Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[vaanrose]

View attachment 156978

I'm not banking on this being the final shape of the roster(Though it could be), but there's one issue here, speculation of course.



If Echo Fighters 'have' to be next to their originals, then we come into a problem with Villager and the supposed Isabelle claim. Unless either Dixie or Shadow aren't in, or there's a 3rd Echo up there(Impa, maybe?), then Villager would be pushed to the end of his column, seperating him from Isabelle.



I don't think the Final Roster is going to have 7-8 rows of 10 characters obviously, it'd be way too crowded, but just a speculation thought, since this is the closest look at 'what the css may look like' that we've gotten.

This doesn't actually resemble the CSS in the demo at all. This mockup is much more square and fills the full screen instead of 2/3 of the screen like it will in the final build. Plus we know it's not final, and even if it were, Sakurai has never, ever made his roster selections based on the CSS and was perfectly fine with breaking up series across rows last time.

 

[Skyline1992]

If each gen got a newcomer, who would you pick?
My choices would be:
Kanto: Gengar
Johto: Scizor
Hoenn: Probably Gardevoir since my favorites of this gen are too big
Sinnoh: Staraptor
Unova: Chandelure
Kalos: Tyrantrum or Hawlucha
Alola: Decidueye

Kanto: Gengar
Johto:Scizor
Hoenn: Blaziken or Sceptile
Sinnoh: Infernape
Unova: Excadrill
Kalos: Chesnaught
Alola: Decidueye

 

[Nazyrus]

I wonder how different speculation would be if people took Verg and Loz out of the equation and talked about Isabelle's (and the other's) chances outside the context of leaks...

Maybe speculations would go back to simply what's mostly requested, seeing as how Sakurai is taking that route for adding newcomers and echos so far, even movesets are no longer an excuse.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I wonder how different speculation would be if people took Verg and Loz out of the equation and talked about Isabelle's (and the other's) chances outside the context of leaks...

The first thing that comes to mind is that DaybreakHorizon 's collection of fake 4chan leaks wouldn't all be flooded with Simon Belmont as a playable character, that's for sure.

 

[Noipoi]

No effing way.

How can you say this gorgeous foxy pokemon is ugly? It is just perfect.

It's a traffic cone.
I don't hate it, but it's pre-evos were better.

 

[Starry]

Kanto: Gengar
Johto:Scizor
Hoenn: Blaziken or Sceptile
Sinnoh: Infernape
Unova: Excadrill
Kalos: Chesnaught
Alola: Decidueye

I really like the idea of a ghost like Gengar in Smash, it seems like something we haven't had so far (unless I'm forgetting someone idk aaaa)

on that note I always thought that Darkrai would be ridiculously cool but I think it's super duper unlikely ;-;

 

[Arcadenik]

I will never get over how Meowth doesn't seem to talk in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee.
Top 10 missed opportunities, then again the whole game is a missed opportunity.

That’s the one disappointing thing about Pokémon Let’s Go. I’m willing to overlook that the games are really casual though.

I mean, I’m very happy that Team Rocket from the anime finally came back to the games after an 18 year hiatus. But Team Rocket Meowth is just a generic Meowth... like... like the Pokeball Meowth in Smash games. Team Rocket Meowth is full of personality and is very expressive and I know for sure THAT Meowth would be a perfect fit as a playable fighter in Smash.

Sakurai did mention how Donkey Kong’s face is more expressively at E3 2018 Smash Direct. That’s why I believe Meowth would be a perfect fit in Smash. The anime showed us that this specific Meowth is more than just a generic cat with a coin on its forehead unlike the Pokeball Meowth in Smash.

I mean, come on. Don't you want to see Meowth doing JoJo poses in Smash? I think Sakurai likes JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure... and if that’s true, then he could find Meowth doing JoJo poses appealing.

 

[Pyra]

Maybe speculations would go back to simply what's mostly requested, seeing as how Sakurai is taking that route for adding newcomers and echos so far, even movesets are no longer an excuse.

That's how it is anyway. At this point, I'm not sure if Isabelle is popular because she's actually popular, or because some guy who leaked Ridley (after Loz did iirc) says he has a source that says so. Even if he did, it's weird, because people are arguing for her support in the context of the leak and not the context of any other reasons she would get in.

Like, I'm sure she's a popular character and has merit as basically the mascot of Animal Crossing now, but it's always "verg said" and "Loz doesn't know" lol

 

[TMNTSSB4]

All he needs is his boo-ty. That's Solid Snake's problem, he isn't even anatomically correct.

