Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MalcolmBelmont]

8 true Newcomers is not that much (one of the lowest) plus having 4 more newcomers and 4 echo fighters would line up the roster pretty well in my opinion

I think it's going to turn out:

September: 1 Newcomer and 1 Echo Fighter
October: 1 Newcomer and 1 Echo Fighter
November: 2 Newcomers and 2 Echo Fighters

 

[Esquelen]

My Wishlist:

1º Chorus Kids
2º Ashley
3º Wolf
4º Isabelle
5º Shantae
6º Mimikyu

 

[Ze Diglett]

What are y’all’s opinions of Geno’s chances now post-Ridley & K. Rool?

In my opinion, they've skyrocketed. Ridley and Rool are, as far as I'm concerned, proof positive that fanservice is the key factor to most, if not all the newcomers to be in this game, and of the trifecta of speculation, Geno's the only one left and the one Sakurai personally wants the most, so I can't really imagine anyone having priority over him at this point other than maybe a Pokemon newcomer or Bandana Dee.
In the end, though, it all depends on whether Square Enix is willing to play ball. I have a feeling they are, since they already have with the Geno costume in Smash 4, and I feel the low music count for FF7 is just Square Enix being overprotective of their flagship franchise. What reason would they have to be protective of Geno, a character they haven't used in decades and likely are never going to use bar the possibility of another SMRPG?

 

[Deleted member]

Offtopic:


So, today I learned something that I found kind of amusing. For all the wrong reasons.

The Japanese word for wife is: 家内 (kanai). Which literally translates into "inside house." Kanji on the left is the one for 'house,' kanji on the right is the one for 'inside.' Dunno, I chuckled to myself about that one. Guess the Japanese are just less sensitive to political correctness than most westerners really.

It's not so different from Spanish now that I think about it, where the word for wife there is: "Esposa" which can also mean "shackles," or "handcuffs." I'll leave you to chuckle about the connotations of that one.

EDIT: Just realized this is the wrong thread for that. Thought this was the social thread. Whatevs-

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'm much more optimistic about Lloyd's chances now with Chrom and K. Rool confirmed who were DLC Mii costumes and released in the same wave as Lloyd.

I'm hoping that September 24th Nintendo Direct rumor is real(my birthday is 2 days before). So far it hasn't contradicted Loz's and Vergeben's information.

 

[SneakDuckens]

1. Ridley
2. King K. Rool
3. Wolf
4. Shadow
5. Tails
6. Geno
7. Slippy
8. Panther
9. Shovel Knight
10. Proto Man
11. Waluigi

My top 3 (and honestly the only ones I really believed might make it) were added, so I'm super happy!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't know if it's final, but...
View attachment 156630
If that's anything to go by, Squeenix is still not very cooperative, which doesn't bode well for Geno and thank god for that.

It could be just Final Fantasy/FFVII in particular though. Geno wouldn't be a FF character, since now Capcom, Sega and Konami have two franchises each. Even so, the fact that Geno would probably fall under Mario, and Square Enix is behind the SMRPG music...

If Square did in theory get a non-FF rep, I'd sooner expect Neku from The World Ends With You; popular DS game that received an iOS port, coming to Switch now, and a lot of fan recognition.

 

[osby]

I bet we are going to get a charcters that appeals more to the Japanese Audience some time soon considering the recent charcters aren't really Japanese favourites

They got Inklings, Richter, Chrom and K.Rool.
They were all pretty popular in Japan.

 

[Pakky]

Hey everybody, I'm back and it's time for another Guybrush20X6 crackpot theory!

So the direct confirmed they're going all in on echos, even to the point of giving some minor move differences (I guess Chrom's suicidal recovery is to stop him outshining Roy with his balanced blade) and that third parties are getting Echos with Richter.

So my random, circumstantial based theory is that all 3rd party companies will get three characters, with one series getting an echo.

