Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

I want to see more characters born in this century, a third party in particular would be cool. Though, we already got Bayonetta from the ballot, so probably not happening.

Yeah, same. I'm glad so many iconic classic characters are getting in, but if we didn't get anyone more recent like a Gen 7 Pokemon or Xenoblade or even
Rhythm Heaven i'd be a little disappointed. It's all about striking that balance of new and old.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sorry to burst your bubble but

Hey, cut that out. Don't ya know it's rude to burst someone's butt, bubble or otherwise.

 

[Shroob]

I'll say about the Neogaf leak:

A Monster Hunter pc does honestly make sense, though was this before or after Rathalos got shown off?

Galacta Knight is a bit of a hard pill to swallow when we've seen that Meta Knight has a Galacta color which almost makes him identical. I really feel like this would affect readability, honestly.

I know **** about Final Fantasy, but who's Terra? If we're getting a 2nd Final Fantasy rep, especially if she's an older character, they better DAMN well put more music into this game from FF.

Prince Sable IS MIA, though that's an odd one. He wouldn't 'really' need a stage I guess, and his music could go into 'other'.

Isaac and Felix without a stage and OST of their own is a bit of a hard pill to swallow tbh.

The other Echoes feel incredibly safe and are what most people assume we'll get anyway.

 

[Noipoi]

Sorry to burst your bubble but

When Ms. Pacman joins the battle, Alfonzo stands in the back doing nothing!
Alfonzo: Leave it to me!

 

[Nethermoosen]

I wish they would remove the free fall animation altogether. I feel it’s not really a necessary mechanic. Sonic gets a free up b. ROB gets a free up b. Mega man, Bayonetta.

I just think it’s weird that most characters are locked out after using up specials because it isn’t worth the risk of free fall, while some others just have full benefit and lack a free fall animation altogether.

Edit: Sonic and Bayonetta are especially advantageous because of this. Sonic alone has 8 different attacks he can use in tandem with his up special at no greater risk for whiffing.

 

[osby]

Yeah, same. I'm glad so many iconic classic characters are getting in, but if we didn't get anyone more recent like a Gen 7 Pokemon or Xenoblade or even
Rhythm Heaven i'd be a little disappointed. It's all about striking that balance of new and old.

Well, they are younger than Wii, so they are obviously just flavor of the month picks, who aren't wanted by fans that matter and will be forgotten in twenty years, no reason adding them.

 

[Curious Villager]

I want to see more characters born in this century, a third party in particular would be cool. Though, we already got Bayonetta from the ballot, so probably not happening.

Yeah I'd like to see some more modern third parties born from the beginning 2000 era as well. (Or even Nintendo characters like Isaac for that matter)
At the very least give them some nods like they did with Shovel Knight and Monster Hunter.

 

[Will]

When Ms. Pacman joins the battle, Alfonzo stands in the back doing nothing!
Alfonzo: Leave it to me!

I beg your pardon? That's Ms. Alfonzo to you!

 

[NeonBurrito]

Galacta Knight is a bit of a hard pill to swallow when we've seen that Meta Knight has a Galacta color which almost makes him identical. I really feel like this would affect readability, honestly.

I mean, if they're echoes, I don't think it'd really matter a whole ton. Plus, Galacta Knight has a shield, a lance, and angel wings, whereas Meta Knight has no shield, a sword, and bat wings. I don't think it would be big of an issue, were Galacta Knight to be in.

I know **** about Final Fantasy, but who's Terra? If we're getting a 2nd Final Fantasy rep, especially if she's an older character, they better DAMN well put more music into this game from FF.

The "representative" character from Final Fantasy VI. FFVI technically has no main character, but Terra is the go to when it comes to representing that game. She was briefly considered to be the FF character for Smash, but wasn't chosen over Cloud.

 

[Idon]

I'll say about the Neogaf leak:

A Monster Hunter pc does honestly make sense, though was this before or after Rathalos got shown off?

Galacta Knight is a bit of a hard pill to swallow when we've seen that Meta Knight has a Galacta color which almost makes him identical. I really feel like this would affect readability, honestly.

I know **** about Final Fantasy, but who's Terra? If we're getting a 2nd Final Fantasy rep, especially if she's an older character, they better DAMN well put more music into this game from FF.

Prince Sable IS MIA, though that's an odd one. He wouldn't 'really' need a stage I guess, and his music could go into 'other'.

Isaac and Felix without a stage and OST of their own is a bit of a hard pill to swallow tbh.

The other Echoes feel incredibly safe and are what most people assume we'll get anyway.

Terra's the FF6 protagonist and a very beloved one at that. Many fans like her and the game she came from, at least, the ones that have played her game instead of just starting at FF7. She's the last protagonist to be Nintendo only and the first one (iirc) to be female. She's basically another magic swordswoman, but she looks pretty cool doing it.
At least here anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCKSsABARmA

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Alright I'm going to make my last prediction for Smash Ultimate's base speculation, so here we go.

I think Geno, Bandana Dee, Isabelle and Isaac are in and I think they're the last newcomers. I think there will NOT be a new Gen 7 Pokemon unless it is an echo (I dunno who tbh), I will stand by this until Vergeben tells us exactly who it is, and even then may still not be fully on board. If there IS a Gen 7 Newcomer who isn't an echo I think the character will be Buzzwole so to stress the importance of Ultra Beasts in Gen 7. So, no Decidueye or Incenaroar, even though I would love both but I wouldn't be disappointed in Buzzwole either. I think "Spirits" isn't the real name of that mode and is just straw grasping. I think Target and Board the Platforms are back. I think Story Mode is real and it'll be MORE ambitious than Brawl's. Now for post release. I think Echoes will be added into the game frequently post release for cheaper than a regular newcomer, which is usually $5.99 or $6.99 if they get a stage. I think Nintendo will announce they're first bit of Smash DLC at The Game Awards on December the 6th. A day before the game is released and I think it'll be a Third Party character announcement that will blow that crowd away, maybe Doom Slayer. I think this will make people even more excited for the game and its future.

