Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shyy_Guy595]

Also, I looked it over, and I think you'd have a point if he did it specifcially for himself, but he doesn't. In fact, he specifically mentions his team's bounty, which shows he actually cares for more than himself.

He also expresses genuine guilt for cheating out Fox in one of the endings, and the teams were always built on mutual respect.

He kicked Pigma out of his team due to Pigma being too much of a swine, even for him. He couldn't keep someone he couldn't trust nor expect to be loyal on his team, which shows he actually does have trust he can put in others.

Wolf's biggest crimes are treason and theft, pretty much. No specifics stating he tried to kill the ruler either, so as far as we know, on our moral codes, his personal crimes are forgivable IMO.

He couldn't trust that Star Fox would help him clear his team's bounty, so he took matters into his own hands for his team. He also kinda gave a foreboding warning before they got into the heat of things.

I'd also consider leaving the team and starting your own group to kind of be a stab to the heart, which Falco himself does.

But you know, this has been paragraphs for a while, and it personally comes down to subjectivity in which you view the character's deeds. I personally don't think he's technically a villain when he acts more or less like Vegeta; a man with a past record of criminal activity/immoral acts that slowly calm, but don't fully quell the rivalry between them and the protag, with a few glimpses at a softer side of them that actually have genuine feelings and concerns for people other than themselves for once.

You're welcome to see it differently though.

 

[KMDP]

Haven't been keeping up, have we touched on how loz18 is apparently laying low now until release? Recently said as much on gamefaqs.

Interesting because that's usually what happens when your source gets busted. Nothing's concrete, obv, but food for thought?

I think people sort of discussed it. Not actually referring to his "I'm laying low" post, though.

Also Greninja is already the "ninja" that we have

Don't forget Sheik.

 

[Will]

Don't forget Sheik.

I always forget her.

 

[Idon]

that's similar to most supers, and in other games, the super can be comboed into for often an insta-death combo string .

That's flat out wrong and reductive of other fighting games.

No fighting game has had any one move instant kill when a player is at 80% health, and especially not with the press of one button that activates instantly. The comboes in even the craziest bat**** of fighters often require at least 2 or 3 before an opponent goes down, and that's with a huge amount of resources, far more than one bar. Even touch of death comboes in hyper-fighters require a ton of skill to pull off and often can't be done unless under very specific conditions.

Not to mention the fact that supers in other games can be blocked, have a slow-down cinematic to tell you it's coming in order for you to block, and have very specific hitboxes, making throwing one out randomly extremely punishable, all of which Smash does not.

 

[KMDP]

I always forget her.

The mark of a good Ninja.

 

[Will]

The mark of a good Ninja.

Nah it's the mark of a one-off character I always forget. You know how that one leak forgot R.O.B. and we all forgot R.O.B.?
yeah it's like that

 

[Knight Dude]

If Koei Tecmo were to get a representative, it would definitely be him. Koei is one of the remaining big Japanese companies that has yet to have a playable character, contributing with Nintendo hardcore recently with the Nintendo Warrior games. But IDK, there are things about him that make me see him as unlikely. Like, Koei Tecmo today had not made much notable games recently that would put the company at the top of the video game industry. Level-5, even though they are a recent Japanese company, has very successful, impactful franchises like Snack World, Youkai Watch and Layton for me to think of the idea that Sakurai could find L5 to be worthy of playable representation in Smash. Koei is just kind of there these days, even though they collaborate with many companies on several projects. It makes me think that Koei Tecmo would be of lower priority, should Sakurai choose to add third parties from unrepresented companies outside of SEGA, Capcom, Namco, etc.

Right, but I don't know for sure if Sakurai cares about "repping" the companies, but rather the characters in and of themselves. I mean, I don't know the guy, so I can't say for sure what his thought process is. What secondary content we get can be a result of already talking things out with the company.

Of course having connections to companies makes things easier, Ryu was probably an easier deal since Mega Man was in a year before he was, Same with Bayo and Sonic and Snake with the Belmonts. Of course, having Monster Hunter Assist and Bomberman as an Assist, also applies to this.

