Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kirby Dragons]

Does Pokemon really need a newcomer? It already has the most amount of characters in the game, the current focus of Pokemon is on gen 1 and Sakurai might want all the characters to be heavily requested ones.

I count as one character, which would make only 7. I'd be fine with another one.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I say OoT because it ties better with Skull Kid than any other design.

But its ugly tho

 

[UberMadman]

What I want to know about the last Direct is how did soo many people assume that:

Screen shaking = K.Rool

I saw soo many people say "King....?!" or "It's K.Rool!" instantly before the Heroes vs Villains thing even came up.


Like with the Ridley thing it was pretty obvious since it was being set in a space station, but did everyone just assume we were going to get K.Rool as the surprise at the end?

1. Ground shaking = heavyweight character.
2. Ridley is already confirmed.
3. Therfore, Ridley is not about to be revealed.
4. Next most popular heavyweight request = King K. Rool.
5. Character about to be revealed = King K. Rool.

This was my thought process, at least. I became more confident when the heroes and villains showed up, and downright positive as soon as DK appeared.

 

[NintenRob]

I say OoT because it ties better with Skull Kid than any other design.

With Zelda designs all over the place this time, I doubt they'd choose a design just to tie them together for a trailer.

I could still see them getting a Co reveal though with SS Impa. Have Impa telling the legend of Skull Kid getting in Smash before revealing herself.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

To be blunt, it's more credible than Loz18 saying that K.Rool and Skull Kid are in to "Promote new games" when we've yet to see anything DK or Zelda related yet.

It's not like I trust Loz that much. He goes on one day and says he doesn't know anything.

Then turns around and suddenly he says Verg is full of crap and skull kid is in the game

 

[Cosmic77]

Does Pokemon really need a newcomer? It already has the most amount of characters in the game, the current focus of Pokemon is on gen 1 and Sakurai might want all the characters to be heavily requested ones.

I'll say the exact same thing people tell me when I complain of the FE reps.

"But the number of reps in a series doesn't matter! Sakurai only pays attention to how unique that character could be, and that's what's really important!"

 

[Shroob]

It's not like I trust Loz that much. He goes on one day and says he doesn't know anything.

Then turns around and suddenly he says Verg is full of crap and skull kid is in the game

I don't necessarily believe the Neogaf rumor, but there's something about it that keeps bringing me back to it.

It's a leak that's not going to make the community happy outside of echo fighters, but at the same time, I could totally see it happen.


That, and with Neogaf's leak policy, and it still being up is suspect.

 

[Impa4Smash]

But its ugly tho

Nah look at this badass

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'll say the exact same thing people tell me when I complain of the FE reps.

"But the number of reps in a series doesn't matter! Sakurai only pays attention to how unique that character could be, and that's what's really important!"

...You say that as an answer to Fire Emblem characters?

When there are 4 marths?

 

[osby]

Nah look at this badass
View attachment 157234

I forgot everyone in OoT wears spandex for some reason.

 

[papagenos]

How's it credible? Didn't he only get that Chrom was going to be a Roy echo?

i have no idea why the Neogaf leak is getting attention while the leak that actually guessed Richter (probably the most unguessable newcomer) and also survived the direct, also correctly guessed K Rool and Dark Samus, AND wasnt deconfirmed by either dark samus or gardevoir being shown off as an assist trophy or pokeball pokemon repectively, is getting pushed aside.

it didnt even have many characters on it and gardevoir and dark samus could have ruined it instantly so not "safe" guesses by making its number of known characters "small". it has friggin gothitelle which NO ONE would try and fake a leak without claiming something like "every character gets an echo fighter" but nope this one ONLY has gothitelle and dark smaus as known echos. PLUS its origin story is completely plausible, datamining a copy of the demo from a tournament.

that leak has SO much going for it imo its crazy, im shocked it isnt being talked about like gospel.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I have a feeling that good or bad we'll find out about Geno next time new Smash info is shown.

For better or worse, I'm sure Geno's current speculation is reaching the ears of the people in charge

I'm not sure we'll see anything in relation to Geno for a while, if he's in then I get the feeling he'll be the last newcomer shown, and if he isn't then it's unlikely he even has a role in the game at all.

To be blunt, it's more credible than Loz18 saying that K.Rool and Skull Kid are in to "Promote new games" when we've yet to see anything DK or Zelda related yet.