So, here's the thing. I've kind of lost my drive to speculate, and not in a bad way. So far I've gotten everything I've wanted and more. Snake, Wolf, Simon, Ridley, K. Rool with only a few outlying disappointments like Takamaru or Ashley. All that on top of seeing people like Opossum 's Extraordinary League of Chrom Supporters, the Space Pirates, the Kutthroats, and the incredibly loud Daisy fanbase get exactly what they want has made me happy to see them happy. A lot of people are psyched for this game. And I just don't NEED anymore. Don't get me wrong if Isaac and Geno DO happen I'm going to be exstatic and over the moon and even more happy with this game. But this is the first Smash where I've seen so many people happy with a Smash game. There's usually more negatives than positives. I'm still going to speculate, I love it enough, but I won't be as passionate as I've been before, but if my predictions come true you can be damn sure my excitement will grow even more.

Everyone is Here, Everyone is Happy

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Are you able to copypaste the NeoGaf instead of putting into a quote box? I can't seem to open up the quote box to see the rest of the leaks

Sure. I've included the original and the supposed followup in separate text boxes. This will also be somewhat of an analysis of this supposed leak as it's actually kind of interesting.

There are two parts to this "leak," an original and a supposed followup which adds information.

Spoiler: Original

I might delete this post soon since I don't want to cause the source I got this information from any trouble though I can't help it to share this information out of curiosity, even if it won't stay here for too long.

Here is some basic information that I've got:

- The Fire Emblem Series won't receive any newcomers but 2 who are based on existing fighters
- The Legend of Zelda Series won't receive any newcomers
- The Pokemon Series won't receive any newcomers
- Something about an addition to Cloud was mentioned, though I don't know for now if it's gonna be another Final Fantasy character or some other Square Enix character

There are gonna be 12 newcomers in total from which 5 of them are going to be based on other fighters.

For the new ones I only got information on 3 characters who should appear in this title:

- Simon Belmont
- King K. Rool
- Isaac
- X
- X
- X
- X

As for the 5 who are based on other fighters I could also just get the name of 3 of them:

- Chrom based on Roy (appearently with other effects than flames?)
- Soren (I don't know about any changes but he willl be based on Robin)
- Ken ( Based on Ryu with Flame effects)
- X
- X

Some of those will be announced very soon.

Take it or leave it I don't care, I will delete this post soon anyways.

Spoiler: Supposed Follow-Up

Hello again everyone.
I wanted to share the missing information with you all that I got for the game's final characters.

2 out of the 7 newcomers are already confirmed and here are the final ones.

- K Rool (already confirmed)
- Simon Belmont (already confirmed)
- Isaac (is on his way)
- Monster Hunter (is still in development which is the reason why he wasn't confirmed today)
- Terra from the Final Fantasy Series
- Another Bandai Namco character
- Prince Sable from "For the Frog the Bell Tolls"

Coming to the Echo Fighter there are people who didn't understand the system behind my information. The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus und Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being. And I didn't include characters like Inkling,Ridley and Daisy since they were already officially confirmed at that point. Since people doubted it I only wanted to share information again when some of the characters I called were finally confirmed.
There will be no more "X" this time since I wanted to make sure that everyone is named.

With that said there will indeed be more Echo Fighters than I anticipated before.

- Chrom based on Roy (already confirmed)
- Soren based on Robin (still on his way)
- Dark Samus based on Samus (already confirmed)
- Richter based on Simon (already confirmed)
- Ken based on Ryu (still on his way)
- Shadow the Hedgehog based on Sonic (still on his way)
- Felix based on Isaac(will be revealed together with Isaac like Simon was with Richter)
- Isabelle based on Villager (still on her way)
- Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight (still on his way)

As for the Bandai Namco character, it's the only one left I don't know about. I will update it if I get my hands on that information.
That's it for the main roster. I don't know if there are any plans for DLC but since Super Smash Bros for the Wii U had DLC you can most likely expect it here as well.

This post will be deleted soon as well. And again, take it or leave it.

I'm also quoting @Sykin's post about the threads and accounts for reference.

If anyone is wondering, here's the thread: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/supe...te-updated-character-videos-and-more.1463068/

This page is actually archived already so we can see that the first post was indeed posted on NeoGAF http://web.archive.org/web/20180705...te-updated-character-videos-and-more.1463068/

If you scroll down and find the post you can click on his name and it'll take you to this link
https://www.neogaf.com/members/whisslblank.744020/

If we compare that to the new account that posted the second post, we'll see that the URL is different
https://www.neogaf.com/members/whisslblank.744939/

Lets list some facts:

Spoiler: Facts

• The original "leak" was posted by an account named Whisslbank around early July (July 3rd if I'm correct). It claims the following:
• 7 newcomers, 5 echoes
  • K. Rool
  • Simon
  • Isaac
  • 4 other newcomers
  • Chrom based on Roy, a claim unheard of at the time
  • Soren based on Robin
  • Ken based on Ryu
  • 2 other echoes
  • "Some of those will be revealed soon
• Soon after that, K. Rool, Simon, and Chrom as a Roy echo are revealed. Richter and Dark Samus fit into the two X's within the "leak"
• The account that posted the original does not exist anymore.
• Yesterday, after the Smash Direct, Whisslbank comes back and adds on to their "leak," claiming in addition to their previous leak:
  • Monster Hunter
  • Terra Branford
  • An unknown Bandai Namco Rep
  • Prince Sable
  • More echoes, and confirmation of the above italicized point: "The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus and Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being."
  • Shadow based on Sonic
  • Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight
  • Felix based on Isaac, to be revealed alongside him
  • Isabelle based on Villiager
  • Soren uses a "modified dagger" instead of the bronze sword
  • No info on DLC
• The second leak is posted by Whisslbank using a different account, as proven by @Sykin.