So things look like this (new ones in bold)

Konami: Snake, Simon, Richter
Sega: Sonic, Bayonetta, Shadow
Capcom: Mega Man, Ryu, either Ken or Roll
Namco: Pac-Man, Hehatchi, either Ms. Pac-Man, Kazuya or Jin
Square Enix: Cloud, Zack, Geno

This way everyone gets in on the amiibo monies. And people like me enable them.

What do you think?

Konami: Snake, Simon, Richter, Billy or Jimmy Lee
Sega: Sonic, Bayonetta,Jeanne, Shadow, and or Tails
Capcom: Mega Man, Ryu, either Ken, Chun-Li, or Roll
Namco: Pac-Man, Hehatchi or Gil
Square Enix: Cloud, Zack, Geno Tifa??

 

[Irarius]

Okay, gave it some thought.
Original Newcomers

68 - Tails​

69 - Isaac​

70 - Sephiroth or Tifa (one of the two)​

71 - Geno​

72 - Heihachi or Agumon (one of the two)​

73 - Bandana Dee​

74 - Crash​

75 - Hector​

76 - Elma​

Echoes

16ε - Impa​

23ε - Black Shadow​

36ε - Dixie Kong​

38ε - Shadow​

54ε - Medusa​

60ε - Ken​

61ε - Zack​

Operates under the assumption we'll get 87 Fighters for Smash Down purposes (along with 76 non-Echo Fighters for that sweet, sweet "Over 75 Fighters" on the back of the box), while also alternating between 3rd Parties and "long awaited" 1st Parties until the last, who is Elma to bookend the Smash Ultimate reveals with recent characters (Inkling and Elma).

i also thought a bit about what is possible after the last direct so heres my list of newcomers

echoes

zack
shadow
isabelle

newcomers
isaac
geno
banjo kazui these 3 because after the last inclusions they are the next biggest most wanted newcomers ( i looked up diffferent polls from us and japan for that)

incineroar since its the only gen 7 pkmon that could be in after decideye is out because of verg, and others deconfirmed by pokeball

and now three that are harder to get i guess

rayman
crash
sora

and finaly elma, i think xenoblades next fighter will be elma, we get some robot fighter, and i guess its her following an interview of sakurai


the thing about this list is, it could get like 5-10 more echoes honestly... and the newcomers are jsut my closest guesses

 

[BlondeLombax]

Has anyone placed anime Dedede's laughter over the K. Rool trailer? That's honestly the only thing that takes priority right now: not indie reps, not wishlists, just this one edit.

 

[Deleted member]

It could be just Final Fantasy/FFVII in particular though. Geno wouldn't be a FF character, since now Capcom, Sega and Konami have two franchises each. Even so, the fact that Geno would probably fall under Mario, and Square Enix is behind the SMRPG music...

If Square did in theory get a non-FF rep, I'd sooner expect Neku from The World Ends With You; popular DS game that received an iOS port, coming to Switch now, and a lot of fan recognition.

You missed my point entirely.
I'm assuming that there wasn't a lot of Final Fantasy music in Sm4sh because that was all that Square was willing to let Sakurai use in Smash.
If there aren't more FF songs in Ultimate, that means nothing's changed. I don't think they'd be willing to let Sakurai use another one of their characters if they don't let him use a couple more music tracks.

 

[kylexv]

Sure, I'll play this game:

68: Incineroar
69: Dixie Kong
70: Elma
71: Geno
72: Bandanna Dee
73: Skull Kid
74: Isabelle

16e: Impa
27e: Galacta Knight
38e: Shadow
60e: Akuma

There's really not much I want. Really just Bandanna Dee and Skull Kid at this point.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I'm also confident we will not be seeing any playable indie characters in Smash.

Does Steve count?

 

[Deleted member]

May not be getting Goku but Sakurai gave us some Dragon Ball Z regardless~

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Hinata]

My wishlist is as follows.

