Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Michele

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Minecraft? Ugh, not that game...
I used to play it, but it was when I was a kid. Now I do not play it anymore, and the idea of having to pay to play online drives me away. Does anyone has this Minecraft nostalgia? We might have had one at a certain point, but then we shifted to Smash.

Also..Vergeben did say there would be Minecraft content, he just doesn't KNOW if it's going to be an AT, stage, character or anything else.
 

Akakomuma

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Okay so everyone is tired from all the ridiculous Goku suggestions. Tbh, I understand your complaints so I have a character much better suited for this series.



:^)
 

Dixie Kong

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I just really hope Vergeben is correct with the Minecraft content, because of Banjo Kazooie of course.
The Banjo Kazooie Minecraft skin on the Switch is great news I have only recently read.
 

Morbi

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Minecraft? Ugh, not that game...
I used to play it, but it was when I was a kid. Now I do not play it anymore, and the idea of having to pay to play online drives me away. Does anyone has this Minecraft nostalgia? We might have had one at a certain point, but then we shifted to Smash.

Also..Vergeben did say there would be Minecraft content, he just doesn't KNOW if it's going to be an AT, stage, character or anything else.
I honestly want Minecraft anything in the game, not because I like Minecraft. I have never played it and the thought of Steve in Smash used to give me breathing problems. However, I want it because that means Nintendo met with Microsoft and that means Banjo as DLC, baby! Give me all the Minecraft... Except a character.
 

Michele

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Okay so everyone is tired from all the ridiculous Goku suggestions. Tbh, I understand your complaints so I have a character much better suited for this series.



:^)
Wow, you just fooled me, nice...

But I just realized one thing...If Vergeben is right....

Then Banjo might be finally coming...
 

Diddy Kong

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To be honest, after the Black Knight discussion I'd definitely be on board with him. He'd make sense as an echo and he is one of the most feasible villains you can add from the franchise thanks to his high popularity, which would make him stand out from the others even if he's an echo. Plus getting him in would mean getting his great voice acting, and that alone is worth the inclusion.

Lyn would be great as well, but... Yeah...
The Black Knight does seem to have unseen potential. Ike's games might be getting a port soon, as they are immensively popular and also use 3D renders and didn't sell all too well when released innitially. Plus the Black Knight had a Mii Costume, and lot of playable characters (all outside of the Belmonts!) have had an upgrading role from a previous Smash game.

Dark Samus was a AT
Ridley was a boss twice, and a stage obstacle later
King K.Rool had a Mii Costume
Inkling the same
Chrom was Falcon Punched out of Smash and part of Robin's Final Smash
Daisy was a skin of Peach ever since Melee

Now tell me Black Knight isn't a possibility.
 

Zeox

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So, question, if characters have to keep getting killed (Like Mario and Luigi) who and how would die in a trailer for your most wanted newcomer?
 

Michele

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Yep. I've been saying that if Verge is right about the Minecraft content I think Banjo is in
If it's all true...Well, this would be the biggest breakthrough in Smash's history in my opinion, Unill now, there were Nintendo fighters (Yes I know that Snake came in, but it's only because he was in Nintendo one time), but this breakthrough means that the future Smash might possibly get different characters from different companies, whenever it be Microsoft, Sony, or Google (Yes, I heard that Google is trying to create a console. Just a rumor, though), or anything else. We'd call it fourth party.

The final breakthrough in my opinion would be if Goku or any character from Anime/Manga came in the game (Yes, I know it's not happening but still), because this means at this point Smash will possibly have a lot of characters, whenever it be Nintendo, outside Nintendo but in gaming industry, or outside industry!
 

Dixie Kong

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So, question, if characters have to keep getting killed (Like Mario and Luigi) who and how would die in a trailer for your most wanted newcomer?
Dixie Kong finds out Diddy has been cheating with Candy. Need I say more?
 