Lets take this a step further.

Trying to access Whisslbank's original account leads to this message: "The requested user could not be found." Obviously, this means that the account doesn't exist. NeoGAF accounts cannot be deleted by the user, and can only be affected by the moderation team. This means that the moderators of NeoGAF took action against Whisslbank's original account. Compare the error message to that of someone banned, and you get a slightly different message, being "This user's profile is not available." The account still exists, but cannot be seen by regular users, compared to the original account, which doesn't exist at all. Based off of this, we can infer that the moderators of NeoGAF deleted Whisslbanks's original account. Now, we need to think of why the moderators deleted Whisslbank's account.

• Did Whisslbank ask the moderators to delete their account, and we're noticing it just now?
• Did the moderators decide to delete the account due to supposed trolling?
• Or did they delete the account because the information Whisslbank "leaked" was actually true?

The first option is possible, but the moderators are known to take a very long time to delete accounts, if they ever actually do it. I'm hard pressed to believe this option, especially because Whisslbank came back to post again. The second option is even harder to believe, as the moderators simply ban users who troll, and only do so for egregious violations, like posting porn. Of course, it's possible that the moderation team doesn't take kindly to supposed leaks, but this would have to be a recent shift in policy as leaks have originated from and been discussed on NeoGAF for years now. That leaves the third option as the strongest in my opinion, as it's not hard to believe that a Nintendo employee caught wind of what Whisslbank said in their first "leak" and took immediate action to shut it down.

From there the next question is: Was Whisslbank guessing with their claims?

The claims that they made weren't exactly difficult. King K. Rool and Simon were the two most popular characters to appear in supposed leaks. Chrom as an echo fighter was popular speculation, but the fact that Whisslbank claimed Chrom would be an echo fighter of Roy instead of the widely speculated Ike stands out more.

Of course, this claim could just be trying to give the "leak" notoriety because it made a couple of odd claims (like Soren being an echo of Robin), or a smart inference that Chrom fights like Lucina, who fights like Marth, and would therefore be an echo of Roy as Marth already has Lucina as an echo fighter (that's a confusing explanation). If so, that's a smart guess. The next step I'd want to take is checking Soren or FE9/FE10's popularity in Japan. If it's sizable enough, then Soren might not be as odd of a claim as we think he is (we got Richter due to his popularity within his series, particularly in Japan).

I think this "leak" is worth watching, and I'm even upping it to a "Leak" of Interest.

Was NeoGaf leak posted after the direct? If so, I really don't think it's worth consideration (like the rest of these). Sounds interesting given that it's from GAF (and they really crack down on fake leaks there) which is why I'm intrigued.

I don't understand what they mean by 2 of 7 newcomers. We have 4 unique newcomers. And including echoes we have 8 newcomers. So what's the math???

This is an odd bookend, but I thought I'd address this as well:

"2 of 7" refers to the 2 out of 7 unique newcomers predicted within the supposed "leak." The leaker themselves said this as well:

I didn't include characters like Inkling,Ridley and Daisy since they were already officially confirmed at that point.

3, + the 3 that our "leaker" predicted (K. Rool, Simon, and Chrom as a Roy echo) + the two X's for echoes (supposedly Dark Samus and Richter) = 8
There's the math.

 

[Will]

Alright I'm going to make my last prediction for Smash Ultimate's base speculation, so here we go.

I think Geno, Bandana Dee, Isabelle and Isaac are in and I think they're the last newcomers. I think there will NOT be a new Gen 7 Pokemon unless it is an echo (I dunno who tbh), I will stand by this until Vergeben tells us exactly who it is, and even then may still not be fully on board. If there IS a Gen 7 Newcomer who isn't an echo I think the character will be Buzzwole so to stress the importance of Ultra Beasts in Gen 7. So, no Decidueye or Incenaroar, even though I would love both but I wouldn't be disappointed in Buzzwole either. I think "Spirits" isn't the real name of that mode and is just straw grasping. I think Target and Board the Platforms are back. I think Story Mode is real and it'll be MORE ambitious than Brawl's. Now for post release. I think Echoes will be added into the game frequently post release for cheaper than a regular newcomer, which is usually $5.99 or $6.99 if they get a stage. I think Nintendo will announce they're first bit of Smash DLC at The Game Awards on December the 6th. A day before the game is released and I think it'll be a Third Party character announcement that will blow that crowd away, maybe Doom Slayer. I think this will make people even more excited for the game and its future.

