Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The problem here is that putting Junior in a clown kart was a brilliant idea. Echo fighter Gothitelle isn't.

And considering that Gothitelle was a pokemon made to resemble Gardevoir, and that people are throwing crazy echo ideas around left and right, I really don't think that idea is that clever either. The reason most of us wouldn't think of it is that most of us are barely even able to remember Gothitelle exists.

Clever, eh, not really.

But it's definitely not expected for a lot of people to do. But it does work. Also, you're making it sound like it's impossible for it to be fairly clever in some way. It's a way to easily show off a Gen 5 Pokemon. If that's his goal, it's one of the feasible options. Zoroark, while one of the more popular Pokemon, wouldn't work as an Echo because it's not even close to Lucario's full design. Gothitelle is actually very very similar, and would only need some slight animation changes in comparison. I don't believe the leak either, but this is the type of thing that is to subjective too write off the idea. I don't think Gothitelle could decently use the same animations, even tweaked, all that well.

And we only have one hard instance of where picking the Generation mattered(and that's Greninja, and he's intentionally a Gen VI rep). So while not entirely impossible, I wouldn't put stock into it. I think Lucario was mainly chosen for the Aura mechanic and was already easily getting popular by that point? I forget if it was released before the game started development or not. It did take a year to make the mechanic work.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It doesn't really seem that hard to me for someome to go to Serebii's pokedex looking for an echo for their fake Gardevoir leak, select psychic, then spot Gothitelle and then decide she'll do.

 

[drag0nscythe]

This is what we want to see people. Vote Yes for Goemon

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It doesn't really seem that hard to me for someome to go to Serebii's pokedex looking for an echo for their fake Gardevoir leak, select psychic, then spot Gothitelle and then decide she'll do.

It also helps a decent chunk of Gen V Pokemon were remakes of previous Pokemon. I mean, besides the obvious bird and rodent.

This is definitely possible to think of. It does sound a bit more clever than a normal leak, sure, but a lot of people are extremely creative, leakers or otherwise.

 

[Starbound]

One thought on the GAF leak:

This seems to be the work of two different users, which is why I think it's so weird. The account sourced with the first part of the info has been deleted. Not banned. Deleted. And GAF members can't delete accounts, only their administration can. For reference, the first account leaked the following on July 3rd:

- K. Rool
- Isaac
- Simon Belmont
- 4 more unique newcomers they didn't know about
- Chrom (as Roy's echo)
- Soren (as Robin's echo)
- Ken (as Ryu's echo)
- 2 more echoes they didn't know about (we now know as Richter and Dark Samus
- The Legend of Zelda Series won't receive any newcomers
- The Pokemon Series won't receive any newcomers
- Something about an addition to Cloud was mentioned, though I don't know for now if it's gonna be another Final Fantasy character or some other Square Enix character

That's it. No Galacta Knight. No Prince Sable. Just a newcomer list of 12 with 6 (now 4) holes to fill.

Then we get the second part, leaked by a totally different account. Remember that GAF accounts require manual administrative approval before getting the ability to post. However, as the account was deleted, the account's name is up for grabs again. My belief is that someone wanted to get their 15 seconds of fame and took a chance by taking ownership of the leak.

The following is all in addition to the above:

- Monster Hunter (is still in development which is the reason why he wasn't confirmed today)
- Terra from the Final Fantasy Series
- Another Bandai Namco character
- Prince Sable from "For the Frog the Bell Tolls"
- Shadow the Hedgehog based on Sonic (still on his way)
- Felix based on Isaac(will be revealed together with Isaac like Simon was with Richter)
- Isabelle based on Villager (still on her way)
- Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight (still on his way)

Somehow, with the new account, the roster grew from 12 to 16. Yet characters still being in development 4 months out is totally crazy given that the game has likely now gone into debugging and preparing for manufacturing; actual development is done. What I am suggesting is that this is a totally separate leak from the first part, as the old account holder has no way to protect his info.

