Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ErenJager]

yeah but you have to then take a leak with credibility and pretend its real and ask yourself if it could make sense.

the richter leak makes sense when i think about it if its real; the code he saw makes sense with how we know code in smash has happened in the past (not full builds just some characters), we have reason to believe richter might be the "base" character or was at some point, trying to rep all the pokemon gens sounds like something sakurai might do for ultimate especially if that was highly requested in the smash ballot comments of pokemon choices, saving a gen 7 for dlc makes sense as pokemon "sells" they might actively WANT to save a pokemon for dlc, gardevoir and dark samus can both debunk the leak if they are shown as an assist or pokeball and neither did, mario2 fits with how they "hid" dlc characters in smash 4, the echo characters being grouped "with" their counter parts on the character select data now makes sense with the way echos can be selected...


thats a LOT of credibility imo.

the neogaf leak did the dumb like "riddle" leak thing where it had hidden characters and made a game out of leaking (screams fake leaker) and when i think about the rest of its full list it DOESNT yield results like "gardevoir and an echo from gen 5 to rep all the gens cause THAT was requested on the ballot"...instead its got for whom the frog tolls characters that do NOT fit how this game seems to be deciding newcomers.

yes it guesses chrom as a roy echo but he's not even clearly a roy echo hes only "technically" a roy echo, it mentioned nothing of having ikes upB and has no story explaining WHY it might not know that (the richter leaks story perfectly explains why he didnt see simon, it was just demo character select screen code it doesnt have everything just some left over code).

if i look into the richter one it becomes more and more real if i look into neogaf it seems more fake.

That's not necessarily credibility...
That could just be a thought out fake leak...
Buddy if your gonna be making Smash videos try to use objective thought processes free of self desired bias. Please weigh the pros and cons of each leak fairly so your not misleading or confusing the fan base. I think this approach allows for the fan base to make their own conclusions based on all the evidence presented. Your channels one bad leak away from being smash bros leak click bait.

 

[Kuon]

Unnamed sources saying that other unnamed sources are not credible sources? Man my brain's confused.

You're confusing me. Loz18 said all his unnamed sources are saying she's not "in the game", meaning she's not playable at all. But Vergeben says she is playable in the game. I choose to believe Vergeben (and not just because I want Isabelle)

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Lizard bros

Always been fond of the fan narrative of Ridley and Rool being buddies.

In a subspace smash setting? I think it could work, they're both deceptively smart.

 

[Will]

Really? I think its crazy to say this. I understand not everyone has the same sense of imagination, but I dont understand how an individual can use the moveset argument.
Take the mechanics of Balloon Fight as a game and give that feeling to a character. Sakurai is an artist. If assigned, he would commission.
Additionally, Sakurai has given people less influential in his life tributes and characters, prior. Why on Earth wouldnt we get a tribute for him?
The only real option for it is Balloon Fighter, as its the only game he created that isnt represented.

Ness isnt a tribute for Iwata, Ness has been in the game from day one. That isnt a tribute.

So are you saying the only solution to completely tribute Iwata is to put Iwata himself in the game?

 

[Shroob]

richters more popular in japan by far and the moveset they both have is more based on richters game, so potentially he was made first.

not saying the demo was made before simon was decided and thus the trailer being made just that its likely richters code was at somepoint potentially in the game and simons wasnt and so whatever the demo is basing itself off of or what code was left over COULD have richter without simon.

agree to disagree i guess i just think its far more likely than people are giving it credit for.

we got wii fit trainer. in a leak before her reveal she would not seem likely. after her reveal suddenly repping wii fit makes sense cause it sold well. sakurai sometimes has some odd chocies. gothitelle doesnt seem likely. if we get gothitelle suddenly people will be saying it was to easily rep all the gens it makes sense. this sort of thing just has the typical smash logic written all over it imo

You didn't answer my point about the trailer at all.


