Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Diddy Kong]

Why doesn't he just weird a regular sized sword then? It'd be easier to use

Not enough anime-factor.

For him to function well in Smash, his sword would probably need a giant stale box which is like a insta-nerf to his whole concept in order to not break the game.

Cloud already broke Smash 4 badly enough as is. Glad he's been reported to have nerfed honestly.

 

[Johnknight1]

To me comparing new moveset newcomers to clones/echo fighters is weird, as is comparing Nintendo-owned characters to 3rd party characters.

IMO it is best to separate them into 4 different categories.

 

[Wyoming]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

1. Isabelle (unseen, new AC AT, easy echo particularly since key differences are more flexible. 95%)
2. Dixie Kong (as above, albeit her absence isn't as mysterious as Isabelle's due to no prior role. 70%)
3. Shadow (yeah I hate to admit it but I could see it. I am now 60/40 towards character v AT)
4. Isaac (one of the older big names yet to come. I can see it. 50%)
5. Bandana Waddle Dee (assuming he got the bulk of the Kirby support that's a pretty good base. Problem might be his moveset is AT-esque. 50%)
6. Skull Kid (I find the Moon AT and his current absence notable, but not convinced just yet. 50%)
7. Paper Mario (decent support base, and three Links makes any argument against him null. 40%)
8. Elma (not sure how she could have done via a ballot but her biggest competition was probably Fiora who was disconfirmed. It would be odd to exclude a Xenoblade character but I can kind of see it happen too. 40%)
9. Geno (Like Isaac, but faces the obstacle of Square being butts. 25%)
10. Struggling for a 10th. I'll go Ken because it makes sense but Capcom aren't really putting him in most titles. 25%.

 

[dezeray112]

I honestly don't think Simon will be the only one third-party newcomer we'll be getting in Ultimate, i expect at least one or two more, maybe as DLC, and i goddamn hope this doesn't leak this time.

I generally predict that like you stated, there will possibly be more third party characters coming through as DLC. Although I shouldn't rule out the possibility of them being in the base (in which I expect a few more third party characters) which can still happen.

 

[KMDP]

Not enough anime-factor.

For him to function well in Smash, his sword would probably need a giant stale box which is like a insta-nerf to his whole concept in order to not break the game.

Cloud already broke Smash 4 badly enough as is. Glad he's been reported to have nerfed honestly.

In Dissidia, Sephiroth's attacks have a long execution time. This would probably be the balancing factor, if you miss, you're going to be punished hard.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

1. Dixie Kong
2. Impa
3. Isaac

Taking a moment to realise and appricaite that all my most wanted are currently also QUITE DAMN LIKELY <3

4. New Pokemon
5. Geno
6. Elma
7. Rayman
8. Tails (no Shadow har har har)
9. Skull Kid
10. Bandana Dee

 

[Johnknight1]

Cloud already broke Smash 4 badly enough as is. Glad he's been reported to have nerfed honestly.

Cloud is only broken in teams in Smash 4 ATM. In singles he's reasonably well balanced and not even a Top 5 character in the game. Cloud has steadily slipped in the tier list since the last balance patch, and is probably going to fall quite a bit further as more tech for characters like Peach, Marth, Lucina and Corrin are discovered, used, applied and mastered (some of the Peach tech in Smash 4 is insane).

The nerfs/changes made Cloud go from a nuisance to very reasonable but still good in Smash Ultimate though. I don't think he's going to be damning in doubles/free for alls/triples/quadruples anymore.

 

[Freduardo]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

Most likely?

1) Isabelle
2) Shadow
3) Dixie Kong
4) Bandana Dee
5) Skull Kid
6) Akuma or Ken
7) Gen 7 or Gen 8 pokemon
8) ...Yet another Fire Emblem character
9) Isaac
10) If we’ve not seen Saki’s assist trophy: Saki
If we have seen it: Toadette

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If you only had to pick one of Ken or Chun Li, who would you prefer?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

1. Isabelle (ε... maybe?)
2. Non-specific Gen 7 Pokémon
3. Shadow (ε)
4. Skull Kid
5. Bandana Dee
6. Geno
7. Ken (ε)
8. Impa (ε)
9. Chorus Men
10. Dixie Kong (ε-ish)

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Chun Li would be a different fighter but Ken is the more likely one.

 

[Noipoi]

If you only had to pick one of Ken or Chun Li, who would you prefer?

Chun Li hands down. Three reasons.
1. We could use more girl characters.
2. She's a QT 3.14
3. I want her recovery to be that helicopter leg kick.

 

[Ulk]

I'm a little conflicted about the supposed Isaac, Skull Kid and Karate Joe teasers. I find the latter two actually quite ridiculous and think they are just a coincidence. Well, the Karate Joe MIGHT have just been a cute reference.

