Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[StormC]

Shovel Knight being an AT confirms what I always assumed, that Sakurai doesn't consider indies worthy of playable representation in Smash.

 

[Pyra]

If Heihachi is ever playable, I want his Final Smash to just basically be him throwing his opponent off a cliff.

I mean.
It's Smash Brothers. That's the perfect final smash.

 

[Dee Dude]

Shovel Knight being an AT confirms what I always assumed, that Sakurai doesn't consider indies worthy of playable representation in Smash.

....Is it bad that I kinda feel the same way?


No offense to the supporters of course.

Not that I think indies have absolutely zero place in Smash, I just think there are dozens more mainstream characters who should get in first.

It’s amazing enough to the SK crew that he’s in at all so they seem pretty satisfied.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Mio all the way. Her game got a Wii exclusive remake, she could use her Mario alt costume as an alt, she's my favorite protagonist.

I know I'm a broken record, but I really think FF has a chance. Maybe a 10% chance, but a chance.

I’m a bit bummed said remake was only released in Japan and PAL and was too late for Operation Rainfall which gave NA the first Xenoblade, Pandora’s Tower and The Last Story. IV was Japan exclusive too, but at least we got V for Wii U (with Yuri Kozukata).

Fatal Frame HD collection for Switch with the Wii FF2 port included and bring it all to NA please Nintendo and KT

 

[CroonerMike]

So who else thinks we are going to get a few more newcomers but a ton of echo characters?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Gardevoir is Psychic/Fairy
Gothitelle is pure Psychic

They're not rivals.

Ballet Dancer vs Elegant Goth

Sounds like a high school rivalry to me

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Shovel Knight being an AT confirms what I always assumed, that Sakurai doesn't consider indies worthy of playable representation in Smash.

Shovel Knight being an AT confirms that Sakurai doesn't consider Shovel Knight worthy of playable representation in Smash, and nothing else.

Shovel Knight may be seen as the "head" of indie games, but that's by no means true. There are indies as popular as Shovel Knight, if not more so.

Quote, Shantae, and Reimu all come to mind and could be playable.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ballet Dancer vs Elegant Goth

Sounds like a high school rivalry to me

All you’d need is a jock, a punk rocker and a nerd and the trifecta would be complete

(...Quinfecta???)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

All you’d need is a jock, a punk rocker and a nerd and the trifecta would be complete

(...Quinfecta???)

Machamp, Scraggy and Porygon for Smash then?

 

[Enchess]

I’m a bit bummed said remake was only released in Japan and PAL and was too late for Operation Rainfall which gave NA the first Xenoblade, Pandora’s Tower and The Last Story. IV was Japan exclusive too, but at least we got V for Wii U (with Yuri Kozukata).

Fatal Frame HD collection for Switch with the Wii FF2 port included and bring it all to NA please Nintendo and KT

I actually was too scared of breaking my Wii to mod it for Project M, than I found out about the English patch for FFIV and immediately modded my Wii and imported. And that's how I got into Project M haha. Unfortunately I haven't gotten FF2 Remake yet but I'm definitely planning on it in next year. I'll track it down somehow haha.

Fatal Frame is my favorite horror series and I really hope Nintendo doesn't sleep on it.

 

[dezeray112]

I have to ask to all you people who want Heihachi...why Heihachi? Over any other Tekken rep? Jin, Kazuya, King, Nina...why Heihachi?

Heihachi is one of the most iconic characters since Tekken 1 as an antagonist.

In addition, he's been in several crossovers such as SoulCalibur II, Playstation All Stars, Namco X Capcom as well as Project X Zone's 1 and 2.

 

[StormC]

Shovel Knight being an AT confirms that Sakurai doesn't consider Shovel Knight worthy of playable representation in Smash, and nothing else.

Shovel Knight may be seen as the "head" of indie games, but that's by no means true. There are indies as popular as Shovel Knight, if not more so.

Quote, Shantae, and Reimu all come to mind and could be playable.

Shovel Knight was way more popular on the ballot than any of those characters.

 

[KMDP]

New game, list which newcomers and echoes you wanna see by number (again assuming base roster)!

68 - Bandana Waddle Dee
69 - Elma
69e - Fiora (possible DLC if they remove her from the Final Smash by patch, or base game if they’re like “**** it let’s make her the first newcomer echo to also be in someone else’s final smash, we’ve bent the rules before with Samus and that one MonHun boss/AT”)
70 - Rhythm Heaven rep
71 - Isabelle (assuming she’s unique)
72 - new Gen 7 Pokémon that isn’t Decidueye, Lycanroc or Mimikyu (either Incineroar or Buzzwole)
73 - Isaac
74 - 2nd Bamco Rep (Heihachi? Other TEKKEN character? KOS-MOS? Lloyd or Yuri would probably be DLC)

Speaking of, should I revise my roster one last time and, moving Lloyd to the 3rd Bamco rep, make either Heihachi or KOS-MOS the 2nd Bamco Rep? The logical side of me is saying Heihachi cause he was in PSASBR and was considered for Smash 4

But the wish fulfillment side of me is saying KOS-MOS so it could be a Project X Zone 2 reunion of Chrom, Lucina, Fiora and KOS-MOS...

Okay, gave it some thought.
Original Newcomers

68 - Tails​

69 - Isaac​

70 - Sephiroth or Tifa (one of the two)​

71 - Geno​

72 - Heihachi or Agumon (one of the two)​

73 - Bandana Dee​

74 - Crash​

75 - Hector​

76 - Elma​

Echoes

16ε - Impa​

23ε - Black Shadow​

36ε - Dixie Kong​

38ε - Shadow​

54ε - Medusa​

60ε - Ken​

61ε - Zack​

Operates under the assumption we'll get 87 Fighters for Smash Down purposes (along with 76 non-Echo Fighters for that sweet, sweet "Over 75 Fighters" on the back of the box), while also alternating between 3rd Parties and "long awaited" 1st Parties until the last, who is Elma to bookend the Smash Ultimate reveals with recent characters (Inkling and Elma).

 

[Enchess]

Heihachi is one of the most iconic characters since Tekken 1 as an antagonist.

As someone who used to play Tekken in arcades every chance he got, this never stops surprising me. I was certain Yoshimitsu, King, and Jin were the most iconic until Sm4sh speculation.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Shovel Knight was way more popular on the ballot than any of those characters.

Yes, but his game apparently hasn't sold too much in Japan so far. Success across the board is what's needed, chiefly.

 

[Pizzanigs]

So how many unique newcomers do you guys think are left? I say three. Gen 7 Pokemon, Banjo/Kazooie, and I'm not sure, maybe the Chorus Men? As for echoes I don't even want to get into that lol.

I know I'm pushing it by saying Banjo, but I'm 100% in on Vergeben (which I may be stupid for), and according to him we will have some Minecraft representation in the game. And if Sakurai is collaborating with Microsoft, I don't think he'd give up the chance to have Banjo in. Here's hoping

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

I bet we are going to get a charcters that appeals more to the Japanese Audience some time soon considering the recent charcters aren't really Japanese favourites

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Could Terra from Final Fantasy 6 be a DLC fighter?

 

[Billybae10K]

Shovel Knight was way more popular on the ballot than any of those characters.

Sorry, couldn't resist. That being said, we have 0 idea who was more popular on the ballot. We can go off of fan polls and results, but their validity doesn't represent the full 1.8 million people who voted.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

I actually was too scared of breaking my Wii to mod it for Project M, than I found out about the English patch for FFIV and immediately modded my Wii and imported. And that's how I got into Project M haha. Unfortunately I haven't gotten FF2 Remake yet but I'm definitely planning on it in next year. I'll track it down somehow haha.

Fatal Frame is my favorite horror series and I really hope Nintendo doesn't sleep on it.

Been saying since Smash 3ds/wii u that a Fatal Frame character would be amazing so I fully agree with the sentiment. At least give me the spirit camera as an item

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Speaking of Minecraft, do you think we will get a stage,assist trophy, playable charcter or all three

 

[Deleted member]

New game, list which newcomers and echoes you wanna see by number (again assuming base roster)!

68 - Bandana Waddle Dee
69 - Elma
69e - Fiora (possible DLC if they remove her from the Final Smash by patch, or base game if they’re like “**** it let’s make her the first newcomer echo to also be in someone else’s final smash, we’ve bent the rules before with Samus and that one MonHun boss/AT”)
70 - Rhythm Heaven rep
71 - Isabelle (assuming she’s unique)
72 - new Gen 7 Pokémon that isn’t Decidueye, Lycanroc or Mimikyu (either Incineroar or Buzzwole)
73 - Isaac
74 - 2nd Bamco Rep (Heihachi? Other TEKKEN character? KOS-MOS? Lloyd or Yuri would probably be DLC)
16e - Impa

Speaking of, should I revise my roster one last time and, moving Lloyd to the 3rd Bamco rep, make either Heihachi or KOS-MOS the 2nd Bamco Rep? The logical side of me is saying Heihachi cause he was in PSASBR and was considered for Smash 4

But the wish fulfillment side of me is saying KOS-MOS so it could be a Project X Zone 2 reunion of Chrom, Lucina, Fiora and KOS-MOS...

68 - Bandana Dee
69 - Decidueye
70 - Rayman
71 - Isaac
72 - Tails
73 - Crash

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The thing with Indie characters, from what I've gathered, is that Shovel Knight is effectively the face of Indie games. He's had far more exposure than any other Indie, has been in several other crossovers, and even has his own line of Amiibo figures.

To me, it would appear that a playable Indie would have been Shovel Knight or nobody. If any other Indie characters get in, my bet is absolutely 100% Assist Trophies.

Spoiler: Spoiler

It doesn't help that the Indie scene isn't like gaming as a whole. To my knowledge, Shovel Knight is far more well known than most other Indies. Prior to Smash 4, I had literally no idea who Shantae was. I had literally no idea who Reimu was before 4chan made a meme out of her. Quote has been around for awhile, but I don't know that he's bigger than Shovel Knight. I could be wrong, but I'm going to simply say we're not getting a playable Indie. My experiences obviously aren't everybody's, but it certainly isn't an isolated incident.

 

[Dee Dude]

So how many unique newcomers do you guys think are left? I say three. Gen 7 Pokemon, Banjo/Kazooie, and I'm not sure, maybe the Chorus Men? As for echoes I don't even want to get into that lol.

I know I'm pushing it by saying Banjo, but I'm 100% in on Vergeben (which I may be stupid for), and according to him we will have some Minecraft representation in the game. And if Sakurai is collaborating with Microsoft, I don't think he'd give up the chance to have Banjo in. Here's hoping

Hmm, I’d say about three as well, if Sakurai really means not to expect so much then he probably means that in regards to unique newcomers since clones are easy to make.

My bets on the remaining 3? Pre-existing series newcomer, new Nintendo series newcomer and one more 3rd Party character.

Hope I’m wrong and there’s about atleast 5 more.

 

[Enchess]

Speaking of Minecraft, do you think we will get a stage,assist trophy, playable charcter or all three

I somehow find myself still not believing any Minecraft representation until I see Banjo. It just doesn't make sense to me that Sakurai would ask Microsoft for Minecraft rights before Banjo rights

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What are y’all’s opinions of Geno’s chances now post-Ridley & K. Rool?

I’m personally a bit torn.

Pros:
- worldwide fame and recognition like those two and Isaac
- made into a Mii costume in 4
- Sakurai acknowledged his popularity

Cons:
- only appeared in one game, a spinoff
- sort of a loophole to get him in, his only other appearance was in Superstar Saga and they had to ask Square Enix’s permission (even though granted he has better chances than Sora imo who’s primarily Disney)
- would he be counted as a Mario rep or a Square Enix non-FF Rep?
- would Square Enix allow it, even though we already have Cloud?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

What's with the Garvedoir stuff being thrown up? She is coded in the game or what?

 

[StormC]

View attachment 156629

Sorry, couldn't resist. That being said, we have 0 idea who was more popular on the ballot. We can go off of fan polls and results, but their validity doesn't represent the full 1.8 million people who voted.

I'm sure the K. Rool fans were just a vocal minority.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Hmm, I’d say about three as well, if Sakurai really means not to expect so much then he probably means that in regards to unique newcomers since clones are easy to make.

My bets on the remaining 3? Pokemon newcomer, Nintendo newcomer and one more 3rd Party character.

I am thinking we are getting 4 more non echo newcomers. If we are getting a ND in September and October

 

[CrusherMania1592]

What are y’all’s opinions of Geno’s chances now post-Ridley & K. Rool?

Two words; HYPE TRAIN

His chances skyrocketed knowing that this game is focused on the heavily requested and popular characters here

 

[Dee Dude]

I’d say Geno’s very likely at this point, I’m curious to what his modern design will look like post-SMRPG.

It all depends on Square though.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Credit to Reddit user..... Redditisjustawful.


Man, we really aren't missing that many stages, and outside of the meme ones, I really don't miss any of these to be frank.

With the exception of Mushroom Kingdom, Flat Zone, Flat Zone 2, Pictochat, and Miiverse, There's no way they're gonna leave these stages out when there are so few of them left.

 

[justPUNT3R]

I am thinking we are getting 4 more non echo newcomers. If we are getting a ND in September and October

They did say not to expect many characters, and they gave us 8 newcomers, so...

 

[Billybae10K]

New game, list which newcomers and echoes you wanna see by number (again assuming base roster)!

68 - Bandana Waddle Dee
69 - Elma
69e - Fiora (possible DLC if they remove her from the Final Smash by patch, or base game if they’re like “**** it let’s make her the first newcomer echo to also be in someone else’s final smash, we’ve bent the rules before with Samus and that one MonHun boss/AT”)
70 - Rhythm Heaven rep
71 - Isabelle (assuming she’s unique)
72 - new Gen 7 Pokémon that isn’t Decidueye, Lycanroc or Mimikyu (either Incineroar or Buzzwole)
73 - Isaac
74 - 2nd Bamco Rep (Heihachi? Other TEKKEN character? KOS-MOS? Lloyd or Yuri would probably be DLC)
16e - Impa

Speaking of, should I revise my roster one last time and, moving Lloyd to the 3rd Bamco rep, make either Heihachi or KOS-MOS the 2nd Bamco Rep? The logical side of me is saying Heihachi cause he was in PSASBR and was considered for Smash 4

But the wish fulfillment side of me is saying KOS-MOS so it could be a Project X Zone 2 reunion of Chrom, Lucina, Fiora and KOS-MOS...

This is more of a prediction than wish fulfillment but...

68 - Isaac
68e - Felix
36e - Dixie Kong
10e - Ninten
69 - Heihachi
70 - Geno
5e - Boshi
71 - Tails
38e - Shadow
72 - Isabelle
73 - Icineroar

I'm sure the K. Rool fans were just a vocal minority.

I didn't mention the K Rool fans in my original post. Not sure what K Rool has to do with this discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

What are y’all’s opinions of Geno’s chances now post-Ridley & K. Rool?

I don't know if it's final, but...

If that's anything to go by, Squeenix is still not very cooperative, which doesn't bode well for Geno and thank god for that.

 

[Enchess]

What are y’all’s opinions of Geno’s chances now post-Ridley & K. Rool?

Low, but not impossible. Neither K Rool or Ridley are obscure, especially not to the extent Geno is. The only real connection is fan outcry, but I see Isaac getting in over Geno because Golden Sun, despite being dead, is probably a little more recognizable to avg person. That said, while both count as Smash community frequent requests, Geno is a bit more popular somehow.

(Didn't bother looking at sales numbers, so could be wrong on recognizability. But Isaac appeared in Brawl so most Smash players are at least a little familiar with him)

 

[Idon]

As of right now, how is everyone's Want Lists looking?

Wolf
Snake
Ice Climbers
King K. Rool
Dark Samus
Decidueye (or any decent 7th Genner)
Rex & Pyra
An ARMS character

It should be noted, I did want Chrom during SSB4...

Ay, we got ONE OUTTA TEN.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

They did say not to expect many characters, and they gave us 8 newcomers, so...

8 true Newcomers is not that much (one of the lowest) plus having 4 more newcomers and 4 echo fighters would line up the roster pretty well in my opinion

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

There are indies as popular as Shovel Knight, if not more so.

That's a strange thing to gauge. I mean poll results speak for themselves. As far as I can tell, SK is the indie char most talked about, most recognized, the one with the most hype.

I MEAN... he's the one that got an Amiibo.

And besides Shantae, I recognize none of the others on name alone.

That may out me as a filthy casual, but I think the popularity or at least notoriety of SK is important.

It does basically make him the face of indies

 

[StormC]

I didn't mention the K Rool fans in my original post. Not sure what K Rool has to do with this discussion.

My point is we do have an idea of who did well on the ballot, more than ever, with K. Rool's inclusion. We have numerous data points for this. 1.8 million is a pretty small sample size considering how many people actually have Smash 4. And I'm confident Shovel Knight was the most voted indie character.

I'm also confident we will not be seeing any playable indie characters in Smash.