1. Ashley
2. Phoenix Wright
3. Rex and Pyra
4. Isaac
5. Joker

Yeah... Not exactly battin' a thousand here.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wonder if my belief back then about only one or two of that list being playable will actually become true?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You missed my point entirely.
I'm assuming that there wasn't a lot of Final Fantasy music in Sm4sh because that was all that Square was willing to let Sakurai use in Smash.
If there aren't more FF songs in Ultimate, that means nothing's changed. I don't think they'd be willing to let Sakurai use another one of their characters if they don't let him use a couple more music tracks.

Well, when you put it like that...

though, part of me hopes Sakurai and Square are at least negotiating for more FF music tracks. The game is still a WIP, after all, so there could be more FF tracks added between now and the release. Though, that's prob just wishful thinking...

 

[Deleted member]

Issac

This is not okay

 

[Hinata]

This is not okay

Damn it. I keep making that mistake because that's how my cousin's name is spelled.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

New game, list which newcomers and echoes you wanna see by number (again assuming base roster)!

At this point, I don't have too many wants, so I'll put in some characters that other people will like too. This is really shaping up to be a great Smash!

36e - Dixie Kong
38e - Tails
45e - Isabelle
68 - Decidueye, Buzzwole, or Incineroar
69 - Dovahkiin
70 - Skull Kid/Urbosa
71 - Isaac
72 - Bandana Dee
73 - Banjo-Kazooie

 

[osby]

Damn it. I keep making that mistake because that's how my cousin's name is spelled.

It happens to everyone. I called Richter, Trevor two times today.

And I call Popo, Pepe because reasons.

 

[Murlough]

Toby is full if it. Everyone so far has been highly requested characters. His listed is bascially the same as everyone else.

Its almost like this game is based on the Smash ballot and the Smash ballot was meant for highly requested characters. A very out-there concept for sure I can understand why this may be tough to grasp.

He called Mimikyu and Ashley as ATs. You can say Mimikyu was obvious, in which case I'd say you are full of **** but you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't say "oh yeah Dank Samus was obvious cause her AT was missing." No. Stop. Enough.

People have been claiming all the ATs will just be revealed later. It was not obvious. ON TOP OF THAT if Dark Samus was obvious as an Echo because of missing AT then Ashley also should have been "obvious" as a full newcomer.

The guy got multiple things correct there is no reason to say hes lying as of right now.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I wonder if my believe back then about only one or two of that list being playable will actually become true?

There's a fair chance, of course Isabelle, Bandana Dee and Elma are all still in with a fair shout, but it's not outlandish to suggest we might not get two out of them. I remember getting a fair bit of criticism for suggesting that this game would likely focus on different criteria when it came to picking newcomers compared to Smash 4 as every game has done things differently, and man am I happy it's the case.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I can't help but feel the last Smash Direct might just have a newcomer dump that surprises us.

 

[Pyra]

I can't help but feel the last Smash Direct might just have a newcomer dump that surprises us.

They did say they're showing off the designs for all characters before the game releases... so, hey.

 

[Cyberfire]

Didn't have a personal wishlist, but I did make a 'prediction' list early this year before the March reveal. A lot of it still to be decided.

Ridley
K Rool
Inklings
Dixie
Crash Bandicoot
Isaac
Rex
Impa
Chibi Robo
Dillon
Bandana Dee
Decidueye
Takamaru
Bomberman
Knuckles
Waluigi
Captain Toad

 

[Onua]

My current wishlist so far
> Fossil Fighter (Probably not happening ever)
> Ashley (Dead, I think. The whole situation is so strange with her rn that maybe she might still get in)
> Medusa (Very likely due to heroes/rivals thing going on)
> Shantae
> K Rool(Confirmed)
> Daisy (confirmed)

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That's a strange thing to gauge. I mean poll results speak for themselves. As far as I can tell, SK is the indie char most talked about, most recognized, the one with the most hype.

I MEAN... he's the one that got an Amiibo.

And besides Shantae, I recognize none of the others on name alone.

That may out me as a filthy casual, but I think the popularity or at least notoriety of SK is important.

