Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Arcadenik]

I’m still rooting for Banjo-Kazooie to be the Snake/Cloud of SSB5... a popular third-party character who seems unlikely because they are on the competitors’ consoles. Then again, Banjo-Kazooie is on Xbox and Snake/Cloud are on PlayStation... maybe we might get another PlayStation character. I would be fine with Crash Bandicoot. He had games on Game Boy Advance, Gamecube, DS, and Wii so he meets the “must have a game on Nintendo console” bare minimum requirement. I liked his remake trilogy. I just want Banjo-Kazooie more.

Oh, and Simon Belmont for Smash! Don’t forget him.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Kinda does when people still go "CLOUD TRULY OPENED THE GATES TO THIRD PARTIES!" when Snake was the first one we've ever gotten and would have been the only third party character if SEGA didn't suddenly change their mind on keeping Sonic out

I don't know or care what nonsense people are saying about Cloud. As far as Snake being the first third party character, please explain to me why that makes him any more likely or deserving.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Smash for Switch better buff Falco, please.
I understand they nerfed him, but buff his overall speed and his down air please.
He is actually fun to play in Smash 4, because he is more of a "bad but casual / fun" type of character rather than a "competitive" character in Melee and Brawl.

I did modify Falco's moveset so that he operated better. It's too bad that any suggested adjustments fall on deaf ears in the eyes of the game developers.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't know or care what nonsense people are saying about Cloud. As far as Snake being the first third party character, please explain to me why that makes him any more likely or deserving.

He's a legacy character in that regard. The very first one. That can hold a special place in many people's heart. I feel Snake does deserve to get for multiple reasons and that's just one of them

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

He's a legacy character in that regard. The very first one. That can hold a special place in many people's heart. I feel Snake does deserve to get for multiple reasons and that's just one of them

Being a veteran means absolutely nothing for a third-party though, since it requires licensing anyway. If Konami says no, any reason why Snake deserves to come back is instantly no longer valid because in the end, a third-party character can't get in if the third-party company doesn't want it in Smash.

Then again, why would they say no? It's Smash! ... Well, as you brought up, Gwen, there was a time where Sega didn't want Sonic in Smash. It's possible for someone to say "no."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Being a veteran means absolutely nothing for a third-party though, since it requires licensing anyway. If Konami says no, any reason why Snake deserves to come back is instantly no longer valid because in the end, a third-party character can't get in if the third-party company doesn't want it in Smash.

Then again, why would they say no? It's Smash! ... Well, as you brought up, Gwen, there was a time where Sega didn't want Sonic in Smash. It's possible for someone to say "no."

Kinda does mean something as it means all the puzzle pieces are in place, they already KNOW how to implement Snake

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Kinda does mean something as it means all the puzzle pieces are in place, they already KNOW how to implement Snake

Still means nothing if Konami says no.

Speaking of Konami though, I'd say Bomberman has better chances than before since they finally give a damn about the IP.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Still means nothing if Konami says no.

Speaking of Konami though, I'd say Bomberman has better chances than before since they finally give a damn about the IP.

I was talking merit?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I was talking merit?

Oh... Alright then.

 

[FutureSky]

Hi guys, i'm new to the forums!

On the subject of 3rdparties, i think Martina from Dragon Quest XI, Bomberman from Bombermand and Llyod Irving from Tales of Symphonia have a decent chance.

Maybe Tracer from Overwatch if Nintendo wants to put another Cloud, but i don't think we'd get many surprises in smash 5.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Maybe Tracer from Overwatch if Nintendo wants to put another Cloud, but i don't think we'd get many surprises in smash 5.

Never gonna happen. Nintendo seems to not give a **** about characters made by Western developers.

Diddy is the only excpetion to this and even then, he's still a Nintendo character in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Ura]

Never gonna happen. Nintendo seems to not give a **** about characters made by Western developers.

Diddy is the only excpetion to this and even then, he's still a Nintendo character in the grand scheme of things.

Hopefully this is a rule that gets broken in a future Smash.

 

[UserKev]

I don't care about anymore third party reps. I personally rather not see anymore of them in. Think of the magic it'd bring back to Smash. I don't know. I think I'm sick of them.

