Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

What is the poll from?

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/..._results_the_smash_bros_dlc_reddit_survey_is/

This one.

Over 13,000 unique individuals voted.

 

[Enchess]

I didn't even know Isaac got such a sudden boom recently

Is Isaac support even as strong as it was during previous games? It feels like it's fading after a decade of steady support, not getting a sudden boom

 

[N3ON]

Bar K.Rool, bar Flying Man, bar Black Knight even? There's quite a bit with not easily accessible assets

Flying Man was originally 3d on Magicant, but Sakurai replaced it with the sprite version. Those assets were pre-existing. Frankly I'm going to guess Black Knight's were somehow as well considering he's not popular enough to be the only exception bar K. Rool. Lol, sorry Black Knight fans.

 

[Wambo]

Over 13,000 unique individuals voted.

"Unique individuals"

Oh they're unique alright.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I'm telling you that Geno popularity died down between Brawl and DLC. Literally the guy who's been running the Geno thread for years echoed the sentiment. It's never been nothing, but there was a while it certainly wasn't close to the top.


The context of my original point has nothing to do with Geno.

Idk I just remember it always being Geno, K. Rool, Ridely. Those were the ones people didn't just want to happen but thought could happen. (EDIT: This is beside the likes of Cloud, Sora, Dark Samus, but so many from back then actually made it now that I think about it so the only one left really are those three) After Brawl, Isaac exploded because now they knew he was on Sakurai's radar, but he never overtook Geno.

But then again I wasn't around for that. If Geno's support really did weaken during the ballot period, then this is all irrelevant, because the ballot results are what they're gonna be looking at.

 

[Will]

"Unique individuals"

Oh they're unique alright.

Did you just indirectly insult 13,000 people? Please don't end up being this arrogant broski.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"Unique individuals"

Oh they're unique alright.

Why are you insulting voters?

 

[Noipoi]

"Unique individuals"

Oh they're unique alright.

...
Dude. we get it, you really really want Geno. You don't gotta insult people.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The funny thing is that since Wambo didn't read, he just insulted all the people that voted FOR Geno.

Seriously dude, come off it.

 

[Wambo]

Why are you insulting voters?

I'm sorry, voters. I didn't realize all of you could hear me.

 

[StupendousMike]

Then it turns out my girl Roll will take the Megaman echo slot.

Makes more sense than most people realize. Unlike Protoman and Bass, she's been in some real fighting games, and was even already Mega Man's "echo fighter" in one of them.

 

[Wambo]

The funny thing is that since Wambo didn't read, he just insulted all the people that voted FOR Geno.

Seriously dude, come off it.

Dude I was kidding, get off your rock.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Come one guys he meant unique individuals like how there are unique fighters. They aren't clones or echos! They're their own people! It was a compliment really.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm sorry, voters. I didn't realize all of you could hear me.

Wambo.

Don't be the next memoryman.

 

[N3ON]

Idk I just remember it always being Geno, K. Rool, Ridely. Those were the ones people didn't just want to happen but thought could happen. After Brawl, Isaac exploded because now they knew he was on Sakurai's radar, but he never overtook Geno.

But then again I wasn't around for that. If Geno's support really did weaken during the ballot period, then this is all irrelevant, because the ballot results are what they're gonna be looking at.

Idk we've just posted like five polls in which Isaac overtook Geno. I can guarantee you in 2009-11 when Dark Dawn was fresh Isaac was more popular than Geno, not that that time period is heavily accounted for or meaningful in speculation. Geno has also spent a lot of time more popular than Isaac, such as Brawl and now. And I think he's likelier. But during Smash 4 it would've been Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac over Ridley, K. Rool, Geno.

Though fwiw I'm not sure how much Isaac counts if you have to eliminate like three or four contenders before he gets to join those ranks. Really the "Elite 4" of Smash 4 were Ridley, K. Rool, Little Mac, and Mega Man. Palutena would've been next, and if you count cut characters, Mewtwo eclipsed most of the aforementioned. However if you're talking about the ballot era, I do think Isaac was one of the higher contenders - without need of caveats or asterisks.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Makes more sense than most people realize. Unlike Protoman and Bass, she's been in some real fighting games, and was even already Mega Man's "echo fighter" in one of them.

Now you made me think of Mahvel and now I wanna see a Sevbot running around smash

 

[Enchess]

Isaac is the main character of a game that spawned two sequels and was legit pretty popular when it was still relevant. A lot of people have nostalgia for it and it introduced a lot of people to the RPG genre using the same beginner friendly approach Pokemon did.

It shouldn't be viewed as so strange that he might be a popular request. It'd legitimately be weirder if outside the Smash echo chamber Geno was more popular.

 

[Mutsukki]

Dude I was kidding, get off your rock.

To be fair, this whole thread you've been giving more "rabid fanboy vibes" and douchey vibes ones than "jokey" ones, so it's hard to read your tone.