It does basically make him the face of indies

A big difference here is that Quote and Reimu originate from Japan. We know that Sakurai prefers characters originating from Japan (only 3 characters on the roster originate from locations outside of Japan, being Diddy Kong and now King K. Rool and Dark Samus) (see also, the criteria for third parties having to be from "globally-recognized series from Japan"), and the western indie genre is too new and still needs to properly establish itself. Shovel Knight was the only western indie character with a chance, and we know how that went. So, let's look for Japanese indie characters that have seniority/have established themselves. There are really only two, being Quote and Reimu.

Cave Story has been around for over a decade (2004), and has been on every Nintendo console since the Wii/DSi (Wii U through the Wii Shop Channel). It's the epitome of indie success, with the whole thing (coding, art, music, etc.) being developed by one person. The game has received mass acclaim since it's release, and Quote has appeared in a fair share of western indie crossovers if that means anything.

Touhou as a series has been around for over 20 years (1996), and Reimu is the main character of the series. Touhou is a genre in of itself, being known as the originator of the bullet hell genre. Touhou is also huge in Japan, having it's own section dedicated to it during Comiket, the largest Japanese fan-event in the nation. I think we're seriously sleeping on Reimu, as much of a meme as she was.

Even Shantae, while originating from America, has seniority, being on Nintendo systems since the Game Boy Color, giving her a chance, if not a smaller one. Maybe DLC.

 

[Pyra]

My current wishlist so far

View attachment 156637

Medusa and Shantae would be cool.
I wonder, a some people are saying Shovel Knight being an assist trophy "confirms" the status of indie characters not being playable but don't think it really implies anything other than the fact that an indie character is in the game now.
Who knows? Maybe Shovel Knight is the assist trophy while Shantae is the indie playable character.

Nothing implies anything in regards to an indie fighter imo

A big difference here is that Quote and Reimu originate from Japan. We know that Sakurai prefers characters originating from Japan (only 2 characters on the roster originate from America, being Diddy Kong and now King K. Rool) (see also, the criteria for third parties having to be from "globally-recognized series from Japan"), and the western indie genre is too new and still needs to properly establish itself. Shovel Knight was the only western indie character with a chance, and we know how that went. So, let's look for Japanese indie characters that have seniority/have established themselves. There are really only two, being Quote and Reimu.

Cave Story has been around for over a decade (2004), and has been on every Nintendo console since the Wii/DSi (Wii U through the Wii Shop Channel). It's the epitome of indie success, with the whole thing (coding, art, music, etc.) being developed by one person. The game has received mass acclaim since it's release, and Quote has appeared in a fair share of western indie crossovers if that means anything.

Touhou as a series has been around for over 20 years (1996), and Reimu is the main character of the series. Touhou is a genre in of itself, being known as the originator of the bullet hell genre. Touhou is also huge in Japan, having it's own section dedicated to it during Comiket, the largest Japanese fan-event in the nation. I think we're seriously sleeping on Reimu, as much of a meme as she was.

Even Shantae, while originating from America, has seniority, being on Nintendo systems since the Game Boy Color, giving her a chance, if not a smaller one. Maybe DLC.

Holy crap Quote would be awesome hahahaha

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There's a fair chance, of course Isabelle, Bandana Dee and Elma are all still in with a fair shout, but it's not outlandish to suggest we might not get two out of them. I remember getting a fair bit of criticism for suggesting that this game would likely focus on different criteria when it came to picking newcomers compared to Smash 4 as every game has done things differently, and man am I happy it's the case.

I've been arguing for some time that there would be a good mix between what's recent around the time development starts and ballot choices. I sure as heck didn't expect Richter or Daisy and the only reason I wasn't caught off-guard by Ridley and Simon was because of rumours. And then the E3 direct disproved the one thing I was most vocal about. I'm still surprised by how many "irrelevant" characters we got, since if you stated that there was a good chance there would be no playable ARMS character in Ultimate nor Rex & Pyra merely 7 months ago, people would have dismissed you.

(only 2 characters on the roster originate from America, being Diddy Kong and now King K. Rool)

You're forgetting Dark Samus. Also, Diddy and K. Rool were made by a British development studio, not American.