Mega Man, Sonic and Ryu are the core definitions. Bayo is basically a Nintendo character. Cloud is PlayStation Allstars.

God, please give me a purely Nintendo Smash again.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hopefully this is a rule that gets broken in a future Smash.

I hope so too, honestly.

 

[Krysco]

I'd just like future DLC characters to be properly balanced. 5/7 of them in Sm4sh are which is pretty good but those other 2 stick out like a sore thumb.

I would leave it at that but then I probably sound salty or make it seem like I'm saying Bayo or Cloud are broken or some **** so I'll clarify a bit. First off, Cloud in doubles. Not even gonna sugar coat it, he's dumb in that meta. Don't even care if he fits the term 'broken' there or not, he's overcentralizing. As for singles, it's honestly just a matter of too many characters not having the tools to deal with Cloud's disjoint or Bayo's recovery/forcing approaches with bullets/Witch Time. I'm not saying we can't have good DLC (I have no problem with the likes of Ryu, Corrin or Mewtwo), heck, I'd be fine with a DLC still being the best in the game but whatever weaknesses they have should be exploitable for more than just a hand full of the cast...probably still sound salty but **** it.

 

[Ura]

I hope so too, honestly.

And come to think of it the rumored inclusions of Banjo and James Bond might put a wrench (no pun intended lol) in to that idea somewhat.

 

[FutureSky]

I don't care about anymore third party reps. I personally rather not see anymore of them in. Think of the magic it'd bring back to Smash. I don't know. I think I'm sick of them.

Mega Man, Sonic and Ryu are the core definitions. Bayo is basically a Nintendo character. Cloud is PlayStation Allstars.

God, please give me a purely Nintendo Smash again.

I don't think that's going to happen, specially when 3rdparties good a great reception in Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

I just thought of something stupid. Dragon Ball fans can finally get a Dragon Ball character in Smash without breaking the "must debut in a video game" rule.

....there's been game-original characters before 21.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think Cloud works in Smash as SE's biggest representative and that's why he was chosen, especially given he was paid DLC.

Using that logic though what other characters would be a company's biggest, even if they're not known for Nintendo appearances.

Ubisoft: Rabbids, Rayman, Assassin?
Valve: Chell, Team Fortress character, Gordon Freeman?
Activision: Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Call of Duty-man?
Bethesda: Vault Boy, Dragonborn, Doom Marine, BJ?
EA: Loot Crates, Exclusive Fifa rights?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

....there's been game-original characters before 21.

Yeah, but this one is recent and relevant, so she gets bonus points.

Also, the whole thing is a joke, Goldielocks.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think Cloud works in Smash as SE's biggest representative and that's why he was chosen, especially given he was paid DLC.

Using that logic though what other characters would be a company's biggest, even if they're not known for Nintendo appearances.

Ubisoft: Rabbids, Rayman, Assassin?
Valve: Chell, Team Fortress character, Gordon Freeman?
Activision: Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Call of Duty-man?
Bethesda: Vault Boy, Dragonborn, Doom Marine, BJ?
EA: Loot Crates, Exclusive Fifa rights?

Microsoft: Master Chief, Jago/Fulgore(Fulgore is the main face of the series, but Jago's the main protagonist. They somewhat flipflop on who represents the series better. Even the games don't have a consistent face on the cartridge/cover itself), Steve?
Sony: Kratos, Nathan Drake(and that's all I can remember).

He's a legacy character in that regard. The very first one. That can hold a special place in many people's heart. I feel Snake does deserve to get for multiple reasons and that's just one of them

Yeah, I am annoyed when people treat Cloud as if he opened some gates. He never did anyway. At best it made people realize that having a major history(as in the character doing so) with Nintendo wasn't majorly important either. Heck, many still think that he had no Nintendo appearances(albeit, the whole Nintendo appearance being required is nothing more than a fanrule, so it's not the worst thing to think, but it's no less inaccurate, as the fanrule has yet to be broken regardless). Snake is the only one to truly open any gates at this point. Of course, I want him back for other reasons. He had a very fun moveset, added a lot to the game itself via great music, a great stage, the codecs, great dialogue even without the codecs, and helped make the Story Mode even better(I really want a Story Mode again, although it doesn't need to be as big as the SSE).

