Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

You took my response out of context. You can indeed compare the characters I listed with those from BotW. Those characters had just the same chance in multiple Smash games throughout the years and none of them were chosen and ALL of them had more time for a story and fanbase to evolve with the game. If anything BotW lack of focus on characters hinders their chances more so than any other character I listed.

Looking back on previous games Groose, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Vaati, Tingle, and even Impa all made a FAR bigger splash in terms of popularity and character importance.

Even if those characters were more involved in their games than the Champions, there's a lot more that comes into play than just "likeable character was important to the story". Think about the reasons why the characters you listed may have not been added.



Skull Kid's first chance to be added to the roster was in Melee. Do you really think he stood a chance when Ganondorf himself barely made it in? Once Brawl came out, a plethora of new Zelda games had already been released. By then, Skull Kid was just an outdated one-time villain.

Just like Skull Kid, Impa's first major role was poorly timed. There just wasn't enough time to include more Zelda characters in Melee, and by the time of Brawl, she didn't have the flow of recent appearances to seem important.

Vaati has always been a well-received villain, but did Four Swords and the Minish Cap do enough to outshine the other Zelda games that came out before Brawl, like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess?

Tingle may have had an actual chance of making it in Brawl, but Sakurai decided to make him an Assist Trophy for whatever reason. I don't really have much else to say besides pointing out that Tingle didn't do much in the Zelda series following Minish Cap besides cameos.

Girahim and Groose both debuted in Skyward Sword, a game that was released at the end of the Wii's lifespan, received more mediocre reviews than most other Zelda games, and sold not even half of what the previous home console Zelda game managed. Personally, I think Girahim or SS Impa would have worked fine in Smash 4, but I can see why Sakurai might have not deemed them as a priority. Skyward Sword definitely won't go down in history as the next best thing to Ocarina of Time.



Do you see some of the recurring issues here? Some unlucky characters had bad timing. Some may have been ignored for being too outdated. Others debuted in less popular Zelda games and may have been effected because of that. The Champions don't have nearly as many of those issues right now. Sure, they had a subpar involvement in their game, but they're fresh, hail from a popular game, and debuted when the timing was perfect. There's nothing that says we're guaranteed a Zelda newcomer, and I'm not saying these guys are more important. However, compared to everyone else right now, it seems like they've got the best shot of being added.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Lip would qualify, I suppose....if Lip's Stick wasn't an item.
It's a double-edged sword. If the item remains, Lip is obviously not going to be playable. If there's no sign of the item, people will speculate Lip is now playable, undermining the point of the surprise.

Frankly I don't see why Lip's Stick being an item prevents Lip herself from being playable? I mean, it's simply an item. Did the Screw Attack item stop Samus from being playable? Did the Ray Gun stop Fox from being playable (both attacks acted pretty identically in Smash 64 back then)?

Something else to take into account is that items are a LOT less recognizable than characters. Sure, there are people out there who analyze every nook and cranny of trailers, images, and updates, but those are usually very few and far in between. I mean, it took me three months after Smash 4 was released to realize the Fan was dropped.

Also for the "surprise" argument I know several people who were predicting Duck Hunt Dog to make the cut in Smash 4. That isn't exactly what we got, as we had the dog AND duck as a duo, but my point still stands.

Diskun is really the only one that fits out of the list, even if he had a trophy in Melee.
....but then there's the fact he represents a Japan-exclusive system, which makes him highly improbable.

MOTHER 3 is a Japan-only game, at least at the time Brawl was made, and that didn't stop him from being included.

 

[Deleted member]

Frankly I don't see why Lip's Stick being an item prevents Lip herself from being playable? I mean, it's simply an item. Did the Screw Attack item stop Samus from being playable?

a. The Screw Attack isn't Samus' main weapon. It's just a single power-up for her that's used for a single Special Attack.
b. She's not even seen using the item in question when she does said Special Attack, unlike when other characters hold the orb (Melee) or equip the badge (Brawl and Smash 4).
c. Samus was in Smash before the Screw Attack item was.

Not a valid counterargument in the slightest.

Also for the "surprise" argument I know several people who were predicting Duck Hunt Dog to make the cut in Smash 4. That isn't exactly what we got, as we had the dog AND duck as a duo, but my point still stands.

No, you know a select minority of people within the entire scope of the fanbase that merely predicted the Dog on a whim. Big difference to what would happen should there even be a hint at Lip's possible inclusion through the noticeable lack of the Lip's Stick item. That would spread like wildfire.

MOTHER 3 is a Japan-only game, at least at the time Brawl was made, and that didn't stop him from being included.

a. At the time Brawl's roster was being decided, Mother 3 was still in development. Sakurai literally would've had no way in knowing the game wouldn't be international.
b. Lucas was supposed to be in Melee back when Mother 3 was Earthbound 64, which wasn't going to be Japan-exclusive.
c. One example of an exception does not make a good counterargument anyway. Why were Takmaru and Ayumi decided against again....?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

a. The Screw Attack isn't Samus' main weapon. It's just a single power-up for her that's used for a single Special Attack.
b. She's not even seen using the item in question when she does said Special Attack, unlike when other characters hold the orb (Melee) or equip the badge (Brawl and Smash 4).
c. Samus was in Smash before the Screw Attack item was.