Your entire argument boils down to "Well, maybe Simon was originally the echo because Richter!"


When that does not line up at all with what we've seen.


This trailer was most likely made a LONG time ago to be ready for the reveal, and it focused on SIMON primarily. Why would SIMON, the ECHO be the star of the trailer? THAT does not make sense, no matter how you look at it, I'm sorry.



You can believe this rumor, but to me, there are a LOT of red flags, Gothitelle not even being one of them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Absolutely. It already is. Yeah, there are a few things I'd change - I still don't know about the cel-shaded KO trails, and Link should totally still be a lefty...

But Squirtle, Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool? This is amazing! Give me Dovahkiin, and I'll never ask for anything again.

I'd like to get another so I can spam Dragonborn votes. After all, the ballot closed in 2015, so any characters who've gotten important in the past two years (like the ARMS characters, BotW Champions, LABObot, Xeno 2) aren't going to be represented. Plus, I know people weren't really thinking too much about voting anybody since they didn't realize the third party extent - Cloud was announced in November and the ballot closed in October (?)

It said any video game character. If you chose to limit yourself, that doesnt mean you should get a second chance.
The reality is that there have been no majorly influential characters created since 2015. At least not as far as we can tell yet.
ARMS getting in will happen if Nintendo wants to push it, and thats always been the most likely case. Nintendo will likely push it, do you remember how intensely they were promoting it? Not to mention it being the Nintendo fighting game.
BOTW- huge game. Sakurai will include from it that who he wants to include. And as of yet we still only have Sheik to have been introduced from one game only (and that was as Zelda).
Labo bot. I assume is the surprise.

Anyway, I guess the point is that fans dont need to have the ability to vote on new options. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make... that will forever be true.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Oh my thoughts on the demo code leak.

I think it has credibility because a few things about it seem to have fit from the Smash Direct.

1. Yes, he was the only one to mention Richter Balmont. Which would actually makes sense because he is very popular in Japan then Simon.

1. Why was Simon not in the demo?
It’s simple, demos aren’t the full game and are built long before showing to a event like E3. Any deta they don’t want to show will be deleted but it’s hard to delete code date so there’s always a chance something got overlooked. But it’s interesting that Richter wasn’t shown was a Echo because in the Smash Direct Sakurai talked about how Simon is an Echo To Richter.

2. He mentioned about how the Echo Fighters were underneath their counterparts Which In the direct it was shown we can stack characters.

3. The characters like Dark Samus and King K. Rool were pretty much what everyone talked about before the direct. Though chrom being a Roy Echo Fighter was a very interesting idea because I’ll tell you I’ve seen so many fans think Chrom would’ve been a Marth/Ike Echo Fighter Instead.

4. Now we’re only left with the Pokémon. I think Sakurai is going to represent all the generations of the series because it can easy to build Gardevoir from other fighters like Rosalina, Zelda and others and as well with Gothitelle which... I don’t think she’ll be an Echo Fighter but we’ll see.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

That would be wholesome, but honestly? I don't think we'll get him because of how hard it would be to propose a moveset for it. And then, I think Ness is a pretty nice tribute fighter for Iwata, only Balloon Fighter would surprass him.

Make him a balloon samurai or ninja

Wouldn't Ossan from Golf make more sense as an Iwata tribute?

Too op, so no

 

[Zinith]

But how many of those Marias are killed as part of the story overall?

All of them if you count one of the endings of Rondo of Blood...

 

[Arcanir]

You're confusing me. Loz18 said all his unnamed sources are saying she's not "in the game", meaning she's not playable at all. But Vergeben says she is playable in the game. I choose to believe Vergeben (and not just because I want Isabelle)

I don't think he's said that, you may be thinking of that fake PM that someone made up to throw Vergeban under a bus, but Loz18 already came forward and said someone was spreading lies using an edited image.

He did say he doesn't believe she'll be in the game in that post, but it mostly comes from the fact that he hasn't heard anything about her, which makes it clear that it's just his own thoughts rather then anything backing it.