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I think Cloud works in Smash as SE's biggest representative and that's why he was chosen, especially given he was paid DLC.

Using that logic though what other characters would be a company's biggest, even if they're not known for Nintendo appearances.

Ubisoft: Rabbids, Rayman, Assassin?
Valve: Chell, Team Fortress character, Gordon Freeman?
Activision: Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Call of Duty-man?
Bethesda: Vault Boy, Dragonborn, Doom Marine, BJ?
EA: Loot Crates, Exclusive Fifa rights?

You have no idea how happy I'd be to see Spyro, Rayman and/or a TF2 character in Smash.

I don't know if they could actually get (or, more precisely, be willing to add) characters like some from Valve's FPS games or the Doom Marine when they rely so heavily on guns, though. Snake got around it by having his moveset consist of explosive weapons instead, in addition to several, more standard physical attacks, so it's certainly not impossible for some of them.

The Doom Marine for example, if he was considered, could have a moveset that mainly makes use of the energy/laser weapons and explosives from the franchise instead of any standard firearms.

 

[Deleted member]

if Smash for Switch would add Funky Kong, people would complain he should have been a skin for DK. But Funky Kong is one sweet monkey, and I am sure they could find him a move-set.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The Doom Marine for example, if he was considered, could have a moveset that mainly makes use of the energy/laser weapons and explosives from the franchise instead of any standard firearms.

Doomguy has had a lot to work with: Fists, Chainsaw, plasma rifle, Big Fricken' Gun, Gauss cannon. I think he is alright.

I think the problem isn't so much real world firearms but more accessible real world firearms so Heavy Weapons Guy could still make use of Sasha but not his shotgun. But everyone knows his go-to secondary is Sandvich.

 

[GolisoPower]

Microsoft: Master Chief, Jago/Fulgore(Fulgore is the main face of the series, but Jago's the main protagonist. They somewhat flipflop on who represents the series better. Even the games don't have a consistent face on the cartridge/cover itself), Steve?

This might sound stupid, but what about Marcus Fenix or General RAAM? Gears of War is very popular in Japan, not to mention that it’s one of the most popular third-person shooters as opposed to Halo being a first-person shooter.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This might sound stupid, but what about Marcus Fenix or General RAAM? Gears of War is very popular in Japan, not to mention that it’s one of the most popular third-person shooters as opposed to Halo being a first-person shooter.

Well, I was going for ones that were a bit more iconic Microsoft-wise, but them too.

 

[Deleted member]

This might sound stupid, but what about Marcus Fenix or General RAAM? Gears of War is very popular in Japan, not to mention that it’s one of the most popular third-person shooters as opposed to Halo being a first-person shooter.

Come here Ura ,someone follows your way.
An Advanced Wars character would be pretty interesting, and it is said Nintendo killed it. Even though the company that owns it killed it, it is still a potential Smash character.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

An Advanced Wars character would be pretty interesting, and it is said Nintendo killed it. Even though the company that owns it killed it, it is still a potential Smash character.

Yeah, but again, IS killed it and only cares about Fire Emblem now... well, there's Paper Mario too, but it's a shadow of its former self, so it doesn't count.

Point is IS is gonna want more FE in Smash, not a dead franchise. If they have a say on who gets in from the games they make, which is probably the case because they're the ones who make the damn games, I wouldn't expect an Advance Wars character until a new AW game shows up. In other words, never.

 

[WiFi]

Rayman holds a pretty good chance of becoming a newcomer, or perhaps DLC. He already has tilts, Smash attacks, a unique glide mechanic, items, and a jab. He's basically made for Smash, and if Mario x Rabbids is anything, relations between Nintendo and Ubisoft are at an all-time high.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I’m still rooting for Banjo-Kazooie to be the Snake/Cloud of SSB5... a popular third-party character who seems unlikely because they are on the competitors’ consoles. Then again, Banjo-Kazooie is on Xbox and Snake/Cloud are on PlayStation... maybe we might get another PlayStation character. I would be fine with Crash Bandicoot. He had games on Game Boy Advance, Gamecube, DS, and Wii so he meets the “must have a game on Nintendo console” bare minimum requirement. I liked his remake trilogy. I just want Banjo-Kazooie more.

