Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Metal Shop X]

Seeing so many peoples thinking that BK might have a chance make me a very happy person.

Btw, do you think Gooey could function as a Echo of Kirby? After all, he could copy enemy in Dreamland 3, the only thing that might cause problem would be that:

1: He doesn't have feet
2: beside if they reuse Kirby hat, that could put even more work for the Smash Team, which would go against the point of Echo Fighter

Tell me if I'm wrong or not, could be interesting in either case.

 

[KMDP]

Bring back the "I coveted that win" Ganondorf, please.

Interesting typo.

Want that to be one of Ganondorf's win quotes.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/96v20s/album_compiling_official_depictions_of_smash/

This is for everyone who I didn't tag earlier about this. Are you ready for nightmare fuel round 2? This should really get to some of you all.

I don't see anything in there

 

[Wyoming]

This five day drought is too much. Need another Direct, Sakurai!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm getting more convinced that Skull Kid will make it in tbh. I also remembered people were absolutely livid when Lana got a Skull Kid reference costume as DLC yet there was no playable Skull Kid in sight

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Divide a big job up and it becomes easier. Seems to apply to subjugation too.

Though talking of Evil, who is the most tragic villain in Smash?

Dracula who lost two wives?
Ganondorf who's wishes of a better life were corrupted by power?
Bowser who can't catch a break?

King Dedede who just wants to “Clobber that Der Kirbey!!”

 

[Idon]

Interesting typo.

Want that to be one of Ganondorf's win quotes.

The reason he's so evil is that Ganondorf was really salty Link beat him at smash bros that one time.

 

[Deleted member]

I can’t be sure anymore, last time a good chunk of us lowballed we got much more than most anticipated.

LOL, yeah, pretty much. I remember how I went around saying "There's no way there's more than like, 3 or so characters left. Sakurai said not to expect too much!" And then we got 5 in the last Direct with more confirmed on the way. It's insane, ha ha.

 

[Deleted member]

This five day drought is too much. Need another Direct, Sakurai!

I need to know if the Winnie the Pooh Bear Mii costume has been promoted to playable!

 

[Idon]

LOL, yeah, pretty much. I remember how I went around saying "There's no way there's more than like, 3 or so characters left. Sakurai said not to expect too much!" And then we got 5 in the last Direct with more confirmed on the way. It's insane, ha ha.

Well to be fair, only 2 were unique. Many people predicted further echoes.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I'm the kind of person who isn't overly concerned with the Demise thing, but when you put it like that I can definitely see the problem.

It just casts a lazy story over the whole thing. It’s better for a person to be considered an incarnation of evil through his own actions, rather than because an old evil simply made it so.

To me, Ganondorf was an unfortunate birth, he learned his evils through life. He came upon the triforce and used the piece he was given for his own vices. His possession of it gave him immortality. Which is why Ganon actually dies in Wind Waker. At least, that’s what it seemed to imply. This made him more meaningful as a villain, because it was more relatable. In A Link to the Past, he was just the leader of some thieves who wanted more. Came upon the triforce and then boom! He became King of Evil. It made the Dark World, which turned you into your deepest reflection. His was a Pig, a symbol of Avarice and Gluttony. Because he just wanted things for himself.

Then Skyward sword says...naw, it’s really just this ancient thing that was beaten by Link and Zelda. It made him mad and now he’s throwing an eternal hissy fit.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think the most devastating disconfirmation so far was Ashley, she had a lot going for her and there was a lot of hype for her inclusion, only for her to be unofficially shown off at the Direct and not even be mentioned by name...

It was a devastating blow towards her fanbase as well due to drama surrounding her inclusion.

If Ashley's disconfirmation means anything in regards to speculation, it is that you cannot just think of the factors "relevance", "fan popularity", and "unique moveset potential" and simply make a conclusion that a newcomer is likely and have high expectations because of it. Even in the midst of perfect timing and promotion for a game like WarioWare Gold and giant number of supporters getting increasingly confident of her inclusion, you still have to think about other things like the degree of promotion, the prominence of the character's role in the series, and consider how late of a game Gold is to actually factor into her inclusion (Even if Gold game development and planning began around the time of Ultimate's project plan, if 4chan leaks are any indication.)

Personally, I thought the lack of notable, frequent Ashley promotion in Japan after 2015 made me suspicious that Nintendo was not confident in promoting her as much Rosalina and Isabellle in the long term. Plus, being that the latest WW game that Sakurai would likely take note of when considering Ashley, Game and Wario, did not give the witch a notable role that towered over other WW characters.

When speculating unique newcomers, it is very important consider more factors than just the simple positives.

 

[KMDP]

Speaking of more girls, I was thinking about how Tifa might not be that hard (relatively speaking) to make... if you do a lot of development cheating.