Inb4 Sakurai nerfed Snake in such a heartless way to make Palutena more thicc

View attachment 156978

I'm not banking on this being the final shape of the roster(Though it could be), but there's one issue here, speculation of course.
If Echo Fighters 'have' to be next to their originals, then we come into a problem with Villager and the supposed Isabelle claim. Unless either Dixie or Shadow aren't in, or there's a 3rd Echo up there(Impa, maybe?), then Villager would be pushed to the end of his column, seperating him from Isabelle.
I don't think the Final Roster is going to have 7-8 rows of 10 characters obviously, it'd be way too crowded, but just a speculation thought, since this is the closest look at 'what the css may look like' that we've gotten.

The possible lack of space for the css might be an explanation on why echoes can be placed in the same slot as the person they copy, so I guess the css could look like



ultshulk:

Echoes paired up with their superiors

 

[Starbound]

Honestly, starting to feel that way myself if this is the case.

But something just doesn't sit right either.

Dark Samus gets a short end of the stick, but Isabelle gets an entirely new moveset?

If Isabelle is as popular as we all think she is, she was probably higher priority. Going off of the leaks, it doesn't seem like they were planned in advance as neither knows of them. Which makes sense given the past games have never planned clones from the start.

Y'know, maybe we won't get a Xenoblade rep for base game?

Sakurai bringing up the amount of stages really seems like a giveaway that it's the final stage roster for until DLC.

Why would he have given a number if it's not the full one?

Why does this deny a Xenoblade rep? Because unless they're from the first game, the rep would NEED a stage representing the game they're in.

This is especially true if you think the ballot is guiding roster decisions, as the ballot predates both Elma and Rex. Unless we get DLC.

But at the same time, given how DLC looked in 4, doing the same thing again wouldn't be out of place :^)

DLC confirmed?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This is especially true if you think the ballot is guiding roster decisions, as the ballot predates both Elma and Rex. Unless we get DLC.

Considering we got stuff like Ridley and K. Rool, the ballot definitely has an influence.

 

[Nazyrus]

That's how it is anyway. At this point, I'm not sure if Isabelle is popular because she's actually popular, or because some guy who leaked Ridley (after Loz did iirc) says he has a source that says so. Even if he did, it's weird, because people are arguing for her support in the context of the leak and not the context of any other reasons she would get in.

Like, I'm sure she's a popular character and has merit as basically the mascot of Animal Crossing now, but it's always "verg said" and "Loz doesn't know" lol

Isabelle is… literally the second face of Animal Crossing, regardless of the leakers doing.

 

[ErenJager]

So… If Shovel Knight is ruled out as the indie character we could've gotten as playable… What other indie character with high demand do you think could be the lucky one? I honestly think Shantae would be the one (plus whatever that codename leak was about, which i think it's fake but it talked about ponytail as one of them, and somehow i don't think it meant Dixie…)

I think we won't get an indie rep at all.
I think Shovel Knight was put into Smash due to reasons similar to getting a self funded amiibo and Rayman getting a trophy. It was likely gifted or given to Sakurai, and the AT was him being polite since the work was done for him.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Honestly, starting to feel that way myself if this is the case.

But something just doesn't sit right either.

Dark Samus gets a short end of the stick, but Isabelle gets an entirely new moveset?

There's a difference in Dark Samus and Isabelle.

One is a secondary (but main in her own series) villain of the Metroid series.

Isabelle is the FACE of Animal Crossing and one of the most popular new Nintendo characters that's not a squid kid.

There's also the fact of Isabelle has totally different sizing than Smash Villager, and the fact she would NOT look right wielding an ax, or using a boxing glove, etc.

But Dark Samus looks fine using Samus's attacks because of the nature of what she is.

 

[Will]

No effing way.

How can you say this gorgeous foxy pokemon is ugly? It is just perfect.

boy i know you just didnt call that pokemon foxy

 

[MainJPW]

It's a traffic cone.
I don't hate it, but it's pre-evos were better.

You're really not wrong, ummm.

You forgot the "Combined".

I was thinking that but didn't type it out.

A Cutlass isn't that different from a Short Sword, in terms of game logic.

I was thinking it would need some different animations so it wouldn't look weird doing the same thing as a double edged sword.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Isabelle is… literally the second face of Animal Crossing, regardless of the leakers doing.

Hell she might even become the undisputed face of Animal Crossing one day

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Man, I just rewatched the E3 Smash Ultimate segment and the direct again, and seeing all the content that's going to be in this game keeps putting a huge grin on my face.