Oh, and Simon Belmont for Smash! Don’t forget him.

Banjo would also be the Sonic or Mega Man of Smash Switch: the 3rd character that brings the really big hype.

I've said this before in the Banjo-Kazooie support thread, but I really think that Banjo is one of the last third party characters that would bring that absurd level of hype that Mega Man did.

Rayman is the most likely third party because of Ubisoft's very close relationship with Nintendo, but is likely to the point where it wouldn't be a colossal amount of hype. It'd still be a good amount like any Newcomer, especially a third party one is, but not "Holy **** I can't believe my eyes is this real?" hype.

There are other popular picks that would meet a very warm welcome like Simon Belmont or Shovel Knight, but Banjo-Kazooie would be praised like the second coming.

 

[WiFi]

Banjo would also be the Sonic or Mega Man of Smash Switch: the 3rd character that brings the really big hype.

I've said this before in the Banjo-Kazooie support thread, but I really think that Banjo is one of the last third party characters that would bring that absurd level of hype that Banjo did.

Rayman is the most likely third party because of Ubisoft's very close relationship with Nintendo, but is likely to the point where it wouldn't be a colossal amount of hype. It'd still be a good amount like any Newcomer, especially a third party one is, but not "Holy **** I can't believe my eyes is this real?" hype.

There are other popular picks that would meet a very warm welcome like Simon Belmont or Shovel Knight, but Banjo-Kazooie would be praised like the second coming.

True. To be honest, if any wanted character joined Smash, it would be hype. For example, the world would go crazy if K. Rool got added, or if Wolf returned.

 

[Diddy Kong]

if Smash for Switch would add Funky Kong, people would complain he should have been a skin for DK. But Funky Kong is one sweet monkey, and I am sure they could find him a move-set.

I seriously want Funky to happen as well- Tropical Freeze remake convinced me. But I honestly also wouldn't mind Cranky. Dixie Kong is already an obvious choice as the original DKC heroine. But Funky and Cranky are just as iconic at this point, as they are also major NPCs since the very first DKC game.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

True. To be honest, if any wanted character joined Smash, it would be hype. For example, the world would go crazy if K. Rool got added, or if Wolf returned.

Oh yeah, pretty much anyone would start hype, but some characters would cause much larger noise than others. I think most of us would agree that the single biggest possible newcomer announcement, at the very least for first parties, would be Ridley. That would be so beyond insane. K. Rool and really any third party are up there though.

I think quite a few people would say that any more third party characters aren't necessary and they should focus on first party characters, but I think they've already moved pass the "necessary" point after Pac-Man. They made a big thing about having Mario, Sonic, Mega, and Pac, saying they're the pretty much four most iconic gaming characters.

If they were strictly focused on keeping the third party characters to a minimum, they would've left it at those three, but instead they thought it was worth it to expand into other parts of gaming history like the dawn of fighting games with Ryu and the start of the modern RPG with Cloud, so I can definitely see them adding at least one more "historic third party" character on top of Rayman because of Ubisoft's close ties.
Banjo-Kazooie would represent the Rare era of the late SNES and N64, Belmont would represent his iconic platformers of the NES like Mega Man, Shovel Knight would represent Nintendo's current push for indie games on the eShop, etc.

But at the same time I wouldn't be TOO surprised if there aren't any new third parties this time around.

 

[Diddy Kong]

B-b-but Banjo-Kazooie just had 2 N64 games

People don't see what greatness the Rare-Nintendo unity did to gaming as a whole. If nothing else, Banjo-Kazooie is a representation of a era of greatness.

This is what people love to forget.

Also, Banjo-Kazooie would be an addition from an era of gaming many grew up in, but haven't seen proper representation as a whole.

 

[Cosmic77]

Bayo is basically a Nintendo character.

I've seen a lot of people saying things like this, so I'd like to clarify something.