MasterOfKnees

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I don't think Microsoft will have a character at launch, they've been pretty tight with Nintendo recently, but not so much back in 2015/16. I think after they began collaborating on a bunch of stuff at some point having Minecraft content in Smash was brought up and the opportunity was seized, but I'm pretty confident it happened too late for any playable character additions. Or maybe Sakurai contacting them about Banjo is what sparked it, but I find that less likely.

For what it's worth I do think we're incredibly likely to get a Microsoft character at some point, but I'm skeptical about it being at launch.
 

Icedragonadam

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So, question, if characters have to keep getting killed (Like Mario and Luigi) who and how would die in a trailer for your most wanted newcomer?
Lloyd throws Pit & Dark Pit off a cliff with his swords because he mistook them for Angels of Cruxis.

Skull Kid kills Link & Zelda in Termina by caushing the moon to crash on them in Clock Town.
 
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D

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So after clearing my cache, i can finally use Simon and K.Rool's icons.


:ultsimon:


:ultkrool:


About goddamn time.


Regarding Vergeben, it always stuck out to me that he said "there's Minecarft content" and NOT "Steven is playable". His leaks are always related to playable characters (even if he doesn't know exactly who the character specifically is, like the Gen 7 Pokémon outside of it not beign Deci or Lyc) and the fact that Banjo's support revival happened during the Ballot days............


.........here's hoping. Monster Hunter proves that you can have quite the meaty content from a Third Party series without having a playable character.
 

Arcanir

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Since I saw this being mentoined earlier.. What about the chances of a Monster Hunter as a fighter? I personally think that Rathalos as a boss and Assist Trophy already covers the most "important" things of Monster Hunter, the games being far more centralised about the monsters than the Hunters themselves. As well as the kitty helpers. Both the kitty helpers and Rathalos seem to appear in cross-overs and spin-offs more than the actual Monster Hunter. And I can't picture them going for ONE weaponstyle to represent the whole franchise.

I wouldn't be against it, had tons of fun with Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii. But I think I prefer having the Monsters from it appearing as bosses and the like. Rathian could and should also appear for example, and be a sort of double boss battle like some of the missions in Monster Hunter. As for other potential Monsters I'd like to see appear.. I'd like to fight the Lagiacrus in Ultimate.
It's possible as they don't really talk about the stage/boss area Rathalos is on (leaving room for them to go into depth on it later), but even as a big MH fan I'm personally not really counting on it. I feel Third Party characters are those that Sakurai likes to keep in his pocket for a big reveal later on, and generally he doesn't hint at their inclusion until he's ready to talk about them. So for him to just drop the Rathalos on us, a monster that's iconic to the series and gets huge mileage in crossovers, and then not give us a character alongside them really makes me think he's not planning on adding anything huge then that. At best I'm guessing we'll get the stage and some additional content like music out of it, but other then that I don't think it's in the cards.

DLC may be a different beast though, World blew up and that's bound to lead to a lot more popularity for the franchises and characters, so it may allow for a revisit.

Edit: Greninja'd on the main point.
 
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Pizzanigs

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If it's all true...Well, this would be the biggest breakthrough in Smash's history in my opinion, Unill now, there were Nintendo fighters (Yes I know that Snake came in, but it's only because he was in Nintendo one time), but this breakthrough means that the future Smash might possibly get different characters from different companies, whenever it be Microsoft, Sony, or Google (Yes, I heard that Google is trying to create a console. Just a rumor, though), or anything else. We'd call it fourth party.

The final breakthrough in my opinion would be if Goku or any character from Anime/Manga came in the game (Yes, I know it's not happening but still), because this means at this point Smash will possibly have a lot of characters, whenever it be Nintendo, outside Nintendo but in gaming industry, or outside industry!
Eh, I'm one of those people who despise the idea of Goku getting in lol. So Banjo would be my personal ultimate breakthrough
 

MainJPW

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Sonic get shot by someone and then Shadow walks in, stares at Sonic and kicks *** like in Now That's What I Call Edgy 2005
That literally already happened at E3 2005:

And it took like a trillion machinegun bullets to do it.


So I guess it'd be like that. EDIT: They didn't even kill him actually.
 