So, here's the thing. I've kind of lost my drive to speculate, and not in a bad way. So far I've gotten everything I've wanted and more. Snake, Wolf, Simon, Ridley, K. Rool with only a few outlying disappointments like Takamaru or Ashley. All that on top of seeing people like Opossum 's Extraordinary League of Chrom Supporters, the Space Pirates, the Kutthroats, and the incredibly loud Daisy fanbase get exactly what they want has made me happy to see them happy. A lot of people are psyched for this game. And I just don't NEED anymore. Don't get me wrong if Isaac and Geno DO happen I'm going to be exstatic and over the moon and even more happy with this game. But this is the first Smash where I've seen so many people happy with a Smash game. There's usually more negatives than positives. I'm still going to speculate, I love it enough, but I won't be as passionate as I've been before, but if my predictions come true you can be damn sure my excitement will grow even more.

Everyone is Here, Everyone is Happy

Dude how long was SSE's development time, 2 years? I really feel like if they wanted to do SSE but better, it would take way longer to do anything.

 

[Idon]

Speculation's never something you should really invest much in since Sakurai hardly ever gives out substantial hints on newcomers or whatever. I don't think any of it ever pans out the way people think it will and some things just make no reasonable sense for someone to be able to infer early on.

Now, character discussions on why people think characters should get in? Now that's always more fun, because instead of poring over sales numbers and timing periods, people just discuss characters and games they like.

 

[Noipoi]

Alright I'm going to make my last prediction for Smash Ultimate's base speculation, so here we go.

I think Geno, Bandana Dee, Isabelle and Isaac are in and I think they're the last newcomers. I think there will NOT be a new Gen 7 Pokemon unless it is an echo (I dunno who tbh), I will stand by this until Vergeben tells us exactly who it is, and even then may still not be fully on board. If there IS a Gen 7 Newcomer who isn't an echo I think the character will be Buzzwole so to stress the importance of Ultra Beasts in Gen 7. So, no Decidueye or Incenaroar, even though I would love both but I wouldn't be disappointed in Buzzwole either. I think "Spirits" isn't the real name of that mode and is just straw grasping. I think Target and Board the Platforms are back. I think Story Mode is real and it'll be MORE ambitious than Brawl's. Now for post release. I think Echoes will be added into the game frequently post release for cheaper than a regular newcomer, which is usually $5.99 or $6.99 if they get a stage. I think Nintendo will announce they're first bit of Smash DLC at The Game Awards on December the 6th. A day before the game is released and I think it'll be a Third Party character announcement that will blow that crowd away, maybe Doom Slayer. I think this will make people even more excited for the game and its future.

So, here's the thing. I've kind of lost my drive to speculate, and not in a bad way. So far I've gotten everything I've wanted and more. Snake, Wolf, Simon, Ridley, K. Rool with only a few outlying disappointments like Takamaru or Ashley. All that on top of seeing people like Opossum 's Extraordinary League of Chrom Supporters, the Space Pirates, the Kutthroats, and the incredibly loud Daisy fanbase get exactly what they want has made me happy to see them happy. A lot of people are psyched for this game. And I just don't NEED anymore. Don't get me wrong if Isaac and Geno DO happen I'm going to be exstatic and over the moon and even more happy with this game. But this is the first Smash where I've seen so many people happy with a Smash game. There's usually more negatives than positives. I'm still going to speculate, I love it enough, but I won't be as passionate as I've been before, but if my predictions come true you can be damn sure my excitement will grow even more.

Everyone is Here, Everyone is Happy

Why do you think there won't be a new Pokemon? I'm not saying there has to be one every game cuz' that's just not true, but there's nothing suggesting we won't get one either. I always look forward to the new Pokemon and i'd be bummed if we didn't get one. I know this is just your prediction i'm just genuinely curious.

 

[Troykv]

Speculation's never something you should really invest much in since Sakurai hardly ever gives out substantial hints on newcomers or whatever. I don't think any of it ever pans out the way people think it will and some things just make no reasonable sense for someone to be able to infer early on.

Now, character discussions on why people think characters should get in? Now that's always more fun, because instead of poring over sales numbers and timing periods, people just discuss characters and games they like.

That is the fun part about talking about Smash after all; the characters and the games that are connected with it.

 

[Shroob]

Sure. I've included the original and the supposed followup in separate text boxes. This will also be somewhat of an analysis of this supposed leak as it's actually kind of interesting.

There are two parts to this "leak," an original and a supposed followup which adds information.

Spoiler: Original

I might delete this post soon since I don't want to cause the source I got this information from any trouble though I can't help it to share this information out of curiosity, even if it won't stay here for too long.

Here is some basic information that I've got:

- The Fire Emblem Series won't receive any newcomers but 2 who are based on existing fighters
- The Legend of Zelda Series won't receive any newcomers
- The Pokemon Series won't receive any newcomers
- Something about an addition to Cloud was mentioned, though I don't know for now if it's gonna be another Final Fantasy character or some other Square Enix character

There are gonna be 12 newcomers in total from which 5 of them are going to be based on other fighters.

For the new ones I only got information on 3 characters who should appear in this title:

- Simon Belmont
- King K. Rool
- Isaac
- X
- X
- X
- X

As for the 5 who are based on other fighters I could also just get the name of 3 of them:

- Chrom based on Roy (appearently with other effects than flames?)
- Soren (I don't know about any changes but he willl be based on Robin)
- Ken ( Based on Ryu with Flame effects)
- X
- X

Some of those will be announced very soon.

Take it or leave it I don't care, I will delete this post soon anyways.

Spoiler: Supposed Follow-Up

Hello again everyone.
I wanted to share the missing information with you all that I got for the game's final characters.

2 out of the 7 newcomers are already confirmed and here are the final ones.