The Golden Sun image... that was a bit more obvious. I personally also recognized the positioning of Link and the positioning of the screen as a Golden Sun style battle instantly. I still believe this means nothing and I'm positive this was not meant to tease the inclusion of a Golden Sun rep. However, I can absolutely imagine this was a reference done on purpose.

 

[Johnknight1]

In Dissidia, Sephiroth's attacks have a long execution time. This would probably be the balancing factor, if you miss, you're going to be punished hard.

Very much this.

Generally this is what we would get with Sephiroth. It would be longer attacks with a reasonable amount of startup frames than normal and a few more cooldown frames than normal (the latter especially on stronger attacks).

Simon and Richter Belmont has something similar with their Whip range, and Corrin sort of has a system like that with that dragon spear.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If you only had to pick one of Ken or Chun Li, who would you prefer?

Chunners. Ken is the number 2 sure, but he's similar to Ryu and if I got to choose I'd pick the lady who's not similar to anyone in Smash

 

[Nethermoosen]

Ganondorf might very well have had his own ambitions at first, gaining that Triforce. But the force of Demise, the ancient curse, eventually lead him into gaining it. Kind of 'selling your soul to the devil' sort of deal, but intended to be his destiny since birth. That's what am making out of the story though. Ganondorf definitely needs a new role in a Zelda game however. Hyrule Warriors made it painfully obvious how missed he is. About time for Nintendo to explain where Ganondorf lost the will to reincarnate and assume his corrupted Calamity form.

Well, I’m remember there was something that mentioned the triforce is what keeps him alive though the ages where he’s relevant.

But hey, head canon is something we all do to cope with writing we don’t vibe with. See, if it were detailed that he made a deal with a demonic being somehow, and it just happened to be Demise, that would make it more interesting to me. Because then, that means Demise has to work his madness through people who simply accept his powers through dark deals. He’d go from some guy you see once, to this thing who pulls strings from the background. That’s writing I can get into.

But as it is, Zelda doesn’t hold the same grit it used to. I always appreciate A Link to the Past over others, because the atmosphere actually felt somewhat grim and dangerous. Ocarina of Time had some of the same since 7 years later Hyrule was under malicious rule and it was decaying. Even the folks in Hyrule’s town seemed to have become Zombies while Link slept.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Cloud is only broken in teams in Smash 4 ATM. In singles he's reasonably well balanced and not even a Top 5 character in the game. Cloud has steadily slipped in the tier list since the last balance patch, and is probably going to fall quite a bit further as more tech for characters like Peach, Marth, Lucina and Corrin are discovered, used, applied and mastered (some of the Peach tech in Smash 4 is insane).

The nerfs/changes made Cloud go from a nuisance to very reasonable but still good in Smash Ultimate though. I don't think he's going to be damning in doubles/free for alls/triples/quadruples anymore.

Yes that's true but he really dominates teams badly, and is ridiculously easy to pick up and play.

Besides am still salty that he got the sword projectile that Ike was denied.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Did you click on the imgur link in the post?

I clicked your link all it brought me to a "not found" page

 

[Shroob]

Been keeping a notepad doc of characters and their probabilities at a given moment in my estimation (as on cartridge OR DLC characters). I had separated 3rd party characters from Nintendo-owned characters.

Recently I decided to divide Echo Fighters/clones from the rest, and again, they are split between 3rd party and Nintendo-owned characters.

Anyways, here's my lists for fun in order from most likely to least likely (in my estimation). If I am missing any character, please let me know (note: had DK Jr, Funky Kong [don't see him as a clone TBH] and Blood Falcon and a few others but ruled them out)

- Probability of all "Relevant" Nintendo Owned Echo Fighter Potential Newcomers -
1. Impa (Skyward Sword design): Sheik clone
2. Samurai Goroh: Captain Falcon clone with Ganondorf's Smash attacks
3. Louie: Olimar clone (maybe the Purple/white Pikmin swapped out for new Pikmin?)
4. The Black Knight: Ike clone (maybe with borrowed moves from Ganondorf)
6. Black Shadow (F-Zero): Captain Falcon clone

- Probability of all "Relevant" non-Nintendo Owned Echo Fighter Potential Newcomers -
1. Sonic Echo: Shadow the Hedgehog > Metal Sonic
1. Ryu Echo: Ken > Akuma
3. Solid Snake Echo: Raiden > Big Boss (aka Naked Snake)
4. Mega Man Echo: Mega Man X > Proto Man
5. Ms. Pac-Man (Pac-Man Echo)
6. Cloud Strife Echo (Square Enix): Sephiroth (likely with moves borrowed from other characters) > Zack
7. Trevor Belmont (Simon/Richter Belmont Echo) (probably actually an alt costume if this ever happens but it's unlikely anyways so meh)
8. Jeanne (Bayonetta Echo)

Again any thoughts are nice. And again, the bottom of the list is going to feature a bit more... "out there" ideas in regards to this. So don't worry about them being crazy/wild too much.

