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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Pakky

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I could see Gardevoir and Gothitelle happening, but I hope its false because they have really unappealing designs and we already have Greninja for that.
Greninja is the best-designed water starter in the game's history. Why because it's not a fat wall destined to job to the fire starter that it's supposed to counterbalance Subjective? Yes, mostly.
 
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TheGoobster

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Let's not get ahead of ourselves now, skippy. He's popular, he may even be likely, but he's no guarantee. Just ask For's Wolf supporters, me being one, and you'll see that no one is a shoo-in.
I know, It's just that I've been wanting him since brawl and this is really getting my hopes up. All the evidence points to him being there. Sakurai wants him in, the mii costume, the brawl pols and etc..
 

NintenZ

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Literally there is one Fire Emblem character I will gladly accept into the roster.

She may be a sword-wielder, but she’s long overdue.
A2BC9483-3C7C-49E4-8F08-05B806573A5E.jpeg
 

SpiralGalaxies

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Gardevoir is one pokemon I would geninuely like playing as in smash so id be pleased w/ that choice. Gothitelle never really made an impression on me when Gen 5 released??I got white so Reuniclus was my psychic type but I can see the similarities that would denote an Echo I suppose. I have little faith in Gardevoir getting in though sadly.
 

Jedisupersonic

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Skull Kid coming would hopefully mean even more Majora's Mask remixes, a medley of the ocarina songs starting and ending with the Song of Healing for instance.
 

Starbound

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With the furniture theories, I really feel like we're fully submersed in confirmation bias because we're perpetually hungry for more characters.

I think if we take any hints from Sakurai, it's the Rathafos pic.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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With the furniture theories, I really feel like we're fully submersed in confirmation bias because we're perpetually hungry for more characters.

I think if we take any hints from Sakurai, it's the Rathafos pic.
Camelot RPG's in general have used that angle. I wouldn't put much stock into it. I would load up on Stocks while playing the game, though. :p
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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Just seems weird that they would go back and add Pokémon from previous generations, but presumably not add one from the newest generation. I could possibly understand it if Gardevoir was a highly requested character for Smash... but she's not.

The leak also has some contradictions, and I don't think guessing 1 unorthodox character and 2 highly anticipated characters correctly is enough to believe it.
 

The Animator

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Greninja is the best-designed water starter in the game's history. Why because it's not a fat wall destined to job to the fire starter that it's supposed to counterbalance Subjective? Yes, mostly.
They have a habit of making them cluttered looking but Greninja offends me the most because he looks like a reject robot from a Megaman game strangling himself with his tongue.
 

Nazyrus

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With the furniture theories, I really feel like we're fully submersed in confirmation bias because we're perpetually hungry for more characters.

I think if we take any hints from Sakurai, it's the Rathafos pic.
I mean you just said it yourself. It's thanks to Sakurai and his hints that we are hungry for more, lol. Like honestly, i would be ok with what we got as far as newcomers go, but sakurai just keeps making us hope for more, cause he knows we still could get more wishes come true. That Rathalos pic tho… most direct hint he has ever given us, imo.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Camelot RPG's in general have used that angle. I wouldn't put much stock into it. I would load up on Stocks while playing the game, though. :p
Well, to be fair, Camelot is the only company famous for pulling that sort of camera angle despite it being incredibly difficult to do, especially with 2D sprites, and they only have 1 Nintendo owned RPG. Like I said, it could be nothing. No reference whatsoever. But if it's referencing ANYTHING it's Golden Sun, hands down.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Well, to be fair, Camelot is the only company famous for pulling that sort of camera angle despite it being incredibly difficult to do, especially with 2D sprites, and they only have 1 Nintendo owned RPG. Like I said, it could be nothing. No reference whatsoever. But if it's referencing ANYTHING it's Golden Sun, hands down.
Don't forget they originally made Shining Force too. And SEGA owns Shining Force now. It's the same camera angle they've used too.

The only thing that points towards Golden Sun is having two characters next to each other. It isn't just the angle, but the amount of characters too. But it could be a joke referencing it, but that's literally it. A fun reference. Remember all the JoJo references during the Miiverse stuff?
 

Gumzilla

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So it seems we're getting more villains this time around so what if we got Giygas, more specifically Giegue.

I can imagine he'd use an edited version of Mewtwo's model. Maybe even be an Echo of him! But I think he'd be better as his own thing. For example: Less emphasis on physical attacks (even compared to characters like Mewtwo) and more emphasis on PSI. I can see him tucking his arms and legs in as he floats menacingly. His final smash would obviously involve transforming into Giygas!
 

Omega Tyrant

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Just seems weird that they would go back and add Pokémon from previous generations, but presumably not add one from the newest generation. I could possibly understand it if Gardevoir was a highly requested character for Smash... but she's not.

