Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Diddy Kong

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I do wonder if the Mii Costumes are enough of a possibility to pull Tails in over Shadow. Shadow didn't get a Mii costume, Tails did. And for the exception of the Belmonts (But Konami wasn't involved in Smash 4 so that's kind of moot) and the Metroid newcomers. All the newcomers were mii costumes in Smash 4.

Even characters that didn't get playable that were Mii costumes still felt like they got an upgrade. Knuckles to AT, Toad to no longer a meat shield, Zero to AT, Proto Man to part of Megaman's Final Smash, etc.

I don't think the Mii costumes are the be-all, end-all for newcomer choices of course. But based on what many Mii costumes have gotten thus far, Tails should be upgraded further then just his cameo if Knuckles and maybe Shadow might.
It just makes a lot more sense to have Tails before Shadow. My first choice actually would've been Knuckles, but that ship has sailed.

I don't even care for Sonic to be honest, but if I had to pick, I choose Tails. I do think a 2nd Sonic character is likely, and I thought so before Echoes honestly.
 

Iridium

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So, now we can have :ultroy::ultchrom::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultike::ultcorrin::ultrobin all fight at once now. Imagine someone thinking we would get 7 characters from the franchise since Melee.

Doesn't have to be Lucina or Chrom, but just any FE character. But what do I know? Melee itself is older than me!
 

Johnknight1

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Dixie could easily be an echo. And it hardly matters if she uses her hair. Up b changes to the spin. Cool. Jab becomes Diddy’s from Smash 4 but uses hair for the tail jabs. Cartwheel can change to the hair twirl with relatively minor hitbox changes. What else needs to be changed? The hair grabs? Cool. Change animations, keep effects the same.
Dixie could easily be a clone, but it wouldn't fit how she plays in DKC3 or DKC: Tropical Freeze The hair would be used for most of her attacks, from tilts, to specials to Smash attacks, because her hair is her central gimmick. While yes she would borrow a lot of "base attacks" from Diddy Kong (really most of the cast uses many of the same base attacks), that's far removed from what a clone let alone an Echo Fighter is.

Making Dixie Kong an Echo Fighter would remove much of that personality and uniqueness. That's far removed from Sakurai's style.

Side note: would really be cool if instead of a banana peel Dixie's Down B is a Barrel summon instead of a Banana Peel; and she can pick it up super quickly and throw it p far (3 different distances per standard throw mechanics) with her hair or use it like a melee weapon (ie: a beam sword) but it breaks after one usage.

That's the kind of cool stuff Sakurai would come up with/implement if Dixie is playable in favor of her being an Echo Fighter.
 

KMDP

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I do wonder if the Mii Costumes are enough of a possibility to pull Tails in over Shadow. Shadow didn't get a Mii costume, Tails did. And for the exception of the Belmonts (But Konami wasn't involved in Smash 4 so that's kind of moot) and the Metroid newcomers. All the newcomers were mii costumes in Smash 4.

Even characters that didn't get playable that were Mii costumes still felt like they got an upgrade. Knuckles to AT, Toad to no longer a meat shield, Zero to AT, Proto Man to part of Megaman's Final Smash, etc.

I don't think the Mii costumes are the be-all, end-all for newcomer choices of course. But based on what many Mii costumes have gotten thus far, Tails should be upgraded further then just his cameo if Knuckles and maybe Shadow might.
The thing is, we might get both Shadow and Tails.

Shadow's model already existed in Smash and could be touched up, Tails got a Mii Costume (he did have a model for GHZ, but that's probably pretty low poly), presumably to get started on a higher polygon model.
 

Hinata

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So, now we can have :ultroy::ultchrom::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultike::ultcorrin::ultrobin all fight at once now. Imagine someone thinking we would get 7 characters from the franchise since Melee.

Doesn't have to be Lucina or Chrom, but just any FE character. But what do I know? Melee itself is older than me!
We're one fighter away from a full 8-player Fire Emblem fight!