Not a valid counterargument in the slightest.



No, you know a select minority of people within the entire scope of the fanbase that merely predicted the Dog on a whim. Big difference to what would happen should there even be a hint at Lip's possible inclusion through the noticeable lack of the Lip's Stick item. That would spread like wildfire.



a. At the time Brawl's roster was being decided, Mother 3 was still in development. Sakurai literally would've had no way in knowing the game wouldn't be international.
b. Lucas was supposed to be in Melee back when Mother 3 was Earthbound 64, which wasn't going to be Japan-exclusive.
c. One example of an exception does not make a good counterargument anyway. Why were Takmaru and Ayumi decided against again....?

Fair points. I won't continue this argument further and make it a pain for everyone else.
Just replace that entire list with the guy from Urban Champion, who'd frankly fit better with Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt than half the reps on that list.

 

[Deleted member]

Fair points. I won't continue this argument further and make it a pain for everyone else.
Just replace that entire list with the guy from Urban Champion, who'd frankly fit better with Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt than half the reps on that list.

He was on the same list of characters Sakurai considered and decided against in favor of the Ice Climbers as Balloon Fighter and Bubbles.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

He was on the same list of characters Sakurai considered and decided against in favor of the Ice Climbers as Balloon Fighter and Bubbles.

Considering you seem to have more knowledge than me (not intended to be a passive-aggressive remark mind you), who would you think fit with Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt?

 

[Cosmic77]

Considering you seem to have more knowledge than me (not intended to be a passive-aggressive remark mind you), who would you think fit with Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt?

This masterpiece right here.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

Considering you seem to have more knowledge than me (not intended to be a passive-aggressive remark mind you), who would you think fit with Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt?

Honestly, it's really hard to predict. I suppose that's ironically the point.

Though assuming we don't get someone else to represent the fighting style, one possible candidate (two, technically, but it's one or the other) would be Fighter Hayabusa or Star Man from Pro Wrestling.

The former is considered to be the main character, while the latter has more of a cultural impact with a Pro Wrestling Syndicate in New Jersey featuring someone being a "real" Star Man (and even getting escorted out of a WWE show in a publicity stunt).

As of yet, Pro Wrestling has had little to no acknowledgement in Smash. Which would make a surprise unlockable fighter all the more effective.

This masterpiece right here.

Spoiler

....

You are aware that the very fact Sheriff is an Assist in the latest game rather defeats the purpose of what we're talking about, right....?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Though probably not a Nintendo character per say, I think a group of aliens from Space Invaders would fit the category nicely.

 

[Cosmic77]

....

You are aware that the very fact Sheriff is an Assist in the latest game rather defeats the purpose of what we're talking about, right....?

...Didn't think anyone would actually take that post seriously. Not really prepared for a response.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I personally doubt are gonna get cut in Smash 5, mainly because I can't see them going "let's turn these alts into clones in Smash 4 but not Smash 5". That and how little time they took to make in the first place.

That said, it all boils down to how much development time is left when the base roster of Smash 5 is complete barring possible clones. I think the three above would take higher priority than others, but I won't doubt that Alph could very well make it to clone status.

 

[Deleted member]

Or for something completely out there....

If Mr. Game & Watch can be an amalgam of the different nameless characters from the Game & Watch games and Duck Hunt can be the dog, a duck, and the player with a Zapper from beyond the 4th Wall, then why not a series of Tetris pieces put together to form a body? :V

 

[Diddy Kong]

As I said above, coming up with a new design wouldn't be that difficult as they have plenty of stuff in the game that could be pulled from to help make it

The Ganons themselves
Gerudo stuff
Yiga
Guardians

From what I said above

Ganondorf may not appear in human form, but the game gives plenty to offer a new design
His arm sleeves and pants could resemble a more armoured Voe outfit. His hair would have a similar look to the phantoms and himself. But about the length of the barbarian outfit if it didn't have braids. His armour can definitely have subtle guardian stuff on it like his current one has Twilight stuff. Calamity Ganon actually has a somewhat Ganondorf face. It would likely be unchanged. Throw in the cape seen on the phantom Ganon dlc armour from oot and some Yiga stuff and you get a pretty solid BOTW Ganondorf. And even an extra small detail could be amber earrings.

Too much of a forced concept. That it worked for Sheik once won't say it'll always be like that for any Zelda character.

That way, a Young Impa from BOTW is easier to implement. And THAT might just have a concept art cause Impa is actually in the game. If nothing else, Paya as a base with a Sheikah mask and the hat of Old Impa is a solid and believable look for Impa. Then again, this also feels as forced to me.