- K Rool (already confirmed)
- Simon Belmont (already confirmed)
- Isaac (is on his way)
- Monster Hunter (is still in development which is the reason why he wasn't confirmed today)
- Terra from the Final Fantasy Series
- Another Bandai Namco character
- Prince Sable from "For the Frog the Bell Tolls"

Coming to the Echo Fighter there are people who didn't understand the system behind my information. The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus und Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being. And I didn't include characters like Inkling,Ridley and Daisy since they were already officially confirmed at that point. Since people doubted it I only wanted to share information again when some of the characters I called were finally confirmed.
There will be no more "X" this time since I wanted to make sure that everyone is named.

With that said there will indeed be more Echo Fighters than I anticipated before.

- Chrom based on Roy (already confirmed)
- Soren based on Robin (still on his way)
- Dark Samus based on Samus (already confirmed)
- Richter based on Simon (already confirmed)
- Ken based on Ryu (still on his way)
- Shadow the Hedgehog based on Sonic (still on his way)
- Felix based on Isaac(will be revealed together with Isaac like Simon was with Richter)
- Isabelle based on Villager (still on her way)
- Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight (still on his way)

As for the Bandai Namco character, it's the only one left I don't know about. I will update it if I get my hands on that information.
That's it for the main roster. I don't know if there are any plans for DLC but since Super Smash Bros for the Wii U had DLC you can most likely expect it here as well.

This post will be deleted soon as well. And again, take it or leave it.

I'm also quoting @Sykin's post about the threads and accounts for reference.

Lets list some facts:

Spoiler: Facts

• The original "leak" was posted by an account named Whisslbank around early July (July 3rd if I'm correct). It claims the following:
• 7 newcomers, 5 echoes
  • K. Rool
  • Simon
  • Isaac
  • 4 other newcomers
  • Chrom based on Roy, a claim unheard of at the time
  • Soren based on Robin
  • Ken based on Ryu
  • 2 other echoes
  • "Some of those will be revealed soon
• Soon after that, K. Rool, Simon, and Chrom as a Roy echo are revealed. Richter and Dark Samus fit into the two X's within the "leak"
• The account that posted the original does not exist anymore.
• Yesterday, after the Smash Direct, Whisslbank comes back and adds on to their "leak," claiming in addition to their previous leak:
  • Monster Hunter
  • Terra Branford
  • An unknown Bandai Namco Rep
  • Prince Sable
  • More echoes, and confirmation of the above italicized point: "The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus and Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being."
  • Shadow based on Sonic
  • Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight
  • Felix based on Isaac, to be revealed alongside him
  • Isabelle based on Villiager
  • Soren uses a "modified dagger" instead of the bronze sword
  • No info on DLC
• The second leak is posted by Whisslbank using a different account, as proven by @Sykin.

Lets take this a step further.

Trying to access Whisslbank's original account leads to this message: "The requested user could not be found." Obviously, this means that the account doesn't exist. NeoGAF accounts cannot be deleted by the user, and can only be affected by the moderation team. This means that the moderators of NeoGAF took action against Whisslbank's original account. Compare the error message to that of someone banned, and you get a slightly different message, being "This user's profile is not available." The account still exists, but cannot be seen by regular users, compared to the original account, which doesn't exist at all. Based off of this, we can infer that the moderators of NeoGAF banned Whisslbanks's original account. Now, we need to think of why the moderators deleted Whisslbank's account.

• Did Whisslbank ask the moderators to delete their account, and we're noticing it just now?
• Did the moderators decide to delete the account due to supposed trolling?
• Or did they delete the account because the information Whisslbank "leaked" was actually true?

The first option is possible, but the moderators are known to take a very long time to delete accounts, if they ever actually do it. I'm hard pressed to believe this option. The second option is even harder to believe, as the moderators simply ban users who troll, and only do so for egregious violations, like posting porn. Of course, it's possible that the moderation team doesn't take kindly to supposed leaks, but this would have to be a recent shift in policy as leaks have originated from and been discussed on NeoGAF for years now. That leaves the third option as the strongest in my opinion, as it's not hard to believe that a Nintendo employee caught wind of what Whisslbank said in their first "leak" and took immediate action to shut it down.

From there the next question is: Was Whisslbank guessing with their claims?

The claims that they made weren't exactly difficult. King K. Rool and Simon were the two most popular characters to appear in supposed leaks. Chrom as an echo fighter was popular speculation, but the fact that Whisslbank claimed Chrom would be an echo fighter of Roy instead of the widely speculated Ike stands out more.

Of course, this claim could just be trying to give the "leak" notoriety because it made a couple of odd claims (like Soren being an echo of Robin), or a smart inference that Chrom fights like Lucina, who fights like Marth, and would therefore be an echo of Roy as Marth already has Lucina as an echo fighter (that's a confusing explanation). If so, that's a smart guess. The next step I'd want to take is checking Soren or FE9/FE10's popularity in Japan. If it's sizable enough, then Soren might not be as odd of a claim as we think he is (we got Richter due to his popularity within his series, particularly in Japan).

I think this "leak" is worth watching, and I'm even upping it to a "Leak" of Interest.


This is an odd bookend, but I thought I'd address this as well:

"2 of 7" refers to the 2 out of 7 unique newcomers predicted within the supposed "leak." The leaker themselves said this as well:

3, + the 3 that our "leaker" predicted (K. Rool, Simon, and Chrom as a Roy echo) + the two X's for echoes (supposedly Dark Samus and Richter) = 8
There's the math.

So this is legitamately something to look into.


I meaaaaaaaan........

I'd be very down with Isaac, since he's basically the "4th Musketeer" of Brawl's Big 3.

Another Square rep that's NOT Geno though, would really ****ing sting, especially if there's no classic FF music.