The leak also has some contradictions, and I don't think guessing 1 unorthodox character and 2 highly anticipated characters correctly is enough to believe it.
The thing with Pokemon is that there's so many good popular options that support is very scattered and not really unified behind a single pokemon, however all Pokemon votes in the Ballot combined there was probably very strong support for a new pokemon (similar to how support for a Final Fantasy newcomer was very strong pre-Cloud but it wasn't unified behind any character), and one common trend with fan complaints about the playable pokemon roster in Smash is the overrepresentation of gen 1 pokemon while half the gens were missing a playable pokemon. As such, going back and adding playable pokemon from the missing gens would be addressing a significant fan request.
 
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Jedisupersonic

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Well, to be fair, Camelot is the only company famous for pulling that sort of camera angle despite it being incredibly difficult to do, especially with 2D sprites, and they only have 1 Nintendo owned RPG. Like I said, it could be nothing. No reference whatsoever. But if it's referencing ANYTHING it's Golden Sun, hands down.
Acouple discords I'm in said it's reaching and being incredibly hopeful for a dead franchise, and I just frown.

Golden Sun getting something after these long years might prompt a revival ala Kid Icarus Uprising, so I hope it happens, (also to echo another statement yeah Shining Force uses this angle too).
 

Dee Dude

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I think we’re good with the villian roster unless we start pulling for Gigyas or Pokey/Porky, Andross, Black Shadow, and Kamek so all original 10 franchises get an antagonist.

...and I guess Giovanni if Mewtwo doesn't count? There's also Waluigi.

I’d love for Eggman to appear, not just as a fighter but in any capacity. Boss, assist, harzard etc.
 
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Idon

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It's worth mentioning that while Camelot is indeed popular for that JRPG style angle of combat, many other games have done it. It's not exactly uncommon.
FF7 combat.jpg

Dragon Quest Combat.png

dragoon combat.jpg

DDS Combat.png


Of course, that's assuming that even is a hint to begin with.
While I'm hopeful it turns out to be a hint for something grander, I'd temper my expectations.
 
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Jedisupersonic

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It's worth mentioning that while Camelot is indeed popular for that JRPG style angle of combat, other games have done it.
View attachment 157701
View attachment 157702
View attachment 157703
View attachment 157704

Of course, that's assuming that even is a hint to begin with.
While I'm hopeful it turns out to be a hint for something grander, I'd temper my expectations.
Man Legend of Dragoon getting something would be yet another spite towards Playstation All-Stars because they kinda just had Dart on the lineup for DLC that never happened.

Now I know Dart won't get in Smash but... Man that'd be yet another kick in the teeth for that game lmao
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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I'm thinking they won't do Echo Fighters if the characters are from different series. I doubt they would have two characters from different series share a character slot together.
As such, going back and adding playable pokemon from the missing gens would be addressing a significant fan request.
But what's the point of adding adding Pokémon from the missing gens if they're not going to add a Pokémon from the newest gen? Kind of defeats the purpose.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Enchess

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It's worth mentioning that while Camelot is indeed popular for that JRPG style angle of combat, many other games have done it. It's not exactly uncommon.
View attachment 157701
View attachment 157702
View attachment 157703
View attachment 157704

Of course, that's assuming that even is a hint to begin with.
While I'm hopeful it turns out to be a hint for something grander, I'd temper my expectations.
Those arent really the same angle though. Golden Sun's is more extreme and squished (probably to fit on the small GBA screen). Notice all the space in between characters in those. That's not what you have in either the screenshot or Golden Sun
 

Omega Tyrant

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But what's the point of adding adding Pokémon from the missing gens if they're not going to add a Pokémon from the newest gen? Kind of defeats the purpose.
A gen 3 or 5 pokemon will have established popularity to go off of at the time the project plan was devised, however a gen 7 pokemon would have no popularity to go off of and Sakurai would have to be choosing one entirely to his and TPC's whims. So a gen 7 pokemon is a much riskier pick when trying to please the fans (like if they go with Incineroar as heavily speculated the reaction will be a lot more mixed than if they have went with other potential options), while waiting until DLC instead for a gen 7 mon also means one could be picked off of actual popularity instead of gambling on another Greninja situation and hoping to get lucky for a second time.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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It's worth mentioning that while Camelot is indeed popular for that JRPG style angle of combat, many other games have done it. It's not exactly uncommon.
View attachment 157701
View attachment 157702
View attachment 157703
View attachment 157704

Of course, that's assuming that even is a hint to begin with.
While I'm hopeful it turns out to be a hint for something grander, I'd temper my expectations.
Well, those aren't necessarily the same camera angle. Close but not exact. Golden Sun has always used a more direct camera angle or even a tilted up angle. This is to provide scale to the battle. For instance the Dragon Quest picture above has a behemoth of an enemy but you can only see so much of it because of how the angle looks down on the characters. Golden Sun's looks straight ahead and sometimes even up, to make the scale seem grander than it really is. The Smash post is outlined in that same way. You're not looking down ON the characters, you're looking AT them. This was an attempt to make the player feel less like a God and more of a bistander in Golden Sun.

I'm gonna say it again, it could be referencing nothing, very easily. But if it's referencing anything then it's the Camelot camera angle. An angle that was used in Shining Force and Golden Sun. Nintendo owns Golden Sun so it's more likely to reference Golden Sun than Shining Force. If it's referencing anything, at all, it's Golden Sun. If not, well, you know, it's speculation, man.