We can already do a full 8-player third party match and then some (:ultbayonetta::ultcloud::ultmegaman::ultpacman::ultryu::ultsonic::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultsnake:) so why not Fire Emblem?
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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I've pretty much accepted it, yes. But I'm still afraid that my biggest fear of Isabelle returning as an assist trophy might happen. (I even had a dream a few nights ago that she was de-confirmed, that's how worried about it I am). Nonetheless, I'm about 90% convinced they're both gonna be playable.


He did, but just because he says she's an echo doesn't 100% confirm anything. His source, if he even has one, could be wrong. It's possible that he's wrong about Isabelle and that she returns as an AT. But I believe he's right.
Did Vergeben actually confirm Isabelle as an echo??? This is interesting since he seems to lack all other info on echoes... I still believe he has some sources, and I think he's right on Isabelle. But I'm lost on why he knows of some echoes but not others (Richter is especially confusing. He was even in the same reveal trailer).
More people should bet on a Resident Evil character TBH. I have zero relationship with the series, yet I feel certain that Resident Evil will get a character with how big and impactful this Japanese franchise is worldwide. I understand the genre and mature tone of RE characters can easily make people think the likelihood of a RE character happening are next to 0%. But after the successful implementation of Snake/Bayonetta in Smash and reading what Sakurai said about the remaining world-wide Japanese franchises that have yet to appear in Smash, I feel Resident Evil is next in line for the next big surprise third party after the big shock that was Cloud. As of now, I am betting that we could get Leon, with Jill as an Echo. I wish that I put Jill in my finalized predictions though, though it is not a big deal. :p
I've read your thoughts on this and you know what, I can see it, but for DLC. I also predict a persona character for DLC for similar reasons.

I really want an RE rep but I don't know how they'll handle the zombies/monsters. They're very gruesome and not the least bit cartoonish...
 

RandomAce

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So, does everyone just kinda accept "Shadow and Isabelle are in" at this point?

They pretty much seem like the 2 most obvious Echos.
Not me, weirdly enough I feel like they’re not actually in the game despite what people say, there was a lot more concrete evidence to support why Chrom and Dark Samus might be Echoes, and Sakurai even said that he knew that we knew. But it’s less for the other two.

Plus, the idea of Shadow actual being playable in a Nintendo cross over is grinding my gears.
 

Icedragonadam

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:ultsimon: says, I'm finally glad to see the new icons on here now on my google :ultchrom:.
 
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Nethermoosen

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Dixie could easily be a clone, but it wouldn't fit how she plays in DKC3 or DKC: Tropical Freeze The hair would be used for most of her attacks, from tilts, to specials to Smash attacks, because her hair is her central gimmick. While yes she would borrow a lot of "base attacks" from Diddy Kong (really most of the cast uses many of the same base attacks), that's far removed from what a clone let alone an Echo Fighter is.

Making Dixie Kong an Echo Fighter would remove much of that personality and uniqueness. That's far removed from Sakurai's style.

Side note: would really be cool if instead of a banana peel Dixie's Down B is a Barrel summon instead of a Banana Peel; and she can pick it up super quickly and throw it p far (3 different distances per standard throw mechanics) with her hair or use it like a melee weapon (ie: a beam sword) but it breaks after one usage.

That's the kind of cool stuff Sakurai would come up with/implement if Dixie is playable in favor of her being an Echo Fighter.
Well, they both only really do a couple of things in their original games. She works as an echo to me, because she requires a lot of filling in for moves she really just doesn’t have.

If she’s entirely unique, that’s awesome. But she works with Diddy’s moveset in most cases with some animation changes. I can see up b and the pop gun being specific to Diddy only, but everything else would fit.

Here’s hoping she’ll be more unique, anyhow. Unique fighters are always more exciting.
 

Tougon

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We're one fighter away from a full 8-player Fire Emblem fight!

We can already do a full 8-player third party match and then some (:ultbayonetta::ultcloud::ultmegaman::ultpacman::ultryu::ultsonic::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultsnake:) so why not Fire Emblem?
You have :ultshulk:

He must be a Fire Emblem character because he's a pretty boy that uses a sword.
 

