Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NonSpecificGuy]

To move away from this discussion...

What would your reaction be if we got five more unique newcomers?

And these newcomers were...

Skull Kid
Elma
Bandana Waddle Dee
Geno
Isaac

Skull Kid - Yep, either him or Impa are the only Zelda characters I'd pick so. *thumbs up*
Elma - She's aight, I don't adore her as much as I do that game but I'll take any Xeno rep
Bandana Dee - Needed. It's about time Kirby fans got their bone
Geno - Hell yeah! I'll take Geno over any other Mario Newcomer anyday.
Isaac - The last BIG character I think could possibly happen. I think it is. And I'd be more than stoked for him. I ****ing love Golden Sun.

 

[Will]

I find it funny that Elma and/or Rex will be in the game (if it's not Elma, Rex is easy peasy DLC) but the Monado will still be the Xenoblade symbol.

 

[RandomAce]

You know what?...I wasted money on Mii Costumes too just so I’m not a hypocrite.

Here’s a game I have as well.
There’s three remaining unique newcomers you can pick, but under these conditions:

(New Nintendo series)
(Pre-existing Nintendo series)
(3rd Party)

Who do you pick for each one?

New Series: Isaac (Golden Sun)
Pre-Existing:

I swear, did you really had to this? AUGH! I can’t decide between Elma or Lycanroc!
3rd Party: Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

You have no idea how fast Xenoblade is becoming of a big hitter series. I'd say it could easily get a second, maybe even one rep for each game in the series so far if you wanted to show it that much.

I have never heard of Xenoblade being a big hitter. Is it just Nintendo Fans?? Certainly not on the same level as FF or Dragonquest and even Persona. Like I don't be getting recommendations by other RPG fans about Xenoblade.

 

[Idon]

I find it funny that Elma and/or Rex will be in the game (if it's not Elma, Rex is easy peasy DLC) but the Monado will still be the Xenoblade symbol.

To be fair, there's not much in the way of symbols that represent Xenoblade.

Perhaps the "X" but that's stretching it.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I find it funny that Elma and/or Rex will be in the game (if it's not Elma, Rex is easy peasy DLC) but the Monado will still be the Xenoblade symbol.

It's not different from having the Falchion as the Fire Emblem symbol, when it didn't even existed in Ike's, Roy's and Corrin's game.

 

[Dee Dude]

Random thought: If Geno gets in, I hope Mallow is incorporated into some of his moveset ala Toad/Phantom so he won’t be the only thing in SMRPG represented.

Or better yet, have both of them playable as a duo, not in the Ice Climbers fashion but in Duck Hunt fashion where two characters behave as one model instead.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

So Ken had a trophy and his theme in the previous installment of Smash Bros.

The only other Street Fighter trophy and theme in the game was Ryu.

How much do you think this helps Ken's chances of getting in Ultimate?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Random thought: If Geno gets in, I hope Mallow is incorporated into some of his moveset ala Toad/Phantom so he won’t be the only thing in SMRPG represented.

Or better yet, have both of them playable as a duo, not in the Ice Climbers fashion but in Duck Hunt fashion where two characters behave as one model instead.

I want them pokemon trainer style

 

[Shroob]

So Ken had a trophy and his theme in the previous installment of Smash Bros.

The only other Street Fighter trophy and theme in the game was Ryu.

Do you think this helps Ken's chances of getting in Ultimate?

As high as Shadow's imo.

Ken is the OG "Echo Fighter" of Fighting games, and all Sakurai would have to do is change the Ink effects to fire.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I want them pokemon trainer style

So, Zelda/Sheik pre-4? That'd be cool.

 

[Enchess]

I have never heard of Xenoblade being a big hitter. Is it just Nintendo Fans?? Certainly not on the same level as FF or Dragonquest and even Persona

Xenoblade was a critical darling (92 Metacritic), Xenoblade X was pretty much the big thing on Wii U being hyped continuously by Nintendo and releasing during a notable drought of heavy-hitters making it stand out (also had a solid 84 Metacritic).

By the time of Xenoblade 2, Nintendo had started treating it as one of their biggest franchises despite it being so new and more niche. XB2 seems like it may have slowed that momentum a lot (although still well-received with 83 Metacritic), but as long as XBX2 or XB3 are back in line, the series may well overtake FE in popularity in the next gen.

The series has a reputation already for consistent quality with vast worlds and unique lore that doesn't feel derivative of the Final Fantasy formula.