Edit: just realized Legend of Dragoon is in there and, yeah, that is a good example of a game that does use the angle. I ****ing love Legend of Dragoon...

Edit 2: This is a dumb, over analytical post of a camera angle by a Cinematographer and should not be used as evidence to refute Idon's good point. It was just an analysis really by someone in film school. Oops.
 
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ZephyrZ

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The Gothitelle leak teally annoys me in a way that most leaks haven't, and I think I realize why. It's because of the ammoumt if people acting like its definitly real. Verg kept having evidence pile up, so I was willing to humor it until I was eventually convinced myself.

There's also a big difference between "this might be real" and "I totally believe this leak". One lucky guess shouldn't be enough to prove something, people. Especially since with this many fake leaks being thrown around there's bound to be one or two lucky flukes. Remember to remain skeptical.
 

Curious Villager

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I think the only reason why pokemon from previous gens don't tend to get much vocal support is that everyone is more or less accustomed to the fact that Sakurai always tends to favor the latest gen for his pokemon inclusions (Either that, or gen 1...) However, I can see a lot of different Pokemon where probably requested during the ballot, and probably a lot of them also complained about the lack of any playable pokemon from the gen 3 and 5 games. So I can see Sakurai looking back and see if there are any Pokemon he can feasibly include that can cover both those gens at once with one unique and one echo. And maybe covering Gen 7 (and 8?) at a later point via DLC.

Just my two cent's on that matter. Assuming that leak is true.
 
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Nethermoosen

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That's not necessarily credibility...
That could just be a thought out fake leak...
Buddy if your gonna be making Smash videos try to use objective thought processes free of self desired bias. Please weigh the pros and cons of each leak fairly so your not misleading or confusing the fan base. I think this approach allows for the fan base to make their own conclusions based on all the evidence presented. Your channel’s one bad leak away from being smash bros leak click bait.
I’ve seen the video and he clearly explained his reasoning in a way that actually provides it’s own entertainment. Use should use the objective thought process free of self desired bias towards leak videos. Please weigh the pros and cons of each comment you make fairly so you don’t lead us into believing you’re just an angry person who chose not to believe a leak based on your own opinion. You should take his fans into consideration and let them make their own conclusions. You’re one bad comment away from people ignoring your smug attitude.
 
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Shroob

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As a heads up, it's been more or less confirmed that the 2nd and 3rd part of the Neogaf leak was done by a 2nd person using the name Whissl, while the first leak still 'technically' is viable today.

The original leak, before anyone else ****ed with it, is as follows:

"Simon
King K.Rool
Isaac
X
X
X
X



Echoes:

Chrom(Roy echo)
Soren(Based on Robin)
Ken
X
X"


X's represent places where the leaker gave 0 information.

However, we feel it's very safe to assume now that the person who added stuff like Galacta Knight and Prince Sable was not the original poster, but another going under the same name due to Neogaf deleting the first account, thus making the name available again.



This was posted before the August Direct in July, and said we would 'see some things soon', and we received Simon, K.Rool, and the Chrom Echo.
 
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Iridium

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A bit late showing this, but it seems like Wario's d-air has a different animation, not being a simple corkscrew motion with his head anymore. Nothing major, but an interesting change.
 
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Enchess

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A bit late showing this, but it seems like Wario's d-air has a different animation, not being a simple corkscrew motion anymore. Nothing major, but an interesting change.
If I've learned anything from Smashboards, every veteran animation change could be a hint at an echo. Um... Jill (Drill Dozer) I guess?
 

PSIGuy

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Honestly Soren as an Echo when Celica is right there is the oddest part to me. She has more popularity AND recency and fits the role of "Robin but slightly tweaked" better. If Soren gets in it's a definite confirmation that the ballot rules all, and nuts to anything that might go against it (which is also probably a point against Malos or Octoling getting in as Echoes). Celica couldn't have gotten many votes back when she was only in Gaiden.
 

Nethermoosen

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It's worth mentioning that while Camelot is indeed popular for that JRPG style angle of combat, many other games have done it. It's not exactly uncommon.
View attachment 157701
View attachment 157702
View attachment 157703
View attachment 157704

Of course, that's assuming that even is a hint to begin with.
While I'm hopeful it turns out to be a hint for something grander, I'd temper my expectations.
I would have ignored it entirely if not for the fact it actually decided against using Cloud for the pic. Then, yeah, it’s clear what’s going on. Why not use the one character for a random RPG reference?

It has my curiosity.

Edit: Even Mario characters would have made sense there, but it’s like they specifically decided against the obvious choices.
 
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Iridium

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Remember me noticing the crazy amount of range on Richter's u-smash? Well, this image sums it up well, with his whip ending right at Lucas. His u-smash seems to almost occupy two character pllacements. The hitbox could be very thin, though.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Whoever the supposed Square rep is, I don't think it's going to be a FF character, which FF one the music screen being FF7

I think that really only leaves Geno, Sora, and to a lesser extent Crono.

Assuming the leak HAS any merit...
 
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