Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mc.Rad]

Just sayin'.

If they're going so far to include **** that only hardcore fans of certain series would get "BEGONE MONSTER, YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD!" as example....

If we get Skull Kid, I'm completely expecting a textbox of:

"You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?"

Does this mean when the Black Shadow Echo trailer hits, we'll get to see Deathborn Choke Black Shadow like he does in the intro for GX's Story mode and tell him "BLACK SHADOW... YOU'VE FAILED AGAIN... YOU GOOD FOR NOTHING..."

 

[MrSmashFour]

But Luigi came before Dr. Mario

I'm not sure that's how that works though o_o Luigi WAS an Echo of Mario in the original Smash 64, then became very different in Melee. I'm just a bit confused as to what you're implying >_<

EDIT: Luigi WAS an Echo of Mario then became his own style of character in Melee, like how Dr. Mario is his own style character now with different moves and properties. I guess what you're saying is since Chrom looks VERY different from Roy, he should be his own character?

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

Chrom is 1:1 Roy with the only difference being that he has Ike's Up B (and not even the whole thing, rather than throwing the sword up he goes right to the spinning before falling down) There is still nothing unique to Chrom outside the obvious idle stance/taunt/FS.

Luigi is based off of Mario but still has moves and elements unique to him, same with Doc, Pichu, ect.

Chrom is a bastardised ensemble of Ike and Roy.
Luigi is just an ensemble of Mario and Pikachu (and Dr. Mario too considering he has Mario's old down B).
By this logic, they should both be echoes.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Just sayin'.

If they're going so far to include **** that only hardcore fans of certain series would get "BEGONE MONSTER, YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD!" as example....

If we get Skull Kid, I'm completely expecting a textbox of:

"You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?"

Hell yeah I have, have you even considered how many match-ups you'll have to learn?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Wait, Loz had the K.Rool trailer down?

Can I get a link to this?

Yeah, that is potentially huge.

I'd really like a link please.

Found what I was talking about:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76696004?page=12
Bottom of the page after you click the link.

I think that's what most people were referring to unless there's something else he said in regards to the K. Rool trailer. Doesn't really help his credibility in any way imo.

 

[Deleted member]

Apparently some people may have find out why FF only has 2 themes in the game. Apparently even within in house, there's licensing hell at SE involving the various composers. It's supposedly expensive to license their music. Which has happened with FF XIV.

This makes sense, but isn't Final Fantasy VII's soundtrack only done by Nobuo Uematsu? Couldn't they at least get other music from FFVII? Music rights are complicated, so there's likely something I'm missing here. I probably have no idea what I'm talking about

 

[Shroob]

Does this mean when the Black Shadow Echo trailer hits, we'll get to see Deathborn Choke Black Shadow like he does in the intro for GX's Story mode and tell him "BLACK SHADOW... YOU'VE FAILED AGAIN... YOU GOOD FOR NOTHING..."

Personally, I'd prefer a reference to this classic:

 

[XLIFE]

He had the entire storyboard for K. Rool's reveal trailer described beforehand.

He specifically mentioned "everyone is here" before launch. Verg only said "no cuts", which isn't the same.

His E3 info dump was also more accurate than Verg.

The storyboard thing might have been his undoing.


The more I watch the trailers, the more they seem to possibly involve the story mode. They feature those odd character combinations with character introductions similar to Subspace. I think that idea is what one of the leakers from the last session was banking on as well.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Personally, I'd prefer a reference to this classic:

Honestly I'm not going to lie about that...

That will go directly in front of what I just said...

I think we may have made the hypest reveal trailer

 

[Master_Gamer]

Chrom is a bastardised ensemble of Ike and Roy.
Luigi is just an ensemble of Mario and Pikachu (and Dr. Mario too considering he has Mario's old down B).
By this logic, they should both be echoes.

Ok so what I was thinking was right. No, sorry, but that's now how that works. Cause then Toon Link and Young Link would be clones. I'm sure what separates fighters from being Echo or unique depends on probably a lot.

To use Mario and Luigi for example, Luigi has very different properties and frame data, as well as different moves. The reason Lucina is an Echo Fighter is because her frame data matches Marth's (from what I know). Yeah she doesn't have the tipper so that property is different, but other than that they are pretty much the same. So Chrom will probably have the same frame data as Roy, but the moveset is different. If that clears it up.

EDIT: I'm not sure of EXACTLY what separates characters from being unique or Echo Fighters. I'm just going of the knowledge we have. Pretty much, just because some moves and properties are different, doesn't mean they are unique fighters or Echo fighters. What it ultimately comes down to is what Sakurai decides. Whatever Sakurai decides for the character I'll follow it.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Ok so what I was thinking was right. No, sorry, but that's now how that works. Cause then Toon Link and Young Link would be clones. I'm sure what separates fighters from being Echo or unique depends on probably a lot.