Isaac is the main character of a game that spawned two sequels and was legit pretty popular when it was still relevant. A lot of people have nostalgia for it and it introduced a lot of people to the RPG genre using the same beginner friendly approach Pokemon did.

It shouldn't be viewed as so strange that he might be a popular request. It'd legitimately be weirder if outside the Smash echo chamber Geno was more popular.

Woah, no way. There are certainly plenty more people who played or cared about Super Mario RPG than Golden Sun, no doubt. If anything it's the exact opposite, the Smash echochamber is where Isaac really thrives.

 

[Will]

Dude I was kidding, get off your rock.

Don't play the "I was just pretending" game and act all cool off it, you're ****ing spitting on Geno and his supporters' dignity by acting like that. The same **** happened with Waluigi, don't pull that kinda punch.

 

[Arcanir]

I don't think the rifle is for Geno personally. The way he uses it is more akin to how Samus or Mii Gunner uses their weapons, it's shot directly from the arm like a cannon or the aforementioned gatling gun and doesn't really have the same visual and functional similarities that would require buying the figure for. Additionally, the referential sources for both of those characters could also serve as a way to see how the character would function with the weapon since they do already carry similarities between them.

Personally, if the rifle is for any character (assuming it's not an AT), it would be Mach Rider, Elma/Cross, or Ray (Custom Robo) as all three either use or heavily draw from that type of weapon and don't have characters that can serve as a referential source for them.

Dark Samus' theme would be a very strange omission. Unless there's some weird legal issue keeping them from using it I don't see why it'd be excluded.

I honestly would really like to know why it's been missing for so long. It's not like it's an unimportant track from the Prime series, it's associated with its main antagonist, so it's current omission is pretty baffling considering the series has had no problem getting the other villains at least one theme for them such as Gangplank Galleon and Ridley's theme.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

View attachment 157229
Don't play the "I was just pretending" game and act all cool off it, you're ****ing spitting on Geno and his supporters' dignity by acting like that. The same **** happened with Waluigi, don't pull that kinda punch.

On an unrelated note.

Thank you for giving me this amazing picture.

 

[Noipoi]

I always heard that Ridley, K Rool, and Geno were the "Big 3" so to speak. But I wasn't here for Brawl or Smash 4 so I really wouldn't know.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Whenever I see the "Geno vs. Isaac" debate, it seems to me like people always politely nod at the Isaac supporters and shrug them off.

I'm #TeamNoMoreAnimeCharacters.

You're literally just making up a new trio that includes Isaac. The trio of seemingly unrealizable characters was always Ridley/K.Rool/Geno. It's been like that since the Brawl days.

Not to barge in unannounced but you're letting your bias HEAVILY cloud your judgement. If anything Geno and Isaac have always been on even ground but looking back at the past Geno has been in and out of the public eye MULTIPLE times. Pre-Brawl he was a dark horse, then when Smash 4 picked up people jumped on board but then dropped him after Mega Man was announced (which was weird), then DLC happened and he got a bit of a boost, then Cloud and his Costume were revealed and it dropped DRAMATICALLY, now we're at a point where he's actually considered likely due to that costume. Geno has been a roller coaster ride of ups and downs. Isaac, on the other hand has stayed steadily popular, and even now is one of the more popular picks alongside Geno.

You don't hear a lot about Isaac anymore because the fanbase has barely been thrown a bone with music tracks in 4. Geno got a costume so of course they're going to be louder. Isaac has always been popular. Geno has wavered a lot. Not that that's a bad thing. All it takes is one recognition from Sakurai that he's wanted and boom he's in.

Look, my point is, you're hating on Isaac because he's often compared to Geno in popularity, and maybe you see that as competition for Geno but in actuality neither of them are in competition with the other. We'll see how it all pans out but hating on a character is just not cool. I love Geno but you know what if I had to choose between the two I'd pick Isaac. Just because he feels like he's a Nintendo character that should've happened a long time ago.

Bandana Dee is a whole 'nother can of worms, like, I'm not even gonna try to analyze him.

 

[Noipoi]

Dude I was kidding, get off your rock.

"It's just a prank bro!"
yeah sure...

 

[Enchess]

Woah, no way. There are certainly plenty more people who played or cared about Super Mario RPG than Golden Sun, no doubt. If anything it's the exact opposite, the Smash echochamber is where Isaac really thrives.

VGCharts (I know it's not totally accurate) gives 2.14 mil for Mario RPG and 1.76 mil for Golden Sun. That's not a huge difference and Golden Sun has the advantage of recency and sequels. Plus Geno isnt the equivalent of Isaac, he's the equivalent of Mia. You can't say Barret is more popular than Terra because FFVII is more popular than FFVI.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So I did that Smash Bros Wishes thing.