Hate to burst your bubble but Goroh's an AT.

 

[Nethermoosen]

If you only had to pick one of Ken or Chun Li, who would you prefer?

Short Answer? Ken
Long Answer? Ken with his moveset from MvC2

 

[Iridium]

Yes that's true but he really dominates teams badly, and is ridiculously easy to pick up and play.

Besides am still salty that he got the sword projectile that Ike was denied.

Well, Roy would like his sword beams too.

 

[Deleted member]

Divide a big job up and it becomes easier. Seems to apply to subjugation too.

Though talking of Evil, who is the most tragic villain in Smash?

Dracula who lost two wives?
Ganondorf who's wishes of a better life were corrupted by power?
Bowser who can't catch a break?

Ridley because he lost his parents: Slogra and Gaibon, at the hands of Simon Belmont.

It's canon now.

BTW, the only female newcomer i want is Dixie Kong, i couldn't care less about anyone else honestly (mostly because i haven' even played their games and don't know anything about theme)

Also im glad people got the Super Castlevania IV reference regarding Simon's alt.

 

[Wyoming]

If you only had to pick one of Ken or Chun Li, who would you prefer?

Sakura.

But to answer Chun-Li. If Street Fighter were asked about a second newcomer (unique or clone) it should be her.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Well, Duck Hunt was the best reveal only if you really wanted to beat up "that damn dog".

Or, I guess, if you wanted to use that dog to beat up other people and laugh at them.

I like dogs, so I’d never want to beat him up...though people did enjoy shooting him back in the day (and Peepers would just get pissed off and leave after awhile)

 

[Shroob]

So, does everyone just kinda accept "Shadow and Isabelle are in" at this point?

They pretty much seem like the 2 most obvious Echos.

 

[Iridium]

Ridley because he lost his parents: Slogra and Gaibon, at the hands of Simon Belmont.

It's canon now.

BTW, the only female newcomer i want is Dixie Kong, i couldn't careless about anyone else honestly (mostly because i haven' even played their games and don't know anything about theme)

Also im glad people got the Super Castlevania IV reference regarding Simon's alt.

That's pretty cool. Should I feel bad for Ridley though?

I clicked your link all it brought me to a "not found" page

Okay, I'll check it and tell you if I can find the correct link.

Edit: I accidentally double posted. Can someone fix this, please?

 

[Johnknight1]

Yes that's true but he really dominates teams badly, and is ridiculously easy to pick up and play.

Besides am still salty that he got the sword projectile that Ike was denied.

I don't think Ike needs a projectile, just a way to close the gap faster.

Cloud was only oppressive in Doubles because of his Burst Limit moves being OP. Now that they are less powerful and his moveset is more "normalized" it's not as bad. Plus the doubles changes are super good and will help prevent such polarizing characters from running over doubles this game as an added safety net.

So we can get crazy doubles that are like a fresh and different game just like Melee in Smash Ultimate, which is going to be great! And the meta is going to be INSANE!!!!

My brother is probably going to play this game competitively just to do doubles with me (I'm doing singles/doubles). Gonna be so fun TBH. We performed p well in Melee, Smash 4 and especially Project M doubles. Gonna be neat with the gameplay system change in Ultimate too!

 

[Zeox]

Anyone thinks that the SNES Mini could be related to the newcomers we are getting?

I mean, right now, 4 of these games can be linked to 4 newcomers, these being:

Super Castlevania IV (Simon), Donkey Kong Country (K. Rool), Super Metroid (Game that made Ridley popular), Castlevania Dracula X (Richter).

So, every real newcomer besides Splatoon have a game in this console, including one echo.
(And don't forget, this console have Super Mario RPG... Geno could be next...)

 

[BluePikmin11]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

1. Isabelle
2. Shadow
3. Chorus Kids
4. Skull Kid
5. Geno
6. Lycanroc/Generation 7 newcomer
7. Leon Kennedy/Jill Valentine
8. Elma
9. Dixie Kong
10. Heihachi

This is who I personally believe to be the most likely as of now. I am very confident about the top 8, but less so with Dixie Kong and below.

 

[Deleted member]

So, does everyone just kinda accept "Shadow and Isabelle are in" at this point?

They pretty much seem like the 2 most obvious Echos.

If there's any character that i could give a high score regarding chances, it would be Shadow and ONLY Shadow. Everything is in his favor right now.

As for Isabelle...........eh, i do believe Vergeben but i don't keep track of him after Simon got confirmed.

 

[Noipoi]

That's pretty cool. Should I feel bad for Ridley though?

Ridley just wanted to brutally murder countless people.




Is that so wrong?