I've seen from videos that there's knowledge of a Gerudo form of Ganon in BOTW amongst the cast. So who knows? A concept art if Ganondorf might just excist. Or what about a sort of mix between HW and TP Ganondorf without the swords? Sheik in Smash 4 seems composite of OoT and the Brawl / Twilight Princess concept art looks.

Problem is, I don't see them going for a new moveset for Ganondorf by anything else but a redesign based on Hyrule Warriors. It might seem unlikely but it's the only game besides Smash where you play as other main characters than Link himself. Shouldn't that count for something?

Anyway, I still want to see a change in the Zelda roster. And if nothing else I want costumes based of other versions of the cast like in HW.

Also adding just one Champion still seems like a risky choice. Not opposed to the idea, but none really make much sense as standalone newcomers. Daruk seems cool to me cause he's a big heavy weight, but Urbosa seems most fitting and she's very popular.

Impa would've made a much better chance if she was workable in BOTW tho. But she can still represent the game by the Sheikah Slate magic. But not outrightely based on it, just one or two attacks like Statis or Remote Bombs.

Maybe we're all wrong anyway and a new Zelda comes out with a overly obvious Smash addition, or say, the return of Midna or Skull Kid or God forbid a version of Ganondorf that's SO workable for Smash you'd have to go extremely out of your way to see him as a semi clone. Or simply a Skyward Sword port. In which it will again be Impa vs Ghirahim.

Ghirahim loyalists are the worst tho. He was in Hyrule Warriors and a AT but nobody wants him anymore. I still think a Skyward Sword character was planned however. Ghirahim's AT is quite damn detailed.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Or for something completely out there....

If Mr. Game & Watch can be an amalgam of the different nameless characters from the Game & Watch games and Duck Hunt can be the dog, a duck, and the player with a Zapper from beyond the 4th Wall, then why not a series of Tetris pieces put together to form a body? :V

Already has the perfect final smash, a literal game of Tetris that the fighters are dumped into. That said I think I'd still prefer Star Man just because he looks slightly cooler

 

[Diddy Kong]

Or for something completely out there....

If Mr. Game & Watch can be an amalgam of the different nameless characters from the Game & Watch games and Duck Hunt can be the dog, a duck, and the player with a Zapper from beyond the 4th Wall, then why not a series of Tetris pieces put together to form a body? :V

I seriously had this idea before. They could base this Tetris Man loosely on Sukapon, and that'd be a great working fighting style. Square blocks as fists are also definitely needed. Long vertical blocks as a sort of battering attack? Random blocks as projectiles? I support this!

I've hardly seen anyone discuss the Yoshi series. Of all the franchises that have been since the N64 original, this one has probably gotten the least representation. The series has been stuck with the singular Yoshi character, only a small handful of stages (half of which are simply named "Yoshi's Island"), and not even more than two trophies (Fly Guy and the one advertising Yoshi's New Island, both exclusive to the 3DS version mind you) ignoring his character trophies.

My question is this; do any of you think it's likely the Yoshi series will get more representation in Smash 5? Maybe not through a new character like Kamek or Baby Mario, though perhaps some new Smash Run enemies (assuming the mode comes back), maybe a new Assist Trophy or some items, as well as a respectable amount of trophies for its own.

Wooly Yoshi. Or Yoshi & Baby Mario as a duo character. Nothing else really makes sense otherwise.

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

What do guys think about a new move for Mario where he puts his arm up ( kind of like pacman's move where he puts his arm in the air and goes through random retro fruits and etc.) and a random powerup appears and he uses it. For example if the ice flower appears it replaces his fireball until he dies or gets a certain amount of damage ( not sure on how much damage yet)

 

[YeppersPeppers]

Honestly, it's really hard to predict. I suppose that's ironically the point.

Though assuming we don't get someone else to represent the fighting style, one possible candidate (two, technically, but it's one or the other) would be Fighter Hayabusa or Star Man from Pro Wrestling.

The former is considered to be the main character, while the latter has more of a cultural impact with a Pro Wrestling Syndicate in New Jersey featuring someone being a "real" Star Man (and even getting escorted out of a WWE show in a publicity stunt).

As of yet, Pro Wrestling has had little to no acknowledgement in Smash. Which would make a surprise unlockable fighter all the more effective.

Star Man is a dream pick for me. We also don't have a character that represents the "Sports Series" of NES titles, which Pro Wrestling just so happens to be apart of. He's kinda got it all: a unique moveset (we don't have a wrestler yet), an eye-catching design (if we're going by in-game appearance, that is. Pink guy with a blue star on his face? Would definitely fit in perfectly with the Smash crew), represents the sports series.

Really, the only thing he's missing is the sort of "importance" characters like G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt have...unless you consider "A Winner Is You" as something noteworthy...