 

[HyruleHero]

Not sure if this has been talked about yet but using some maths and assuming that smashdown mode can be played with 2 players, 3 players and 4 players the total number of characters must have these numbers as facters. before King K. Rool was added the smashdown mode worked perfectly for 4 players and 2 players but not 3. including K. rool we now have 69 character (this is including echoes as well). for smashdown to work we would need either a total of 72 characters or 84 (assuming 3 players can play smashdown).

using this we can say that either 3 more players are getting in or 15. I find 3 unlikely as that would mean only like one more unique character whereas 15 could have 5 more unique characters and 10 more echoes.

if its 15 we will see a total of 23 new characters including echoes. this seems high considering what sakurai said however he may have just been refering to not to expect to many new unique characters.

 

[papagenos]

Random thought: If Geno gets in, I hope Mallow is incorporated into some of his moveset ala Toad/Phantom so he won’t be the only thing in SMRPG represented.

Or better yet, have both of them playable as a duo, not in the Ice Climbers fashion but in Duck Hunt fashion where two characters behave as one model instead.

Obviously getting Geno in is my top priority BUT I will admit if mallow got completely left out it would be really weird and wouldnt sit right with me. He should be either somehow in his moveset/final smash/victory pose/ or in as an assist trophy, luckily knowing Sakurai i cant imagine Geno in without doing at least ONE of those things.

 

[Dee Dude]

Crap...now I legitimately want a Geno/Mallow duo to happen for real, but it’s too late now and very unlikely.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

It is not an accurate interpretation of Xenoblade 2 to say the Monado is not in that game. Shulk is a DLC blade, Malos's weapon is just a differently colored Monado, and the game is a little too recent for me to want to just unmarked drop the entire plot but...

Spoiler

It's made quite clear that the Monado itself is basically just a blade weapon created from one of the Aegises who were just the three parts of that ancient computer. Shulk's Monado is fairly interpreted to be Alvis's blade weapon, and since blade weapons are really just a part of the blade, Alvis himself was basically the Monado incarnate which really makes a lot of sense in the context of XB1 (given their privileged position in the world creation event, Zanza and Meyneth may have similar capabilities to an Aegis independently). In that sense, with both Malos and Pyra/Mythra being Aegises and the central figures of Xenoblade 2's story, there are two Monados around which the plot revolves one of which is the game's co-star (Pyra/Mythra is as much the main character as Rex).

 

[Enchess]

Not sure if this has been talked about yet but using some maths and assuming that smashdown mode can be played with 2 players, 3 players and 4 players the total number of characters must have these numbers as facters. before King K. Rool was added the smashdown mode worked perfectly for 4 players and 2 players but not 3. including K. rool we now have 69 character (this is including echoes as well). for smashdown to work we would need either a total of 72 characters or 84 (assuming 3 players can play smashdown).

using this we can say that either 3 more players are getting in or 15. I find 3 unlikely as that would mean only like one more unique character whereas 15 could have 5 more unique characters and 10 more echoes.

if its 15 we will see a total of 23 new characters including echoes. this seems high considering what sakurai said however he may have just been refering to not to expect to many new unique characters.

It's been talked about a bit. The big issue detractors have is it seems unlikely Sakurai would either limit the number of characters for a side mode's math or add characters just to hit that mode's convenient number. There's also an issue of the math will not work out before you unlock everyone or after you get DLC.

It's still a better indication of possible roster size than some other suggested methods though.

 

[HairMythe]

Not sure if this has been talked about yet but using some maths and assuming that smashdown mode can be played with 2 players, 3 players and 4 players the total number of characters must have these numbers as facters. before King K. Rool was added the smashdown mode worked perfectly for 4 players and 2 players but not 3. including K. rool we now have 69 character (this is including echoes as well). for smashdown to work we would need either a total of 72 characters or 84 (assuming 3 players can play smashdown).

using this we can say that either 3 more players are getting in or 15. I find 3 unlikely as that would mean only like one more unique character whereas 15 could have 5 more unique characters and 10 more echoes.

if its 15 we will see a total of 23 new characters including echoes. this seems high considering what sakurai said however he may have just been refering to not to expect to many new unique characters.

Actually, in the presentation of the smashdown mode in the direct, the character selection screen lacks the miis, so that'd make it 68 fighters if they aren't playable in that mode.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

How realistic is my dream to have Bandanna Dee, Shadow, Geno, and Skull Kid go at each other on Final Destination?

 

[Impa4Smash]

So I was looking over the Mii Costumes, just because of how many characters who got them are now playable or ATs.

As of now, we still have Isabelle, Heihachi, Skull Kid, Akira, Jacky, Black Knight, Lloyd Irving, KK Slider, Viridi, Geno, Gil, and Tails who have not been confirmed or deconfirmed.