To use Mario and Luigi for example, Luigi has very different properties and frame data, as well as different moves. The reason Lucina is an Echo Fighter is because her frame data matches Marth's (from what I know). Yeah she doesn't have the tipper so that property is different, but other than that they are pretty much the same. So Chrom will probably have the same frame data as Roy, but the moveset is different. If that clears it up.

Actually it's just that old clones that aren't in Smash 4 are not Echos... But the latter are Echos

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Daaaang, Loz knew the entire storyboard of the K. Rool trailer?

I can see why Nintendo would wanna smoke him out for that

This probably means no legit leaks for a long time, especially if the rumor of Sakurai feeding leakers false information is legit (which I can see happening)

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I was watching some smash stuff and all of a sudden this pops into my Youtube History???

Uhh...

These are like unlisted btw

Theres a fetish called "ryona" where its women getting beat up and i came across youtube channel thats just female fighting characters getting beat up like couple weeks ago in my recommendations

Youtube is wild

oh wait these are official nvm

 

[Master_Gamer]

Actually it's just that old clones that aren't in Smash 4 are not Echos... But the latter are Echos

Yeah yeah, I mentioned that earlier I think >_<

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm trying to understand why that seems like a likely option, because the idea of feeding him one piece of incorrect info buried in a bunch of other things that, so far, have showed up true, seems like a reach in your scenario. Would you mind clarifying?

I just don't see why this one piece of info would be fake, because it doesn't benefit anyone. If loz works at Nintendo, then he has nothing to gain by planting fake info with real stuff as the detail he has the correct info in will still garner attention (being the K. Rool reveal trailer, which he had pretty much spelt out before the direct). Meanwhile, if his source works at Nintendo and is trying to leak info, they also don't have anything to gain by including false info for the same reason as before, as the details for the correct stuff matters so much more than the percentage of correct information.

It's widely believed that this time around Nintendo is using any means necessary to prevent actual leaks for the game from getting out. Some anons on 4chan have testified to this, but it's impossible to know if they're telling the truth. Part of this involves intentionally giving false information to employees and passing it off as the truth. I personally think that different departments get different fake information, making it easier to trace information back to specific employees. If an employee leaks this information, they can then be found and promptly given the boot, have legal action taken against them, etc.

So, here's what I think happened in sequence:

1. One of loz18's sources is given incorrect information, but believes it's correct or one of loz18's sources leaks information a select few employees know (like a King K. Rool reveal trailer storyboard)
2. Source leaks information to loz18
3. loz18 doesn't vet his source, and leaks it online
4. loz18's source is caught due to the false information being traced back to them
5. loz18 now needs to "lay low" to avoid potential legal action being taken against him

This is a reasonable interpretation of events given loz18's sudden disappearance.

 

[MrSmashFour]

Ok so what I was thinking was right. No, sorry, but that's now how that works. Cause then Toon Link and Young Link would be clones. I'm sure what separates fighters from being Echo or unique depends on probably a lot.

To use Mario and Luigi for example, Luigi has very different properties and frame data, as well as different moves. The reason Lucina is an Echo Fighter is because her frame data matches Marth's (from what I know). Yeah she doesn't have the tipper so that property is different, but other than that they are pretty much the same. So Chrom will probably have the same frame data as Roy, but the moveset is different. If that clears it up.

EDIT: I'm not sure of EXACTLY what separates characters from being unique or Echo Fighters. I'm just going of the knowledge we have. Pretty much, just because some moves and properties are different, doesn't mean they are unique fighters or Echo fighters. What it ultimately comes down to is what Sakurai decides. Whatever Sakurai decides for the character I'll follow it.

Thanks, I'll stop posting at 4 AM

 

[Will]

Chrom is a bastardised ensemble of Ike and Roy.
Luigi is just an ensemble of Mario and Pikachu (and Dr. Mario too considering he has Mario's old down B).
By this logic, they should both be echoes.

Your logic is outdated and, more importantly, just straight wrong.

 

[Knight Dude]

If the game does have a story mode, just have Captain Falcon sacrifice himself to save the other heroes and even the villains from the final boss. By saving them, he saves Videogames as a whole.

It'd also explain the lack of F-Zero games, as Smash Ultimate is actually the long awaited sequel to F-Zero GX in terms of lore.

 

[Deleted member]

I was watching some smash stuff and all of a sudden this pops into my Youtube History???

Uhh...