 

[Dragoncharystary]

What do guys think about a new move for Mario where he puts his arm up ( kind of like pacman's move where he puts his arm in the air and goes through random retro fruits and etc.) and a random powerup appears and he uses it. For example if the ice flower appears it replaces his fireball until he dies or gets a certain amount of damage ( not sure on how much damage yet)

Personally, I like this idea but I think a lot of other people on here won't. There's a lot of a potential for a diversified move set with this but it's a lot of effort for one special move which is why I don't see developers putting in the effort to make this happen.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

What do guys think about a new move for Mario where he puts his arm up ( kind of like pacman's move where he puts his arm in the air and goes through random retro fruits and etc.) and a random powerup appears and he uses it. For example if the ice flower appears it replaces his fireball until he dies or gets a certain amount of damage ( not sure on how much damage yet)

I have actually had an idea for a "what-if" Smash game in the past where Mario would have Fire Mario and Cape Mario as transformations a la Zelda and Sheik, performed through up and down taunt respectively. Fire Mario would have stronger ground game with high-knockback attacks with a good chunk of endlag on a lot of them, while Cape Mario, though with slightly weaker attacks, gains multiple midair jumps for an amazing recovery, and both of course have their own unique attacks. This would also play into how Mario is the character made specifically for new players; using him, players could change between these forms to experience offensive and defensive playstyles, to see if it fits their preferred playstyle. And If not, they can simply turn back.

Of course, both you and I know Mario would never get this kind of ability so

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A reminder to everyone about double posting. It's against the rules.

There is however an issue with our alert system; when you try to edit in a quote or tagging someone's name, it won't send them the alert. These cases make it okay, as long as you ask us to merge it via a report or within the post itself.

 

[Deleted member]

What do guys think about a new move for Mario where he puts his arm up ( kind of like pacman's move where he puts his arm in the air and goes through random retro fruits and etc.) and a random powerup appears and he uses it. For example if the ice flower appears it replaces his fireball until he dies or gets a certain amount of damage ( not sure on how much damage yet)

Sorry, honey, but that will probably not happen. Just like Dragoncharystary I, a 56-year-old woman, think it is a good thought but I do believe some of those power-ups like that ice flower example would be more fitting as a custom special or even items. Besides, this idea of yours makes appear over-powered. Not what a lot us are after.

Sayonara

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

I would say to have the move be an alternate but that would be way too complex for an alternate.

Anyways some ideas for the powerup would be iceflower, raccoon suit, shell suit. If you anybody has any ideas for powerups let me know.

 

[christyalmeth]

I think for new characters, with the the success of Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle and Ubisoft loving the Switch that we could possibly see Rabbids and Rayman as playable characters
If I remember correctly Rayman was a rumor for Brawl or Smash 4??
I think Inklings are set and stone with the addition of Inkopolis as a playable stage
I hope the ice climbers come back!​

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

Between rachet and clank or jak and daxter who would u rather have

 

[christyalmeth]

Between rachet and clank or jak and daxter who would u rather have

I would love Rachet and Clank! I think it is more likely because I think it is the bigger name and assume because of SM64 at least some of us played R&C too. The IP has been in limbo and this would be the perfect way to jump start people caring about the series again​

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'd prefer Jack & Daxter but that's just because I have an affinity for the series.

I would love Rachet and Clank! I think it is more likely because I think it is the bigger name and assume because of SM64 at least some of us played R&C too. The IP has been in limbo and this would be the perfect way to jump start people caring about the series again​

You do know that Ratchet & Clank and Jak & Daxter are both owned by Sony right? And that there was literally a new Ratchet & Clank in 2016? I'm pretty sure Mr. Game + Watch was just talking hypothetically.

 

[christyalmeth]

I'd prefer Jack & Daxter but that's just because I have an affinity for the series.

You do know that Ratchet & Clank and Jak & Daxter are both owned by Sony right? And that there was literally a new Ratchet & Clank in 2016? I'm pretty sure Mr. Game + Watch was just talking hypothetically.

I didn't know there was a new Ratchet & Clank, I'm just speaking on what I like the most from childhood!
Sorry about that thank you for clarifying and I know SONY WOULD NEVER but if they could Ratchet & Clank seems more likely to me
​

 

[SlickWylde]

I just want a Viking Wario skin :'( (Like from the gameboy game.)

 

[Kaze Arashi]

What I hope they can add or change for an upcoming/updated smash for switch:

Stages:
-A Titan from Xenoblade Chronicles 2
-An Arms Ring
-A Splatoon/ Splatoon 2 stage like Urchin Underpass
-A Pokemon Sun and Moon related area, like the Aether Paradise
-Maybe a Mario Odyssey stage like New Donk City
-Maybe a Sonic Forces stage with forces music. Preferably Sunset Heights
-A new Fire emblem stage?
-Definitely something from Legend of Zelda BOTW
-To promote the upcoming Kirby game 2018, a kirby stage from said game?


for off and online:
-Update the for fun and glory modes to select a region like in mario kart, as well as a ranked based mode in for glory that matches you with those of similar ranks like in pokken
-A tournament mode that has a winners and losers brackets like in actual competitive tournaments
-Miis for online, but ban miis with inappropriate names


Replays:
-allow the upload to youtube like in smash for wii u but update the limit to 5 minutes like in fg
OR
-allow the option to save as a video for album


Characters (new ones):
-Decidueye: popular pokemon for sun and moon, and tons of references in pokken dx, like acrobatics as a command grab move.

