was by far the breakout series for the Wii U and demand was really high for DLC. They were still skipped over, however. I feel like Sakurai has done this a lot in Smash history. In Brawl, technically all the newcomers except Toon Link, Olimar, and Lucario came from the post 64 Smash poll. Characters like Wario, Dedede, Diddy, etc were very glaring omissions in Melee despite how well they did in the post 64 Smash poll. Like I pointed out earlier all the newcomers in Ultimate so far aside from Inkling have long, fandom histories, even if it wasn't apparent in the Smash Community.

For someone like Spring Man, Ultimate is hardly a make or break situation. The game was a success and it'll probably stay as the main breakout franchise for the Switch era. The "Spring Man for Smash" fandom is roughly a year old... It won't suddenly die if he misses out. I could say the same thing about Rex and Pyra. Xenoblade 2 has already outsold the original and some argue that it's even a better game. That's another character fanbase that's not going to evaporate. Both characters will likely be in demand until they are added. In conclusion, Sakurai going hardcore on the back catalogue of fan demands is probably a good thing and ultimately pushes newer characters closer to the top for future games.

To be entirely fair here. We know that Smash Ultimate started Development before Smash 4's dlc even ended. So in the regard it made sense to hold off on Inklings. Since they already knew at that point they were already going to be making a new game and relatively soon too.

I feel like we are defintely not getting another smash game any time soon after Smash Ultimate.

 

[Staarih]

Wahhhh

What I get from this is that he knows there’s a Direct in November (as we all expect) but not sure if it’s the only one, so we could still get something in between.

 

[Iridium]

- Nun
- All of the personas
-Boxing gloves
-Notch ear
-Drag
-Pikmin version
-Sports wear
-Sports wear
- green hair pink outfit
-Sports wear
-Fedora
- Mr. L
-Sunshine
-No mask
-Armor
-Green/Blue
-Conductor, Island
-Gold's outfit
-Wedding, Cat
-Boshi

Wait, didn't Pac-Man have a son in the cartoons? Oh, cartoons back then were just weird. I swear I remember him having a child, but you can say it's not really canon.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I’m fine with no direct until then.

Besides by then hype will reach top levels for pretty much everyone.

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]

Everytime I goto the Pokemon Global Link website I always see incineroar as the favorite in Pokemon Refresh.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say it would probably be wise to treat both Loz's and Verge's statements with a healthy amount of skepticism. Just because they got some things right doesn't necessarily mean everything they say will happen. Gematsu is an excellent example of this; there's always dud info mixed in with good info with text leaks like this. It's best to just wait it out and see what happens, IMO.

For me personally, the only leak I'm paying attention to right now is Verge's Isabelle leak. To me, there's a lot of stuff pointing towards it being true. I don't think his Pokemon stuff is legit, though, and I'm VERY skeptical of Loz's Skull Kid stuff...Time will tell, I guess.

 

[sdpdude9]

It's perfectly logical to think there won't be a large info dump until shortly before release. I however do believe there will be another general direct between now and November that will show a character or two.

 

[StormC]

Still think we can get a General Direct in Septemberish with one reveal. loz has gotten a lot of info right but he isn't god.

Nintendo still has announcements they're sitting on for this year, they aren't gonna wait until November for that.

 

[Pakky]

I think Loz is full of poo!

We're getting a big fat thing on Smash in October.

 

[Iridium]

Wait, didn't Pac-Man have a son in the cartoons? Oh, cartoons back then were just weird. I swear I remember him having a child, but you can say it's not really canon.

Okay, I just checked, and Pac-Baby (lame name) has appeared as both a boy and girl (somehow), and also has appeared in Pac-Man video games too! Well, that was the weirdest research I've done so far . . .

 

[Lodestar65]

Okay, I just checked, and Pac-Baby (lame name) has appeared as both a boy and girl (somehow), and also has appeared in Pac-Man video games too! Well, that was the weirdest research I've done so far . . .

What happens when Pac-Baby grows up?

 

[Pyra]

I think Loz is full of poo!

We're getting a big fat thing on Smash in October.

Imagine- we get a Smash dump in October and very early December, and Isabelle is confirmed as an AT in the October one

The chaos of the people holding closely to either leaker will be kinda funny

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I wonder if it's just going to be a big character reveal direct with like 4 newcomers and some echoes or if we're really down to just 2 more newcomers and 2 more echoes like the last direct

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Aw geez, I’m sick of both Pokemon and Skull Kid talk....

Here’s something else to bring up: What alternate costumes would you give most of the characters?

-Mr L.
- Atleast two Odyssey outfits ala Mario
-Sport outfit
- Classic OoT/Smash tunic
- BOTW outfit, Warriors outfit
- Tuxedo
- No helmet
- Pajamas
-Backwards cap, shades, and bling.

