Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

I'd love to see that whole list. Also, Semisear deserves dead last lmao

Where was Gothitelle?

Well, lucky for me Serebii tweeted out the results when it happened two years ago.
Top 100
101-519
520-720

 

[DarkFalcon]

Metroid's got 25 tracks, up from 17 from Smash 4. If Dark Samus' theme isn't in there I don't understand anything. I saw a Samus Returns track in there. Area 1-5 Torrid Zone. Is that Lower Norfair/Magmoor Caverns???

 

[Kuon]

I think it's funny that everyone is predicting the upcoming 3rd party characters (if we get any) to be from American franchises, even though every playable character in Smash is from Japanese franchises. Shadow makes sense to be a 3rd party playable character and so does Lloyd from Tales of and Heihachi from Tekken, but not Banjo and Kazooie, Crash, or Steve from Minecraft. But that's just my opinion. I don't think we'll get any American franchise reps as playable characters in this game.

Well you're about ten years too late to find anyone who'll argue against you.

lol that is true

 

[DarkFalcon]

I think it's funny that everyone is predicting the upcoming 3rd party characters (if we get any) to be from American franchises, even though every playable character in Smash is from Japanese franchises. Shadow makes sense to be a 3rd party playable character and so does Lloyd from Tales of and Heihachi from Tekken, but not Banjo and Kazooie, Crash, or Steve from Minecraft. But that's just my opinion. I don't think we'll get any American franchise reps as playable characters in this game.

Dark Samus is the first American made character in Smash. There's no rule saying it can't happen. Don't put those random barriers up.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

This would be amazing. Unfortunately I'm not sure how realistic it is due to technical challenges

We have Ditto though.

 

[MBRedboy31]

This would be amazing. Unfortunately I'm not sure how realistic it is due to technical challenges

The Ditto Pokeball effectively adds an additional character to the fight, so it could work as long as the game is strict about how many cherry clones and Ditto it allows to exist at the same time.

 

[Chandeelure]

8-Player Smash Ice Climbers Ditto Double Cherry.

On Wii Fit Studio with the mirror reflections.

 

[MainJPW]

Spoiler: Ristar

For that one guy, you know who you are.

I’d probably style it after his Japanese artwork by his original designer Naoto Oshima:

Spoiler

But it’s still great. Ristar is the ****ing **** and deserves more love.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Unfortunately, that argument doesn't work in this case. Ivysaur was added due to Sakurai wanting to represent the three stages of evolution through the trainer, and Gen 1 has a special excuse to be included in Brawl - nostalgia. All three of the original starters are essentially household names for most of Smash's audience, and ergo, Ivysaur isn't a "random lol off the wall" pick. One of the Bulbasaur line would've been included on the Trainer regardless. Same for Squirtle and Charmander's lines.

As I said:

"he made Ivysaur a playable character in Brawl when gen 1 wasn't the relevant gen and when it's not remotely a popular pokemon nor ever thought of by anyone as a Smash-viable character, yet chose it because it fitted a theme he was going for (a Pokemon Trainer character that only used gen 1 starters and had three pokemon that were each in different stagees of evolution, and it just happened to be the line that was left with a middle evolution slot)."

Ivysaur was a very lucky inclusion and seemingly random on its own that no one would ever be taking seriously as a Smash character if it wasn't made playable in Brawl, but made it in because it fit a preconceived idea of Sakurai's. This would be like how the Gothielle Echo could happen, where Sakurai wants to add playable representation for both gen 3 and 5, and thus needs a popular unique pokemon from one of those gens that people would like as a Smash character while having an Echo in the opposite gen that could feasibly work.

 

[Enchess]

We have Ditto though.

Fair point, but isn't there a limit on number of Pokeballs allowed to be a active at once (3, right?)? Although now that I'm mentioning it, there's nothing stopping them from just doing the same with Double Cherry.

Objection retracted I suppose.

EDIT: Semi-'d

 

[WertQuadNine]

Well, lucky for me Serebii tweeted out the results when it happened two years ago.
Top 100
101-519
520-720

Huh this is interesting, thanks for sharing.
A lot of gen 5 love, which is really surprising since that's usually the most hated in america.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

We know 8-Player Smash runs now on all stages. But I just wonder how smoothly? Based on the footage we saw, the fact that Big Blue appears to not slow down when doing an 8-Player Smash and Lylat Cruise has full effects going on, I imagine the Switch can handle a lot more than the Wii U ever could. I want to see 8-Player Smash on Wily’s Castle while Yellow Devil is there lol.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I actually just remembered... there was that official Pokémon popularity poll a while ago (the "Pokémon General Election 720", the Japanese Popularity poll where Simisear got dead last).

Greninja was #1
Pikachu was #4
Charizard was #9
Mewtwo was #11
Lucario was #15
Jigglypuff was #49
Pichu was #69
Squirtle and Ivysaur didn't make the top 100.