And we all heard the new third part today, which is just basically Skull Kid (and whatever was up with those hints). The total shift in tone and strategy in leaking absolutely suggests we're dealing with another person. Which makes sense, because it's just 'another Skull Kid' leak after the chair fiasco and Loz18. This also disregards one of the elements in the first part, a classic misstep. HOWEVER, there is a key thing we need to acknowledge:

This third part IS from the same account as the second part. So due to the total shift in tone, I am proposing that this is a different 'leak' on top of another leak, and someone is using the correct info in the first part to get their 'fame'.

That is all, your honor.

 

[lordvaati]

Why is everyone acting like Gothitelle shot Batman's parents or something?
It would not be that bad a character choice, geez.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Why is everyone acting like Gothitelle shot Batman's parents or something?
It would not be that bad a character choice, geez.

TBH its pretty ****. With all the pokemon they have, they can do so much better.

FFS there were already so many videos of people going "who's dat" to GRENINJA.

 

[Iridium]

Why is everyone acting like Gothitelle shot Batman's parents or something?
It would not be that bad a character choice, geez.

Couldn't be worse than Garbodor or Muk.

 

[Opossum]

Couldn't be worse than Garbodor or Muk.

I think I'd legitimately prefer Muk or Garbodor over Gothitelle, honestly.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I brought this up before and would like to do so again since it's the hot topic, have people considered the possibility with the CEO datamine leak that the guy may have some legitimate information from other means, but just made up the whole story of datamining a demo at CEO to throw people off his trail and protect himself or his source? I wonder have there been a known instance of a legitimate leaker throwing in bull**** of how they got the information to protect someone?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

One thought on the GAF leak:

This seems to be the work of two different users, which is why I think it's so weird. The account sourced with the first part of the info has been deleted. Not banned. Deleted. And GAF members can't delete accounts, only their administration can. For reference, the first account leaked the following on July 3rd:



That's it. No Galacta Knight. No Prince Sable. Just a newcomer list of 12 with 6 (now 4) holes to fill.

Then we get the second part, leaked by a totally different account. Remember that GAF accounts require manual administrative approval before getting the ability to post. However, as the account was deleted, the account's name is up for grabs again. My belief is that someone wanted to get their 15 seconds of fame and took a chance by taking ownership of the leak.

The following is all in addition to the above:


Somehow, with the new account, the roster grew from 12 to 16. Yet characters still being in development 4 months out is totally crazy given that the game has likely now gone into debugging and preparing for manufacturing; actual development is done. What I am suggesting is that this is a totally separate leak from the first part, as the old account holder has no way to protect his info.

And we all heard the new third part today, which is just basically Skull Kid (and whatever was up with those hints). The total shift in tone and strategy in leaking absolutely suggests we're dealing with another person. Which makes sense, because it's just 'another Skull Kid' leak after the chair fiasco and Loz18. This also disregards one of the elements in the first part, a classic misstep. HOWEVER, there is a key thing we need to acknowledge:

This third part IS from the same account as the second part. So due to the total shift in tone, I am proposing that this is a different 'leak' on top of another leak, and someone is using the correct info in the first part to get their 'fame'.

That is all, your honor.

I only like the first part better because it gives the suggestion that Square is getting a rep and leaves the slight chance it could be Geno.

However, I still find Soren to be a crazy choice

Edit: And the first leak doesn't have enough echo fighters for Richter

Didn't the first part name 3 echo fighters and say there was 5 total. And the ones it named WEREN'T Dark Samus and Chrom

 

[Iridium]

I think I'd legitimately prefer Muk or Garbodor over Gothitelle, honestly.

Cofagrigus too? Just testing you . . .

 

[lordvaati]

My opinion is people who play the "literally who" card to the most popular Pokemon in Japan do not get free reign to judge viable Pokemon for the game.

Hell some of the best choices in Pokken were left field picks like Croagunk and Empoleon.

 

[Starbound]

I only like the first part better because it gives the suggestion that Square is getting a rep and leaves the slight chance it could be Geno.