You can pull stuff from, say, Zero Suit Samus and Little Mac to get started. Actually, it reminds me of the recent Bayo controversy.

The reason he's so evil is that Ganondorf was really salty Link beat him at smash bros that one time.

"In the Desert, Salt is a way of life."

CURSE YOU! LINK! CURSE YOU! SMASH BROS.!

 

[Smashiny]

Chroms gameplay trailer gave some steam to my little pet theory that mega Charizard X could work as a Charizard echo with his original rock smash move

Would that make sense though? I know Sakurai isn't as strict with the echo-fighters, but it wouldn't really be in character that a charizard would stay in his Charizard X form all the time? E.g. when revived in the pokemon games, he would return to his original state, just like a charizard entering a smash stage after a ko would be the normal charizard again.

 

[Johnknight1]

Been keeping a notepad doc of characters and their probabilities at a given moment in my estimation (as on cartridge OR DLC characters). I had separated 3rd party characters from Nintendo-owned characters.

Recently I decided to divide Echo Fighters/clones from the rest, and again, they are split between 3rd party and Nintendo-owned characters.

Anyways, here's my lists for fun in order from most likely to least likely (in my estimation). If I am missing any character, please let me know (note: had DK Jr, Funky Kong [don't see him as a clone TBH] and Blood Falcon and a few others but ruled them out)

- Probability of all "Relevant" Nintendo Owned Echo Fighter Potential Newcomers -
1. Impa (Skyward Sword design): Sheik clone
2. Samurai Goroh: Captain Falcon clone with Ganondorf's Smash attacks
3. Louie: Olimar clone (maybe the Purple/white Pikmin swapped out for new Pikmin?)
4. The Black Knight: Ike clone (maybe with borrowed moves from Ganondorf)
6. Black Shadow (F-Zero): Captain Falcon clone

- Probability of all "Relevant" non-Nintendo Owned Echo Fighter Potential Newcomers -
1. Sonic Echo: Shadow the Hedgehog > Metal Sonic
1. Ryu Echo: Ken > Akuma
3. Solid Snake Echo: Raiden > Big Boss (aka Naked Snake)
4. Mega Man Echo: Mega Man X > Proto Man
5. Ms. Pac-Man (Pac-Man Echo)
6. Cloud Strife Echo (Square Enix): Sephiroth (likely with moves borrowed from other characters) > Zack
7. Trevor Belmont (Simon/Richter Belmont Echo) (probably actually an alt costume if this ever happens but it's unlikely anyways so meh)
8. Jeanne (Bayonetta Echo)

Again any thoughts are nice. And again, the bottom of the list is going to feature a bit more... "out there" ideas in regards to this. So don't worry about them being crazy/wild too much.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

I'm getting more convinced that Skull Kid will make it in tbh. I also remembered people were absolutely livid when Lana got a Skull Kid reference costume as DLC yet there was no playable Skull Kid in sight

Majora's Mask in general is a cult classic. Like first it was the black sheep of the franchise, then since 2010 or so it became hailed as one of the best(some people even claimed it as the best Zelda game)

 

[Noipoi]

King Dedede who just wants to “Clobber that Der Kirbey!!”

He better get it with a money back guarantee.

 

[Nameless Kot]

After some "digging," the closest thing I could find is that it's similar to a menu option from Meteos, except blue. Meteos is a game made by Sakurai after all.

ps lmao at my search bar and my evolving search

Mmm interesting, although I think it is just a generic "spirit" symbol.
If it has a relation though then the "leak" with the Meteos fighter gains credibility. Did someone already debunked that leak?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I'm getting more convinced that Skull Kid will make it in tbh. I also remembered people were absolutely livid when Lana got a Skull Kid reference costume as DLC yet there was no playable Skull Kid in sight

I’ll probably get some heat for this, but I’d like Lana (I know she has no chance) but her magic cubes and book stuff was super cool.

Also as the Sailor Moon fan I am, I liked having a magicial girl in Zelda lmao.

 

[sdpdude9]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

 

[T-Hell]

You guys want more girls huh? Inb4 next Smash Direct is female dedicated and reveals Elma, Isabelle, Dixie, Impa, Hilda and Medusa.

 

[Idon]

Been keeping a notepad doc of characters and their probabilities at a given moment in my estimation (as on cartridge OR DLC characters). I had separated 3rd party characters from Nintendo-owned characters.

Recently I decided to divide Echo Fighters/clones from the rest, and again, they are split between 3rd party and Nintendo-owned characters.