These are like unlisted btw

I love the confetti that comes from the blast.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but Nintendo Switch Online just confirmed to be coming in the second half of September. Expect a Nintendo Direct in the first half of September detailing Smash Online and we could also potentially get a newcomer reveal.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I keep thinking about the fact that Ritchard Belmont is a sort of obscure but also famous fighter that they used for an Echo... I kinda think that it may lead to some revelations later on the line, but I'm probably going to say that there may be popular picks who will hold an obscure prise in them. Like a Kinder Egg...
Like how a Black Shadow Echo will bring about Deathborn

 

[Will]

I keep thinking about the fact that Ritchard Belmont is a sort of obscure but also famous fighter that they used for an Echo... I kinda think that it may lead to some revelations later on the line, but I'm probably going to say that there may be popular picks who will hold an obscure prise in them. Like a Kinder Egg...
Like how a Black Shadow Echo will bring about Deathborn

Richter only seems obscure if you're not into the Castlevania series. It's kinda like how you don't think Shulk is that big until you learn what a Xenoblade even means. seriously why did they even add xeno to it

If the game does have a story mode, just have Captain Falcon sacrifice himself to save the other heroes and even the villains from the final boss. By saving them, he saves Videogames as a whole.

It'd also explain the lack of F-Zero games, as Smash Ultimate is actually the long awaited sequel to F-Zero GX in terms of lore.

Why not use the GBA Falcon who- oh wait he's already dead from doing the same thing

Spoiler

actually he's alive in Climax but we don't talk about that game

 

[AreJay25]

If the game does have a story mode, just have Captain Falcon sacrifice himself to save the other heroes and even the villains from the final boss. By saving them, he saves Videogames as a whole.

It'd also explain the lack of F-Zero games, as Smash Ultimate is actually the long awaited sequel to F-Zero GX in terms of lore.

Considering that game literally ends with him going against the gods of racing, I wouldn't even question this.

 

[Starbound]

Wait, Loz had the K.Rool trailer down?

Can I get a link to this?

I think people are mixing things up a little bit. He said way back before E3 that there might be some sort of Heroes vs Villains theme to the game. That's probably what people are referencing.

Yeah, that is potentially huge.

I'd really like a link please.

Here

He didn't outright say it was K. Rool (and honestly, I'm really glad he didn't because the global reactions to his reveal have been the stuff of legends) but he knew it was going off of these posts from last week. The Heroes vs Villains theme he's been talking about isn't actually for the game, but used for an upcoming trailer (so his source did or saw the storyboarding/cinematic scripts). So he also knew about the direct and that K. Rool was coming. Remember that conflict with Verg from earlier in the week about "No DK newcomers". This is why he disagreed.

What we basically got at the beginning of K. Rool's reveal was Heroes vs Villains. Granted, it was called "The Rivals", but it still had a Heroes vs Villains theme, and if the source worked in storyboarding, he likely had no info as to what the cinematic was going to be called.

So basically, when we've been thinking about the Heroes vs Villains theme with Dark Samus, Ridley, K. Rool, Dracula and Rathalos, they aren't actually part of some overarching theme for a story mode like we thought. It could still happen, of course, since anything is possible at this point.

 

[XLIFE]

Yeah, that is potentially huge.

I'd really like a link please.

I didn't find the direct source since he posts on multiple unrelated threads without standing out, but the people at Gamefaqs back up that he did say it on another thread long before. And he says he PM'd a guy during June about it.

This is the source of that:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76883130/906507843

He details that Nintendo are bringing characters in for a reason and he talks about K Rool and Skull Kid. This was in June 15.

 

[Jetsurge]

Apparently some people may have find out why FF only has 2 themes in the game. Apparently even within in house, there's licensing hell at SE involving the various composers. It's supposedly expensive to license their music. Which has happened with FF XIV.

Hopefully this won't be the case for Geno and Mario RPG music. Yoko Shimomura already has many songs in this game.

 

[N3ON]

The more I watch the trailers, the more they seem to possibly involve the story mode. They feature those odd character combinations with character introductions similar to Subspace. I think that idea is what one of the leakers from the last session was banking on as well.

So did the Smash 4 trailers. These are styled quite similarly.

 

[Wambo]

If there was a reason for Black Knight to no longer be in the background of Castle Siege, I say it's because he's a boss in whatever the secret mode is, though I'd actually like it if Fire Emblem finally had a villain character (then again, "battle of the heroes" makes more sense).

I'm kinda wondering if Sakurai is hiding more than we think. I mean, I don't want to over-hype anyone or sound ungrateful/greedy here, but 5 characters in this direct?! That's absolutely insane. He said there's a "few more characters" to reveal later, and if K.Rool was part of that or Sakurai was just trolling again, that could mean either 1-2 or just as many as we got here.