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, does everyone just kinda accept "Shadow and Isabelle are in" at this point?

They pretty much seem like the 2 most obvious Echos.

No. I won't accept them. Rather have Tails instead of Shadow anyway.

I still say Dixie and Impa are the most likely Echoes. And also the best choices in general.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Ah yes



Splendid

 

[Johnknight1]

So, does everyone just kinda accept "Shadow and Isabelle are in" at this point?

They pretty much seem like the 2 most obvious Echos.

I don't see Isabelle being an Echo Fighter. I see her fighting less directly than the Villager and having a more "cutesy" moveset.

Also, you are right about Shadow being #1, but you forgot Ken. Ken is the ORIGINAL Echo Fighter in fighting games, and would just be a hand-in-glove fit in Smash Bros.

I don't think Impa is far behind either in terms of likelihood. (Gotta Diddy Kong for that LMAO)

Edit: For reference, I can't see Dixie Kong as an Echo Fighter. She's too different with the use of her hair as a recovery tool + as a primary means of attacking. I don't see Sakurai just shoehorning that in for Dixie, because it just doesn't fit.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

This needs to be admired some more...anywhomst’ve’d

No. I won't accept them. Rather have Tails instead of Shadow anyway.

I still say Dixie and Impa are the most likely Echoes. And also the best choices in general.

You will take Shadow and love him

 

[T-Hell]

I'm a little conflicted about the supposed Isaac, Skull Kid and Karate Joe teasers. I find the latter two actually quite ridiculous and think they are just a coincidence. Well, the Karate Joe MIGHT have just been a cute reference.

The Golden Sun image... that was a bit more obvious. I personally also recognized the positioning of Link and the positioning of the screen as a Golden Sun style battle instantly. I still believe this means nothing and I'm positive this was not meant to tease the inclusion of a Golden Sun rep. However, I can absolutely imagine this was a reference done on purpose.

But then, WHY would he make the reference on purpose. I don't think his thinking was "they'll know I remember that franchise and get away with it" because that's honestly pointless. If this was a reference done on purpose, I can't help but think there's something else to it.

 

[Wyoming]

Anyone thinks that the SNES Mini could be related to the newcomers we are getting?

I mean, right now, 4 of these games can be linked to 4 newcomers, these being:

Super Castlevania IV (Simon), Donkey Kong Country (K. Rool), Super Metroid (Game that made Ridley popular), Castlevania Dracula X (Richter).

So, every real newcomer besides Splatoon have a game in this console, including one echo.
(And don't forget, this console have Super Mario RPG... Geno could be next...)

Nah. It is a coincidence. It is more so due to the fact the SNES was Nintendo's peak for the hardcore gamer.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ridley just wanted to brutally murder countless people.




Is that so wrong?

#RidleyDidNothingWrong

I don't see Isabelle being an Echo Fighter. I see her fighting less directly than the Villager and having a more "cutesy" moveset.

Also, you are right about Shadow being #1, but you forgot Ken. Ken is the ORIGINAL Echo Fighter in fighting games, and would just be a hand-in-glove fit in Smash Bros.

I don't think Impa is far behind either in terms of likelihood. (Gotta Diddy Kong for that LMAO)

Edit: For reference, I can't see Dixie Kong as an Echo Fighter. She's too different with the use of her hair as a recovery tool + as a primary means of attacking. I don't see Sakurai just shoehorning that in for Dixie, because it just doesn't fit.

I thought that about Isabelle too at first, but didn’t Verg confirm that his source said she was an echo...?

 

[Zeox]

Divide a big job up and it becomes easier. Seems to apply to subjugation too.

Though talking of Evil, who is the most tragic villain in Smash?

Dracula who lost two wives?
Ganondorf who's wishes of a better life were corrupted by power?
Bowser who can't catch a break?

If you count bosses like Dracula and not playable characters, it would be Porky, his mom and dad abuse him, corrupted by giygas, his only friend Ness left him, had to run away to another dimension and leave his young brother, became immortal and saw everyone die, never forgot Ness, he ended up trapped forever in an indestructible ball never able to escape and never able to die, creator of mother confirmed that billions of years will pass yet Porky will still be alive, trapped in that ball, and he will never leave or die.

 

[SonicMario]

So, does everyone just kinda accept "Shadow and Isabelle are in" at this point?

They pretty much seem like the 2 most obvious Echos.

I still feel saying any character is obvious is dangerous even for some characters that seem to have everything pointing right to them.

Those two are definitely some of the likeliest echos. But no one should take it for granted, they could still be Assist Trophies again.

I may have been repeating this too much lately in my recent posts, but Tails is still a potential character being sort of overlooked for Sonic's echo after Chrom changed the game for echoes. Again, still think Shadow's more likely at the moment. But there's reasons it could be Tails too.