However, I still find Soren to be a crazy choice

Edit: And the first leak doesn't have enough echo fighters for Richter

The first leak does have enough space. They had two empty spots: Richter and Dark Samus, as they predicted Chrom.

 

[Shroob]

I only like the first part better because it gives the suggestion that Square is getting a rep and leaves the slight chance it could be Geno.

However, I still find Soren to be a crazy choice

Edit: And the first leak doesn't have enough echo fighters for Richter

Didn't the first part name 3 echo fighters and say there was 5 total. And the ones it named WEREN'T Dark Samus and Chrom

To be fair, the original leak said there were two "X" echoes, with "X" being unknowns, and that Chrom would be a Roy echo.

Those "X"s could be Dark Samus and Richter.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

To be fair, the original leak said there were two "X" echoes, with "X" being unknowns, and that Chrom would be a Roy echo.

Those "X"s could be Dark Samus and Richter.

Oh that's right. I remember now.

I would be disappointed if we got Soren as a Robin echo and not Dixie as a Diddy echo.

 

[Opossum]

Real talk, though, Gothitelle always reminded me of the Gamyga from the Subspace Emissary and its in-game cry was a scare chord out of a slasher flick.

I love Unova but man, I'm not a fan of the Gothita/Gothorita/Gothitelle line. Chandelure, Unfezant, Sigilyph, Beheeyem, Sawsbuck? Samurott and Emboar? Reuniclus? Love those guys. Gothitelle? Yikes.

Cofagrigus too? Just testing you . . .

Yamask is tragic but adorable. Cofagrigus is creepy but cool.

 

[CroonerMike]

This is what we want to see people. Vote Yes for Goemon

Honestly, this is such a guilty pleasure for me.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't really see Gothitelle happening. Gardevoir maybe but I dunno if Gothitelle even really fits Gardevoir's stature well enough top be an echo.

 

[NextChannelGames]

One thought on the GAF leak:

This seems to be the work of two different users, which is why I think it's so weird. The account sourced with the first part of the info has been deleted. Not banned. Deleted. And GAF members can't delete accounts, only their administration can. For reference, the first account leaked the following on July 3rd:



That's it. No Galacta Knight. No Prince Sable. Just a newcomer list of 12 with 6 (now 4) holes to fill.

Then we get the second part, leaked by a totally different account. Remember that GAF accounts require manual administrative approval before getting the ability to post. However, as the account was deleted, the account's name is up for grabs again. My belief is that someone wanted to get their 15 seconds of fame and took a chance by taking ownership of the leak.

The following is all in addition to the above:


Somehow, with the new account, the roster grew from 12 to 16. Yet characters still being in development 4 months out is totally crazy given that the game has likely now gone into debugging and preparing for manufacturing; actual development is done. What I am suggesting is that this is a totally separate leak from the first part, as the old account holder has no way to protect his info.

And we all heard the new third part today, which is just basically Skull Kid (and whatever was up with those hints). The total shift in tone and strategy in leaking absolutely suggests we're dealing with another person. Which makes sense, because it's just 'another Skull Kid' leak after the chair fiasco and Loz18. This also disregards one of the elements in the first part, a classic misstep. HOWEVER, there is a key thing we need to acknowledge:

This third part IS from the same account as the second part. So due to the total shift in tone, I am proposing that this is a different 'leak' on top of another leak, and someone is using the correct info in the first part to get their 'fame'.

That is all, your honor.

Welp, you got me to think Phoenix Wright should be playable. Objection! xD

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Anyone who thinks this isn't clever is kidding themselves. This is a stars aligning perfectly-type strategy.

Gardevoir, an insanely popular Pokemon that's been requested for over a decade, is being included just in time for an echo fighter craze, that allows for Gothitelle, another popular Gen 5 Pokemon that's a perfect fit to echo Gardevoir (having been commonly contrasted by fans and by the anime) to become a playable fighter, thus killing two birds with one stone, and officially giving playable status to all 7 generations of Pokemon.

That is clever. So yeah. I believe this leak. I don't buy for a second that some 4chan user made that up. All these leaks the past couple of months have never made claims about something that works as well as this does.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Oh that's right. I remember now.