Anyways, here's my lists for fun in order from most likely to least likely (in my estimation). If I am missing any character, please let me know (note: had DK Jr, Funky Kong [don't see him as a clone TBH] and Blood Falcon and a few others but ruled them out)

- Probability of all "Relevant" Nintendo Owned Echo Fighter Potential Newcomers -
1. Impa (Skyward Sword design): Sheik clone
2. Samurai Goroh: Captain Falcon clone with Ganondorf's Smash attacks
3. Louie: Olimar clone (maybe the Purple/white Pikmin swapped out for new Pikmin?)
4. The Black Knight: Ike clone (maybe with borrowed moves from Ganondorf)
6. Black Shadow (F-Zero): Captain Falcon clone

- Probability of all "Relevant" non-Nintendo Owned Echo Fighter Potential Newcomers -
1. Sonic Echo: Shadow the Hedgehog > Metal Sonic
1. Ryu Echo: Ken > Akuma
3. Solid Snake Echo: Raiden > Big Boss (aka Naked Snake)
4. Mega Man Echo: Mega Man X > Proto Man
5. Ms. Pac-Man (Pac-Man Echo)
6. Cloud Strife Echo (Square Enix): Sephiroth (likely with moves borrowed from other characters) > Zack
7. Trevor Belmont (Simon/Richter Belmont Echo) (probably actually an alt costume if this ever happens but it's unlikely anyways so meh)
8. Jeanne (Bayonetta Echo)

Again any thoughts are nice. And again, the bottom of the list is going to feature a bit more... "out there" ideas in regards to this.

I'm gonna say right now, Sephiroth is not anywhere near similar enough to Cloud to even be remotely close to an echo.

 

[Deleted member]

I expect Isabelle to either be revealed or deconfirmed next direct, one way or another.

 

[Remmy-ro]

Would that make sense though? I know Sakurai isn't as strict with the echo-fighters, but it wouldn't really be in character that a charizard would stay in his Charizard X form all the time? E.g. when revived in the pokemon games, he would return to his original state, just like a charizard entering a smash stage after a ko would be the normal charizard again.

Technically the only requirement for mega evolution is the stones and a trainer with a strong bond. I think it's relatively easy to suspend disbelief that losing a stock=\= losing a battle and keep him in mega form. And if we really want to go further we could make it a Pokemon trainer echo who just uses mega Charizard to keep the lore intact

 

[Mutsukki]

Plus, being that the latest WW game that Sakurai would likely take note of when considering Ashley, Game and Wario, did not give the witch a notable role that towered over other WW characters.

I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post, but this is quite untrue. Game and Wario has a mode that's just called "Ashley" where you play as her in a shmup. No other character has that, Jimmy's mode just called "Ski", 9-Volt's just "Gamer" even though they're always on screen. Ashley definitely has relevance in her own series, but I feel like a good moveset for her was her biggest setback. That and there are definitely more proeminent and better requested characters in front of her on the list.

 

[Noipoi]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

1. Geno
2. Incineroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
3. Shadow
4. Isabelle
5. Ken
6. Isaac
7. Skull Kid
8. Elma
9. Bandanna Dee
10. Banjo Kazooie
Our lists are pretty similar .

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You guys want more girls huh? Inb4 next Smash Direct is female dedicated and reveals Elma, Isabelle, Dixie, Impa, Hilda and Medusa.

To be honest, I've seen more people concerned about the amount of villains than female characters ever since Smash 4 added quiet a number of the latter.

 

[KMDP]

I'm gonna say right now, Sephiroth is not anywhere near similar enough to Cloud to even be remotely close to an echo.

People say Sephiroth won't get in because his attack range would be too ridiculous, but Sephiroth's sword swings are actually deceptively shallow, considering how long the sword is (he swings the sword close to his body, is what I'm saying).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

1. Isaac
2. Geno
3. Elma
4. Bandana Waddle Dee
5. Heihachi
6. Lloyd Irving
7. Chorus Kids
8. Incineroar
9. Third Capcom rep that likely isn’t Monster Hunter (unpopular opinion but showing a stage and AT/boss before a playable character doesn’t bode well for a playable character from the particular series)
10. Shadow (Sonic echo)

Not listed due to possibly being DLC: Dixie (Diddy echo), ARMS character, Rex & Pyra, Octoling (Inkling echo)

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Incineroar
2. Decidueye
3. Bandana Dee
4. Octoling [Echo Fighter]
5. Isaac
6. Dixie Kong [Echo Fighter]
7. Impa [Echo Fighter]
8. Banjo & Kazooie
9. Geno
10. Ken [Echo Fighter]

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Does anyone remember when Sakurai posted a Miiverse picture of Palutena's statue and people debated whether or not Sakurai was teasing fans?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

People say Sephiroth won't get in because his attack range would be too ridiculous, but Sephiroth's sword swings are actually deceptively shallow, considering how long the sword is (he swings the sword close to his body, is what I'm saying).