Genesect was #5, Meloetta was #10, Eevee was #12, Gengar was #35. Gardevoir was #38, Blaziken was #45, Sceptile was #61, Meowth was #82.

I'm just gonna bold Pichu's, laugh over that, and think about the rest of this.

Also brb, gonna take a hard look at some of those polls.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Where was Gothitelle?

458 out of 720.

 

[KMDP]

I'm just gonna bold Pichu's, laugh over that, and think about the rest of this.

Also brb, gonna take a hard look at some of those polls.

I think the fact that Jigglypuff was the 49th most popular Pokémon in Japan during the end of Gen VI is very interesting. Considering how we say Jiggs is irrelevant and unpopular when talking about Smash.

 

[Kuon]

Dark Samus is the first American made character in Smash. There's no rule saying it can't happen. Don't put those random barriers up.

I thought Diddy Kong was the first American-made character. But I'm talking about American franchises, not American-made characters. Even though Dark Samus is made by an American, Metroid is still a Japanese franchise, right?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead.

 

[Wambo]

Dark Samus is the first American made character in Smash.

Diddy Kong would like a word with you.

 

[KingBroly]

I thought Diddy Kong was the first American-made character. But I'm talking about American franchises, not American-made characters. Even though Dark Samus is made by an American, Metroid is still a Japanese franchise, right?

Diddy is the first non-Japanese character. Dark Samus is second. K Rool is third.

 

[Noipoi]

458 out of 720.

Clearly an incredibly popular Pokemon, put that thing in Smash right away!
Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario and Greninja? WHO CARES? We've got Gothitelle!

 

[CannonStreak]

Diddy Kong would like a word with you.

I believe he was made by a British company.

 

[MainJPW]

Diddy Kong would like a word with you.

Diddy is British.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I thought Diddy Kong was the first American-made character. But I'm talking about American franchises, not American-made characters. Even though Dark Samus is made by an American, Metroid is still a Japanese franchise, right?

Diddy I think is technically UK? Same with K. Rool as that's where Rare was I believe. Shovel Knight just got represented in Smash as an Assist. An Indie character made it in Smash. Banjo would be UK too since Rare made em as well. Nintendo is a Japanese company, so of course almost all of the characters would have originated from Japan.

 

[KMDP]

I thought Diddy Kong was the first American-made character. But I'm talking about American franchises, not American-made characters. Even though Dark Samus is made by an American, Metroid is still a Japanese franchise, right?

Diddy Kong would like a word with you.

Diddy Kong (also K. Rool) is a British creation (Rare is a British Game Development company).

 

[Kuon]

Diddy is the first non-Japanese character. Dark Samus is second. K Rool is third.

That's pretty cool. But all the playable characters are from Japanese franchises, and I don't think that's going to change for a while

 

[Noipoi]

Diddy Kong would like a word with you.

Diddy's a brit, mate.

 

[Enchess]

Diddy is the first non-Japanese character. Dark Samus is second. K Rool is third.

Just to be a contrarian, wasn't Diddy supposed to be DK Jr when he was conceived? So he's more of a soft-reboot of a Japanese character (but really Diddy is from Rare which is from UK, so saying Dark Samus is first American character is correct)

 

[Capybara Gaming]

As I said:

"he made Ivysaur a playable character in Brawl when gen 1 wasn't the relevant gen and when it's not remotely a popular pokemon nor ever thought of by anyone as a Smash-viable character, yet chose it because it fitted a theme he was going for (a Pokemon Trainer character that only used gen 1 starters and had three pokemon that were each in different stagees of evolution, and it just happened to be the line that was left with a middle evolution slot)."

Ivysaur was a very lucky inclusion and seemingly random on its own that no one would ever be taking seriously as a Smash character if it wasn't made playable in Brawl, but made it in because it fit a preconceived idea of Sakurai's. This would be like how the Gothielle Echo could happen, where Sakurai wants to add playable representation for both gen 3 and 5, and thus needs a popular unique pokemon from one of those gens that people would like as a Smash character while having an Echo in the opposite gen that could feasibly work.

You're missing the key points here.

1. Generation 1 has the nostalgia factor. Everyone and their mother can know and recognize the original 151.
2. It actually FIT a theme.
3. Starters are ALWAYS important and markettable. They're the first 'mon you see, damnit.

Ivysaur maybe a "lucky" inclusion, but at least from a marketting standpoint, it makes sense. I doubt most people even remember the highly-forgettable Gothita line even exists, let alone likes it. The only reason I, your above-average Nintendo fan, knows what it is is from a damn spinoff designed to highlight some of the less popular 'mon in the first place, designed during the time Gen 5 was relevant. And Gen 5 is one of the most popular gens in Japan! And even then, Gothitelle didn't make it into the Top FOUR HUNDRED.

 

[NintenRob]

Do we know how most Japanese Smash fans reacted to the direct? Especially Dark Samus

 

[Wambo]

I tried to make a funny, but it turns out, I was the funny all along...