- Mr. L
- Shadow Queen, Oddyssey hat and dress, Oddyssey winter coat
- Miss Cloud His 012 outfit when he was a Chaos Warrior in a previous cycle
- Bearded
- Labcoat disguise (reference to Snake Eater)
- SA-X
- Biker
- true Masked Man
- Glorious Archer (Heroes)
- shirtless I meAN UH Helmetless
- Gerudo disguise from BOTW
- Ms. Pac-Man (apologies to those who wanted her as an echo)
- Tennis outfit
- Great Lord
- Ganon’s Puppet inspired design (overall rest of body still has the ALBW design, just has the skin discoloration and eye color change)
- Retro Design (green hair)
- Pandora inspired dress
- Wedding tux
- Pajamas

 

[MainJPW]

You say it as if it obvious, because it is, but people keep acting like something will never happen because it hasn't happened. That's not exactly how things work

Alright, okay okay... I hope to see a Captain Toad, a Tails, a Lip and a Viridi announced before the game launches.

 

[Iridium]

What happens when Pac-Baby grows up?

Uh, well, you see . . .


Nothing. Seriously, he/she hasn't grown up, literally. I imagine Pac-Man basically would multiply, and Pac-Woman (not necessarily married) would multiply as well.

 

[Kuon]

I just looked at the "leak" about the August direct and:

-While the menu was shown, the menu was only revealed at the end of the direct, and the only sub-menu we saw was the multiplayer one, not the option menu like said.
-He said 3 modes will be shown beside All-Star Mode, only 2 new modes were shown and All-Star wasn't hinted at all.
-Tournament mode is back so good one on him but...
-The new mode to unlock character wasn't revealed at all, only teased. (and even then, we don't know if it's the only way to unlock characters)

Tho, I may be reading some lines wrong, so here is the info he showed to be sure.

• The Nintendo Direct will come around August
• Info will be shown from the title screen to the menu options.
• Three modes will be shown besides All-Star Mode.
• Tournament mode is returning.
• The new mode will be revealed and it will be the primary way to unlock characters.

But yeah, he doesn't seem to be as reliable like Verg is at the moment.

Guessing that a Smash Direct would be in August is easy. Heck, I was expecting one in August, and I'm expecting one in October (even though he said November), so him saying there's one in August doesn't prove he's legit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought multiple people were talking about Sakurai showing off the menu and different options. He could've been piggybacking off of them, or they could've been piggybacking off of him. I think Tournament mode was kind of expected to return, so that's not really a surprise (in fact, I actually thought that it was in all of the games, but apparently it was only in Melee?). And Sakurai didn't mention anything about unlocking characters, I think. So yeah he definitely got some stuff wrong. Either he had sources for E3 and no longer has them (hence why he went into hiding for a bit), or his sources got some stuff wrong. Either way, saying there's a Direct in November is a very vague statement. If he gave an exact date it'd be different, but I think he's just guessing at this point.

...People still trust Verg? I'd trust Loz over him

What makes you say that? Why is Vergeben no longer credible?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Loz’s “information” after the direct has been mostly speculation, but not actual rumors from his sources.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

My predictions for the next direct would be the unveiling of the “spirits” mode and a few more characters. 2 more unique characters and echos seems like a safe guess but we might get a bit less than that. I think October to around mid November would be a reasonable time for the direct to drop.

 

[Pyra]

Alright, okay okay... I hope to see a Captain Toad, a Tails, a Lip and a Viridi announced before the game launches.

That sonic for a sonic echo fighter please

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Wait, didn't Pac-Man have a son in the cartoons? Oh, cartoons back then were just weird. I swear I remember him having a child, but you can say it's not really canon.

That's because Baby Pac-Man was a real game

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Important details from loz18 that many will miss because they don't read:

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And on a different topic, hearing people say Gothitelle is irrelevant and Sakurai wouldn't put in a Pokemon to fill out a quota.

*Ah-hem*

Filling a quota != fulfilling a gimmick.

Ivy was added because Sakurai wanted a swtiching mechanic for starters, and it didn’t make sense to have all of them as heavies, so he put in Squirtle instead of Blastoise. And woth Charizard and Squirtle, Ivy made sense to finish the type effectiveness triangle and be a middle stage when the other two were there. I’m sure that if it came out where he said “I’m making a switching character using Charizard, Squirtle, and one other Pokémon. Who should be the third?” Ivy would be the obvious choice.

Gothitelle is a suggestion because “we totes should have a gen 5 rep and she’d fit Gardevoir’s skeleton as a tall thin woman!” And people are assuming Gardevoir would get added because again, “we don’t have a gen 3 rep!”

If he did add based on quotas, the Trainer would have had Charizard, Croconaw, and Treecko back in Brawl, and Zoroark would have joined in Sm4sh.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

An odd time to talk post game but I'm going to do so.

If Octoling isn't in the base game, they'll be a free update down the line as an Echo.
If a Gen 7 Pokemon isn't in game (replaced by Gardevoir/Gothitelle or no mon at all) it will be one of the first DLCs, if the not the first.
ARMS has proven itself as a Nintendo series and will get a DLC rep. If not, then the Smash 7 Speculation shall begin...

 

[Zeox]

Important details from loz18 that many will miss because they don't read:

View attachment 157795

we already talk about this last page, I don't trust loz18 that much, and 3 months without anything is too much.