 

[Iridium]

If we see HRC again (very likely), I want to see shenanigans like this:

 

[Shroob]

If Isabelle is actually in the game and an Echo like Verg says she is, it really makes me question why she's the only Echo to have gotten leaked.

Maybe she was the first Echo that they worked on?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Im just gonna post the characters I want before going to bed. Because I feel 22 again and am enjoying this Sm4sh moment and feeling.

Toad, Impa, Dixie, Banjo-Kazooie, Isabelle, Meowth, Isaac, Paper Mario, Frogger, Angry Birds, Lara Croft, Steve, Scorpion, Heihachi, Crash, Spyro, Bomberman, Eevee, Balloon Fighter, Rayman.

I will stop here. Let's call this my top 20. Though mostly im just stopping naming them now.


EDIT: I am ashamed that I forgot Chibi Robo. He is high on my list. LABO man is likely a strong possibility as well...
Bandana Dee... I also want. I'm sure there are more about whom I will feel guilt.

 

[TheGoobster]

If we see HRC again (very likely), I want to see shenanigans like this:

Who actually ever got the world record in HRC? Wasn't it a ganon?

 

[Starbound]

Gardevoir leak honestly doesn't make much sense from a few angles.

For me, if Sakurai is wanting to avoid leaks, and he accepts the unlikely possibility that someone may gain unsolicited access to the demo, he realizes he's not going to put everything in the demo files to avoid leaks.

Makes sense, yes? I've seen this come up a lot as justification for why Simon isn't there.

Good. Now question for you.

Why would he put more than the fighters in the demo in the demo? That's literally asking to be leaked and makes no sense.

"Hmm well just in case this gets leaked I won't put every character in it. I'll just put Richter, Gardevoir, K. Rool, Dark Samus and Gothitelle in it. But no Simon or Chrom. That'll surely stop anyone from leaking the contents of the demo."

If you don't want unrevealed characters to get leaked, don't put unrevealed characters in the data! That is such an amateur idea and I'm sure Sakurai is more than capable of realizing it. Especially if you're making a special build just for the demo.

 

[Iridium]

We need this character. This would be a great opportunity to celebrate video game history!

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Oh my thoughts on the demo code leak.

I think it has credibility because a few things about it seem to have fit from the Smash Direct.

1. Yes, he was the only one to mention Richter Balmont. Which would actually makes sense because he is very popular in Japan then Simon.

1. Why was Simon not in the demo?
It’s simple, demos aren’t the full game and are built long before showing to a event like E3. Any deta they don’t want to show will be deleted but it’s hard to delete code date so there’s always a chance something got overlooked. But it’s interesting that Richter wasn’t shown was a Echo because in the Smash Direct Sakurai talked about how Simon is an Echo To Richter.

2. He mentioned about how the Echo Fighters were underneath their counterparts Which In the direct it was shown we can stack characters.

3. The characters like Dark Samus and King K. Rool were pretty much what everyone talked about before the direct. Though chrom being a Roy Echo Fighter was a very interesting idea because I’ll tell you I’ve seen so many fans think Chrom would’ve been a Marth/Ike Echo Fighter Instead.

4. Now we’re only left with the Pokémon. I think Sakurai is going to represent all the generations of the series because it can easy to build Gardevoir from other fighters like Rosalina, Zelda and others and as well with Gothitelle which... I don’t think she’ll be an Echo Fighter but we’ll see.

Wait wait wait , real or not can we clear this up. The gardevoir leak and the Chrom is Roy echo leak are not the same correct? I feel like people are combining them. They are seperate leaks that both got one wild guess correct.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong? Don't want misinformation to spread that they are the same leak and 2 leaks become one more credible one.