I would be disappointed if we got Soren as a Robin echo and not Dixie as a Diddy echo.

Soren would be a super bizarre choice, sure he has some fans (not to mention the IkexSoren shippers), but he only used daggers if anyone ever classed him up to use them, but any smart person gave him staves.

Unless they decide to like replace Robin's Levin Sword with like the Radiant Dawn Wind Edge/Tempest Sword... Then say Ike taught him how to use swords like how they explained why Ness & Lucas had offensive PSI.

 

[Iridium]

Real talk, though, Gothitelle always reminded me of the Gamyga from the Subspace Emissary and its in-game cry was a scare chord out of a slasher flick.

I love Unova but man, I'm not a fan of the Gothita/Gothorita/Gothitelle line. Chandelure, Unfezant, Sigilyph, Beheeyem, Sawsbuck? Samurott and Emboar? Reuniclus? Love those guys. Gothitelle? Yikes.


Yamask is tragic but adorable. Cofagrigus is creepy but cool.

The fact that it always looks like its crying hurts a lot more when you realize it grieves over its past life.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Huh, when reading the Gardevoir leak it seems the leaker is suggesting that Gothitelle is a Echo? It’s possible that the leaker got the Echo part wrong unless I’m not reading it right.

 

[cothero]

If Gardevoir and Gothitelle are going to be added alongside a 7 gen rep (most likely Incineroar), then we'll get Pokémon from all 7 generations, it's not that absurd. But how would their final smashes work, since Gardevoir mega evolves and Gothitelle doesn't? (Echo fighter shares the same final smashes from their original counterparts... Until now). Maybe Sakurai planned something original like Greninja's final smash for them?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't really see Gothitelle happening. Gardevoir maybe but I dunno if Gothitelle even really fits Gardevoir's stature well enough top be an echo.

I think it's possible. Both are essentially a head with arms and a dress. Gardevoir is taller but it's not like heights are accurate in Smash.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

If Gardevoir and Gothitelle are going to be added alongside a 7 gen rep (most likely Incineroar), then we'll get Pokémon from all 7 generations, it's not that absurd. The thing that bothers me is their final smashes, since Gardevoir mega evolves and Gothitelle doesn't (Echo fighter shares the same final smashes from their original counterparts... Until now). Maybe Sakurai planned something original like Greninja's final smash for them?

Dark Pit & Pit have different ones as do Roy & Chrom.

I don't think that's much of a rule, and depends entirely on if it makes sense for both characters to have the same final smash.

 

[Starbound]

Huh, when reading the Gardevoir leak it seems the leaker is suggesting that Gothitelle is a Echo? It’s possible that the leaker got the Echo part wrong unless I’m not reading it right.

Gothitelle as a unique newcomer on top of Gardevoir and, presumably, a Gen 7 Pokemon would be overkill imo.

We're already getting 3 more Pokemon newcomers from Smash 4. Adding another 3 on top would be too much imo. 2 and an echo I can sort of see though.

 

[Opossum]

If Gardevoir and Gothitelle are going to be added alongside a 7 gen rep (most likely Incineroar), then we'll get Pokémon from all 7 generations, it's not that absurd. The thing that bothers me is their final smashes, since Gardevoir mega evolves and Gothitelle doesn't (Echo fighter shares the same final smashes from their original counterparts... Until now). Maybe Sakurai planned something original like Greninja's final smash for them?

Chrom and Dark Pit have different Final Smashes. Dark Pit even had one last time.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't really see Gothitelle happening. Gardevoir maybe but I dunno if Gothitelle even really fits Gardevoir's stature well enough top be an echo.

There were people who said the same thing about the man in your profile picture when he was leaked. Gothitelle is a very popular Pokemon. And she fits Gardevoir's stature perfectly as evidence by the anime that realized this and paired them together in episode 784.

It makes perfect sense that a Pokemon inarguably inspired to some extent by the insanely popular Gardevoir, would be chosen to echo her in Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

 

[Chandeelure]

Sakurai gave us Gothitelle hints in Brawl.