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Iridium

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Lloyd throws Pit & Dark Pit off a cliff with his swords because he mistook them for Angels of Cruxis.

Skull Kid kills Link & Zelda in Termina by caushing the moon to crash on them in Clock Town.
So where does Young Link go?
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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If it's all true...Well, this would be the biggest breakthrough in Smash's history in my opinion, Unill now, there were Nintendo fighters (Yes I know that Snake came in, but it's only because he was in Nintendo one time), but this breakthrough means that the future Smash might possibly get different characters from different companies, whenever it be Microsoft, Sony, or Google (Yes, I heard that Google is trying to create a console. Just a rumor, though), or anything else. We'd call it fourth party.

The final breakthrough in my opinion would be if Goku or any character from Anime/Manga came in the game (Yes, I know it's not happening but still), because this means at this point Smash will possibly have a lot of characters, whenever it be Nintendo, outside Nintendo but in gaming industry, or outside industry!
To be honest, I consider the final breakthrough to be Popeye after he's fully-become public domain, since he is the spiritual ancestor of Mario.
 

Blue7113

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If some Minecraft content gets banjo and kazooie in then I’m all in for a stage or an assist trophy. Never thought I’d be saying that.
 

Guybrush20X6

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So, question, if characters have to keep getting killed (Like Mario and Luigi) who and how would die in a trailer for your most wanted newcomer?
For Gardevoir, given how touchy GF is, most likley Greninja or Lucario would be KO'd, leaving the untouchable mouse in tact.
(Still surprised Sakurai got away with sticking him in a torture tube in SSE)
 

ShinyRegice

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Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario
Okay here's mine: (includes both potential regulars and Echos)
  1. Bandana Dee
  2. Shadow
  3. Isabelle
  4. Incineroar
  5. Ken
  6. Akuma
  7. Dixie Kong
  8. Impa
  9. Skull Kid
  10. Nihilego
In addition I believe characters in italic and of the same color are mutually exclusive since they fill pretty much the same niche as potential newcomers.

As I believe evidence suggests we're not getting any character from a currently unrepresented series I've deliberately chosen to put only potential new representatives for already represented series.

Here's my reasoning:
  • Bandana Dee's absence would surprise me, he has been one of the most requested characters and is often thought of as a logical inclusion considering the prominence he has gained over the years as a face of Kirby. His absence as a cameo in King Dedede's new Final Smash is suspicious consideing how many more of them we have (I'm referring to how the Final Smash of Ness, Lucas, Shulk and Mega Man were updated), as the scene this new FS is inspired from has Bandana Dee as the sole spectator.
  • Shadow is a very popular Sonic character with pretty much the same body shape. With the floodgates being open for third-party Echoes, Shadow seems like a logical choice.
  • Isabelle has basically been the breakout non-human character from Animal Crossing and a legit Nintendo All-Star. I don't know enough about AC to say if she makes more sense as an Echo or a regular character, and in the later case I don't know enough to imagine what the moveset could look like, but I respect the character's fame enough to see her as one of the most likely characters.
  • Incineroar is the obligatory generation VII Pokémon rep. "Relevance" may be less impactful than before but I still believe can play in a character's favor. Adding a new Pokémon from the latest generation is I think likely considering the variety in design the series has to offer and its huge star power which makes choosing a Pokémon with a privileged role (like a starter) a low-risk move. Considering it's been speculated about by a reputable leaker and it will likely be an important Pokémon for Ash in the anime, Incineroar seens like a reasonable choice for the Pokémon newcomer.
  • If I combined Ken's and Akuma's chances into a single list slot then I believe it would actually be at the top of the list. Ryu is very well-known for his clones in his home series and when you think about it, giving multiple playable characters to a fighting game series with a large cast just feels right. Ken is the original Ryu clone while Akuma tends to have more crossover appearances, but considering we got a Ken trophy in Smash 4 as a bonus to the purchase of Ryu then he's likely who Sakurai would go for. I consider them to be roughly equal in chances, but as I imagine Sakurai having the most decision power, I'd say Ken gets a slight edge over Akuma.
  • In my opinion King K. Rool's confirmation don't hurt Dixie Kong very much because she's still a highly requested character and I don't think she competes that much with him than any other popular Nintendo candidate, after all we got both Rosalina and Bowser Jr. in the last game. She could work as either a regular newcomer or an Echo of Diddy Kong with some Chrom-like liberties. Anyway she's a popular and easy to implement character who reappeared in her home series thanks to Tropical Freeze, so she just makes a lot of sense.
  • Impa is a popular and in my opinion requested enough fighter to be aknowledged as such as Sakurai and getting in as an Echo of Sheik as a result, in either her Skyward Sword or Hyrule Warriors appearance (or a mix of both?) which happen to be her more popular designs. Sheik's new Final Smash also fit her very well.
  • I used to think Skull Kid wasn't really a standing out candidate, but after realizing his semi-mascot status as a Legend of Zelda character (more so than Midna for example), the promonence of Majora's Mask (the item) as iconic to the series, and other things that play in his favor (remaining characters likely from already represented series, no AT shown yet, "relevance" not being as much of a big deal as we would have expected and the recent rumors) I think he actually has a decent shot. I still put him low on my list because I still find it to be a fairly surprising choice, although one that makes sense.
  • Nihilego is in case Incineroar isn't the generation VII Pokémon and would make sense as a representative of the Ultra Beasts. Its moveset and appearance would be fairly unique, especially compared to other playable Pokémon characters.
And now I'm curious to count which characters were cited how often. Might be interesting to see what's the general consensus on which characters are likely now. And of course watch the final newcomer list look nothing like mine (nor like the general consensus).