Why doesn't he just weird a regular sized sword then? It'd be easier to use

 

[Nethermoosen]

People say Sephiroth won't get in because his attack range would be too ridiculous, but Sephiroth's sword swings are actually deceptively shallow, considering how long the sword is (he swings the sword close to his body, is what I'm saying).

And then Simon and Richter

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know about Skull Kid, personally. While it's something I would really, REALLY want, I don't think it's quite that likely he'll show up. A lot of that comes from me being very pessimistic about franchises like Kirby and Zelda getting anything new, though, so I could very well just be being overly negative and end up being wrong. Gosh, I hope I'm wrong and we get Bandana Dee and Skull Kid; that would pretty much make this game the perfect Smash for me, even if Isabelle and Octolings don't happen.

 

[Iridium]

I don't see anything in there

Did you click on the imgur link in the post?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post, but this is quite untrue. Game and Wario has a mode that's just called "Ashley" where you play as her in a shmup. No other character has that, Jimmy's mode just called "Ski", 9-Volt's just "Gamer" even though they're always on screen. Ashley definitely has relevance in her own series, but I feel like a good moveset for her was her biggest setback. That and there are definitely more proeminent and better requested characters in front of her on the list.

Eh, but even then, Gamer towered in popularity out of all modes, and was even made into a stage in Smash Wii U.

I kind of agree more prominent characters might have been something against her inclusion, but I do not think crafting a moveset would be a problem. Sakurai could easily make a moveset based on the moves she can do as an Assist Trophy.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm gonna say right now, Sephiroth is not anywhere near similar enough to Cloud to even be remotely close to an echo.

I think if we get him he will maybe be like a clone (as in similar animations/same general design philosophy) but with consideration to his range and a different style as a result. It's kind of hard to explain, but if you play Cloud thinking "could Sephiroth do this or something like this as a move and still come across like Sephiroth" and for the majority of his attacks the answer is yes.

Again that's a bottom of the list character, but like considering how freaking crazy everything in this game is... I'm just trying not to discount him.

He's there because I just get a feeling he's can happen because the reactions and hype from that would be actually absurd. I still can't get over Cloud nearly 3 years later. That and this game is just CRAZY!!!

Like a week ago Richter Belmont was never going to happen; Chrom was unlikely. We were getting Simon Belmont and maybe an Echo Fighter at best in the Direct plus a few new maps.

But here we are with Sakurai making it rain "impossible miracles" from the sky like rain drops in the Amazon.

 

[KMDP]

Why doesn't he just weird a regular sized sword then? It'd be easier to use

Cool factor, duh.

I imagine someone like Sephiroth, as cocky as he is, is quite the showman.

And then Simon and Richter

Yeah, that too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It just casts a lazy story over the whole thing. It’s better for a person to be considered an incarnation of evil through his own actions, rather than because an old evil simply made it so.

To me, Ganondorf was an unfortunate birth, he learned his evils through life. He came upon the triforce and used the piece he was given for his own vices. His possession of it gave him immortality. Which is why Ganon actually dies in Wind Waker. At least, that’s what it seemed to imply. This made him more meaningful as a villain, because it was more relatable. In A Link to the Past, he was just the leader of some thieves who wanted more. Came upon the triforce and then boom! He became King of Evil. It made the Dark World, which turned you into your deepest reflection. His was a Pig, a symbol of Avarice and Gluttony. Because he just wanted things for himself.

Then Skyward sword says...naw, it’s really just this ancient thing that was beaten by Link and Zelda. It made him mad and now he’s throwing an eternal hissy fit.

Ganondorf might very well have had his own ambitions at first, gaining that Triforce. But the force of Demise, the ancient curse, eventually lead him into gaining it. Kind of 'selling your soul to the devil' sort of deal, but intended to be his destiny since birth. That's what am making out of the story though. Ganondorf definitely needs a new role in a Zelda game however. Hyrule Warriors made it painfully obvious how missed he is. About time for Nintendo to explain where Ganondorf lost the will to reincarnate and assume his corrupted Calamity form.

 

[T-Hell]

Let me hear your top 10 most likely characters to join the battle. Not who you want, but who is most likely. In order!

1. Shadow
2. Isabelle
3. Inceniroar/ Gen 7 pokemon
4. Geno
5. Ken
6. Elma
7. Isaac
8. Spring Man
9. Skull Kid
10. Paper Mario

1. Geno
2. Bandana Dee
3. Shadow
4. Isabelle
5. Skull Kid
6. Isaac
7. Dixie
8. Alolan Pokemon
9. Elma
10. Paper Mario