I might be missing some. But any thoughts? I think a few will still be revealed as either playable or ATs.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So I was looking over the Mii Costumes, just because of how many characters who got them are now playable or ATs.

As of now, we still have Isabelle, Heihachi, Skull Kid, Akira, Jacky, Black Knight, Lloyd Irving, KK Slider, Viridi, Geno, Gil, and Tails who have not been confirmed or deconfirmed.

I might be missing some. But any thoughts? I think a few will still be revealed as either playable or ATs.

Isn't Tails in the background of Sonic's stage? For Tails, at least, I think that's the most we're going to get.


also wish I was as confident with Geno getting in as some of you seem to be.

 

[osby]

How realistic is my dream to have Bandanna Dee, Shadow, Geno, and Skull Kid go at each other on Final Destination?

Weirdly enough, not completely unrealistic.
Considering you can do the same with Sonic, PAC-MAN, Ryu, Cloud Strife, Solid Snake, Mega Man, Simon Belmont and Mario.

 

[Enchess]

So I was looking over the Mii Costumes, just because of how many characters who got them are now playable or ATs.

As of now, we still have Isabelle, Heihachi, Skull Kid, Akira, Jacky, Black Knight, Lloyd Irving, KK Slider, Viridi, Geno, Gil, and Tails who have not been confirmed or deconfirmed.

I might be missing some. But any thoughts? I think a few will still be revealed as either playable or ATs.

Of those, Isabelle seems somewhat likely, Skull Kid and Geno seem possible but unlikely. Everyone else, I don't see happening this time around.

 

[Dee Dude]

How realistic is my dream to have Bandanna Dee, Shadow, Geno, and Skull Kid go at each other on Final Destination?

At this current timeline and decade?

Shockingly realistic.

 

[SirCamp]

You know what?...I wasted money on Mii Costumes too just so I’m not a hypocrite.

Here’s a game I have as well.
There’s three remaining unique newcomers you can pick, but under these conditions:

(New Nintendo series)
(Pre-existing Nintendo series)
(3rd Party)

Who do you pick for each one?

I assume you mean new to smash? If so, this is legit the easiest question for me as my top three my wanted fit this to a T.

Isaac
Dixie Kong
Banjo & Kazooie

 

[Impa4Smash]

How realistic is my dream to have Bandanna Dee, Shadow, Geno, and Skull Kid go at each other on Final Destination?

I think not too far fetched. All four are very popular, and, IMO, pretty likely. Not even a fan, but Shadow seems like a lock at this point. The Moon as an AT looks good for Skull Kid. Geno is very popular in the Smash community, and Sakurai expressed interest in him before. Bandanna Dee is very popular, unless Sakurai really doesn't want to include new Kirby stuff.

Isn't Tails in the background of Sonic's stage? For Tails, at least, I think that's the most we're going to get.


also wish I was as confident with Geno getting in as some of you seem to be.

Probably true on Tails, though I'd like him.

But probably the only thing preventing Geno from not getting in would be Square not wanting to play ball.

 

[Noipoi]

So I was looking over the Mii Costumes, just because of how many characters who got them are now playable or ATs.

As of now, we still have Isabelle, Heihachi, Skull Kid, Akira, Jacky, Black Knight, Lloyd Irving, KK Slider, Viridi, Geno, Gil, and Tails who have not been confirmed or deconfirmed.

I might be missing some. But any thoughts? I think a few will still be revealed as either playable or ATs.

Geno is the most likely on this list because he's so heavily requested and this game seems to focus on mostly fan requests (Though I hope we get some newer characters), i'm expecting Geno to appear. Isabelle is the second most likely of these in my opinion, I wouldn't be surprised to see Isabelle revealed at all. I could see Tails getting in but I think Shadow will be the Sonic newcomer if we get one. Skull Kid is kinda likely too but I wouldn't bet on it personally. The rest I don't feel will get in, but I could be wrong.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Of those, Isabelle seems somewhat likely, Skull Kid and Geno seem possible but unlikely. Everyone else, I don't see happening this time around.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Possibly those three, with Isabelle definitely being the most likely as she could be an echo.

Maybe Heiachi or Lloyd if Namco gets another rep.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I got a weird bit of speculation.

How likely would it be that individual little groups are working on Echo fighters within the games dev team? I thought back to how the Electroshock arm allowed Dark Pit to become an echo fighter. I think it's possible that maybe there's just tiny groups making their dream echo fighter in the dev team. I think that might explain some of the discrepancies between the Echo fighters polish.