Not to say Level-5 doesn't have a chance, but I would think the character the devs and/or fans are interested in might take precedence over what's relevant. After all, Mega Man was still mostly on hiatus(barring re-releases) when he was added and Castlevania hasn't had a main game since Lords of Shadow 2.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

So does this mean Loz is uncredible or is it just that he can grt in big trouble, legally, if he relays any more information.

 

[Starbound]

So does this mean Loz is uncredible or is it just that he can grt in big trouble, legally, if he relays any more information.

If the NintenNinjas are after him, then he's probably at risk of big legal trouble.

That or the person/people he's getting his info from are.

 

[Knight Dude]

I think Ryu Hayabusa and Ninja Gaiden as a whole is pretty important to gaming, notably for being one of the first in the industry to fully utilize cutscenes. Does that mean he should get a spot compared to everyone else? Depends, is Sakurai aiming to add newer characters (Rex), fan favorites (literally any newcomer from yesterday), or someone that's important to history (PAC-MAN)?

Also Greninja is already the "ninja" that we have, all Ninja Gaiden has going for it is Castlevania-tier recognition and what I just described.

Though I wouldn't mind having that scene being replicated in a trailer.

Now, who would get destroyed in his trailer? Sheik or Link right?

 

[Noipoi]

What has loz18 gotten right in the past to make him or his sources credible in the first place?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm fairly certain Hayabusa can still bring his own stuff to the table, fire wheels, ceiling climbing, ninja claws, a scythe, the works.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Ahh, alright. Thank you.

So does this mean Skull Kid is legit now? Lol

Anyways, a good point someone made was that we haven't seen Peach's FS yet, which makes one think: Why save it?

Perhaps because of a certain RPG move they gave her that would've made a certain doll a given.

 

[KMDP]

If the NintenNinjas are after him, then he's probably at risk of big legal trouble.

That or the person/people he's getting his info from are.

If loz18 had to lay low to evade Nintendo's legal action, then what does that say about Vergeben?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So does this mean Loz is uncredible or is it just that he can grt in big trouble, legally, if he relays any more information.

Probably the latter. I'd imagine that a scenario along the lines of this occurred:
One of loz18's sources gave him a piece of information that was purposefully fake and meant to smoke out leakers within the company. loz18 leaks this information, and his source gets caught, or has the risk of being caught. Now, his source can tell Nintendo's lawyers who they told, and loz18 then gets in big trouble.

Of course, that's a hypothetical, and for all we know he just doesn't want to leak anymore, or maybe he'll decide to leak again in the future. It's hard to tell without him saying anything official about it.

If loz18 had to lay low to evade Nintendo's legal action, then what does that say about Vergeben?

Dude's multiple sources make it difficult to trace information back to leakers maybe?

I honestly don't know how he's still going.

 

[N3ON]

What has loz18 gotten right in the past to make him or his sources credible in the first place?

Much of the E3 stuff, Direct in August, K. Rool.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Ryu Hayabusa? But...what about Shinobi?

 

[ThatRedPlumber]

Because freakin Sakurai keeps doing dumb stuff like keeping games and more, not putting waluigi in, and also not putting deathborn in.

Please tell me this is a joke. I fail to see how not putting in 2 characters is dumb when we have all these amazing characters.

I also don’t think “games and more” is that bad anymore now that the vault has been separated from it.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I'm still gonna hold it out until next Direct, as that's gotta be the one where the rest of the massacre happens. If Skull Kid still isn't shown by then, then that may just boost his likeliness up even more. Of course, this goes for Isabelle too.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Something about that censored mode made me think, With Rathalos's assist trophy + boss package I wonder if more assist trophies are going to be featured in stuff outside of regular brawls.

I couldn't help but notice there's a lot more to assist trophies this game in particular, not only can you K.O. them but grab them too? That's a lot of effort put into them oddly! But also only some of them?

Like imagine if the mode gave you a Kirby-esque mode where you choose your fighter, but maybe through unlocks you get to choose from a bunch of assist trophies to be your "buddy" character that follows you around and attacks with you.

Honestly anything really, tbh I'm hoping for some event matches where you get to control an assist trophy or two and you have to fight full on Smash Fighters

A lot of the new Assists definitely have a lot going on - I wouldn't be surprised to see them as enemies in the 'story' mode or events.