 

[Shroob]

Wait wait wait , real or not can we clear this up. The gardevoir leak and the Chrom is Roy echo leak are not the same correct? I feel like people are combining them. They are seperate leaks that both got one wild guess correct.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong? Don't want misinformation to spread that they are the same leak and 2 leaks become one more credible one.

Yes, they are separate.

 

[Blargg888]

About the Battlefield thing, I was also thinking about just being able to say Battlefield Battlefield.

Honestly, playing on Battlefield Final Destination is going to be weird.

The idea of an FD with platforms just sounds unnatural to me for some reason.

 

[Iridium]

Who actually ever got the world record in HRC? Wasn't it a ganon?

Well, definitely not here. That team combo at the end is the furthest I've seen Sandbag get launched, and I remember this from a long time ago.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

One of the reasons I find this leak credible is the same reason I knew the leaked Smash 4 character select screen was real, because no Smash fan would be creative enough to think to put Bowser Jr in his clown car. They would have just given him a paintbrush.

Gardevoir and Gothille as an echo of her is too smart for some anonymous leaker to make up. It's such a perfect strategy that only one man could have conceived it. And that man is Masahiro Sakurai. Not some anonymous 4chan user.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If Isabelle is actually in the game and an Echo like Verg says she is, it really makes me question why she's the only Echo to have gotten leaked.

Maybe she was the first Echo that they worked on?

You'd think the echoes would have less priority to secrecy

Especially since leakers seemed to know about Simon and K Rool

 

[Iridium]

We need this character. This would be a great opportunity to celebrate video game history!

Hey everyone, tag @GoldenYuiitusin when he comes back so he can think of a moveset! I can feel the memes with this!

 

[Kuon]

I don't think he's said that, you may be thinking of that fake PM that someone made up to throw Vergeban under a bus, but Loz18 already came forward and said someone was spreading lies using an edited image.

He did say he doesn't believe she'll be in the game in that post, but it mostly comes from the fact that he hasn't heard anything about her, which makes it clear that it's just his own thoughts rather then anything backing it.

Oh yeah that makes more sense now. So the only thing he's said about Isabelle is just his own personal opinion? I wonder what makes him think she won't be in? I mean, all signs are pointing to her being playable, so why would anyone think otherwise?

 

[Mutsukki]

One of the reasons I find this leak credible is the same reason I knew the leaked Smash 4 character select screen was real, because no Smash fan would be creative enough to think to put Bowser Jr in his clown car. They would have just given him a paintbrush.

My dude, that was an actual picture of the whole selectable roster. This is a guy who's claiming he was able to get a demo from a supervised environment and then datamined a bunch of stuff. It's not even comparable.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Wait wait wait , real or not can we clear this up. The gardevoir leak and the Chrom is Roy echo leak are not the same correct? I feel like people are combining them. They are seperate leaks that both got one wild guess correct.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong? Don't want misinformation to spread that they are the same leak and 2 leaks become one more credible one.

I’m sorry the Chrom Echo is a separate leak. It seems we all are confusing the leaks together so everything I said minus Chrom is what I think can be true but only the two Pokémon are left on there...

 

[Kuon]

Hey everyone, tag @GoldenYuiitusin when he comes back so he can think of a moveset! I can feel the memes with this!

lol yes, (arguably) one of the worst videogames ever represented in (possibly) one of the best videogames ever. Do it, Sakurai

 

[TMNTSSB4]

We need this character. This would be a great opportunity to celebrate video game history!

One of the greatest games of all times must finally join Smash

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I’m sorry the Chrom Echo is a separate leak. It seems we all are confusing the leaks together so everything I said minus Chrom is what I think can be true but only the two Pokémon are left on there...

I was getting confused too lol.

I seriously hate that we have to wait probably a month for any of this to be cleared up...probably longer because we would need confirmation that Gardevoir is a Pokeball pokemon.

What even were the other characters in that leak?! Gardevoir and Gothitelle are the only unconfirmed right?

 

[Shroob]

I was getting confused too lol.