Morbi

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So, now we can have :ultroy::ultchrom::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultike::ultcorrin::ultrobin all fight at once now. Imagine someone thinking we would get 7 characters from the franchise since Melee.

Doesn't have to be Lucina or Chrom, but just any FE character. But what do I know? Melee itself is older than me!
I thought that it was not much of a stretch after we got six or whatever last time. If anything, I am surprised that we cannot have a full eight player Smash with them. I suppose there is always DLC for that.

All I know is that my sister loves them and she was worried that they were going to get purged in the Switch version of Smash. The opposite happened. More and more of them. They are multiplying!
 

NintenZ

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If Ashley's disconfirmation means anything in regards to speculation, it is that you cannot just think of the factors "relevance", "fan popularity", and "unique moveset potential" and simply make a conclusion that a newcomer is likely and have high expectations because of it. Even in the midst of perfect timing and promotion for a game like WarioWare Gold and giant number of supporters getting increasingly confident of her inclusion, you still have to think about other things like the degree of promotion, the prominence of the character's role in the series, and consider how late of a game Gold is to actually factor into her inclusion (Even if Gold game development and planning began around the time of Ultimate's project plan, if 4chan leaks are any indication.)

Personally, I thought the lack of notable, frequent Ashley promotion in Japan after 2015 made me suspicious that Nintendo was not confident in promoting her as much Rosalina and Isabellle in the long term. Plus, being that the latest WW game that Sakurai would likely take note of when considering Ashley, Game and Wario, did not give the witch a notable role that towered over other WW characters.

When speculating unique newcomers, it is very important consider more factors than just the simple positives.
I think what also had to do with her exclusion was that Sakurai likely wasn’t contacted about WarioWare Gold, both her an 5-Volt appear to be based off their Game and Wario proportions and design-wise (Though Ashley’s pupils are red likely as a little way to tie in her design) and most of the WarioWare content seems to be more in-line with classic entries of the series. I feel if Sakurai was contacted about Gold he would have likely been more certain about the future of Ashley and her series.
 

dezeray112

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My ten characters list who are likely to be in Ultimate (in no particular order.)

1. 7th Generation Rep - Inciniroar, Tapu Koko or Buzzwole.
2. Skull Kid.
3. Elma.
4. Isaac.
5. Shadow (Echo)
6. Isabelle (Echo)
7. A new Bandai Namco Rep between Heihachi Mishima or Lloyd Irving.
8. Ken/Akuma/Sakura (Echo)
9. Monster Hunter.
10. Geno.
 

T-Hell

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Man I can't wait to get my hands on the game and do simple things like, trying out all the original 8s, unlocking my boy Villager and try him out, unlock some of my mains like G&W, ROB and Pacman and try them out..
Starting a new Smash game has to be one of the greatest and most exciting feelings I feel as a gamer.
 

Johnknight1

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Well, they both only really do a couple of things in their original games. She works as an echo to me, because she requires a lot of filling in for moves she really just doesn’t have.

If she’s entirely unique, that’s awesome. But she works with Diddy’s moveset in most cases with some animation changes. I can see up b and the pop gun being specific to Diddy only, but everything else would fit.

Here’s hoping she’ll be more unique, anyhow. Unique fighters are always more exciting.
Yes they can have a lot of overlap, but again her central gimmick is something new to Smash. No other fighter uses their hair as a primary weapon and tool, and she can do that (well Bayonetta uses her hair as clothing and for some moves, but its' magical weird hair that's totally different; this video game series is too weird to explain).

Compare Dixie Kong to the other Echo Fighters we got: Lucina and Chrom are Marth's descendants with the same weapon and a mostly similar offensive style. Dark Samus is an actual Samus clone. Daisy has always been treated as "Brunette Peach."

The top Echo Fighter candidates right now are "Sonic but evil" (Shadow and I guess Metal Sonic too), "Ryu's lifelong training partner who knows and masters the same exact fighting style" (Ken), and "a Sheikah ninja that isn't Zelda" (Impa). That's very closely tied together characters. Those are classic clone characters.