Prince Sable is an odd one. I could very easily see him get in as our Retro choice, especially since we haven't seen his AT, and him getting in as an AT last game was a surprise anyway.


The Echoes are pretty much par for the course besides Galacta and Soren, which........ that last one's a big eye opener. It's very, very weird, but if they changed Robin's FS to something new, I could totally see it happen, frankly.

 

[vaanrose]

https://twitter.com/Than_Kyou/status/1028164876147994625

Anyway, some guy's trying to decode the "Spirits" symbol image. I swear I've seen that in another game before.

That shape is pretty commonly used in Japanese folklore regarding spirits and ghosts. Hitodama, Mitama, Magatama, they all come in that curved teardrop shape. You'll have seen it in Persona, Ace Attorney, Yokai Watch, honestly probably every Japanese game that has anything to do with spirits, lol.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Does anyone have access to any Pre-Brawl polls? Particularly those from the official Nintendo forums when those were a thing?

Thirdkoopa ? vaanrose ? Anyone?

Nevermind I found them with the power of Google.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Does anyone have access to any Pre-Brawl polls? Particularly those from the official Nintendo forums when those were a thing?

Thirdkoopa ? vaanrose ? Anyone?

This one?

https://smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/

I got the smashboards thread on it

 

[vaanrose]

Does anyone have access to any Pre-Brawl polls? Particularly those from the official Nintendo forums when those were a thing?

Thirdkoopa ? vaanrose ? Anyone?

I'm old, but I'm not that old.

 

[Noipoi]

Sure. I've included the original and the supposed followup in separate text boxes. This will also be somewhat of an analysis of this supposed leak as it's actually kind of interesting.

There are two parts to this "leak," an original and a supposed followup which adds information.

Spoiler: Original

I might delete this post soon since I don't want to cause the source I got this information from any trouble though I can't help it to share this information out of curiosity, even if it won't stay here for too long.

Here is some basic information that I've got:

- The Fire Emblem Series won't receive any newcomers but 2 who are based on existing fighters
- The Legend of Zelda Series won't receive any newcomers
- The Pokemon Series won't receive any newcomers
- Something about an addition to Cloud was mentioned, though I don't know for now if it's gonna be another Final Fantasy character or some other Square Enix character

There are gonna be 12 newcomers in total from which 5 of them are going to be based on other fighters.

For the new ones I only got information on 3 characters who should appear in this title:

- Simon Belmont
- King K. Rool
- Isaac
- X
- X
- X
- X

As for the 5 who are based on other fighters I could also just get the name of 3 of them:

- Chrom based on Roy (appearently with other effects than flames?)
- Soren (I don't know about any changes but he willl be based on Robin)
- Ken ( Based on Ryu with Flame effects)
- X
- X

Some of those will be announced very soon.

Take it or leave it I don't care, I will delete this post soon anyways.

Spoiler: Supposed Follow-Up

Hello again everyone.
I wanted to share the missing information with you all that I got for the game's final characters.

2 out of the 7 newcomers are already confirmed and here are the final ones.

- K Rool (already confirmed)
- Simon Belmont (already confirmed)
- Isaac (is on his way)
- Monster Hunter (is still in development which is the reason why he wasn't confirmed today)
- Terra from the Final Fantasy Series
- Another Bandai Namco character
- Prince Sable from "For the Frog the Bell Tolls"

Coming to the Echo Fighter there are people who didn't understand the system behind my information. The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus und Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being. And I didn't include characters like Inkling,Ridley and Daisy since they were already officially confirmed at that point. Since people doubted it I only wanted to share information again when some of the characters I called were finally confirmed.
There will be no more "X" this time since I wanted to make sure that everyone is named.

With that said there will indeed be more Echo Fighters than I anticipated before.

- Chrom based on Roy (already confirmed)
- Soren based on Robin (still on his way)
- Dark Samus based on Samus (already confirmed)
- Richter based on Simon (already confirmed)
- Ken based on Ryu (still on his way)
- Shadow the Hedgehog based on Sonic (still on his way)
- Felix based on Isaac(will be revealed together with Isaac like Simon was with Richter)
- Isabelle based on Villager (still on her way)
- Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight (still on his way)

As for the Bandai Namco character, it's the only one left I don't know about. I will update it if I get my hands on that information.
That's it for the main roster. I don't know if there are any plans for DLC but since Super Smash Bros for the Wii U had DLC you can most likely expect it here as well.

This post will be deleted soon as well. And again, take it or leave it.

I'm also quoting @Sykin's post about the threads and accounts for reference.

Lets list some facts:

Spoiler: Facts

• The original "leak" was posted by an account named Whisslbank around early July (July 3rd if I'm correct). It claims the following:
• 7 newcomers, 5 echoes
  • K. Rool
  • Simon
  • Isaac
  • 4 other newcomers
  • Chrom based on Roy, a claim unheard of at the time
  • Soren based on Robin
  • Ken based on Ryu
  • 2 other echoes
  • "Some of those will be revealed soon
• Soon after that, K. Rool, Simon, and Chrom as a Roy echo are revealed. Richter and Dark Samus fit into the two X's within the "leak"
• The account that posted the original does not exist anymore.
• Yesterday, after the Smash Direct, Whisslbank comes back and adds on to their "leak," claiming in addition to their previous leak:
  • Monster Hunter
  • Terra Branford
  • An unknown Bandai Namco Rep
  • Prince Sable
  • More echoes, and confirmation of the above italicized point: "The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus and Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being."
  • Shadow based on Sonic
  • Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight
  • Felix based on Isaac, to be revealed alongside him
  • Isabelle based on Villiager
  • Soren uses a "modified dagger" instead of the bronze sword
  • No info on DLC
• The second leak is posted by Whisslbank using a different account, as proven by @Sykin.