 

[Gumzilla]

We must be on the same page, because 9 of those guys are some of my most wanted.

Which ones?

 

[Iridium]

That sonic for a sonic echo fighter please

What about the classic Sonic featured in Sonic Generations? I mean, he's just Sonic, so he could work as an Echo Fighter, even if his frame is different.

 

[Pakky]

Important details from loz18 that many will miss because they don't read:

View attachment 157795

How about them Pokemans tho?

Is he 100% on those? Cuz they seem SUPER random, Pokken is not a factor in any or this.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Maybe but think about it like this... Why wasn't Inkling in Smash 4? It was by far the breakout series for the Wii U and demand was really high for DLC. They were still skipped over, however. I feel like Sakurai has done this a lot in Smash history. In Brawl, technically all the newcomers except Toon Link, Olimar, and Lucario came from the post 64 Smash poll. Characters like Wario, Dedede, Diddy, etc were very glaring omissions in Melee despite how well they did in the post 64 Smash poll. Like I pointed out earlier all the newcomers in Ultimate so far aside from Inkling have long, fandom histories, even if it wasn't apparent in the Smash Community.

For someone like Spring Man, Ultimate is hardly a make or break situation. The game was a success and it'll probably stay as the main breakout franchise for the Switch era. The "Spring Man for Smash" fandom is roughly a year old... It won't suddenly die if he misses out. I could say the same thing about Rex and Pyra. Xenoblade 2 has already outsold the original and some argue that it's even a better game. That's another character fanbase that's not going to evaporate. Both characters will likely be in demand until they are added. In conclusion, Sakurai going hardcore on the back catalogue of fan demands is probably a good thing and ultimately pushes newer characters closer to the top for future games.

I imagine there's three possible reasons that prevented Inklings from being the promotional DLC instead of Corrin in Smash 4:

1. Splatoon was an instant huge hit, so by the time the decision was to be made on who to pick, it might have been deemed that Splatoon didn't need the extra promotion, while a game like Fates needed it more.

2. What Sakurai envisioned moveset-wise for the Inklings may have been too ambitious for Smash 4 DLC, the whole ink mechanic may not have been feasible to implement via DLC.

3. The decision to make Ultimate came some time in 2015, possibly before the promotional DLC was even decided, and thus Inklings may have simply just been held off as they were going to be unquestionably the biggest non-third party inclusion for the next Smash game.

Not to mention that when Smash Ultimate's project plan was being done, ORAS was the most recent Pokémon game.

Also Pokken released in the Japanese arcades just six months before the project plan, and was set for release internationally on Wii U just a few months after the project plan, where Gardevoir was one of its playable characters on the base roster, so there's another possible point towards Gardevoir potentially being chosen.

I have a question. Wasn't Krystal planned to be playable in Brawl? I hear that she got scrapped, and Wolf was put in instead because he was easy to make work in limited time. Can anyone confirm if that is true?

Krystal was never planned, she was just in consideration and Sakurai decided on Wolf because a Star Fox newcomer wasn't high priority to him while Wolf had the ease of development advantage.

 

[Pyra]

What about the classic Sonic featured in Sonic Generations? I mean, he's just Sonic, so he could work as an Echo Fighter, even if his frame is different.

Not sure about that. I think having a very minimal frame difference is one of the last threads holding echos as a category together (along with the assumed requirement that they have to be from the same franchise).

Then again, everyone thought something with echos was definitely the case, and then Chrom happened.
And then there's the "well 3rd party franchises can't get more than one character, they've never done that" and then it happened

So who even knows anymore lol

 

[Kuon]

Imagine- we get a Smash dump in October and very early December, and Isabelle is confirmed as an AT in the October one

The chaos of the people holding closely to either leaker will be kinda funny

Or Sakurai confirms the rest of the new assist trophies during blog updates, and Isabelle is in one of the updates ;( I will probably cry. Of course, I'll definitely cry of happiness if she gets confirmed playable.

 

[Pyra]

Or Sakurai confirms the rest of the new assist trophies during blog updates, and Isabelle is in one of the updates ;( I will probably cry. Of course, I'll definitely cry of happiness if she gets confirmed playable.

I hope for her fans' sake that she's playable.
If I ever say something against it, it's usually just a hypothetical against Verg or something. But honestly, I feel like she's likely even without the "leaker boost".

 

[Autobot N]

Which ones?

Waluigi, Tetra, Toon Zelda, Shantae, Paper Mario, Captain Toad, Spring Man, Geno, and Bandana Dee. Those 9, Shadow, Elma, and Shovel Knight are all of the newcomers that I wanted in Ultimate.

 

[Iridium]

Not sure about that. I think having a very minimal frame difference is one of the last threads holding echos as a category together (along with the assumed requirement that they have to be from the same franchise).

Then again, everyone thought something with echos was definitely the case, and then Chrom happened.
And then there's the "well 3rd party franchises can't get more than one character, they've never done that" and then it happened

So who even knows anymore lol

Wait, so how does Chrom's model compare to Roy? Is there any drastic difference, aside from appearance?