All the playable characters in DKC games (DK64 included) play very differently and have different movesets/skillsets. Dixie when tagged alongside Diddy Kong does very different things despite a similar frame. Dixie does this while starring in her own game too (DKC3).

So why should Dixie Kong be an Echo Fighter? It just doesn't fit.
 
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Kuon

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Did Vergeben actually confirm Isabelle as an echo??? This is interesting since he seems to lack all other info on echoes... I still believe he has some sources, and I think he's right on Isabelle. But I'm lost on why he knows of some echoes but not others (Richter is especially confusing. He was even in the same reveal trailer).

I've read your thoughts on this and you know what, I can see it, but for DLC. I also predict a persona character for DLC for similar reasons.

I really want an RE rep but I don't know how they'll handle the zombies/monsters. They're very gruesome and not the least bit cartoonish...
Yes, his source told him that she's an echo, so I guess that means he has a little bit of info on echoes

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...mate_newcomer_in_the_smash/e3zrfj0/?context=3

I never read Verg saying that and I've read every Reddit post he put out over the last 2 months.

If it's a post with their name not on Reddit, it's not actually from them.
He said that his source says that they heard she's an echo

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...mate_newcomer_in_the_smash/e3zrfj0/?context=3
 
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Diddy Kong

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Speaking of Dixie, and being a Echo... yes it would suck for her to become one. Yet am confident that with a new game, she would be one of the first characters to be fixed. And seeing how K.Rool made it in, I couldn't complain about Echo Dixie Kong. Especially since Chrom seems to imply there's more to them than being like Dark Pit.

As a Echo, Dixie can still be unique if they managed to tag other character's mechanics unto her. For example DK's Cargo throw mechanics, and a similar concept to Peach's float. Now make Dixie a little slower, lighter and overall weaker than Diddy, and she's essentially already far more unique than all the other Echoes, and a few non-Echo clones as Dr.Mario, Young Link and Pichu.

Dixie has such potential, that even whilst being a Echo, she could feel like a semi-clone.

Situation is FAR FROM IDEAL... and we have a way better potential DKC Echo Fighter with Funky Kong, but I would gladly take it. Need I remind you? King K.Rool is in Smash Bros. now. Anything else is icing on the cake.

Ideally, she would be a new semi-clone addition much to the akin of Lucas or Wolf. But with this in mind, she could easily be more unique than even Toon Link compared to BotW Link.
 

KMDP

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Katanas aren't allowed and chainsaws are?
Yes. Katanas are the devil from the East.

Also, Lyn is weird because she also uses a Bow.

Robin is pushing it with his book.
Also...
:ultroy:: NO (MAYBE-)MOM I'M HAVING FUN WITH MY FRIENDS! YOU'RE RUINING IT!
The real reason Lyn still isn't playable.

At least Lucina is nicer to her maybe-Mom and let's her join in.
 
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dezeray112

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In terms of character entrances, what would Simon, Richter and King K. Rool's would be like?

Other than that, does anyone expect a new gameplay build for Ultimate within the Gamescom event?
 
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Wyoming

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In terms of character entrances, what would Simon, Richter and King K. Rool's would be like?
We saw Rool's. He lands and laughs.

I wish he flew out from a cannon from the Gangplank Galleon in comical fashion but eh.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Anyone thinks that the SNES Mini could be related to the newcomers we are getting?

I mean, right now, 4 of these games can be linked to 4 newcomers, these being:

Super Castlevania IV (Simon), Donkey Kong Country (K. Rool), Super Metroid (Game that made Ridley popular), Castlevania Dracula X (Richter).

So, every real newcomer besides Splatoon have a game in this console, including one echo.
(And don't forget, this console have Super Mario RPG... Geno could be next...)
Didn't even consider this... But yes! It apperantly is helping.

Also thank you for reminding me that I need the SNES Mini in my life.
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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Michele

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I'm not sure about this, and I'm pretty sure nobody realized it yet, so I wanted to post it as I thought of it now.
I realized...If Shadow becomes playable in Ultimate...