Lets take this a step further.

Trying to access Whisslbank's original account leads to this message: "The requested user could not be found." Obviously, this means that the account doesn't exist. NeoGAF accounts cannot be deleted by the user, and can only be affected by the moderation team. This means that the moderators of NeoGAF took action against Whisslbank's original account. Compare the error message to that of someone banned, and you get a slightly different message, being "This user's profile is not available." The account still exists, but cannot be seen by regular users, compared to the original account, which doesn't exist at all. Based off of this, we can infer that the moderators of NeoGAF banned Whisslbanks's original account. Now, we need to think of why the moderators deleted Whisslbank's account.

• Did Whisslbank ask the moderators to delete their account, and we're noticing it just now?
• Did the moderators decide to delete the account due to supposed trolling?
• Or did they delete the account because the information Whisslbank "leaked" was actually true?

The first option is possible, but the moderators are known to take a very long time to delete accounts, if they ever actually do it. I'm hard pressed to believe this option. The second option is even harder to believe, as the moderators simply ban users who troll, and only do so for egregious violations, like posting porn. Of course, it's possible that the moderation team doesn't take kindly to supposed leaks, but this would have to be a recent shift in policy as leaks have originated from and been discussed on NeoGAF for years now. That leaves the third option as the strongest in my opinion, as it's not hard to believe that a Nintendo employee caught wind of what Whisslbank said in their first "leak" and took immediate action to shut it down.

From there the next question is: Was Whisslbank guessing with their claims?

The claims that they made weren't exactly difficult. King K. Rool and Simon were the two most popular characters to appear in supposed leaks. Chrom as an echo fighter was popular speculation, but the fact that Whisslbank claimed Chrom would be an echo fighter of Roy instead of the widely speculated Ike stands out more.

Of course, this claim could just be trying to give the "leak" notoriety because it made a couple of odd claims (like Soren being an echo of Robin), or a smart inference that Chrom fights like Lucina, who fights like Marth, and would therefore be an echo of Roy as Marth already has Lucina as an echo fighter (that's a confusing explanation). If so, that's a smart guess. The next step I'd want to take is checking Soren or FE9/FE10's popularity in Japan. If it's sizable enough, then Soren might not be as odd of a claim as we think he is (we got Richter due to his popularity within his series, particularly in Japan).

I think this "leak" is worth watching, and I'm even upping it to a "Leak" of Interest.


This is an odd bookend, but I thought I'd address this as well:

"2 of 7" refers to the 2 out of 7 unique newcomers predicted within the supposed "leak." The leaker themselves said this as well:

3, + the 3 that our "leaker" predicted (K. Rool, Simon, and Chrom as a Roy echo) + the two X's for echoes (supposedly Dark Samus and Richter) = 8
There's the math.

I don't believe this because I don't believe any leaks unless they're confirmed, but man what a weird roster.
Some of these make sense like Isaac, but then you have Prince Sable? Galacta Knight who's already a Meta Knight costume? Another Square character but no Geno? It seems a little too "out there" for me, but that could also mean it's true because no one else has thought of it. We'll have to see, I guess.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't believe this because I don't believe any leaks unless they're confirmed, but man what a weird roster.
Some of these make sense like Isaac, but then you have Prince Sable? Galacta Knight who's already a Meta Knight costume? Another Square character but no Geno? It seems a little too "out there" for me, but that could also mean it's true because no one else has thought of it. We'll have to see, I guess.

You'd expect that if we get a Square character that's not Geno we'd get Sora or something

 

[Impa4Smash]

Sorry to burst your bubble but

She could still make it in. Probably not since the Toon Link situation seems singular.

I’m indifferent to her myself but I figured she’d be so easy so why not include her.

I'll say about the Neogaf leak:

A Monster Hunter pc does honestly make sense, though was this before or after Rathalos got shown off?

Galacta Knight is a bit of a hard pill to swallow when we've seen that Meta Knight has a Galacta color which almost makes him identical. I really feel like this would affect readability, honestly.

I know **** about Final Fantasy, but who's Terra? If we're getting a 2nd Final Fantasy rep, especially if she's an older character, they better DAMN well put more music into this game from FF.

Prince Sable IS MIA, though that's an odd one. He wouldn't 'really' need a stage I guess, and his music could go into 'other'.

Isaac and Felix without a stage and OST of their own is a bit of a hard pill to swallow tbh.

The other Echoes feel incredibly safe and are what most people assume we'll get anyway.

Do you have a link to this leak? I missed it

Edit: Ignore. It was posted above

 

[Shroob]

Basically, either the next reveal with flat out confirm this leak, or kill it dead where it stands, unless it's just an Echo fighter, since MOST of those echoes are ridiculously safe guesses.

I think most people are going to throw Shadow, Isabelle and Ken into their predictions.

If we get a Isaac with a Felix reveal tho, game over man.

 

[Noipoi]

Basically, either the next reveal with flat out confirm this leak, or kill it dead where it stands, unless it's just an Echo fighter, since MOST of those echoes are ridiculously safe guesses.

I think most people are going to throw Shadow, Isabelle and Ken into their predictions.

If we get a Isaac with a Felix reveal tho, game over man.

That's the best thing about wacky, out there leaks. Short life spans.

 

[Will]

I think its time for the monthly avi swap.

I'm old, but I'm not that old.