We really don't deserve Sakurai and his team.

 

[Zinith]

Looking through old newcomer threads, it seemed like people didn't know how to handle support arguments at the time. Now we know better...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The fact so many people haven't given Isabelle the time of day is quite daft.

She's THAT big of a deal to her series and Nintendo.

But you know since she doesn't wield a sword or come from a series with prominent fighting or what not, people just assume she's low priority or just not on the radar.

But I can assure you all Sakurai has to do is step out of his home and into any store in Japan that carries Nintendo merchandise and the popularity of Isabelle is going to be right in his face.

 

[Nazyrus]

Hell she might even become the undisputed face of Animal Crossing one day

I legit feel that the Villager become more popular because of Smash than AC itself lol. I do believe she is THE face of that game.

 

[Pyra]

The first thing that comes to mind is that DaybreakHorizon 's collection of fake 4chan leaks wouldn't all be flooded with Simon Belmont as a playable character, that's for sure.

Definitely. Any time someone well known says anything everyone tries to shove it in their leaks haha.


And I mean, people can of course have a discussion from whatever angle they want. I was just thinking about it, is all.
Kinda goes with the whole "just because you win an argument doesn't mean your character has a higher chance" thing. We know that they're trying their damndest to prevent leaks (...Simon Belmont notwithstanding looool that poor intern(?)). So, it wouldn't be farfetched to think that they ARE, in fact, feeding people fake information mixed in with potentially real things. After all, they did say up until e3, VERY few people actually knew what was going on. And that's probably still the case going forwards.

I can see throwing him a credibility bone, but assuming that a leaker *must* be right because they were right before kinda makes assumptions.
Not that assuming he's wrong doesn't (it's an assumption that they are providing mixed info, for instance), but it's a safer bet and also lets people think about their characters outside of a leaker context.

Just my thoughts. Carry on with what you're doing, everyone. Don't get mad at me just cause I just said "I don't trust anything until I see it" in essay format. That's just me.

 

[vaanrose]

That's how it is anyway. At this point, I'm not sure if Isabelle is popular because she's actually popular, or because some guy who leaked Ridley (after Loz did iirc) says he has a source that says so. Even if he did, it's weird, because people are arguing for her support in the context of the leak and not the context of any other reasons she would get in.

Like, I'm sure she's a popular character and has merit as basically the mascot of Animal Crossing now, but it's always "verg said" and "Loz doesn't know" lol

People were talking about Isabelle long before Verg joined that train. She's casual popular, which is different than Smash popular. Most of us who think she's likely realize she's more of a Sakurai pick than most the other fan favorite picks, in that he'd pick her for her large casual fanbase, not the loud support she gets in the core demographic.

 

[Starbound]

Honestly, as much as I think the Villager moveset fits Isabelle's personality to a T, I think it's entire possible he can do it all again for creating a quirky moveset for Isabelle. The "fighter who doesn't realize they're fighting" could be pulled off again.

"Mayor, the fountain is finished construction"
"Isabelle, why is there a dragon claw underneath the fountain?
"...Perhaps we should send it to the museum to investigate?"

Mild profanity warning, but it's so Isabelle.

 

[Noipoi]

Man, I just rewatched the E3 Smash Ultimate segment and the direct again, and seeing all the content that's going to be in this game keeps putting a huge grin on my face.

We really don't deserve Sakurai and his team.

Smash 4 isn't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be, but this game is making Smash 4 seem tiny in comparison.
Is there even a reason to use my Wii U anymore?

 

[KMDP]

boy i know you just didnt call that pokemon foxy

But Delphox is a fox. That's what "foxy" literally means.

You're really not wrong, ummm.

I was thinking that but didn't type it out.


I was thinking it would need some different animations so it wouldn't look weird doing the same thing as a double edged sword.

Yeah. I'm picturing it now:

Sakurai: "Tetra has a special cutlass that's sharpened on both sides".

 

[Pyra]

People were talking about Isabelle long before Verg joined that train. She's casual popular, which is different than Smash popular. Most of us who think she's likely realize she's more of a Sakurai pick than most the other fan favorite picks, in that he'd pick her for her large casual fanbase, not the loud support she gets in the core demographic.

I know that, I should have been specific and said "lately". I've mostly seen discourse in the context of the "leaks", lately.

EDIT: Also, I do personally think she's likely.

 

[Nazyrus]

Man, I just rewatched the E3 Smash Ultimate segment and the direct again, and seeing all the content that's going to be in this game keeps putting a huge grin on my face.

