Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Al-kīmiyā']

Isaac = Earth Powers

Grass Type Pokemon = No Earth Powers, but a variety of other skills.

Isaac =/= Grass Type Pokemon


Bruh.

https://smashboards.com/threads/nintendos-golden-boy-isaac-for-smash.446390/#post-21688406
Check out the moveset, bruh

 

[Swamp Sensei]

https://smashboards.com/threads/nintendos-golden-boy-isaac-for-smash.446390/#post-21688406
Check out the moveset, bruh

I've played Golden Sun.

If you think the few Vine powers Isaac has would mean a Grass Pokemon would be the same I have to question your judgement.

Heck, look at Ivysaur. He's almost all vines and he plays nothing like Isaac.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

YES. I've been dreaming that since the beginning of the Rosalina And Luma Smash 4 trailer. Hopefully he (or is it a she) will come to Mario Kart 8 deluxe along with Captain Falcon.

You'll likely have to wait until the next Mario Kart installment, since I seriously doubt that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe will be getting any DLC; that would just add greater insult to injury for the original Mario Kart 8.

 

[A Distant Demon]

https://smashboards.com/threads/nintendos-golden-boy-isaac-for-smash.446390/#post-21688406
Check out the moveset, bruh

Swamp knows his way around Golden Sun. He's a big fan. Hell, you might want to read the post you linked since he is mentioned summarizing the game.

Isaac and grass type pokemon probably wouldnt have a lot of overlap. Isaac might have one vine move, but he would primarily be focused on other earth moves probably either sword moves or just other psyenergy attacks. Compare that to a grass type pokemon like Ivysaur which would probably be entirely grass based, unless it's someone like Decidueye.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Compare that to a grass type pokemon like Ivysaur which would probably be entirely grass based, unless it's someone like Decidueye

Unless it's the most likely grass pokemon at this point...

Anyway, I agree Isaac wouldn't capture all of the possible grass type moves, but his inclusion would take away from the uniqueness factor of a grass type pokemon.

 

[UserKev]

I'm not sure that's true, but move set potential is something else that goes into consideration. I don't see Mimikyu happening. I think popularity is a deciding factor, but it's not the end all-be all.



I think your conclusion is naive, unfounded, insulting to Sakurai, and above all, a fallacy.

Your conclusion on Mimikyu is what your making Luminaro out to be. You don't see Mimikyu happening? The most promoted new Pokémon of generation 7? Your a Decidueye supporter.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Unless it's the most likely grass pokemon at this point...

Anyway, I agree Isaac wouldn't capture all of the possible grass type moves, but his inclusion would take away from the uniqueness factor of a grass type pokemon.

If Isaac having one vine move significantly takes away from the uniqueness of grass types, than Bowser having flamethrower took away from the uniqueness of Charizard having flamethrower. (hell, that one almost makes sense since they at least both use claw moves. . .)

 

[N3ON]

You could come up with a myriad of unique movesets based on Pokemon of the same type, or adepts of the same psynergy, let alone two different characters from two distinct series that really only overlap insofar as the most general breadth of their most commonly associated element.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Unless it's the most likely grass pokemon at this point...

Anyway, I agree Isaac wouldn't capture all of the possible grass type moves, but his inclusion would take away from the uniqueness factor of a grass type pokemon.

I like how you assume that Pokemon types matter when they only really did for Pokemon Traier in Brawl and that's about it.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If Isaac having one vine move significantly takes away from the uniqueness of grass types, than Bowser having flamethrower took away from the uniqueness of Charizard having flamethrower. (hell, that one almost makes sense since they at least both use claw moves. . .)

1. I'm not sure if by 'significantly' you mean a large amount, or just a non-negligible amount. I think it's not a large amount, but it is a non-negligible amount.
2. Isaac has more than one grass type move, but even if it were just one, like Bowser and his flamethrower, it would take a little bit away from the uniqueness of a grass type pokemon.

I like how you assume that Pokemon types matter when they only really did for Pokemon Traier in Brawl and that's about it.

I'm not sure what you're implying here. I'm only talking about how moves look, not any kind of type advantage.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm not sure what you're implying here. I'm only talking about how moves look, not any kind of type advantage.

Well, I don't see how a few plant-based moves from Isaac are going to ruin the appeal of a grass-type Pokemon.

Especially since the fire attribute is used by pretty much the majority of the Smash cast at this point, yet Charizard managed to not lose its appeal as a Fire Pokemon.

EDIT: And even then, if a Grass Pokemon is chosen for the next Smash, it'll be because they have something unique to bring to the table, not just "lol let's complete a triangle that has no meaning in this game"

 

[Deleted member]

Mega Man has a move that has him spawn leaves to protect him and to fire at people.

Villager has a move where he pulls a weed from the ground to smack someone with. And a move that spawns a tree to attack with.

If these didn't take from a Grass type, I don't see why Isaac would.

....not that either are particularly likely.

 

[Opossum]

Mega Man has a move that has him spawn leaves to protect him and to fire at people.

Villager has a move where he pulls a weed from the ground to smack someone with. And a move that spawns a tree to attack with.