I didn't even realize that I joined before you.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That's the best thing about wacky, out there leaks. Short life spans.

One of the best things about the Direct was how many "leaks" it murdered.

It was beautiful.

Basically, either the next reveal with flat out confirm this leak, or kill it dead where it stands, unless it's just an Echo fighter, since MOST of those echoes are ridiculously safe guesses.

I think most people are going to throw Shadow, Isabelle and Ken into their predictions.

If we get a Isaac with a Felix reveal tho, game over man.

Essentially. I'm still keeping my eye on it for the time being. Unconventional rosters like this always pique my interest, because the base roster is always what we expect it not to be. The full roster with this leak is full of fan favorites, but also odd picks like Soren, Prince Sable, Terra Branford, and even Monster Hunter, who's been an obscure pick until somewhat recently.

Watch the Bandai Namco rep turn out to Agumon instead of Lloyd or Heihachi like everyone thinks it's going to be. That'd be wild.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That's the best thing about wacky, out there leaks. Short life spans.

But in this case short is 2 or 3 months.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If the boos or King Boo aren't a boss in a mode called Spirits. I'm refunding my purchase.

REFUNDED I TELL YA.

 

[Noipoi]

One of the best things about the Direct was how many "leaks" it murdered.

It was beautiful.

It was as if a thousand leaks cried out in terror, but were suddenly deconfirmed.

But in this case short is 2 or 3 months.

I could see us getting one newcomer next month, and one is all you need with this leak.

 

[Shroob]

This is what the final roster would look like if that leak is real. Throwing Heihachi in as the Namco rep because, c'mon, it's ****ing Heihachi.


It looks odd.

 

[Will]

View attachment 157038

This is what the final roster would look like if that leak is real. Throwing Heihachi in as the Namco rep because, c'mon, it's ****ing Heihachi.


It looks odd.

Where do you guys keep making these rosters, I'm getting mad jealous.

 

[Deleted member]

Since we now have Castlevania content in Smash, we need to have this song as well (volume and mild language warning):

 

[Noipoi]

View attachment 157038

This is what the final roster would look like if that leak is real. Throwing Heihachi in as the Namco rep because, c'mon, it's ****ing Heihachi.


It looks odd.

Everything looks pretty consistent up till' Isaac, then it gets really weird.
That's why i don't trust this leak, it's too weird. Not Sakurai weird like Wii Fit or Duck Hunt, just strange picks all around.
Like who's Soren? Who's Terra? Why Prince Sable? Why Galacta Knight when Meta Knight already has the costume? in fact that last one kinda kills it for me.

 

[Deleted member]

Where do you guys keep making these rosters, I'm getting mad jealous.

They're using the roster maker program.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Bandana Dee? Magalor? Marx? Not important

Galacta Knight. Getting in.

...?

 

[osby]

If the boos or King Boo aren't a boss in a mode called Spirits. I'm refunding my purchase.

REFUNDED I TELL YA.

About that...
Is "Spirits" written in English? And if it is, is it localised?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

View attachment 157038

This is what the final roster would look like if that leak is real. Throwing Heihachi in as the Namco rep because, c'mon, it's ****ing Heihachi.


It looks odd.

In terms of characters, I'm actually really pleased with it. Like, this is a great roster. Good first party picks (Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, Inklings) and great third party picks (Simon, Terra, Monster Hunter, and Bandai Namco Rep).

Your roster is off center though, which is probably why it looks odd. /s

Everything looks pretty consistent up till' Isaac, then it gets really weird.
That's why i don't trust this leak, it's too weird. Not Sakurai weird like Wii Fit or Duck Hunt, just strange picks all around.

I don't know. I think it's in line with what we know about Sakurai. Terra instead of Geno could easily be explained by Square Enix still deciding not to play ball for whatever reason. Also, it's possible to infer that loz18's comment about the next couple of reveals being related to major Nintendo Switch releases could mean something along the lines of a new Final Fantasy game, or a Final Fantasy 6 remake in the near future. That's a reach though.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I wish they would remove the free fall animation altogether. I feel it’s not really a necessary mechanic. Sonic gets a free up b. ROB gets a free up b. Mega man, Bayonetta.

I just think it’s weird that most characters are locked out after using up specials because it isn’t worth the risk of free fall, while some others just have full benefit and lack a free fall animation altogether.

Edit: Sonic and Bayonetta are especially advantageous because of this. Sonic alone has 8 different attacks he can use in tandem with his up special at no greater risk for whiffing.

It's not really "free." There's a lot moving parts involved. Like, Sonic, as an example? All he can do is go straight up. That's it. No other jumps coming out of it. That verticality is all he has, and the eventual descent that follows. Sure he can attack out of it, but it's a risk. He misses, he's a sitting duck until he lands or grabs the edge. Alternatively, think of it like this: Can you imagine how busted some recoveries become if you were to dispose of the free-falling/tumbling animation after them? Dedede could just...stockpile his multiple jumps basically and keep Super Dedede Jumping to his heart's content...or til whenever he grabs the edge or lands on-stage. This would especially be awful at low-ish percentages because it'd be damn near impossible to KO people. I'll spare everybody the tedium of going through each and every single recovery in the game with this sort of thing, ya'll should get the idea. It would become kinda unfun.

It's certainly an interesting thought experiment, to be sure, but there's good reason why certain characters have it and others do not (boils down to their inherent design and stuff like that, which again, would take me all night waxing on about and I'd rather not do that). You'd have to rework the rest of the game into something with less of an emphasis on getting people off of the stage. Like...Playstation All-Star Battle Royale or something of that yoke.

Smooth Criminal