 

[osby]

I think not too far fetched. All four are very popular, and, IMO, pretty likely. Not even a fan, but Shadow seems like a lock at this point. The Moon as an AT looks good for Skull Kid. Geno is very popular in the Smash community, and Sakurai expressed interest in him before. Bandanna Dee is very popular, unless Sakurai really doesn't want to include new Kirby stuff.



Probably true on Tails, though I'd like him.

But probably the only thing preventing Geno from not getting in would be Square not wanting to play ball.

Bandana Dee's popularity is relatively recent so I can see him not making the cut.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Bandana Dee's popularity is relatively recent so I can see him not making the cut.

As bizarre as it is to say, I agree - Bandanna Dee is less likely than Geno, Skull Kid, and Shadow. Wild times

 

[osby]

I got a weird bit of speculation.

How likely would it be that individual little groups are working on Echo fighters within the games dev team? I thought back to how the Electroshock arm allowed Dark Pit to become an echo fighter. I think it's possible that maybe there's just tiny groups making their dream echo fighter in the dev team. I think that might explain some of the discrepancies between the Echo fighters polish.

That would also explain why Chrom might have gotten special treatment, considering some people in the development team are apparently FE fans.
Though it's probably due to convenience than anything else.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I got a weird bit of speculation.

How likely would it be that individual little groups are working on Echo fighters within the games dev team? I thought back to how the Electroshock arm allowed Dark Pit to become an echo fighter. I think it's possible that maybe there's just tiny groups making their dream echo fighter in the dev team. I think that might explain some of the discrepancies between the Echo fighters polish.

That could be a possibility. Especially with how easy it is to balance echoes. I do hope the echoes are polished more before release though. My boy Chrom is lookin a bit rough

 

[Enchess]

I got a weird bit of speculation.

How likely would it be that individual little groups are working on Echo fighters within the games dev team? I thought back to how the Electroshock arm allowed Dark Pit to become an echo fighter. I think it's possible that maybe there's just tiny groups making their dream echo fighter in the dev team. I think that might explain some of the discrepancies between the Echo fighters polish.

Oh cool, that's actually something I mentioned a lot of pages back, only I brought it up to devil's advocate someone on resources needed for echo development since that structure would mean hardly any impact on main team.

I can see this being the case. Hopefully it means we get Ninten if true.

 

[osby]

As bizarre as it is to say, I agree - Bandanna Dee is less likely than Geno, Skull Kid, and Shadow. Wild times

Yep. I don't think he had much chance last time either, but it's still weird.
Though, technically his first appearance, just like Dixie, was pretty early, so he still has a chance. Maybe. I hope.

 

[Noipoi]

In my opinion Bandanna Dee is likely, but not nearly as likely as some people think. Some people think he's a lock which is by no means true.
Geno's not even a lock, much less Bandanna Dee. Don't take this to mean I don't like Bandanna Dee, because I do, but he is not a shoo in.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Yep. I don't think he had much chance last time either, but it's still weird.
Though, techinically his first appearance, just like Dixie, was pretty early, so he still has a chance. Maybe. I hope.

Hopefully he did well on the ballot. I'm sure Kirby characters did fairly well in general, so maybe Sakurai took notice and got the little spear wielder in.

And hopefully with hybrid clones being a thing with Chrom, that means Dixie is likelier now too

 

[Enchess]

In my opinion Bandanna Dee is likely, but not nearly as likely as some people think. Some people think he's a lock which is by no means true.
Geno's not even a lock, much less Bandanna Dee. Don't take this to mean I don't like Bandanna Dee, because I do, but he is not a shoo in.

I think BD fans are definitely underestimating the "generic enemy" problem. It's not about whether he is one. It's whether Sakurai is worried enough about the impression avg player has that he is.

Sakurai is known to be at least somewhat concerned with players impressions and is known to have backed out of character for that reason. Obviously not all the time. He put Corrin in, but we know he at least considered not because of fan perception of too many FE.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Master Higgins

 

[Impa4Smash]

I think BD fans are definitely underestimating the "generic enemy" problem. It's not about whether he is one. It's whether Sakurai is worried enough about the impression avg player has that he is.

Sakurai is known to be at least somewhat concerned with players impressions and is known to have backed out of character for that reason. Obviously not all the time. He put Corrin in, but we know he at least considered not because of fan perception of too many FE.

But if Bandanna Dee has the popularity why would Sakurai hesitate? Fates hadn’t even released when he included Corrin so that was probably where the hesitation came from, along with the 5 other characters from the series in the game (while Kirby only has 3)