If these didn't take from a Grass type, I don't see why Isaac would.

....not that either are particularly likely.

Don't forget Peach's turnips, as possibly the earliest example.


...Even though, for whatever reason, they didn't do super effective damage to Squirtle.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't forget Peach's turnips, as possibly the earliest example.


...Even though, for whatever reason, they didn't do super effective damage to Squirtle.

Well, there might be a difference between attacking with a vegetable and attacking with the element of nature itself.

That being said, the "Grass" effect only applied to moves Ivysaur used.
Not even Poké Ball summons like Chikorita used it.

 

[N3ON]

Again, if and can exist without infringing on each other to any real extent, this whole argument is rather baseless, is it not?

Isaac isn't hurting for moveset options, nor are any plausible grass type candidates (of which the list is very very short).

It's a non-issue.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Again, if and can exist without infringing on each other to any real extent, this whole argument is rather baseless, is it not?

Isaac isn't hurting for moveset options, nor are any plausible grass type candidates (of which the list is very very short).

It's a non-issue.

Are Squirtle and Greninja in the same Smash game? I'm not going crazy here, am I? I think Greninja hugely decreases Squirtle's chances of getting back in.

And like I've tried to say, a little bit of shared aesthetics doesn't rule someone out, but it makes a difference. Also, I forgot about MegaMan, since I don't play Sm4sh. Yes, having a move that shoots leaves does take some uniqueness away from a character that uses Razor Leaf, and vice versa.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Are Squirtle and Greninja in the same Smash game? I'm not going crazy here, am I? I think Greninja hugely decreases Squirtle's chances of getting back in.

And like I've tried to say, a little bit of shared aesthetics doesn't rule someone out, but it makes a difference. Also, I forgot about MegaMan, since I don't play Sm4sh. Yes, having a move that shoots leaves does take some uniqueness away from a character that uses Razor Leaf, and vice versa.

The problem is that you think a character having one move is gonna take away the uniqueness when really, a Grass-type Pokemon would end up being as unique as ever because while some people use grass-like moves, a Grass-type would have most, if not all its moveset revolve around it.

Plus, the typing would not be the reason a hypotetical Grass-type gets in, but rather its potential as a fighter. Like how Greninja literally got in just because Sakurai saws him and thought he could do something cool with a ninja frog, not because of its typing. Popularity can't even be an argument since the roster, Greninja included, was decided a year before X and Y released, meaning the popularity of the new Pokemon was unknown at the time (then again, kinda of a no-brainer that a ninja frog would be popular, so meh)

 

[A Distant Demon]

Are Squirtle and Greninja in the same Smash game? I'm not going crazy here, am I? I think Greninja hugely decreases Squirtle's chances of getting back in.

Getting in and uniqueness are completely different arguments.

The point is that the two play and look nothing alike other than vaguely having a water aesthetic.


Charizard didn't infringe on Bowser. Greninja didn't infringe on Sheik. Mega Man didn't infringe on Samus. Etc etc etc. Vague theming similarities really arent a big deal.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

After this post, I don't want to reiterate that little things can affect chances in little ways, and saying that a chance is affected such should not trigger a reaction as if it were a claim that a character completely loses uniqueness, relevance, fit, or whatever else the issue is.

 

[Pacack]

Guys, have we speculated so much that there's nothing more interesting to discuss than this non-issue?

We could always talk about oddball newcomers or something instead.

 

[Luminario]

Guys, have we speculated so much that there's nothing more interesting to discuss than this non-issue?

We could always talk about oddball newcomers or something instead.

But we have yet to go through the returning vets segue into a subject we've discussed 10 times before. My money's on the Ridley discussion this time.

It's also never really much of a wasted discussion either. Besides us regulars there's usually new people around to add their own input

 

[A Distant Demon]

If you want to complain about people talking in circles, bring up new topics and elaborate on them so people have reason to reply to it.

Just saying "discuss something we haven't before" or giving some vague topic with no meat on it doesn't create conversations. Otherwise the complaining is just pointless ****posting that just adds "complaining about topics" to the repeated topics.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You guys want an oddball character?


Byte and Barq for Smash.

How would they work?

Discuss.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I don't know about you lot, but I'd LOVE to see Rabbid Mario make the cut. Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle has easily become one of my favorite Switch games, and with the amount of weapons in the game, there's a lot of moveset potential.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You guys want an oddball character?


Byte and Barq for Smash.

How would they work?

Discuss.

I feel like an owl causing I'm saying who?

But yeah, they don't sound familiar. Probably a newer game I've paid no attention to, although the names sound slightly familiar, like an ARMS character?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I feel like an owl causing I'm saying who?

But yeah, they don't sound familiar. Probably a newer game I've paid no attention to, although the names sound slightly familiar, like an ARMS character?

They are the robot cop duo in ARMS.

 

[N3ON]

I think Labobot would be fun, but I feel if and when Labo gets big it won't be such an oddball choice, given I imagine that people have grown wise to Sakurai's left field tendencies.

Not that he still wouldn't be able to find surprising characters, because he is Sakurai and he is entertainer.