Spoiler

 

[Wambo]

To be fair, this whole thread you've been giving more "rabid fanboy vibes" and douchey vibes ones than "jokey" ones, so it's hard to read your tone.

I apologize for my poorly constructed comments. They were intended to be humorous.

View attachment 157229
Don't play the "I was just pretending" game and act all cool off it, you're ****ing spitting on Geno and his supporters' dignity by acting like that. The same **** happened with Waluigi, don't pull that kinda punch.

I'm not playing a "game", and why do you care if I meant it as an insult? You're making it a bigger deal than it actually was. Seems to me like you're just trying to find ways to white knight for people and play internet hero.

You know what, you're right. What I said was totally comparable to "Sakurai did Waluigi-11" memes.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I always heard that Ridley, K Rool, and Geno were the "Big 3" so to speak. But I wasn't here for Brawl or Smash 4 so I really wouldn't know.

King K Rool wasn't actually that big in Brawl.

For example, go to the Brawl character section and sort by replies, K Rool doesn't show up on the first page.

 

[Will]

You're making it a bigger deal than it actually was. Seems to me like you're just trying to find ways to white knight for people and play internet hero.

I used to moderate a lot of wikis, I get that a lot.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I always heard that Ridley, K Rool, and Geno were the "Big 3" so to speak. But I wasn't here for Brawl or Smash 4 so I really wouldn't know.

I called them the big three now, but in my experience it's more just their presence on wishlist's and speculation became so stereotypical that it became comedic. They weren't necessarily lumped together though, they've just always been present. This was among other contenders though as N3ON points out, some of which overshadowed all three.


However, like I said. All that's irrelevant. Sakurai wasn't browsing Smashboards in 08 and is only picking the requests he saw now. Whoever got far in the Smash ballot is who I believe is being looked at. If that means Isaac, then that means Isaac

 

[N3ON]

Woah, no way. There are certainly plenty more people who played or cared about Super Mario RPG than Golden Sun, no doubt. If anything it's the exact opposite, the Smash echochamber is where Isaac really thrives.

How could a (basically) one-off supporting character from a 20+ year old game thrive outside an echo chamber? Geno's popularity was literally formed inside the recesses of the diehard Smash fanbase. Isaac's came from outside, he was the protagonist of a successful IP, and now all that's left is what bangs around the echo chamber.

 

[Dee Dude]

....To be honest, I never saw a “trio”.

Ridley and K.Rool were more of a duo than anything.

-Scaly reptilian villains of pre-existing franchises who were the highest requested characters of all time since Melee/Brawl.

No way anyone else on their level and criteria lol, even Geno wasn’t that close to their demands imo.

 

[Enchess]

....To be honest, I never saw a “trio”.

Ridley and K.Rool were more of a duo than anything.

-Scaly reptiles
-Villians
-Highest requested characters of all time since Melee/Brawl.

No way anyone else on their level and criteria lol, even Geno wasn’t that close to their demands.

Yeah, not gonna sit here and pretend Isaac was anywhere near that level of popularity either.

 

[Will]

On the prospect of DLC: Do you think Echo Fighter DLC (if it happens) will cost less than unique fighter DLC or all-around the same? I talked to a friend about the thought and he didn't know what would be best.

 

[Wambo]

I used to moderate a lot of wikis, I get that a lot.

So what you're saying is that you overreacted to things a lot and that's why you don't moderate anymore?

 

[Idon]

On the prospect of DLC: Do you think Echo Fighter DLC (if it happens) will cost less than unique fighter DLC or all-around the same? I talked to a friend about the thought and he didn't know what would be best.

It would feel really ****ty to pay the same amount for Dark Pit as opposed to someone like Cloud.
Regardless, I could see Nintendo doing it, because Nintendo knows people are going to just buy it anyways.

 

[Dee Dude]

On the prospect of DLC: Do you think Echo Fighter DLC (if it happens) will cost less than unique fighter DLC or all-around the same? I talked to a friend about the thought and he didn't know what would be best.

How about they don’t cost at all? No way people are wasting their money on easy developed clones.

If they pad the roster out, then it makes perfect sense to be free downloads.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So what you're saying is that you overreacted to things a lot and that's why you don't moderate anymore?

He was being sarcastic, sir.

 

[PSIGuy]

There's no shortage of franchises that were popular in their heyday but never got Smash representation before they fizzled out. Advance Wars was another. I wouldn't mind seeing all these Brawl-era IPs get in Smash Ultimate as playable honestly, new franchises are always great and bring a lot with them. I don't know how well that gels with the 103 stage total, though. Andy having to share the Coliseum would be awkward.

 

[Will]

So what you're saying is that you overreacted to things a lot and that's why you don't moderate anymore?

No. I just have a really big vocabulary and if I use big boy words or go really into detail it makes things seem bigger than it looks. I kinda learned up from people I "worked" with. I just don't do it anymore because I got sick of doing the same thing on and on.