We really don't deserve Sakurai and his team.

If this game's worth in price was based on its content… I believe this game would be for rich people, lol. It's just too much to take in for a poor guy like me haha.

 

[Starbound]

The fact so many people haven't given Isabelle the time of day is quite daft.

She's THAT big of a deal to her series and Nintendo.

But you know since she doesn't wield a sword or come from a series with prominent fighting or what not, people just assume she's low priority or just not on the radar.

But I can assure you all Sakurai has to do is step out of his home and into any store in Japan that carries Nintendo merchandise and the popularity of Isabelle is going to be right in his face.

Honestly, there's really no one in a similar position to Isabelle. The popularity she achieved hasn't been matched by anyone in a similar timeframe. The closest might be Rosalina, but I think Isabelle is still magnitudes more popular.

With the casual fanbase, she's honestly their equivalent to our Geno or K. Rool.

And she achieved that in half the time.

 

[Pyra]

Man, I just rewatched the E3 Smash Ultimate segment and the direct again, and seeing all the content that's going to be in this game keeps putting a huge grin on my face.

We really don't deserve Sakurai and his team.

And my favorite part about it is that Sakurai seems to love what he's doing despite it all.
Kinda want to be like that one day. A goal of mine is to start a game development studio, after all.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

If this game's worth in price was based on its content… I believe this game would be for rich people, lol. It's just too much to take in for a poor guy like me haha.

Yeah, usually I'm a bit hesitant on buying full priced games because of pricing shenanigans in Australia, but seeing what we have so far is going to make the $80 price tag worth it, and even more so once we get new information.

 

[Shroob]

Smash 4 isn't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be, but this game is making Smash 4 seem tiny in comparison.
Is there even a reason to use my Wii U anymore?

It makes a good paperweight.

 

[Pyra]

Smash 4 isn't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be, but this game is making Smash 4 seem tiny in comparison.
Is there even a reason to use my Wii U anymore?

I have DK64 and Earthbound (and some other things) on mine so... I can do that, legally.

 

[N3ON]

I wonder how different speculation would be if people took Verg and Loz out of the equation and talked about Isabelle's (and the other's) chances outside the context of leaks...

Simon and Skull Kid wouldn't really be part of the equation and I guess more people would still be backing Decidueye.

Nothing much would really change about Isabelle. She was expected by many and people were arguing whether she'd be original or not long before Ultimate was even announced.

 

[KMDP]

And my favorite part about it is that Sakurai seems to love what he's doing despite it all.
Kinda want to be like that one day. A goal of mine is to start a game development studio, after all.

Sakurai makes games that make hundreds of thousands of people of all ages happy.

I'd like to think seeing reaction videos "gives him life", so to speak.

 

[Pyra]

Simon and Skull Kid wouldn't really be part of the equation and I guess more people would still be backing Decidueye.

Nothing much would really change about Isabelle. She was expected by many and people were arguing whether she'd be original or not long before Ultimate was even announced.

Yeah, Isabelle was probably a bad leading example, but I really meant "recent discourse" anyway. I should have said that. A lot of the posts about her recently that I've seen have been "oh good, Loz has no idea, she's still on the table" and "Verg hasn't been wrooooong" and such, so I was trying to lead into a conversation on that and admittedly goofed up, but I do appreciate your insight on the others.

 

[Starbound]

Smash 4 isn't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be, but this game is making Smash 4 seem tiny in comparison.
Is there even a reason to use my Wii U anymore?

You can play Earthbound or Xenoblade Chronicles on the toilet if your bathroom is less than 27.5 feet away from the console and you don't own a New 3DS.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I blame people sleeping on how popular Isabelle is for the tonal differences in Smash and Animal Crossing.

It really surprises me how many people have never even touched Animal Crossing on this board and don't even realize that it's a lot bigger of a franchise than even some of the classics in terms of how much it's played by a casual audience and even a lot of Nintendo fans.

 

[Nazyrus]

Sakurai makes games that make hundreds of thousands of people of all ages happy.

I'd like to think seeing reaction videos "gives him life", so to speak.

God knows I love watching reaction videos, If I was the creator of this game I would keep doing the same and with even more passion haha (the one he already shows)

 

[KMDP]

God knows I love watching reaction videos, If I was the creator of this game I would keep doing the same and with even more passion haha (the one he already shows)

Didn't he retweet one of Etika's reactions?

Such positive responses have to be encouraging.