Edit more than one month and half later: fixed typos (yeah I fix typos even from old posts)
 
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Nethermoosen

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Yes they can have a lot of overlap, but again her central gimmick is something new to Smash. No other fighter uses their hair as a primary weapon and tool, and she can do that (well Bayonetta uses her hair as clothing and for some moves, but its' magical weird hair that's totally different; this video game series is too weird to explain).

Compare Dixie Kong to the other Echo Fighters we got: Lucina and Chrom are Marth's descendants with the same weapon and a mostly similar offensive style. Dark Samus is an actual Samus clone. Daisy has always been treated as "Brunette Peach."

The top Echo Fighter candidates right now are "Sonic but evil" (Shadow and I guess Metal Sonic too), "Ryu's lifelong training partner who knows and masters the same exact fighting style" (Ken), and "a Sheikah ninja that isn't Zelda" (Impa). That's very closely tied together characters. Those are classic clone characters.

All the playable characters in DKC games (DK64 included) play very differently and have different movesets/skillsets. Dixie when tagged alongside Diddy Kong does very different things despite a similar frame. Dixie does this while starring in her own game too (DKC3).

So why should Dixie Kong be an Echo Fighter? It just doesn't fit.
Dixie still did the exact same thing as Diddy, except she could hover. That was the only mechanical difference.

Not saying she shouldn’t be unique, but she was not very different from Diddy. Even DK wasn’t very different.

Either way works in this case. Hope for the best, but I disagree Dixie was special other than her grabbing with her hair(which is just another grab), Attack with her hair(same effect as Diddy’s cartwheel) and hovering, the only unique thing about her mechanically.
 

Johnknight1

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You are just biased. The whole echo distinction is entirely arbitrary, if you have not noticed. You can water down any character to make them appear the same or talk up any character to justify that they are unique. The FACT of the matter is that unless a character is a literal clone, they do not HAVE to be an echo fighter. That being said, we are just here to discuss what is likely. And in my personal opinion, Dixie as an echo makes more sense than Dixie as a uniquely playable character. That is for damned sure.
????

Our biases are what make our opinions different btw and they are fine as long as we aren't trampling on other people for wanting or seeing things other ways.

And you admit to something being your opinion (which infers bias) lol.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Speaking of Dixie, and being a Echo... yes it would suck for her to become one. Yet am confident that with a new game, she would be one of the first characters to be fixed. And seeing how K.Rool made it in, I couldn't complain about Echo Dixie Kong. Especially since Chrom seems to imply there's more to them than being like Dark Pit.