Geno is almost certainly in at this point. Assuming Ridley/K.Rool took the brunt of the development time, the time to add Geno was probably WAAAY faster. Plus the "Sakurai's mech's gun" argument makes too much sense.

>Geno
>Skull Kid?
>Black Shadow ɛ
>Black Knight ɛ
>Shadow ɛ
>Isabelle ɛ
>Zack? ɛ
>Gardevoir/Incineroar/I don't really know who else cuz PokeMon
>Banjo-Kazooie? (Kinda doubt it)
>Goku (Makes sense as DLC at this point, with the "sun punch" think from K.Rool's trailer and Wolf's Yamcha pose)

EDIT: I really don't think Isaac is in.

 

[Shroob]

So basically, we now have Schrodinger's Box with Loz.


We have no way of knowing if his leak is real or fake, despite him having legitimate information in the past.

 

[Mc.Rad]

So basically, we now have Schrodinger's Box with Loz.


We have no way of knowing if his leak is real or fake, despite him having legitimate information in the past.

he honestly has the same situation with his sources as well... We may not get any good leaks at all... Unless somebody does another Belmont

 

[Starbound]

So basically, we now have Schrodinger's Box with Loz.


We have no way of knowing if his leak is real or fake, despite him having legitimate information in the past.

Sounds like it.

...Why did it have to be Skull Kid that gets put in leak limbo? ;_;

 

[SlickWylde]

I noticed Dark Samus has a normal roll instead of the morph ball dodge thing Samus has. I wonder if that's gonna mean anything in the long run.


Baby Bowser as a Bowser Jr. Echo.
boom

ESAM (pretty well known Samus/Pikachu player) did a video about that, and he thinks it will automatically make her a lot better. I think he was exaggerating a bit, but he said that roll will actually move her up a whole tier. (He used the example of Low tier to mid tier, or from mid tier to high tier)

 

[MainJPW]

You know the dead Mario, Luigi, Mega Man, Dedede thing, and then the potential Spirits mode.

Uhhhh....who routinely gets brought back from the dead and has a means of bringing back the dead?

Goku.

Dear god, Sakurai please tell me you actually didn't.

Please tell me you didn't.

I just saw Alpharad's video where he mention's the same thing LMAO.

That Donkey Kong punch scene and the Dragon Ball Super fight look way too similar come to think of it. There's your Goku representation; it's spread throughout the game through Super Sonic, Lucario's English voice and this scene in King K. Rool's trailer.

FIN.

 

[Knight Dude]

I keep thinking about the fact that Ritchard Belmont is a sort of obscure but also famous fighter that they used for an Echo... I kinda think that it may lead to some revelations later on the line, but I'm probably going to say that there may be popular picks who will hold an obscure prise in them. Like a Kinder Egg...
Like how a Black Shadow Echo will bring about Deathborn

I don't care how foolish it is, I'm holding out for that 8% chance Protoman could be Mega Man's echo. And they show up in each other's Final Smash. Fox and Falco are kind of implied to do something similar anyway.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I don't care how foolish it is, I'm holding out for that 8% chance Protoman could be Mega Man's echo. And they show up in each other's Final Smash. Fox and Falco are kind of implied to do something similar anyway.

Hey...

Maybe this means that Kumatora could still be a thing...

 

[RandomAce]

He wears red and is really far in the back.
Plus, it's not like many people picked Castle to begin with.

I picked Castle a lot. It was a fun stage , especially the music.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

If my math is correct, to do every possible matchup, on every possible stage, there are over 200,000,000,000,000,000 possibilities. And that's without the full character and stage roster revealed.

This is also only factoring in the default versions of each stage. Omega and Battlefield versions not included.

 

[MysticKnives]

So we’re potentially left in he dark again? I’m cool wit dat

 

[SlickWylde]

Ugh...
Guys, I know it won't happen... but at the same time I'm worried. I have a bad gut feeling. I know it's "Impossible". Or at least it should be.

But I have a feeling that Goku IS going to be in the game. Please make me feel better. Explain to me that Sakurai is still sticking to his "Must be a video game character" rule. Please.

 

[MainJPW]

Hey...

Maybe this means that Kumatora could still be a thing...

I'd like Masked Man but... that would be neat... That would be REALLY neat...

 

[XLIFE]

So did the Smash 4 trailers. These are styled quite similarly.

We had characters playing Kart racing, the invitation trailer, and characters just showcasing their moveset or the idea of them. The only trailers that felt like they were tied into something were Robin's, Shulks, and Palutena's. The latter having the obvious issue of the stylistic difference.

I wouldn't say they were.