 

[Bowserlick]

You guys want an oddball character?


Byte and Barq for Smash.

How would they work?

Discuss.

Byte and Barq are a two-team fighter. Byte acts as the normal fighter.

Barq appears on the Z-Axis (like Pokemon Trainer in the background except much closer to the fighting; basically the area where characters sidestep and dodge). A press of B has the dog's tongue/arm come out towards the TV screen. He can hit characters that dodge or sidestep or in regular position.

He remains slightly in front of Byte and jumps in the air when Byte does.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Guys, have we speculated so much that there's nothing more interesting to discuss than this non-issue?

We could always talk about oddball newcomers or something instead.

That’s what Smash speculation essentially is. A regurgitation of the same arguments and counter-arguments set in rotation until we get an actual official confirmation from the Grand Holiness Himself.

As for oddball characters, I’m open to seeing an obscure but unique retro getting thrown in like Paperboy, Hayabusa, Goku, Hikari and Donne, Ayumi Tachibana, or Mach Rider.

 

[Pacack]

Removed by user.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

*coughs*

Just going to say this; please stop trying to plug your thread into here. It's now bordering on advertising instead of proper discussion.

Not that I'm against the idea of the character, but you're shoehorning it in now for the sake of it.

 

[Bowserlick]

I want a Mach Rider character that leans into a design inspired by Mad Max. Mach Rider comes from a desolate apocalyptic world with sprawling deserts overrun by vehicle-riding gangs. This is a contrast to the vibrant world of F-Zero with its colorful, flamboyant characters.

He/she can either be strapped to a motorcycle with chains as a mounted character or re-envisioned as a human grafted with vehicle parts. By contorting her/his limbs and torso, Mach Rider can create a motorcycle out of her/his body by linking the artificial parts.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't know about you lot, but I'd LOVE to see Rabbid Mario make the cut. Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle has easily become one of my favorite Switch games, and with the amount of weapons in the game, there's a lot of moveset potential.

I really would not like that at all, in the slightest, to be honest. Give me Rayman or give me nun.

Not that they are entirely unlikely but I still am not a fan of the Rabbids even if they were 'better' in M+R, they were still the weakest part of that game. The enemies we're fine but the Rabbid characters still got on my nerves more than they made me laugh. But they did make me laugh in this game more than anything else they were in so there's that I guess...

 

[Pacack]

Just going to say this; please stop trying to plug your thread into here. It's now bordering on advertising instead of proper discussion.

Not that I'm against the idea of the character, but you're shoehorning it in now for the sake of it.

I'm sorry, that was immature of me. I know better than to force my ideas onto others, especially since I know how annoying that can be from the other side, but I did so anyways. I won't let myself do that again.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I am up for Lyn and Chrom in Smash. Anyone else? ( We almost got to play Lyn in PM, but she was removed when the game was removed. Same with Knuckles ). Tell me Opossum , what notable FE character would you add?

 

[Diddy Kong]

As I completed Dark Dawn for the first time yesterday, I can testify that Isaac would not be a substitute for a Grass type Pokemon. Isaac is far more Ground-based, he's a Venus or Earth Adept and his Psynergy powers combine all of the Earth elemental attacks, as rocks, earthquakes, vines and nettles and other crazy stuff.

Man Dark Dawn's ending REALLY made me want a GS4. It's a damn shame it's probably never gonna happen... I didn't think the game was bad at all either! It was a great 3rd game for Golden Sun, shame it was so overlooked and Camelot is basically only making Mario Tennis now.

Can't the internet cry out for a new Golden Sun game like Camelot asked us to do?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't know about you lot, but I'd LOVE to see Rabbid Mario make the cut. Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle has easily become one of my favorite Switch games, and with the amount of weapons in the game, there's a lot of moveset potential.

Rayman would more than likely receive higher priority than the Rabbids though. And besides, Kingdom Battle is a spin-off title, which doesn't exactly bode well for the spin-off exclusives.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't know about you lot, but I'd LOVE to see Rabbid Mario make the cut. Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle has easily become one of my favorite Switch games, and with the amount of weapons in the game, there's a lot of moveset potential.

I should probably start mentally preparing myself for this. Don't really want the Rabbids in Smash, but since Kingdom Battle is on its way to selling over one million copies (without the help of sales from Japan), it's something that could definitely happen.

That annoying scream of theirs will be the death of me...



So just out of curiosity, how would you rank the third-party characters in likeliness to return? For me, it'd be:

>>>>>

That's from most likely to least likely. Hopefully you gathered that by seeing that Sonic was first.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

So just out of curiosity, how would you rank the third-party characters in likeliness to return? For me, it'd be:

>>>>>

That's from most likely to least likely. Hopefully you gathered that by seeing that Sonic was first.

Probably exactly how you did. Except with Mega and Pac made equal.

 

[Staarih]

Saw this on Twitter. I’ll take it.

#NintendoLabo
ngl I want him in Smash pic.twitter.com/F5K1VGVvYi

— Wattsy -Comms open- (0/3) (@Wattsydraws) January 22, 2018