At the very least Loz18 has gotten a lot of things right up until now, and in great detail aswell. His behaviour is a little bit odd, and he unnecessarily adds a lot of his own speculation into his posts which creates a lot of confusion, but there's no doubt he has at least had legitimate information at one point, and is also still part of a circle of people sharing potential insider information with each other.

This NeoGAF guy is just running off of predicting Chrom would be a Roy echo, he's no more credible than say the Imgur leak which got Snake right. There are plenty of other suspicious things about that leak, like a Galacta Knight echo despite Meta Knight having a Galacta Knight recolor (which does not fly, as seen by Samus' Dark Samus recolor being removed), or the Monster Hunter character being so far behind in development that it's not ready to be shown a mere 4 months before release.

 

[osby]

...You say that as an answer to Fire Emblem characters?

When there are 4 marths?

It has one Marth. It's two less than Links we have and one less than Marios we have.

Though I don't see a problem. It has more unique characters than Mother, Star Fox and Legend of Zelda.

 

[Jibblypuff_]

IMO:

September: Nintendo Direct

October: Smash Direct/Presentation

November: Robin-type reveal(perhaps 2 trailers)

December: Nothing unless they want to show something off at The Game Awards for some reason.

I say Smash into dump in October since I think they would want more than 2 or 3 weeks to market the mystery mode.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I forgot everyone in OoT wears spandex for some reason.

OoT was like the 80s when it came to Hyrule fashion sensibilities

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It has one Marth. It's two less than Links we have and one less than Marios we have.

Though I don't see a problem. It has more unique characters than Mother, Star Fox and Legend of Zelda.

Roy and Lucina were both based on Marth and Chrom is based on Roy. By extension that's 4 marths

 

[osby]

Roy and Lucina were both based on Marth and Chrom is based on Roy. By extension that's 4 marths

Okay. By this logic we also have three Foxes, what's the harm in one more?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Can someone explain to me why the Moon being an AT improves Skull Kid's chances? I'm kind of confused about it. I'd have imagined that would have been Skull Kid's inevitable Final Smash but it seems most people think it improves his chances? I'm genuinely a little confused on this one.

 

[Shroob]

I'm not sure we'll see anything in relation to Geno for a while, if he's in then I get the feeling he'll be the last newcomer shown, and if he isn't then it's unlikely he even has a role in the game at all.



At the very least Loz18 has gotten a lot of things right up until now, and in great detail aswell. His behaviour is a little bit odd, and he unnecessarily adds a lot of his own speculation into his posts which creates a lot of confusion, but there's no doubt he has at least had legitimate information at one point, and is also still part of a circle of people sharing potential insider information with each other.

This NeoGAF guy is just running off of predicting Chrom would be a Roy echo, he's no more credible than say the Imgur leak which got Snake right. There are plenty of other suspicious things about that leak, like a Galacta Knight echo despite Meta Knight having a Galacta Knight recolor (which does not fly, as seen by Samus' Dark Samus recolor being removed), or the Monster Hunter character being so far behind in development that it's not ready to be shown a mere 4 months before release.

We'll see in all due time.

As much as I want Skull Kid, Loz's claims about Skull Kid have driven me to heavily question him this time, to the point where I'm finding him somewhat shakey.

Verg also doesn't have much to offer anymore anyway. Besides confirming Isabelle's an echo, which we already could assume, he doesn't even know for sure Gen7 is legit or not, or what it even is.

 

[osby]

Can someone explain to me why the Moon being an AT improves Skull Kid's chances? I'm kind of confused about it. I'd have imagined that would have been Skull Kid's inevitable Final Smash but it seems most people think it improves his chances? I'm genuinely a little confused on this one.

Because some people think his AT replaced by the Moon.

 

[blazefan519]

...You say that as an answer to Fire Emblem characters?

When there are 4 marths?

Marth #1 was added in Melee to promote his game and because Melee needed to pad out the roster with more clones, was only brought back in 4 due to fan demand and again in Ultimate because of the Everyone is Here moniker
Marth #2 added because she is the second most popular female character in the series (And even though she doesn't fight like Marth, she did disguise as him)
Marth #3 added because he was planned for Smash 4 and is also to promote the most recent game at the time and while he may not be as popular as his daughter, he is still a very popular character in the series (he also has a move borrowed from Ike so I guess he's Marth and a half kek)
Marth #4 is just Marth lol

I will never get the "Fire Emblem has too many characters" argument.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Okay. By this logic we also have three Foxes, what's the harm in one more?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I just find that specific argument funny when most Fire Emblem characters aren't unique and there is a large amount of them.