-Inklings: Promotes splatoon and tons of ideas considering the weapons and cloth variety in the splatoon games.

-Bandanna dee: popular among fans for smash and popular in the kirby franchise. Interesting ideas with the spear based on Bandanna dee in kirby games.

-Tails/Knuckles??: Add to the Sonic franchise, popular choice among smash and sonic fans, and even had. their own costumes previously as mii costumes., so why not make them characters. They have interesting ideas from their games. Also check PM and SSf2 Beta.

-Lloyd Irving??: Also had a mii costume that can be a character, and has interesting ideas from his games. Can check SSF2 Beta for my inspiration.

-Sora??: Definetly requested among fans and adds onto square enix character representation with cloud. Can have a bunch of interesting ideas from KH. Can check SSF2 Beta for my inspiration.

-Klonoa??:Definetly requested among fans and adds onto NAMCO character representation with PACMAN. Can have a bunch of interesting ideas from Klonoa games and spinoff games. Can check Crusade for my inspiration.


AND THAT'S IT FROM ME.

 

[Opossum]

What I hope they can add or change for an upcoming/updated smash for switch:

Stages:
-A Titan from Xenoblade Chronicles 2
-An Arms Ring
-A Splatoon/ Splatoon 2 stage like Urchin Underpass
-A Pokemon Sun and Moon related area, like the Aether Paradise
-Maybe a Mario Odyssey stage like New Donk City
-Maybe a Sonic Forces stage with forces music. Preferably Sunset Heights
-A new Fire emblem stage?
-Definitely something from Legend of Zelda BOTW
-To promote the upcoming Kirby game 2018, a kirby stage from said game?


for off and online:
-Update the for fun and glory modes to select a region like in mario kart, as well as a ranked based mode in for glory that matches you with those of similar ranks like in pokken
-A tournament mode that has a winners and losers brackets like in actual competitive tournaments
-Miis for online, but ban miis with inappropriate names


Replays:
-allow the upload to youtube like in smash for wii u but update the limit to 5 minutes like in fg
OR
-allow the option to save as a video for album


Characters (new ones):
-Decidueye: popular pokemon for sun and moon, and tons of references in pokken dx, like acrobatics as a command grab move.

-Inklings: Promotes splatoon and tons of ideas considering the weapons and cloth variety in the splatoon games.

-Bandanna dee: popular among fans for smash and popular in the kirby franchise. Interesting ideas with the spear based on Bandanna dee in kirby games.

-Tails/Knuckles??: Add to the Sonic franchise, popular choice among smash and sonic fans, and even had. their own costumes previously as mii costumes., so why not make them characters. They have interesting ideas from their games. Also check PM and SSf2 Beta.

-Lloyd Irving??: Also had a mii costume that can be a character, and has interesting ideas from his games. Can check SSF2 Beta for my inspiration.

-Sora??: Definetly requested among fans and adds onto square enix character representation with cloud. Can have a bunch of interesting ideas from KH. Can check SSF2 Beta for my inspiration.

-Klonoa??:Definetly requested among fans and adds onto NAMCO character representation with PACMAN. Can have a bunch of interesting ideas from Klonoa games and spinoff games. Can check Crusade for my inspiration.


AND THAT'S IT FROM ME.

Just as a side note, Sora's copyright holder isn't Square-Enix, but rather Disney. Sadly, that's also what makes him pretty unlikely, IMO, given how notoriously strict they are with their IP.

It'd be awesome to have happen though.

 

[NintenRob]

If we got a third party Duo, I'd rather Banjo and Kazooie.



Now if you excuse me, I'm going to cry in a corner again

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Well I may as well put down what I believe the Smash 5 roster would be like:

seem like a pretty solid lineup. As I said, I doubt Dr. Mario is gonna get the axe because of how easy he was to make in the first place, though again that all depends on time. As for new reps, I'd say Paper Mario and (Captain) Toad are the most viable choices. I'd like both, but we'll likely get one or the other. Waluigi and Daisy aren't impossible but their status as spin-off characters probably hurts their chances in making it to the roster; probably will be ATs at best.

have two very viable and very requested picks for newcomers; King K. Rool and Dixie Kong. Dixie seems to be the most likely one, given how she's been in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze and will likely come back for the next Donkey Kong Country game. K. Rool's in a pretty odd position right now; he hasn't made a lot of appearances in recent years (I think his latest non-cameo appearance was Mario Super Sluggers), but at the same time, isn't old enough to be considered a retro character like Ice Climbers. I'd personally like to see both, but again, it'll likely be one or the other, and right now Dixie is looking to be the way to go.

Already discussed and it's likelyhood of getting a newcomer. Midna, Impa, Ghirahim, Tingle, and others would be cool to see, though nowadays they have seemed to fall out of relevancy, If we are getting a newcomer, it will probably be one of the Champions from The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Link and Zelda could also be updated to their Breath of the Wild designs. At this point it doesn't seem likely will be making the return as Toon Link fills his niche as a "kid Link" that Sakurai wants, reps more games, and seems to be better-received by fans.