I seriously hate that we have to wait probably a month for any of this to be cleared up...probably longer because we would need confirmation that Gardevoir is a Pokeball pokemon.

What even were the other characters in that leak?! Gardevoir and Gothitelle are the only unconfirmed right?

"Mario2" which could literally be anything from a placeholder to some sort of Mario echo.

It almost assuredly isn't a placeholder file due to us seeing how they handle placeholder data in 4(Simply being Mario).

 

[ZephyrZ]

One of the reasons I find this leak credible is the same reason I knew the leaked Smash 4 character select screen was real, because no Smash fan would be creative enough to think to put Bowser Jr in his clown car. They would have just given him a paintbrush.

Gardevoir and Gothille as an echo of her is too smart for some anonymous leaker to make up. It's such a perfect strategy that only one man could have conceived it. And that man is Masahiro Sakurai. Not some anonymous 4chan user.

The problem here is that putting Junior in a clown kart was a brilliant idea. Echo fighter Gothitelle isn't.

And considering that Gothitelle was a pokemon made to resemble Gardevoir, and that people are throwing crazy echo ideas around left and right, I really don't think that idea is that clever either. The reason most of us wouldn't think of it is that most of us are barely even able to remember Gothitelle exists.

 

[NextChannelGames]

I was getting confused too lol.

I seriously hate that we have to wait probably a month for any of this to be cleared up...probably longer because we would need confirmation that Gardevoir is a Pokeball pokemon.

What even were the other characters in that leak?! Gardevoir and Gothitelle are the only unconfirmed right?

The two Pokémon and a Mario2 are the only ones left. Here’s the link https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Gee, I really hope you're wrong.
A Donkey Kong racing game where you are on animal buddies like that cancelled Gamecube one would be my dream announcement.
Plus have Banjo Kazooie as a suprise character, and that would be amazing.

I think the majority of DK fans would rather see the return of K Rool in the DKC series

 

[TheGoobster]

I honestly just want to see a new and credible leak. The two we have so far isn't doing it for me.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The problem here is that putting Junior in a clown kart was a brilliant idea. Echo fighter Gothitelle isn't.

Echo fighter Gothille is a brilliant idea. So there's no problem here. Part of that is because both characters represent the two gens that are missing.

I wouldn't expect a forum user to come up with this strategy in a million years.

 

[Kuon]

I was getting confused too lol.

I seriously hate that we have to wait probably a month for any of this to be cleared up...probably longer because we would need confirmation that Gardevoir is a Pokeball pokemon.

What even were the other characters in that leak?! Gardevoir and Gothitelle are the only unconfirmed right?

One of them was labeled 'Mario2', but that's likely just a placeholder title for a character that wasn't in the game yet, since Sakurai only puts bits and pieces in the game at a time. Other than that, I dunno

 

[RandomAce]

It looks like we’re playing the waiting game now.

I honestly want Elma to be the next reveal so I can see this thread go in a giant loophole and the salty reactions of “ELMA REPLACED REX!” arguements outside here.

I like the idea of something defying what most people expect and pushed hard for, only to fail .

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Echo fighter Gothille is a brilliant idea. So there's no problem here. Part of that is because both characters represent the two gens that are missing.

It's funny thinking we've gotten to the point of considering Gothitelle. In any sort of context, but it does seem like a Sakurai move if it turned out to be true.

 

[Kuon]

I honestly just want to see a new and credible leak. The two we have so far isn't doing it for me.

One that's both new and credible is gonna be hard to find, but I think Vergeben is the most credible, and maybe loz18 (maybe...) Whisslblank is another leaker, but not too many people are believing him.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It's funny thinking we've gotten to the point of considering Gothitelle. In any sort of context, but it does seem like a like Sakurai move if it turned out to be true.

That's what I'm saying. We wouldn't be considering Gothitelle under any other circumstance. The internet and video game fanbase is not clever enough to make this **** up.