...matter of fact - didn't Sakurai say that Assists were supposed to factor into All-star mode somehow in Sm4sh, and then they didn't? What if that idea didn't work on 3DS so they just got carried over?

 

[Will]

Ryu Hayabusa? But...what about Shinobi?View attachment 156784

Ryu has no competition at Tecmo. The entirety of Sonic the Hedgehog does what Luigi did to Mario in Melee Adventure mode back at Shinobi.

also ryu is an NES boi

 

[N3ON]

Dude's multiple sources make it difficult to trace information back to leakers maybe?

I honestly don't know how he's still going.

Vergeben's been leaking for a year. People like Emily Rogers have had sources for like half a decade, if not longer. Gotta watch your step.

 

[Master_Gamer]

I don't see morphs making it into comp, but I will be sorely disappointed with competitive players if we don't at least consider FS Meter. Supers in other fighting games have been perfectly fine, despite the obvious power that comes with it. Mario's only did 15% to Lucina, and while Marth's did KO Lucas at 20%, that's similar to most supers, and in other games, the super can be comboed into for often an insta-death combo string. Plus, final smashes are really hype inducing for spectators, due to being super moves.

I feel like conservatism is killing a lot of the fun that could come out of the game, because we keep inheriting the same ruleset game after game despite what is introduced. Logistics prevented customs from working, and killed off Miis unfortunately as a result. But FS meter is literally as much work as turning items off. And if we're looking at possibly having a toggle for rage, which the community will inevitably turn off, I don't see why this is different.

Stop being afraid to experiment I guess... I know I'm looking forward to having Hazards Off and FS Meter on so I can play Smash in a very different way from before. It'll, hopefully, be very refreshing.

One thing I'd also like to point out is Marth walked right up to Lucas before doing it. As we saw with Lucas, the scale and range of his Final Smash was severely reduced so maybe Marth's Final Smash is only right in front of him like Ike's?

 

[Next Door Dog]

https://twitter.com/zerowondering/status/1027261014105047040

ZeRo thinks we may be able to turn Rage off.

Big if tru

Don't know if anyone has said this yet, but this just looks like a new name for handicaps.


On an unrelated note, here's something interesting I noticed in the direct. IIRC, Black Knight sits on the throne in Castle Siege, but here it looks like he's been replaced with a generic enemy general unit. We gonna get an Ike echo after all? Hector when

 

[Shroob]

So now I'm confused.

Loz is correct, maybe not Verg, or.....?

 

[Mc.Rad]

Please tell me this is a joke. I fail to see how not putting in 2 characters is dumb when we have all these amazing characters.

I also don’t think “games and more” is that bad anymore now that the vault has been separated from it.

its a joke...

I was making a joke about how moving the c-stick around is kinda pointless like how those other things were

 

[Idon]

Don't know if anyone has said this yet, but this just looks like a new name for handicaps.


On an unrelated note, here's something interesting I noticed in the direct. IIRC, Black Knight sits on the throne in Castle Siege, but here it looks like he's been replaced with a generic enemy general unit. We gonna get an Ike echo after all? Hector when
View attachment 156786

Nah, it was never Black Knight, just a generic enemy general.

Doesn't discount the possibility of an Ike echo, but it doesn't point to it either.

 

[Master_Gamer]

Echo fighter = Clone

It can mean a full clone, or a semi clone. Just a name rebranding that's all.

If Dr Mario was a new fighter he would be an echo fighter, same with Lucina

Just a bit confused. Dr. Mario is his own fighter. He's number 18. Lucian is number 21(e) because Marth is number 21 and she's an Echo Fighter of Marth.

 

[Will]

Don't know if anyone has said this yet, but this just looks like a new name for handicaps.


On an unrelated note, here's something interesting I noticed in the direct. IIRC, Black Knight sits on the throne in Castle Siege, but here it looks like he's been replaced with a generic enemy general unit. We gonna get an Ike echo after all? Hector when
View attachment 156786

BLACK KNIGHT WAS A ****ING BACKGROUND CHARACTER?

SINCE WHEN? I NEVER NOTICED THIS

 

[Knight Dude]

Ryu has no competition at Tecmo. The entirety of Sonic the Hedgehog does what Luigi did to Mario in Melee Adventure mode back at Shinobi.

also ryu is an NES boi

If we got another Sega character it should be Axel from Streets of Rage. And I mostly say this for the music.