Depending on what Metroid Prime 4 has in store, could very likely be joined by a newcomer. Sylux from what I hear has been hyped in the past Metroid Prime titles, which makes him a likely candidate. We may also get a design of Ridley that, while big and menacing, is just the right size for a Smash game. All of this depends on what Metroid Prime 4 brings to the table. I doubt the game will be released after Smash 5, as I expect the former to be in the 2018-2019 range, and Smash 5 to get an announcement in 2019 at the earliest.

is kind of a minor series, and probably isn't getting any character representation this time around. However, considering the series has been getting a lot more games recently, particularly Yoshi's Woolly World and the new game coming for Switch, I think it's a safe bet we'll at least get some more representation; items, trophies, maybe even an AT, etc. If we ARE getting a new character, I'd say Kamek and Baby Mario are the best candidates. Maybe a Yarn Yoshi clone if they have the time.

will probably be joined by Bandanna Dee. I do see a few other possible picks, such as Susie, Queen Sectonia, and possibly something that comes out of Kirby: Star Allies, though considering the modern games hardly get referenced, they're unlikely.

will probably see the return of , be it in the base roster or DLC. I can also see Krystal getting in, but it isn't likely.

I think the current cast of will remain, as they're fairly popular and iconic. Newcomers depend on weather Smash 5 comes out before, after, or during Gen VIII. If before, I can see Decidueye making it in, completing the "starter trio" of Charizard, Greninja, and Decidueye. If after, he'll probably be abandoned for a Gen VIII starter. I can also see them throwing a curveball and putting in an unexpected Pokemon - the Ultra Beasts come to mind. will likely sit out again on this one, as Charizard is more popular than them and reps Gen I a lot better. is up for debate really, as like Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit, she'd be easy to make if they had the extra development time. However, considering she's not that popular in Pokemon or Smash, she'll probably be lower priority. If they wanna bring back or a character with a similar concept of switching Pokemon, at least do it right. Removing stamina and type effectiveness would be a good start at least.

Only feasible way I can see get another rep is if Ganondorf gets a new moveset so those who liked the old one could play as Black Shadow, who'd be more fitting for a Falcon clone. Otherwise, no.

I can't see being joined by anyone, considering MOTHER is a pretty niche franchise. I can see Lucas getting in the base roster and as DLC as equally likely outcomes.

is a pretty hard to predict honestly. It seems to have a "rotating cast" of sorts, where some characters would get dropped for a new character that reps a more recent game; like Pokemon but more extreme. Of these, I can see Robin and Corrin getting the boot in favor of a new character from the upcoming Fire Emblem on Switch. Lucina, and by extension Roy, depend on development time left over if clones are to be added. Roy may be DLC again as well.

I cannot see getting a second rep considering the franchise hasn't seen a game since 2013. There are some viable options like Ashley and Mona, sure, but their inclusion would probably depend on Wario getting a title on the Switch.

may very well be joined by , as he was originally gonna be a clone in Smash 4 but stayed an alt due to development time.

may see the inclusion of Viridi, or another character important to some Kid Icarus game that comes out for Switch. Again, I don't see Dark Pit getting the boot as he was pretty easy to convert into a character. Of all the clones though, he needs the most changes; just a different down tilt, side special, and Final Smash ain't gonna cut it this time.

may see the inclusion of Isabelle if she gets upgraded from an AT, but I can see it going both ways. Otherwise, Villager may remain on his own.

will likely be seeing the addition of Rex from Xenoblade Chronicles 2, as I hear that game is selling fast.

will be coming back as the only reason for them not being in Smash 4 was technical limitations on the 3DS. Switch can probably handle them.

I can see both remaining and being cut. She's unique in moveset, but that's about all she has going for her.

I don't think will be cut, as Punch-Out!! is pretty iconic.

will be joined by at least one obscure newcomer; mentions above with Fighter Hayabusa/Star Man from Pro Wrestling, a Space Invaders character, and a group of Tetris blocks all fit this category nicely.

Splatoon and ARMS are a given, with Inkling making the cut as a newcomer and Spring Man being added, with a Ribbon Girl alt or clone depending on spare development time. Chibi-Robo, while niche, is pretty heavily requested and could work. Takamaru I can see being upgraded to playable status, much like Little Mac. If Retro Studios is working on a new IP, we can expect to see that coming in as well depending on when it releases.

are staying no matter what, especially if Namco helps develop Smash 5 too. Since Capcom is having good opinions towards the Switch now, we may see the return of as well. is 100% getting in because of Bayonetta 3, and considering Square Enix and Nintendo have a more friendly relationship now, isn't that out of the question either. really depends on if Konami is willing to cooperate or not. As for new third parties, they're pretty hard to predict as everyone precieves different options and differently viable. With the success of Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, an Ubisoft rep, be it Rayman, Rabbid Mario, or just a standard Rabbid, isn't out of the question. Bomberman, again, depends on weather Konami is willing to cooperate. If indie games are on the radar, I'd say Shantae and Shovel Knight are the most likely candidates. Any of the above characters could be in the base roster or as DLC in my eyes.

could honestly be cut, not only because they're not that popular among fans and a lot of their gimmicks are flawed, but also because of how downplayed they are on the Switch.