As a Echo, Dixie can still be unique if they managed to tag other character's mechanics unto her. For example DK's Cargo throw mechanics, and a similar concept to Peach's float. Now make Dixie a little slower, lighter and overall weaker than Diddy, and she's essentially already far more unique than all the other Echoes, and a few non-Echo clones as Dr.Mario, Young Link and Pichu.

Dixie has such potential, that even whilst being a Echo, she could feel like a semi-clone.

Situation is FAR FROM IDEAL... and we have a way better potential DKC Echo Fighter with Funky Kong, but I would gladly take it. Need I remind you? King K.Rool is in Smash Bros. now. Anything else is icing on the cake.

Ideally, she would be a new semi-clone addition much to the akin of Lucas or Wolf. But with this in mind, she could easily be more unique than even Toon Link compared to BotW Link.
Quoting myself because my post is undervallued and just overall of great quality.. plus I need to add to this.

Does Smash really warrant a Top Tier character Echo with better / more safe recovery options?

Ask yourself that before you suggest a Dixie Kong Echo.

She would require tweaks as not to become overpowered. Much like I believe that Dark Samus will be compensated somewhere for her having a regular roll and Chrom will also probably be slower (in movement speed) than Roy because his sword will work like Lucina's.
 

Wyoming

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So, question, if characters have to keep getting killed (Like Mario and Luigi) who and how would die in a trailer for your most wanted newcomer?
It's Phoenix Wright so.... all of them.
 

KMDP

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So, question, if characters have to keep getting killed (Like Mario and Luigi) who and how would die in a trailer for your most wanted newcomer?
Non-trailer related.
:ultbayonetta: will have something to say about :ultpit: and :ultdarkpit:.
:ultshulk: goes after :ultrob: because ROBs a Robot.

As for an Isaac trailer: I can picture it being on Venus Lighthouse and someone falling into the tower's 'well'.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Dixie still did the exact same thing as Diddy, except she could hover. That was the only mechanical difference.

Not saying she shouldn’t be unique, but she was not very different from Diddy. Even DK wasn’t very different.

Either way works in this case. Hope for the best, but I disagree Dixie was special other than her grabbing with her hair(which is just another grab), Attack with her hair(same effect as Diddy’s cartwheel) and hovering, the only unique thing about her mechanically.
You mean, all the different modes of attacking in a basic platformer as Donkey Kong Country, Dixie is showing drastic differences compared to DK and Diddy? Yet DK and Diddy don't share similar moves at all?

Curious how that works.......
 

Mutsukki

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If it's all true...Well, this would be the biggest breakthrough in Smash's history in my opinion, Unill now, there were Nintendo fighters (Yes I know that Snake came in, but it's only because he was in Nintendo one time), but this breakthrough means that the future Smash might possibly get different characters from different companies, whenever it be Microsoft, Sony, or Google (Yes, I heard that Google is trying to create a console. Just a rumor, though), or anything else. We'd call it fourth party.

The final breakthrough in my opinion would be if Goku or any character from Anime/Manga came in the game (Yes, I know it's not happening but still), because this means at this point Smash will possibly have a lot of characters, whenever it be Nintendo, outside Nintendo but in gaming industry, or outside industry!
The moment Smash becomes this I'll lose interest. I don't mind the third parties because they are all huge video game icons, but we step away from that and we'll need a reminder that this is a celebration of Nintendo history (with a bit of videogame history into it) and not just a huge crossover festival. Leave that to Tekken or Soul Calibur, leave Smash the way it is is all I ask.
 

Nethermoosen

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You mean, all the different modes of attacking in a basic platformer as Donkey Kong Country, Dixie is showing drastic differences compared to DK and Diddy? Yet DK and Diddy don't share similar moves at all?

Curious how that works.......
Lol. I didn’t say she shouldn’t be unique, just saying, she was not super unique in DKC. That’s a fact. Nothing more to read into it.
 
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