It's happening.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If Gardevoir and Gothitelle are going to be added alongside a 7 gen rep (most likely Incineroar), then we'll get Pokémon from all 7 generations, it's not that absurd. The thing that bothers me is their final smashes, since Gardevoir mega evolves and Gothitelle doesn't (Echo fighter shares the same final smashes from their original counterparts... Until now). Maybe Sakurai planned something original like Greninja's final smash for them?

Dark Pit had a different Final Smash from the start. Final Smashes don't necessarily have to be the same. Though I have noticed that Echoes so far don't have entirely unique ones, being animation variations. Dark Pit's was of Light Arrow(and probably just reusing his old data to repeat it, or taking from Ancient Arrow). Chrom's Critical Hit still has similarities to the other ones. I don't remember if any Final Smashes for Echoes are fairly unique.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Gothitelle as a unique newcomer on top of Gardevoir and, presumably, a Gen 7 Pokemon would be overkill imo.

We're already getting 3 more Pokemon newcomers from Smash 4. Adding another 3 on top would be too much imo. 2 and an echo I can sort of see though.

Didn’t Brawl added like 4 new Pokémon Fighters?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Also if you google search Gothitelle, there are quite a number of pictures of her with Gardevoir

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Didn’t Brawl added like 4 new Pokémon Fighters?

Yes, yes it did.

But there also two cuts, but also maybe one more intended(if Plusle & Minun were a thing). It was meant to be 7(or 8) total. I don't think having 3 more Pokmon would be that odd myself.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Also if you google search Gothitelle, there are quite a number of pictures of her with Gardevoir

I wanted to bring that up, but I knew I'd just be told "That doesn't mean anything!"

 

[Kuon]

One thought on the GAF leak:

This seems to be the work of two different users, which is why I think it's so weird. The account sourced with the first part of the info has been deleted. Not banned. Deleted. And GAF members can't delete accounts, only their administration can. For reference, the first account leaked the following on July 3rd:



That's it. No Galacta Knight. No Prince Sable. Just a newcomer list of 12 with 6 (now 4) holes to fill.

Then we get the second part, leaked by a totally different account. Remember that GAF accounts require manual administrative approval before getting the ability to post. However, as the account was deleted, the account's name is up for grabs again. My belief is that someone wanted to get their 15 seconds of fame and took a chance by taking ownership of the leak.

The following is all in addition to the above:


Somehow, with the new account, the roster grew from 12 to 16. Yet characters still being in development 4 months out is totally crazy given that the game has likely now gone into debugging and preparing for manufacturing; actual development is done. What I am suggesting is that this is a totally separate leak from the first part, as the old account holder has no way to protect his info.

And we all heard the new third part today, which is just basically Skull Kid (and whatever was up with those hints). The total shift in tone and strategy in leaking absolutely suggests we're dealing with another person. Which makes sense, because it's just 'another Skull Kid' leak after the chair fiasco and Loz18. This also disregards one of the elements in the first part, a classic misstep. HOWEVER, there is a key thing we need to acknowledge:

This third part IS from the same account as the second part. So due to the total shift in tone, I am proposing that this is a different 'leak' on top of another leak, and someone is using the correct info in the first part to get their 'fame'.

That is all, your honor.

So, do you think either of these leakers are correct?

 

[Poopyhead]

Does this leak have any credibility at all? I read it when it happened and immediately dismissed it when it confidently said Simon wasn't in, but Richter was as a unique fighter, and NOT listed with the echo fighters. Yet now it's the new YouTube clickbait trend.

I would be ecstatic with Gothitelle but I just don't find it believable in the slightest.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

When you compare the body structures and such then it isn't too far off and it makes sense why Gothitelle would be an echo of her.

 

[Starbound]

So, do you think either of these leakers are correct?

I do think the first one was right, as it said K. Rool, Simon and Chrom were in the game, and some of his guesses would be revealed 'soon'. About a month later, we got all three.

The second leaker is garbage.