Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[L9999]

Ultimate will not fix anything. We all said the exact same things about Smash 4 before release, "it is shaping up to be the best Smash game," "hopefully they will nerf MK," "it will be the mediator between Melee and Brawl." What did we get on release?: We got the Hoo-hah.

The character diversity will only last so long until half the cast inevitably becomes irrelevant. It would have happened sooner or later, the DLC just killed the irrelevant characters earlier by giving them new -2s and -3s.

And Bayo? She isn't new. She was called Ice Climbers, and she will return with a different name.

It just hurts that this may be it's future, and to see it end on a whimper with that EVO finals breaks my heart so much since I enjoyed Smash 4 so much these years.

Smash 4 isn't dead yet, Smash Con is next week.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Witch hunting got legalized.

Witch Hunting? That some Bayo technique I'm not familiar with?

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Ultimate will not fix anything. We all said the exact same things about Smash 4 before release, "it is shaping up to be the best Smash game," "hopefully they will nerf MK," "it will be the mediator between Melee and Brawl." What did we get on release?: We got the Hoo-hah.

The character diversity will only last so long until half the cast inevitably becomes irrelevant. It would have happened sooner or later, the DLC just killed the irrelevant characters earlier by giving them new -2s and -3s.

And Bayo? She isn't new. She was called Ice Climbers, and she will return with a different name.


Smash 4 isn't dead yet, Smash Con is next week.

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine

 

[Idon]

SSBU might not fix anything,
But right now, it's NOT Smash 4, and currently that's all it needs to be.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

SSBU might not fix anything,
But right now, it's NOT Smash 4, and that's all it needs to be.

I didn't think Smash 4 was bad, I enjoyed it quite a bit.

 

[Pyra]

Hahaha the renders

 

[CommanderZaktan]

This might be the last evo appearance for the game.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, if we DO get a character reveal, be civil about it. I don't want to see people going into other support threads and saying those characters never stood a chance if it turns out to be Incineroar or Heihachi or something.

I'd be sticking to the Incineroar thread and celebrating a hard-earned victory myself.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 155768
Hahaha the renders

I'll actually watch Melee if they're running a modded version of the game where Fox's voice is his Smash 4 voice.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Wait, Prog? I thought he retired!

 

[Captain Fun]

I'd be sticking to the Incineroar thread and celebrating a hard-earned victory myself.

Well, us Smash fans don't really earn anything. We either get what we want or we don't. Either way, we're all horrified witnesses to the car wreck that is the Smash speculation cycle.

 

[BlueMagician]

I see staffers with Ultimate t-shirts at the Melee block, I think it doesn't mean anything but I almost read too much into it.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Honestlty, I'm gonna go ahead and say it now, I think we're getting a character reveal this month

 

[Enderwoman]

This might be the last evo appearance for the game.

might be? nobody wants to play smash 4 anymore lol

 

[Fatmanonice]

I can't wait for Melee at Evo to be the same crap as it is every year. You guys get mad at smash 4 at evo being Bayonetta but melee is the same every year. Lol

This. The game had five viable characters: Fox, Falco, Marth, Hungry Box, and Armada pretty much since 2006, practically 5 legal stages, and championships have pretty much rotated between the same six players for about as long. The game's old enough to get a driver's license and buy alcohol in most of the world and I'm honestly surprised so many people have stuck with it, especially since the skill gap between the newer players and the older ones are enormous, and there really hasn't been any major surprises in a long, long time.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Honestlty, I'm gonna go ahead and say it now, I think we're getting a character reveal this month

Maybe after Melee finals at evo?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Think after the next info dump we won't have such a lull of info like we've had between E3 and now?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Ultimate will not fix anything. We all said the exact same things about Smash 4 before release, "it is shaping up to be the best Smash game," "hopefully they will nerf MK," "it will be the mediator between Melee and Brawl." What did we get on release?: We got the Hoo-hah.

The character diversity will only last so long until half the cast inevitably becomes irrelevant. It would have happened sooner or later, the DLC just killed the irrelevant characters earlier by giving them new -2s and -3s.

And Bayo? She isn't new. She was called Ice Climbers, and she will return with a different name.


Smash 4 isn't dead yet, Smash Con is next week.

Smash 4 did end up disappointing from a competitive standpoint, but it was still a significant improvement over Brawl, if Ultimate can keep on improving on that then it can be very good in its own right. It's obviously going to bring with it its own issues, like every game does, but I'm optimistic based on what we've seen, there are still a few tweaks I'd like to see be made (wavelanding off of platforms, further increased hitstun, tone down the knockback), but overall it's already looking much better than its predecessor.