Those are my two cents.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I can see both remaining and being cut. She's unique in moveset, but that's about all she has going for her.

If I may ask....

Why does Wii Fit Trainer have nothing besides moveset going for her?

She's a representative of one of Nintendo's most successful franchises period. Wii Fit sales are the stuff of legends.

Moreover, while she wasn't popular to begin with, people have largely warmed up to her (unlike say Dark Pit) and Sakurai saw her as important enough to be one of Smash 4's initial reveals.

I'd say she's fairly safe.

 

[N3ON]

I think the fact that so many people (erroneously) list WFT as a potential cut indicates how many haven't warmed up to her.

Because you're right in that Wii Fit was important and impacting. Her position is as deserved as the rest. But many feel indifferent towards her as a character, and yet others still harbour a distaste for her. Hence the lack of popularity and the claims that her future is questionable, when it really isn't. The Icies went through the same thing. Just because she isn't the most unpopular doesn't mean people inherently like her now.

And fwiw being an initial reveal in and of itself means little. You might share company with the Warios and the Villagers but you also share company with ZSS and the ICs, so whatever.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

To play devil's advocate a bit, I do see what people are saying when it comes to the Wii branding. I don't think they're shying away from it completely but it's worth noting that the only remnants of the Wii branding are the Miis. It would seem a bit strange to see a character with the title Wii in the characters name going into the foreseeable future because of the abysmal result of the Wii U and how it degraded the already casual-friendly nature of the Wii branding itself.

I don't think she's getting cut because like Swamp said the game is a revolutionary achievement. If somehow down the road we get a Switch Fit or some such then I could maybe see a replacement incoming or a name swap at the very least. Until then, Wii Fit it is.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one who would rather see a great SSB RPG, anime, or serial manga/comic book than another fighting game?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Smash 5 will be a lot of fun to play. Like 10+ million people, I'm going to end up buying a copy simply because it's Smash and it will have been years since I last actively played a game in the series so it will last me awhile. Maybe we'll even get Bomberman on the base roster which if that happens I'll get it on launch. Yet I also find myself not caring about what happens in the next game. Sure I'll make predictions but at the same time, I don't care if I'm right or wrong. It's going to play mostly the same anyway and even if Bomberman gets in, I'm still nowhere near as hyped as I was for Mega Man, which to this date his confirmation remains one of the best gaming news I've ever heard. Maybe I'm just getting old.

A great story on the other hand would excite me more than anything else. I have wanted this since I was thirteen years old which is over a decade back. It's now 2018 and there is no sign of this ever happening, especially with Sakurai saying "no story because YouTube spoilers ruin everything!" Admittedly, I think that was just a cover up for him saying that developing both a fighting game and a story was a mistake and it should never happen again which I can't blame him for. Still, something like a Smash RPG would be fantastic because this is something that would be new and mysterious.

With that said, what are some ideas people would have for another story?

For me, I'd liked to have everything be something that Nintendo created if possible, avoiding original characters except Master Hand. That includes the final boss which should be designated to a Nintendo character capable and willing to destroy the universe if such must be.

 

[Cosmic77]

If I may ask....

Why does Wii Fit Trainer have nothing besides moveset going for her?

She's a representative of one of Nintendo's most successful franchises period. Wii Fit sales are the stuff of legends.

Moreover, while she wasn't popular to begin with, people have largely warmed up to her (unlike say Dark Pit) and Sakurai saw her as important enough to be one of Smash 4's initial reveals.

I'd say she's fairly safe.

The worst thing I can see happening to WFT in Smash 5 is her being a hidden unlockable character. She's unique, moderately iconic, and represents her entire franchise. We've never seen a character get cut from the roster due to a lack of popularity alone (or for being outdated for that matter), and I don't think Sakurai is going to start with WFT.



I've noticed a lot of people here think Ice Climbers and Wolf will return in Smash 5's initial roster. While I think these guys have a good shot at coming back, it seems like they're more likely to be DLC. In a vein similar to Smash 4's development, I expect Sakurai to focus mainly on newcomers for the initial roster before moving on to adding a batch of cut veterans as DLC. Anyone else feel like this is likely to happen?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Am I the only one who would rather see a great SSB RPG, anime, or serial manga/comic book than another fighting game?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Smash 5 will be a lot of fun to play. Like 10+ million people, I'm going to end up buying a copy simply because it's Smash and it will have been years since I last actively played a game in the series so it will last me awhile. Maybe we'll even get Bomberman on the base roster which if that happens I'll get it on launch. Yet I also find myself not caring about what happens in the next game. Sure I'll make predictions but at the same time, I don't care if I'm right or wrong. It's going to play mostly the same anyway and even if Bomberman gets in, I'm still nowhere near as hyped as I was for Mega Man, which to this date his confirmation remains one of the best gaming news I've ever heard. Maybe I'm just getting old.