 

[KMDP]

On an unrelated note, here's something interesting I noticed in the direct. IIRC, Black Knight sits on the throne in Castle Siege, but here it looks like he's been replaced with a generic enemy general unit. We gonna get an Ike echo after all? Hector when

This is veerrry interesting.

So now I'm confused.

Loz is correct, maybe not Verg, or.....?

If Loz went dark because of potential legal action, then he might be correct. And if he is, then Verg may be full of it.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Ryu has no competition at Tecmo. The entirety of Sonic the Hedgehog does what Luigi did to Mario in Melee Adventure mode back at Shinobi.

also ryu is an NES boi

Super sad face. I wanna see at least other Sega franchises besides Sonic. Either assists like Billy Hatcher or music wise, give me my Daytona osts!

Hmm, Tecmo wise, Rygar? Solomon's Key? heck, Dead or Alive(even though its not from the NES era)? Plenty of competition for the NES ninja boy, though not enough.

 

[Will]

give me my Daytona osts!

Y'know, the guy voiced the F-Zero Medley. Could be a possibility, not even joking.

 

[AreJay25]

Don't know if anyone has said this yet, but this just looks like a new name for handicaps.

Actually, now that you mention it...

... I don't think there'd be an option to fully disable rage anyways considering they literally just revealed an item that utilizes it.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well, I see there's more conversation on who to trust in regards to leaks. Personally, the way I see it Vergeben has had spot on information and still might. loz may also have solid information but I don't know about him as much.

If he's laying low after the Skull Kid "leak" then Skull Kid is either in the game and the person who leaked it to him got in trouble somehow, or the leaker was given false information with the purpose of ratting out leakers. To me, my guess is that the Skull Kid leak was used to get people narrowed down to figure out who the "rat" was.

Something I noticed, so I figured I'd post it. I matched up the Mech toy picture that Sakurai used the gun for. We've seen Inklings and K.Rool with the blunderbuss. Whose weapon looks more like the mech? Spoiler alert: Neither.

There IS somebody with a gun that looks kinda similar though...

Take it for what you all will. I just thought this was interesting to consider, especially if Mii Fighter costumes have been any indication of what to expect.

 

[Idon]

BLACK KNIGHT WAS A ****ING BACKGROUND CHARACTER?

SINCE WHEN? I NEVER NOTICED THIS

He wears red and is really far in the back.
Plus, it's not like many people picked Castle to begin with.

 

[Will]

Well, I see there's more conversation on who to trust in regards to leaks. Personally, the way I see it Vergeben has had spot on information and still might. loz may also have solid information but I don't know about him as much.

If he's laying low after the Skull Kid "leak" then Skull Kid is either in the game and the person who leaked it to him got in trouble somehow, or the leaker was given false information with the purpose of ratting out leakers. To me, my guess is that the Skull Kid leak was used to get people narrowed down to figure out who the "rat" was.

Something I noticed, so I figured I'd post it. I matched up the Mech toy picture that Sakurai used the gun for. We've seen Inklings and K.Rool with the blunderbuss. Whose weapon looks more like the mech? Spoiler alert: Neither.

View attachment 156790

There IS somebody with a gun that looks kinda similar though...

View attachment 156791

Take it for what you all will. I just thought this was interesting to consider, especially if Mii Fighter costumes have been any indication of what to expect.

So why wouldn't he have bought it back when he was making the Mii costume?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

If anyone else has question about Richter i'll try my best to answer, he's my favorite Belmont after all and an unexpected and welcome surprise for me to even get into the game.

 

[KMDP]

Well, I've gotta go guys.

Hope nothing really insane happens while I'm gone.

If anyone else has question about Richter i'll try my best to answer, he's my favorite Belmont after all and an unexpected and welcome surprise for me to even get into the game.

Happy for you getting your favourite Belmont.

 

[Master_Gamer]

If anyone else has question about Richter i'll try my best to answer, he's my favorite Belmont after all and an unexpected and welcome surprise for me to even get into the game.

I just love that they have the Grand Cross as the Final Smash. EVERYONE used Grand Cross lol