 

[Onua]

Shantae would be a great way to leap off of K Rool and Ridleys reveals
Shes been wanted for a long time and would get p much nothing but positive feedback

Also her trailer could incorporate K Rools pirate ship blasting apart a dock and Shantae jumps out to deal with him harassing scuttle town

 

[Roberk]

A big difference here is that Quote and Reimu originate from Japan. We know that Sakurai prefers characters originating from Japan (only 2 characters on the roster originate from America, being Diddy Kong and now King K. Rool) (see also, the criteria for third parties having to be from "globally-recognized series from Japan"), and the western indie genre is too new and still needs to properly establish itself. Shovel Knight was the only western indie character with a chance, and we know how that went. So, let's look for Japanese indie characters that have seniority/have established themselves. There are really only two, being Quote and Reimu.

Cave Story has been around for over a decade (2004), and has been on every Nintendo console since the Wii/DSi (Wii U through the Wii Shop Channel). It's the epitome of indie success, with the whole thing (coding, art, music, etc.) being developed by one person. The game has received mass acclaim since it's release, and Quote has appeared in a fair share of western indie crossovers if that means anything.

Touhou as a series has been around for over 20 years (1996), and Reimu is the main character of the series. Touhou is a genre in of itself, being known as the originator of the bullet hell genre. Touhou is also huge in Japan, having it's own section dedicated to it during Comiket, the largest Japanese fan-event in the nation. I think we're seriously sleeping on Reimu, as much of a meme as she was.

Even Shantae, while originating from America, has seniority, being on Nintendo systems since the Game Boy Color, giving her a chance, if not a smaller one. Maybe DLC.

Didn't Diddy Kong and K. Rool originate from Rareware in Britain while Dark Samus originated from Retro Studios in the U.S.?

 

[BluePikmin11]

What are y’all’s opinions of Geno’s chances now post-Ridley & K. Rool?

I’m personally a bit torn.

Pros:
- worldwide fame and recognition like those two and Isaac
- made into a Mii costume in 4
- Sakurai acknowledged his popularity

Cons:
- only appeared in one game, a spinoff
- sort of a loophole to get him in, his only other appearance was in Superstar Saga and they had to ask Square Enix’s permission (even though granted he has better chances than Sora imo who’s primarily Disney)
- would he be counted as a Mario rep or a Square Enix non-FF Rep?
- would Square Enix allow it, even though we already have Cloud?

Geno has a better chance than ever with older Nintendo characters like K. Rool. Combined with Sakurai acknowledging his popularity AND moveset potential, moving past the issue of him being a one-shot from a spinoff. The only thing that could stop his inclusion is Square Enix, but I doubt they are that much restrictive on Geno if he made it as a Mii costume. SMRPG is also one of Square’s most successful titles that helped the company reach a broader audience with the Mario IP. I think Sakurai will have enough of a budget to be willing to license Geno again as a playable character from Square. Based on the recent in-indirect hint of Skull Kid’s playability with the Moon AT, the rule of appearing in one game will soon be broken. I would be open to predicting Geno at this point. He is one of the most likely characters now.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

E1. Shadow
E2. Isabelle
E3. Black Shadow
E4. Dixie/Impa

1. Skull Kid
2. Bandana Waddle Dee
3. Incineroar or some other 'mon
4. Geno
5. Maybe Porky/Giygas in some way.

It's simple; it's been rehashed; I don't care. These just seem likely all-around, with maybe Black Shadow, Geno, and Porky/Giygas being the ones with the most worry behind them

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So...

This might be an unpopular opinion.

I'm thrilled that we got K.Rool and Ridley was quite literally my most wanted Nintendo newcomer. Simon is a great third party pick. Dark Samus blew me away and Richter is a very nice surprise.

But, I'm a little worried that we won't get many modern stars of Nintendo.