A great story on the other hand would excite me more than anything else. I have wanted this since I was thirteen years old which is over a decade back. It's now 2018 and there is no sign of this ever happening, especially with Sakurai saying "no story because YouTube spoilers ruin everything!" Admittedly, I think that was just a cover up for him saying that developing both a fighting game and a story was a mistake and it should never happen again which I can't blame him for. Still, something like a Smash RPG would be fantastic because this is something that would be new and mysterious.

With that said, what are some ideas people would have for another story?

For me, I'd liked to have everything be something that Nintendo created if possible, avoiding original characters except Master Hand. That includes the final boss which should be designated to a Nintendo character capable and willing to destroy the universe if such must be.

To me mass RPG's don't work. I've only played a few but Project X Zone, as much as I love a vast majority of it's characters, left a bad taste in my mouth. I didn't even complete PxZ2. Plus, VG RPG Stories in general are very hit or miss and the hits aren't usually because the story was exactly poignant but more so because of player pay off and a sense of accomplishment. For example Xenoblade has one of the best stories I've experienced in a game and it's honestly not too special when you look at it, Earthbound has some of the most refreshing ideas and characters of any game I've ever played ever but the story is by the numbers, and Chrono Trigger is at times incredibly convoluted. Big crossovers should never be story driven in my opinion as I feel like the best one to have done that reasonably well was indeed the Subspace Emissary and you see how 'great' that one was. You don't need a good reason to have these weirdos together and that's what makes it special they're the characters you love and they're there and they brought fun gameplay alongside it. RPG's aren't really known for their fun gameplay. So, no to the RPG idea for me but a Brawl in the Family goofy episode by episode anime? Hell yeah! Super Smash Kart? Need that now! Nintendo Party? Sure! The point is the novelty of the characters may wear off in a long story driven video game when there is absolutely not going to be a good reason for them all coming together. Just gimme something fun. I don't need something riveting. That's just my opinion though.

I've noticed a lot of people here think Ice Climbers and Wolf will return in Smash 5's initial roster. While I think these guys have a good shot at coming back, it seems like they're more likely to be DLC. In a vein similar to Smash 4's development, I expect Sakurai to focus mainly on newcomers for the initial roster before moving on to adding a batch of cut veterans as DLC. Anyone else feel like this is likely to happen?

Well, I guess it kind of depends on if it's a new game or a port. If it's a new game I could see Wolf being shafted again, Lucina being cut, Dark Pit being cut, and maybe a couple of others to make development time a little easier. If it's a port then yeah I definitely think they'll make it back in, hopefully Snake alongside them, no doubt in my mind. They'd be in the base game though. Sakurai had stated before that he didn't like making previous veterans DLC because he felt like people would think they were intentionally holding back content to release later a la Capcom. There's a reason Wolf, Ice Climbers (barring 3DS restrictions) and, to an extent, Snake didn't come back in DLC. It's the same reason Lucas was the only character in the DLC that wasn't built from the ground up.

 

[Deleted member]

As the latest roster thread doesn't allow more than one post per user there, I share my latest roster here as I'd like to know what do you think of it:

My turn.

Just like in the previous thread, my roster exists in 3 versions:
- An honest version, which corresponds to what the roster would look like if the next Smash game is a Smash 4 port.
- A standard version, which corresponds to either how my honest roster would look like with DLCs or what it would like if the next Smash is an all-new installment.
- And a deluxe version, which corresponds to either how my standard roster would look like with DLCs or if the next Smash game is very generous in terms of content.

Let's get started with:

Spoiler: Honest roster

Spoiler: Standard roster

Spoiler: Deluxe roster

Spoiler: Explanations

- Characters whose names are typed in italic are newcomers.
- Toon Zelda, Dark Samus and Black Shadow are mainly added for the purpose of keeping most or all of their models' old movesets in favour of getting new ones. Same with .
- Decidueye is the most likely to get cut for another Pokémon rep, most likely for one from Generation 8, but is added anyway instead of a bland "Pokémon rep" slot.
- Bomberman is added alongside Snake as he's a property of Konami as well, and he would be the most likely choice for a second Konami rep.
- Rayman is added due to Nintendo's recent relationships with Ubisoft, notably with Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle.

This roster and its 3 versions will get updated regularly, and I'll put the older versions under spoiler tags to keep a record.

Just keep in mind things would have been different if it was a wishful roster.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As the latest roster thread doesn't allow more than one post per user there, I share my latest roster here as I'd like to know what do you think of it:

Just keep in mind things would have been different if it was a wishful roster.

Just so you know, we're able to quote it from your post in there, via copy-pasting. In fact, that's what we're supposed to do.

Likewise, you can throw more than one roster into your single post. I don't have time to put my opinions of it, but I'll quote your post via that thread to here later. I work within the hour.