 

[Cosmic77]

...You say that as an answer to Fire Emblem characters?

When there are 4 marths?

I want quality over quantity, but that's the excuse I get when I bring it up.

It has one Marth. It's two less than Links we have and one less than Marios we have.

Though I don't see a problem. It has more unique characters than Mother, Star Fox and Legend of Zelda.

There's Marth, Lucina (Echo), and then Roy and Chrom (Semis). Might not be the same character, but there isn't much diversity between them.

And having more unique newcomers than Mother and Star Fox isn't exactly a huge accomplishment when FE already has more than twice as many characters.

 

[osby]

Marth #1 was added in Melee to promote his game and because Melee needed to pad out the roster with more clones, was only brought back in 4 due to fan demand and again in Ultimate because of the Everyone is Here moniker
Marth #2 added because she is the second most popular female character in the series (And even though she doesn't fight like Marth, she did disguise as him)
Marth #3 added because he was planned for Smash 4 and is also to promote the most recent game at the time and while he may not be as popular as his daughter, he is still a very popular character in the series (he also has a move borrowed from Ike so I guess he's Marth and a half kek)
Marth #4 is just Marth lol

I will never get the "Fire Emblem has too many characters" argument.

Me too, it's subjective.
Also it still has more diversity in characters and movesets compared to, say, Zelda.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Roy and Lucina were both based on Marth and Chrom is based on Roy. By extension that's 4 marths

Roy and Marth play very differently to me. Even Lucina feels different from Marth, IMO

Can someone explain to me why the Moon being an AT improves Skull Kid's chances? I'm kind of confused about it. I'd have imagined that would have been Skull Kid's inevitable Final Smash but it seems most people think it improves his chances? I'm genuinely a little confused on this one.

He is a very popular character who was previously an AT and has not yet be deconfirmed like Waluigi, Ashley, and other popular ATs. Much like Shadow and Isabelle who seem very likely.

I suppose we could have Skull Kid and the Moon as ATs, but...why not show him too?

 

[Deleted member]

N3ON

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/427491596

Read through the thread.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Because some people think his AT replaced by the Moon.

Is...is that it?

I mean his AT didn't even throw the Moon down last time, so that seems like a weird leap of logic.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

We'll see in all due time.

As much as I want Skull Kid, Loz's claims about Skull Kid have driven me to heavily question him this time, to the point where I'm finding him somewhat shakey.

Verg also doesn't have much to offer anymore anyway. Besides confirming Isabelle's an echo, which we already could assume, he doesn't even know for sure Gen7 is legit or not, or what it even is.

I can perfectly understand not fully trusting Loz18 or even Vergeben, their overall behaviour makes it hard to really believe that everything they say is true or is even coming from the same sources as the correct info did, and I'm not too happy with how it's come out that they're trying to get further information by having contact with guys like lupensko (who turned out to be woefully wrong about no DK newcomers). Doesn't mean that this NeoGAF guy deserves the time of the day though, there are so many holes in his whole writeup, I'm pretty comfortable predicting his entire leak will fall apart by the next announcement.

 

[osby]

Is...is that it?

I mean his AT didn't even throw the Moon down last time, so that seems like a weird leap of logic.

I also think so but people also think Knucles replaced Shadow so he can be playable. Who knows, at the moment?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Is...is that it?

I mean his AT didn't even throw the Moon down last time, so that seems like a weird leap of logic.

Half the speculated characters are just because their AT is missing. So it's not something unique to Skull Kid

 

[blazefan519]

I want quality over quantity, but that's the excuse I get when I bring it up.



There's Marth, Lucina (Echo), and then Roy and Chrom (Semis). Might not be the same character, but there isn't much diversity between them.

And having more unique newcomers than Mother and Star Fox isn't exactly a huge accomplishment when FE already has more than twice as many characters.

Then just ignore the ones that aren't unique. They don't take away anything from the roster and make sense because with a series that changes the cast of characters in just about every game of course it's bound to have more Newcomers than a lot of other franchises. All the other franchises people want "reps" for have generally the same cast in every game, the only exception being Pokemon which has 9 characters if you count PT and it's even more dumb when I see the "too may characters" brought up for them.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

IMO:

September: Nintendo Direct

October: Smash Direct/Presentation

November: Robin-type reveal(perhaps 2 trailers)

December: Nothing unless they want to show something off at The Game Awards for some reason.

I say Smash into dump in October since I think they would want more than 2 or 3 weeks to market the mystery mode.

That's mostly what I was thinking too.

September is something to expect due to the Online service.

October Smash Direct would establish that there really is a two-month pattern between each time we get a huge nuke of content, not to mention that talking in depth about "Spirits" in a regular Direct doesn't feel right.

November... I didn't think about that, but it does feel likely.

December could either be something at the Game Awards or maybe a Mewtwo-type reveal where we see the first DLC character in an ealy stage. Maybe both?

 

[osby]

Then just ignore the ones that aren't unique. They don't take away anything from the roster and make sense because with a series that changes the cast of characters in just about every game of course it's bound to have more Newcomers than a lot of other franchises. All the other franchises people want "reps" for have generally the same cast in every game, the only exception being Pokemon which has 9 characters if you count PT and it's even more dumb when I see the "too may characters" brought up for them.

Also this time game gives you option to only seeing five of them in CSS as slots.

 

[Cosmic77]

Can someone explain to me why the Moon being an AT improves Skull Kid's chances? I'm kind of confused about it. I'd have imagined that would have been Skull Kid's inevitable Final Smash but it seems most people think it improves his chances? I'm genuinely a little confused on this one.

I'm inclined to agree. While his missing AT is weird, I think people are reading too much into it. KI is missing both of its ATs, and Kat and Ana are both missing despite Ashley already being disconfirmed. He also can't be an Echo like Dark Samus or Isabelle, so that's far less suspicious than the latter two.

I think Loz is the one bringing so much life to Skull Kid. We'll see how this pans out, but Young Link's missing FS, the Moon as an AT, and the rumored boss mode gives me more reasons to be worried than excited.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Then just ignore the ones that aren't unique. They don't take away anything from the roster and make sense because with a series that changes the cast of characters in just about every game of course it's bound to have more Newcomers than a lot of other franchises. All the other franchises people want "reps" for have generally the same cast in every game, the only exception being Pokemon which has 9 characters if you count PT and it's even more dumb when I see the "too may characters" brought up for them.

Do you know what a strawman argument is?

Because you are taking what I said and twisting it into something else so you can fight against it.

Attacking the Strawman

 

[Jetsurge]

Being new wouldn't hold him back as he was pretty popular on the ballot (at least in Japan), what would hold him back is Sakurai still pretending like any Kirby games except the four he directed don't exist.

Sakurai CREATED BANDANNA DEE!!!!!

 

[NintenRob]

Can someone explain to me why the Moon being an AT improves Skull Kid's chances? I'm kind of confused about it. I'd have imagined that would have been Skull Kid's inevitable Final Smash but it seems most people think it improves his chances? I'm genuinely a little confused on this one.

An assist trophy can still be a final smash, see Riki


It's just curious that we have the moon but no Skull Kid bringing it down. In fact it seems to have replaced him entirely.

Couple that with the prominence of Great Bay (I'd say second only to Kongo Falls [K Rool]) and the continued mystery of Young Links final smash potentially leading to a tie in.

 

[Shroob]

Would we even expect anything in December? The game comes out the 7th, and while it'd be possible, you think they'd want to give us a bit of time to digest everything.

A November info dump seems like it'd work best, since I can't imagine them dumping the rest of the roster in October, that'd be a bit early.

 

[Jetsurge]

...You say that as an answer to Fire Emblem characters?

When there are 4 marths?

Fire Emblem is really just:
1. Marthx4
2. Ike
3. Robin
4. Corrin

Then it only has 1 assist and very samey stages.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Half the speculated characters are just because their AT is missing. So it's not something unique to Skull Kid

I also think so but people also think Knucles replaced Shadow so he can be playable. Who knows, at the moment?

Fair...but Knuckles for example also doesn't use Shadow's most famous ability in his AT whilst the Moon would seem to take Skull Kid's most famous ability surely taking away from the character's moveset?

Very odd to me, but maybe I'm wrong? Smash does break rules, maybe they'll have a Final Smash and an Assist Trophy do the exact same thing but I'm doubting it.

We'll see soon I guess. After Ashley's reveal I'm a lot more cautious about missing ATs.