I've always wanted more older characters, expecially ones from the GBA/GC era (part of why I love Dark Samus' inclusion so much) but I also feel that characters like Elma, Bandana Waddle Dee, Rex and Pyra, Springman, and Alola Pokemon don't have a good shot, even though they all have popularity, moveset potential and relevency, and that sadden me. I love the old characters but I love all the new ones too.

This is the ultimate fanservice game and I love that, but I hope that Inkling and Chrom won't be the only recent creations. We need a good mix to appeal to everyone.

People probably disagree but I feel strongly about this. I really want the next character to be someone who is new.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Been saying since Smash 3ds/wii u that a Fatal Frame character would be amazing so I fully agree with the sentiment. At least give me the spirit camera as an item

Its almost like this game is based on the Smash ballot and the Smash ballot was meant for highly requested characters. A very out-there concept for sure I can understand why this may be tough to grasp.

He called Mimikyu and Ashley as ATs. You can say Mimikyu was obvious, in which case I'd say you are full of **** but you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't say "oh yeah Dank Samus was obvious cause her AT was missing." No. Stop. Enough.

People have been claiming all the ATs will just be revealed later. It was not obvious. ON TOP OF THAT if Dark Samus was obvious as an Echo because of missing AT then Ashley also should have been "obvious" as a full newcomer.

The guy got multiple things correct there is no reason to say hes lying as of right now.

no reason to believe him either.

 

[AlphaSSB]

With the exception of Mushroom Kingdom, Flat Zone, Flat Zone 2, Pictochat, and Miiverse, There's no way they're gonna leave these stages out when there are so few of them left.

I dunno, man. As much as I'd like to see the rest of the stages return, I don't think we'll be seeing the rest.

As someone pointed out before, a factor that could have gone into some stages not returning is the Stage Morphing mechanic. Sure, some stages could just be marked as incompatible, and thus unable to be selected, but the selection screen made it seem like all stages are game for the morphing mechanic.

Jungle Hijinx would be incompatible due to having fighters spread across the foreground and background.

Icicle Mountain and Jungle Falls could have difficulties, seeing as those stages are always moving vertically. Could cause some issues, since the stage seems to morph downward.

Lastly, Orbital Gate Assault could've been left out since the stage has so much going on. As if the game could unreliably render the entire stage during the morphing process. Maybe the same with Woolly World.

 

[DarkFalcon]

A big difference here is that Quote and Reimu originate from Japan. We know that Sakurai prefers characters originating from Japan (only 2 characters on the roster originate from America, being Diddy Kong and now King K. Rool) (see also, the criteria for third parties having to be from "globally-recognized series from Japan"), and the western indie genre is too new and still needs to properly establish itself. Shovel Knight was the only western indie character with a chance, and we know how that went. So, let's look for Japanese indie characters that have seniority/have established themselves. There are really only two, being Quote and Reimu.

Cave Story has been around for over a decade (2004), and has been on every Nintendo console since the Wii/DSi (Wii U through the Wii Shop Channel). It's the epitome of indie success, with the whole thing (coding, art, music, etc.) being developed by one person. The game has received mass acclaim since it's release, and Quote has appeared in a fair share of western indie crossovers if that means anything.

Touhou as a series has been around for over 20 years (1996), and Reimu is the main character of the series. Touhou is a genre in of itself, being known as the originator of the bullet hell genre. Touhou is also huge in Japan, having it's own section dedicated to it during Comiket, the largest Japanese fan-event in the nation. I think we're seriously sleeping on Reimu, as much of a meme as she was.

Even Shantae, while originating from America, has seniority, being on Nintendo systems since the Game Boy Color, giving her a chance, if not a smaller one. Maybe DLC.

Actually I think Diddy and K. Rool originated from the UK. That's where Rare was/is right? I believe Dark Samus is the first American made character that's playable.

 

[Deleted member]

(only 2 characters on the roster originate from America, being Diddy Kong and now King K. Rool)

Minor correction, neither of these characters are American. Both Diddy and K. Rool were made by Rare, which is British. However, we do have a single American made character in the roster, as Dark Samus was created by Retro Studios.

EDIT: