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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Speaking of FE characters, here is an interesting what-if scenario - How different would things have been in an alternate scenario where, instead of the final two characters being Bayonetta and Corrin, we got Bayonetta and Dixie (with of course the assumption in this scenario that Sakurai wasn't looking for an advertisement character and instead selected Dixie based off different reasoning)?
Let's compare.

Corrin:
- Comes from a franchise that already has a lot of characters, two of them being similar to Marth.
- Advertises an upcoming game, in a similar fashion to Roy in Melee (only difference is that it's intentional for Corrin while Roy just had his game delayed).
- Moveset is completely unique, which softens the blow of getting another Fire Emblem character.

Dixie:
- Comes from the Donkey Kong series, but isn't K. Rool.
- Would likely be a semi-clone of Diddy since they're both chimpanzees, leading to complaints due to lack of originality.
- Isn't K. Rool.
- Recently showed up in Tropical Freeze, though that would've been 2 years ago as of her release.
- Isn't K. Rool.
- Did I mention she's not K. Rool?

I'd say Corrin was a better choice.
 
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Being honest, I think a lot of K. Rool fans would've preferred Dixie over Corrin. I mean, very few of K. Rool's supporters were against Dixie, and many supported both of them.
 

N3ON

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I don't think Dixie being a semi-clone of Diddy would have gone really well among the disgruntled fans.
Maybe, but probably better than no DK newcomer, no DK AT, and only one new DK stage across both games...

A lot of people wanted K. Rool, so seeing a DK rep revealed that isn't him would've likely caused a lot of salt. Probably more than a sixth FE rep.
People were fine with the idea of it not being K. Rool. He had a lot of popularity but more people were expecting Dixie by the time the roster was fully revealed. It wasn't until the ballot that his popularity exploded while Dixie's receded. Go look at old rosters.
 
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AlphaSSB

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I would've rather seen a semi-clone Dixie than Roy, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, or Bayonetta. Combined.

Even then, I really don't see Dixie Kong being a semi-clone. She has enough uniqueness to her that she, at most, would only borrow a few moves and animations from Diddy.
 

IntelliHeath1

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In your opinion, when would Smash be released? Would it be a Holiday release or would Nintendo hold it back to next year?
I'm going to say same thing as other people did. It might be Late 2017 or Early 2018 since they really need to release their games on consistent pace.
 

FalKoopa

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A lot of people wanted K. Rool, so seeing a DK rep revealed that isn't him would've likely caused a lot of salt. Probably more than a sixth FE rep.
You forget that a lot of K. Rool fans were Dixie fans too.
And given the dearth of DK content, they would have taken Dixie. It's still a big increase in representation.
 
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Screw both K. Rool and Dixie.

Cranky is where it's at.
He's the DK character people don't know they want. Just like Rosalina was for the Mario characters. :p
 
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AwesomeAussie27

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Screw both K. Rool and Dixie.

Cranky is where it's at.
He's the DK character people don't know they want. Just like Rosalina was for the Mario characters. :p
Tiny Kong hipster here.

Cranky would be awesome.
 
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Maybe I should clear things up before people attack me.
I'm not against K. Rool or Dixie. The whole "screw them" was hyperbole.

But I do support Cranky over them. :p

Though the character from DK I really want the most is one that would never get in.
Why? Because he's just a boss from one game and not even the main villain of said game.
 
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KniteBlargh

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Maybe I should clear things up before people attack me.
I'm not against K. Rool or Dixie. The whole "screw them" was hyperbole.

But I do support Cranky over them. :p
I'm not sure if I'd support Cranky over Dixie (I think Dixie would be pretty cool to see, especially in doubles with Diddy), but I do feel like there's a void in Smash that could only be filled by an old man (white-haired Ganondorf just doesn't count for me). In other fighting games, I've always enjoyed the option of playing an old guy, like Chin in KoF, Gen in SF, Ganesha in Bloody Roar, and so on. Cranky would be a must-play for me, even if just for fun. I doubt his chances are all that great, though...
 
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Maybe I should clear things up before people attack me.
I'm not against K. Rool or Dixie. The whole "screw them" was hyperbole.

But I do support Cranky over them. :p

Though the character from DK I really want the most is one that would never get in.
Why? Because he's just a boss from one game and not even the main villain of said game.
His main gimmick would consist to enter in berserker mode when an opponent eats a popsicle in front of him.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Maybe I should clear things up before people attack me.
I'm not against K. Rool or Dixie. The whole "screw them" was hyperbole.

But I do support Cranky over them. :p

Though the character from DK I really want the most is one that would never get in.
Why? Because he's just a boss from one game and not even the main villain of said game.
While I do agree that specific boss was awesome to fight, he kinda feels like he'd be like Dedede, but more viable :^)
 

Arcadenik

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I think I want three Donkey Kong newcomers.

King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
 

N3ON

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Cranky, Dixie, K. Rool, I'd be happy with any of them. I've had all three on rosters at different times. We already got Diddy, who was the one I cared about most, now I just want another DK character.
 
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While K. Rool is my preferred choice for next DK newcomer, I certainly wouldn't mind Dixie or Cranky, either. I think all three would be fun characters to play as.
 

FalKoopa

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I want to see Cranky specifically because he'd be the closest thing we can get to Scrooge in Smash.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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I'd be totally ok if the only new characters we got were from the Donkey Kong series.

It would be a nice expansion of the roster.

Adding a Dragon Quest character just because it's a really popular franchise that's still going isn't a good enough reason to add a character from it into Smash in my opinion. Mainly because there isn't really a super popular character they could add from Dragon Quest that would attract a large audience.

There's a new main character every game ,and they're kind of blank slates, and not all that popular or memorable. Final Fantasy also get's a new main protagonist every game, but they are their own established and unique characters that people love. Final Fantasy has main protagonists like Cloud, Squall, Tidus, Cecil, etc. Dragon Quest has main protagonists like Hero, Hero, Hero, Hero, etc.

The only character from DQ that I would say is really iconic is the Slime enemy, and I doubt they would add a character like Slime into Smash, because of his status as a generic enemy. There is a reason we got an established character like Cloud in Smash over a generic Chocobo or Moogle.

I think the character themselves are more important than the series they come from. Someone like Geno would probably garner more interest than any of the characters Dragon Quest has to offer. Outside of Japan anyway.

That's another thing; while Dragon Quest is absurdly popular in Japan it's reception in the west is nowhere close to matching it. All of the games have sold significantly more in Japan than the rest of the world combined, and when you consider just how small Japan is that's kind of sad.

Maybe the people in Japan would absolutely love generic Hero or generic Slime to be in Smash, but if they want the 3rd party characters to appeal to a worldwide audience I don't think it's a good idea.

Man this went on longer than I intended.
Also no one cares about the stuff I said here, huh? No that's cool, that's totally... fine.
 

Ridley_Prime

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I have this dream that there would be a trailer that makes people think we are getting a new DreamMix TV World Fighters game for Switch when it shows Snake, Bomberman, and Simon Belmont battling each other and then suddenly Mario, Link, and Pikachu show up and it turns out to be a Smash trailer after all, confirming Snake, Bomberman, and Simon Belmont for Smash... kinda like how people thought we were getting a new Kirby Air Ride game, then we thought it was a Kirby Air Ride x Mario Kart crossover game, then it turned out to be a Smash trailer confirming Rosalina for Smash.
I feel ya. Didn't look at it that way though, so was mostly disappointed we didn't get a Rainbow Road that good looking in-game as shown in the trailer, but a less pretty version on Smash 3DS...

I would've rather seen a semi-clone Dixie than Roy, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, or Bayonetta. Combined.

Even then, I really don't see Dixie Kong being a semi-clone. She has enough uniqueness to her that she, at most, would only borrow a few moves and animations from Diddy.
I liked Bayo, but yeah, I can agree to this honestly. Cranky still would've been fine with as well.
 

Curious Villager

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I am going to find it quite ironic if we ever came to a point where people started complaining about us getting too many female/villain characters or that Sakurai has a DK/Metroid bias.

I'd personally like Cranky myself yes, and perhaps K.Rool too. I've mainly grown up with DK64 so I don't really have as much of an attachment to Dixie though....
 
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Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
I am going to find it quite ironic if we ever came to a point where people started complaining about us getting too many female/villain characters or that Sakurai has a DK/Metroid bias.
People actually complained that there were too many female characters after Palutena's reveal even though they only make up like 1/4th of the roster and some of them are secondary alts.

K.Rool's eye still weirds me out, it looks infected. I'll only accept him in smash if they tone that bloodshot eye down.

Also no one cares about the stuff I said here, huh? No that's cool, that's totally... fine.
We all silently agreed with you.
Seeing as how I've never played a DQ game, and likely never will, are there any specific non-named iconic characters from it across the games? something like Black Mage or White Mage? or default name for the protagonist like Robin?
 
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Ridley_Prime

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I am going to find it quite ironic if we ever came to a point where people started complaining about us getting too many female/villain characters or that Sakurai has a DK/Metroid bias.

I'd personally like Cranky myself yes, and perhaps K.Rool too. I've mainly grown up with DK64 so I don't really have as much of an attachment to Dixie though....
He has an Other M bias.

There. :p


Eh, some have already complained about the number of females as pointed out, but without making it a battle of the sexes fiasco I'm happy for those who wanted more, as it wasn't an unreasonable increase or anything.
 
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Comparing Corrin and Dixie is super weird since they are absurdly unrelated IMO. . .

I mean yeah any non FE character would probably end with a more positive outcome fro the fans but ehhh

Corrin is super fun and Fates sold like crazy. Plus it means more hype newcomers are left for the future.
 

Kenith

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Corrin is mad fun yo.
It almost offsets the fact that I hate their character in Fates. Almost. Or the fact I would have preferred Azura or someone like Anna and Lyn to be honest. But very good and fun moveset with some really wonky (like bad wonky) moves mixed in.

Not a Donkey Kong fan so I definitely think this outcome was better for me.
 
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I'd rather have gotten King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, AND Cranky Kong instead of Corrin. That actually makes a lot more sense.
No. No it doesn't in the slightest.

And I say this as someone who feels there should have been a DK Newcomer.
 

dangeraaron10

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Well yeah I think I would have been a bit more delighted for Dixie than for Corrin, especially since Corrin's game only released in one region by the time he was announced. It just felt a bit odd that Sakurai said the remaining characters would be "for fan service" if Corrin himself had fewer fans to actually service since his game wasn't out in NA or EU, and being so new in JPN.

I think it irked a bit more people that a character sold for DLC was clearly stated to be an advertisement for an upcoming game, as opposed to the myriad of characters people have clamored loudly for since Melee, you know?

I'm sure Fates was a great game and all, but I'd still take Dixie (and quite a many other Nintendo character) over Corrin.

That said, I'd personally prefer K. Rool to Dixie only because I think he has more to offer in terms of moveset potential and thematic style. And this is coming from someone who doesn't really like the Donkey Kong games that much at all. I'd take Rids over all of them, because I'd love to pit myself against him. Not enough bad guys / villains in this game that I'd love to match myself up with. Hero vs. Hero doesn't get the adrenaline running as much as a good ole fashioned Hero vs. Villain battle (for me, at least).

Who knows, we'll see what Smash Switch has in store.

Also The Stoopid Unikorn The Stoopid Unikorn I like the avatar. Any BotW related avatar is a good thing.
 
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If I had to choose between Corrin and Dixie, I'd pick the latter, but I never minded the former's inclusion.
 

Diddy Kong

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I want Dixie more than ever now. Her absence in Smash 4 despite being considered extremely likely was a major slap in the face. I want her almost as bad as King K.Rool.
 

Spinosaurus

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Corrin was a now or never, if they didn't get in this time they'd have missed the boat. This clearly could've helped promote Fates and contribute to its success, so why not capitalize on that perfect opportunity? Smash practically selling Fire Emblem games is a tradition at this point.

It was a good move. It paid off. Saying this as someone who loves DKC and hates Corrin. (But I always thought DK and Diddy are plenty good enough, so whatever.)
 
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Not a Donkey Kong fan so I definitely think this outcome was better for me.
*unfollows his Twitter account*

Well not really actually, but I can forgive this fault if you play either to Risky's Revenge and/or Pirate's Curse after Half-Genie Hero.
 

Lord-Zero

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DK reps? If it isn't Cranky, I'm not interested. He's the original Donkey Kong. Gotta show those youngsters how it was back in the good ol' days.

@ Corn: I always thought that he'd be the FE character for the next Smash game especially after we got Roy but...the stars were perfectly aligned for him to show up earlier and help advertise FE Fates. I can only hope Sakurai streamlines the FE representation a little. My ideal scenario would be to remove the "Marth clones" or at the very least giving them a huge overhaul but that doesn't sit well with plenty of fans.
 
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KniteBlargh

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DK reps? If it isn't Cranky, I'm not interested. He's the original Donkey Kong. Gotta show those youngsters how it was back in the good ol' days.

@ Corn: I always thought that he'd be the FE character for the next Smash game especially after we got Roy but...the stars were perfectly aligned for him to show up earlier and help advertise FE Fates. I can only hope Sakurai streamlines the FE representation a little. My ideal scenario would be to remove the "Marth clones" or at the very least giving them a huge overhaul but that doesn't sit well with plenty of fans.
"You're going to get Alm, he's going to be a Roy clone, and you're going to like it." - Sakurai E3 2017

Corrin is definitely unique, at least. I don't actually mind clones all that much, but having a fresh moveset to work with and/or fight off is more fun. The character design is interesting; breaks away from the more traditional Fire Emblem styling, though I'd probably say I'm a bit more a fan of ye olde classic styles in the FE franchise. Can't say I was really hyped when I saw Corrin's reveal, more just a feeling of general interest in what the character would have to offer, along with the thought "Who's that Pokemon?" It's funny, because I remember some asking my opinion on who would come next after Cloud's reveal, and I told them "Well, it's not going to be a sword wielder."

Definitely think I would have been more hyped to see Dixie, but at the same time, I'm not really disappointed by the fact that Corrin got in. Now Bayonetta on the other hand, I'm glad for everyone who wanted her, but I was legitimately disappointed by her inclusion over some of the other characters fans have been asking for. She does bring something completely new to the table in terms of gameplay and attitude, I just don't care for said attitude or her design... Elma could have at least had a similar moveset and been more likeable in my mind. But yeah, my personal bias aside, I think it's great for everyone who was hoping she'd get in, and I wouldn't change anything for their sake.
 

AwesomeAussie27

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On the subject of Bayonetta, I wonder what it means when it come to third parties and their criteria for Smash.

She's far from iconic and her games don't sell as much as the other third party inclusions, but that is fine. I think the Smash Ballot and Kamiya's relationship with Sakurai makes it a special case for now. Doesn't mean we would get a bunch of nobodies like Ty the Tasmanian Tiger (it's a bloody shame the game never got Japanese releases) and 2B from Nier Automata.
 
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