This means that the entire crew from Super Mario Bros Z will be playable in a official Nintendo game.
 

Iridium

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I'm glad someone showed this, because I actually remember this. Luigi's not okay.
 

Morbi

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Yes they can have a lot of overlap, but again her central gimmick is something new to Smash. No other fighter uses their hair as a primary weapon and tool, and she can do that (well Bayonetta uses her hair as clothing and for some moves, but its' magical weird hair that's totally different; this video game series is too weird to explain).

Compare Dixie Kong to the other Echo Fighters we got: Lucina and Chrom are Marth's descendants with the same weapon and a mostly similar offensive style. Dark Samus is an actual Samus clone. Daisy has always been treated as "Brunette Peach."

The top Echo Fighter candidates right now are "Sonic but evil" (Shadow and I guess Metal Sonic too), "Ryu's lifelong training partner who knows and masters the same exact fighting style" (Ken), and "a Sheikah ninja that isn't Zelda" (Impa). That's very closely tied together characters. Those are classic clone characters.

All the playable characters in DKC games (DK64 included) play very differently and have different movesets/skillsets. Dixie when tagged alongside Diddy Kong does very different things despite a similar frame. Dixie does this while starring in her own game too (DKC3).

So why should Dixie Kong be an Echo Fighter? It just doesn't fit.
You are just biased. The whole echo distinction is entirely arbitrary, if you have not noticed. You can water down any character to make them appear the same or talk up any character to justify that they are unique. The FACT of the matter is that unless a character is a literal clone, they do not HAVE to be an echo fighter. That being said, we are just here to discuss what is likely. And in my personal opinion, Dixie as an echo makes more sense than Dixie as a uniquely playable character. That is for damned sure.
 

RileyXY1

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https://www.inverse.com/article/48024-smash-bros-ultimate-roster-still-adding-2-new-characters
Welp. Vergebens been right all this time. so Isabelle and Steve are basically guarantees at this point. I know Steve is a bit controversial, but what are your thoughts? I Don't play too much Minecraft, only occasionally, But I'm actually pretty excited to see Steve, and i Can't wait to see his moveset.

(Shocked i actually predicted Steve)
He said that Minecraft would be getting some content. He never specified what that content was.
 

MalcolmBelmont

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https://www.inverse.com/article/48024-smash-bros-ultimate-roster-still-adding-2-new-characters
Welp. Vergebens been right all this time. so Isabelle and Steve are basically guarantees at this point. I know Steve is a bit controversial, but what are your thoughts? I Don't play too much Minecraft, only occasionally, But I'm actually pretty excited to see Steve, and i Can't wait to see his moveset.

(Shocked i actually predicted Steve)
Verg never said Minecraft would get a charcter representation. Honestly i have a feeling it won't be a charcter but a stage or assist trophy
 

Zeox

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https://www.inverse.com/article/48024-smash-bros-ultimate-roster-still-adding-2-new-characters
Welp. Vergebens been right all this time. so Isabelle and Steve are basically guarantees at this point. I know Steve is a bit controversial, but what are your thoughts? I Don't play too much Minecraft, only occasionally, But I'm actually pretty excited to see Steve, and i Can't wait to see his moveset.

(Shocked i actually predicted Steve)
Vergeben said that Minecraft was represented as an either assist trophy or Stage, not character.
 

Diddy Kong

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Since I saw this being mentoined earlier.. What about the chances of a Monster Hunter as a fighter? I personally think that Rathalos as a boss and Assist Trophy already covers the most "important" things of Monster Hunter, the games being far more centralised about the monsters than the Hunters themselves. As well as the kitty helpers. Both the kitty helpers and Rathalos seem to appear in cross-overs and spin-offs more than the actual Monster Hunter. And I can't picture them going for ONE weaponstyle to represent the whole franchise.

I wouldn't be against it, had tons of fun with Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii. But I think I prefer having the Monsters from it appearing as bosses and the like. Rathian could and should also appear for example, and be a sort of double boss battle like some of the missions in Monster Hunter. As for other potential Monsters I'd like to see appear.. I'd like to fight the Lagiacrus in Ultimate.
 

KMDP

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"No other character uses their hair as a primary weapon and tool"
...
...
:ultbayonetta:
 

Pyra

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https://www.inverse.com/article/48024-smash-bros-ultimate-roster-still-adding-2-new-characters
Welp. Vergebens been right all this time. so Isabelle and Steve are basically guarantees at this point. I know Steve is a bit controversial, but what are your thoughts? I Don't play too much Minecraft, only occasionally, But I'm actually pretty excited to see Steve, and i Can't wait to see his moveset.

(Shocked i actually predicted Steve)
Let's not pay too much credence to information in an article trying to interpret things from a guy who gets all of his information from people who may or may not be people who actually have information from overhearing someone who might have been a primary or secondary source.

This is like... sixthhand information or something ridiculous like that haha
 

Icedragonadam

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https://www.inverse.com/article/48024-smash-bros-ultimate-roster-still-adding-2-new-characters
Welp. Vergebens been right all this time. so Isabelle and Steve are basically guarantees at this point. I know Steve is a bit controversial, but what are your thoughts? I Don't play too much Minecraft, only occasionally, But I'm actually pretty excited to see Steve, and i Can't wait to see his moveset.

(Shocked i actually predicted Steve)
Vergeben didn't say that Steve would be a newcomer just that there would be Minecraft content in it. And based on Shovel Knight being an AT, it's likely he'll just be an AT as well.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Vergeben said that Minecraft was represented as an either assist trophy or Stage, not character.
Verge said there was mine craft stuff in.

He never once clarified what it was.
 

Morbi

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Since I saw this being mentoined earlier.. What about the chances of a Monster Hunter as a fighter? I personally think that Rathalos as a boss and Assist Trophy already covers the most "important" things of Monster Hunter, the games being far more centralised about the monsters than the Hunters themselves. As well as the kitty helpers. Both the kitty helpers and Rathalos seem to appear in cross-overs and spin-offs more than the actual Monster Hunter. And I can't picture them going for ONE weaponstyle to represent the whole franchise.

I wouldn't be against it, had tons of fun with Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii. But I think I prefer having the Monsters from it appearing as bosses and the like. Rathian could and should also appear for example, and be a sort of double boss battle like some of the missions in Monster Hunter. As for other potential Monsters I'd like to see appear.. I'd like to fight the Lagiacrus in Ultimate.
If there was a Monster Hunter fighter, we would have seen it before Rathalos. That is all I know.
 

Arcanir

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We're one fighter away from a full 8-player Fire Emblem fight!

We can already do a full 8-player third party match and then some (:ultbayonetta::ultcloud::ultmegaman::ultpacman::ultryu::ultsonic::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultsnake:) so why not Fire Emblem?
To be honest, after the Black Knight discussion I'd definitely be on board with him. He'd make sense as an echo and he is one of the most feasible villains you can add from the franchise thanks to his high popularity, which would make him stand out from the others even if he's an echo. Plus getting him in would mean getting his great voice acting, and that alone is worth the inclusion.

Lyn would be great as well, but... Yeah...
 

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Verge said there was mine craft stuff in.

He never once clarified what it was.
Vergeben didn't say that Steve would be a newcomer just that there would be Minecraft content in it. And based on Shovel Knight being an AT, it's likely he'll just be an AT as well.
Let's not pay too much credence to information in an article trying to interpret things from a guy who gets all of his information from people who may or may not be people who actually have information from overhearing someone who might have been a primary or secondary source.

This is like... sixthhand information or something ridiculous like that haha
Vergeben said that Minecraft was represented as an either assist trophy or Stage, not character.
Verg never said Minecraft would get a charcter representation. Honestly i have a feeling it won't be a charcter but a stage or assist trophy
He said that Minecraft would be getting some content. He never specified what that content was.
Oops my bad. hehe.
By the way ToasterBrains, I know it's not a garuntee, just saying it's very likely
 
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