 

[KingBroly]

Just to be a contrarian, wasn't Diddy supposed to be DK Jr when he was conceived? So he's more of a soft-reboot of a Japanese character (but really Diddy is from Rare which is from UK, so saying Dark Samus is first American character is correct)

I have absolutely no idea if he was or not. All I know is that Cranky Kong is old DK and current DK (old DK Jr.) has a picture of his old man in all of his 8-bit glory in his House in the trailer.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think it's funny that everyone is predicting the upcoming 3rd party characters (if we get any) to be from American franchises, even though every playable character in Smash is from Japanese franchises. Shadow makes sense to be a 3rd party playable character and so does Lloyd from Tales of and Heihachi from Tekken, but not Banjo and Kazooie, Crash, or Steve from Minecraft. But that's just my opinion. I don't think we'll get any American franchise reps as playable characters in this game.

Dark Samus is the first American made character in Smash. There's no rule saying it can't happen. Don't put those random barriers up.

To be fair, Sakurai has made a statement about third-parties:

Final Fantasy (FF below) is one of the few uniquely Japanese game series revered by players around the world. I think fans across the globe have hoped a character from one of those series would appear in Smash, so it was only a matter of time. At the same time, there are only so many big-name titles we can work with at this point—mainly because we’ve covered most of those bases. Aside from the major globally-recognized franchises already featured in Smash, there really aren’t that many left.

There is some basis for the statement as it pertains to third party characters.

I tried to make a funny, but it turns out, I was the funny all along...

Story of my life dude.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Do we know how most Japanese Smash fans reacted to the direct? Especially Dark Samus

I would guess they'd be like "oh, neat" with Dark Samus. Metroid isn't that big over there and I think the Prime series even less so.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Clearly an incredibly popular Pokemon, put that thing in Smash right away!
Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario and Greninja? WHO CARES? We've got Gothitelle!

It took a hell of a lot of digging to find. Only reason I even spotted it was because of Exeggutor and Mr. Mime being close to it.

 

[CannonStreak]

I have absolutely no idea if he was or not. All I know is that Cranky Kong is old DK and current DK (old DK Jr.) has a picture of his old man in all of his 8-bit glory in his House in the trailer.

Current DK being DK Jr? Isn't he like the third DK?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I mean, Cloud's there. The ball's already there, and Nintendo would have to pay for any character licenses anyway, so I don't see what the problem is... it's Final Fantasy, everything this franchise touches is guaranteed to sell anyway.

Even though Cloud is still there, FF only has two songs for their only stage compared to the other 3rd parties having 10+ songs and two stages (only for the case of Sanic and possibly/hopefully Pac-Man). Either SE is wanting more payment for extra songs in Smash, there’s copyright issues, or they only think two songs are all that’s needed)

 

[Kuon]

To be fair, Sakurai has made a statement about third-parties:

There is some basis for the statement as it pertains to third party characters.


Story of my life dude.

So he's saying they're running out of big franchises and may have to start using characters from smaller franchises as playable in the future?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

A poll over Pokemon popularity voting among 720 Pokemon will really depend on the voting mechanisms. If you asked everyone "name your favorite Pokemon" then surely the bottom rankings would all be really obscure so someone like Simisear is logical. If you asked instead "rank the Pokemon from your favorite to least favorite" then surely the bottom would be stacked with Pokemon who are more specifically disliked (like Garbador). Even a question like "name your top 5 favorite Pokemon" will produce a VERY different list than "name your single favorite Pokemon".

I'm also going to throw out that your methodology is obviously really flawed if it suggests Genesect is more popular than Charizard. It just... obviously isn't. I mean if you just go out on the street and start asking people about Charizard and Genesect you'll get lots of random responses favorable to Charizard and Genesect will be universally met with "what is that?". You'd have to only ask really hardcore Pokemon fans to even get to the point where the average poll respondent knows what a Genesect is and then you'd have to have some strangely self selected crowd that values an obscure legendary that you can't even catch in any game to one of the main series icons like Charizard who was also probably the final form of about half of the oldest Pokemon fan's first Pokemon...

Of course there's some adjustment for every poll respondent being Japanese which will do something. Events actually happen in Japan so Pokemon like Genesect might be perceived to exist unlike here in America where without a doubt the event Pokemon are just the single lowest tier of importance (because you can't really go and get them other than online haggling for one you know good and well is probably hacked), and I dunno maybe Japanese culture would be embarrassed to vote in the poll if the individual voter didn't know what most of the Pokemon were so you have a huge bias toward hardcore Pokemon fans? I still find that poll really lacking in credibility for this data point alone though...

 

[DarkFalcon]

There is some basis for the statement as it pertains to third party characters.

I didn't really see anything in that quote that told me no non Japanese third parties?

 

[AEMehr]

Objectively speaking you could argue K. Rool is the first completely unique character added to Smash in a playable format that was created outside of Japan because Diddy was technically DK Jr. originally and Dark Samus is literally just evil Samus.