Sega owns the IP to Bayonetta. Not Nintendo. Not PlatinumGames. Just Sega. Bayonetta 2 and 3 might be Nintendo exclusive games, but Nintendo had to pay Sega for the rights before they could even begin production. PlatinumGames doesn't own Bayonetta. The studio may have created her, but they don't actually decide what gets to be done with her. They essentially take the funds from the publisher (which was Nintendo for Bayo 2 and 3) and create the next Bayonetta game. Until Nintendo actually purchases the rights to Bayo from Sega, she's third-party.

Oh yeah, pretty much anyone would start hype, but some characters would cause much larger noise than others. I think most of us would agree that the single biggest possible newcomer announcement, at the very least for first parties, would be Ridley. That would be so beyond insane. K. Rool and really any third party are up there though.

You're right about Ridley and K. Rool, but I think third-parties can be pretty divisive among fans. With the exception of Sonic and Mega Man, a large number of people had mixed feelings on the third-party characters we got. Bayo got the worst of it, but that's because everyone who didn't vote for her got pretty heated.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

B-b-but Banjo-Kazooie just had 2 N64 games

People don't see what greatness the Rare-Nintendo unity did to gaming as a whole. If nothing else, Banjo-Kazooie is a representation of a era of greatness.

This is what people love to forget.

Also, Banjo-Kazooie would be an addition from an era of gaming many grew up in, but haven't seen proper representation as a whole.

People don't 'like' to forget, people WANT to forget Banjo

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People don't 'like' to forget, people WANT to forget Banjo

Uh...

What?

Banjo's pretty popular outside of a Smash context.

The games are pretty beloved.

 

[IronTed]

At this point there are only a few true megaton announcements left for Smash. Ridley would be the biggest wildcard, but K. Rool also seems like a noteworthy pick.

At this point it seems 3rd parties are the only franchises with "big" characters. I mean, Smash 4 had Mega Man, Pac man, and Cloud. They were easily the biggest announcements at the time. Well, I guess Mewtwo would also be comparable to them as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

People don't 'like' to forget, people WANT to forget Banjo

Eh, I like the characters. It doesn't make them iconic characters just cause people like them. They're actually pretty niche overall as 3rd parties.

The fact of the matter is, a single era of gaming doesn't make them a huge member of gaming history. Or put more simply, they were awesome in the n64 era, but that doesn't mean they have a huge history at all. Donkey Kong 64 did more for the collectathon games too, as it actually made 100% completion far more notable, but the fact it went above 100%. B&K improved the formula, but it's not like it was a heavily repeated formula.

When it comes to Rare themselves, their biggest 3 franchises are/were(when it comes being the most memorable and notable in gaming as a whole) Battletoads(they were huge definers of the Beat 'Em Up genre, although you wouldn't be surprised in how people forget exactly how they affected it. Killer Instinct is another case where people forget what it did. It defined Announcer Chatter, Combos(Street Fighter II just had them as a glitch, but it didn't get combos officially as a game mechanic till after KI defined it) and the now widely used Combo Breaker. And then there's what they did for Donkey Kong Country, making it the biggest collectathon series overall.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Uh...

What?

Banjo's pretty popular outside of a Smash context.

The games are pretty beloved.

Eh, I like the characters. It doesn't make them iconic characters just cause people like them. They're actually pretty niche overall as 3rd parties.

The fact of the matter is, a single era of gaming doesn't make them a huge member of gaming history. Or put more simply, they were awesome in the n64 era, but that doesn't mean they have a huge history at all. Donkey Kong 64 did more for the collectathon games too, as it actually made 100% completion far more notable, but the fact it went above 100%. B&K improved the formula, but it's not like it was a heavily repeated formula.

When it comes to Rare themselves, their biggest 3 franchises are/were(when it comes being the most memorable and notable in gaming as a whole) Battletoads(they were huge definers of the Beat 'Em Up genre, although you wouldn't be surprised in how people forget exactly how they affected it. Killer Instinct is another case where people forget what it did. It defined Announcer Chatter, Combos(Street Fighter II just had them as a glitch, but it didn't get combos officially as a game mechanic till after KI defined it) and the now widely used Combo Breaker. And then there's what they did for Donkey Kong Country, making it the biggest collectathon series overall.

Here's the thing. I was so tired I forgot this wasn't a discord server I'm in, and me bashing Banjo is a running gag there.


Because the games are bad you see