The best thing we can do when Ultimate comes out is to start afresh and forget about all the issues and controversies from Smash 4, this game deserves to be looked at for its own merits and problems. Saying it won't fix anything half a year before its release is being pessimistic just for the sake of it.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Maybe after Melee finals at evo?

I don't think we've ever had a character reveal after a tournament, So I'm not betting on after evo...

 

[Buzzwole]

Maybe after Melee finals at evo?

I really, REALLY wouldn't expect any character reveals here.

If there aren't many newcomers, Nintendo is going to want to get as much mileage as they can out of the few we're getting. They're gonna want to hype them up and get people excited for reveals.
Nintendo hasn't given off even the slightest wink or nudge that we "should be paying attention at the end of evo ".

It just feels like they're gonna want to save the reveals for times where EVERYONE will be watching, not just the competitive scene.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Smash 4 was a huge improvement competitively to Brawl. Despite Bayo being an outlier, it was easily the most balanced game in the series to the point that mid and even low tier upsets weren't that unusual. For a cast of nearly 70 characters, that's pretty damn good. Yes, there was blind spots in balancing but it could be reasonably argued that roughly 1/3rd of the cast was decently viable and that's virtually unheard of for fighting games. I'm also impressed that Smash 4 had 4 different EVO champions for its lifetime especially given that Brawl was booted after its first year.

 

[Enderwoman]

reveals at the end of evo make no sense considering smash's intended broad appeal, I don't see why the competitive gaming scene would give a crap about newcomers

 

[Deleted member]

I never saw Kirby sales decline because of Meta Knight in Brawl.

Except that Brawl's competitive scene was next to nonexistent.
Also, unlike Bayo, Kirby isn't a niche franchise which struggles to meet sales equal to the efforts its developers put in it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Except that Brawl's competitive scene was next to nonexistent.
Also, unlike Bayo, Kirby isn't a niche franchise which struggles to meet sales equal to the efforts its developers put in it.

Actually I've been thinking about what you said and Brawl helped the Kirby franchise quite a bit, it started selling better and Brawl influenced Meta Knight's future appearances, not only has he had a slight redesign to look closer to the Brawl design but he got Shuttle Loop and Galaxia Darkness as moves since Return to Dreamland and Robobot

 

[AlphaSSB]

If we were to get a reveal at EVO, it would've been during Smash 4's Grand Finals, or during the Smash Ultimate tournament. I doubt they'd show it after Melee, even though it takes place on the last day.

Sure, there's always a chance, but anyone whose going into Melee Top 8 expecting a reveal will likely end up being sorely disappointed.

 

[lordvaati]

This. The game had five viable characters: Fox, Falco, Marth, Hungry Box, and Armada pretty much since 2006, practically 5 legal stages, and championships have pretty much rotated between the same six players for about as long. The game's old enough to get a driver's license and buy alcohol in most of the world and I'm honestly surprised so many people have stuck with it, especially since the skill gap between the newer players and the older ones are enormous, and there really hasn't been any major surprises in a long, long time.

I think the appeal comes from spectators mostly. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was ruled by 4 characters and CapCom/Psylocke assist in a cast of 56 characters and yet drew crowds for how entertaining it was to watch for many.
You do have a fair point though- when the top 5 players do put down their controllers for good much like Zhu did yesterday, where will it go? Unless it gets an eShop release soon I think the 20th year may be when a notable drop begins.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Except that Brawl's competitive scene was next to nonexistent.
Also, unlike Bayo, Kirby isn't a niche franchise which struggles to meet sales equal to the efforts its developers put in it.

This is pretty much true. Brawl's competitive scene was really depressing because it was incredibly cynical and most of the top players were very open about how they thought the game was garbage and E-Z-Mon-Aye. Major players started dropping in droves after the first year and the only tournaments that were really worth watching were those without as few Metaknight players as possible. Balancing in Brawl was atrocious but you could probably count on your fingers and toes the number of characters that Metaknight totally invalidated all by himself. There was maybe 6 characters that had okay match ups with him and, unsurprisingly, they were virtually the only characters you ever saw in top 8.

 

[DraginHikari]

I think the appeal comes from spectators mostly. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was ruled by 4 characters and CapCom/Psylocke assist in a cast of 56 characters and yet drew crowds for how entertaining it was to watch for many.
You do have a fair point though- when the top 5 players do put down their controllers for good much like Zhu did yesterday, where will it go? Unless it gets an eShop release soon I think the 20th year may be when a notable drop begins.

I think that would be more likely a Melee Killer then anything else. The passage of time and aging.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm saying a franchise that has never had noteworthy sales has never had noteworthy sales. That's been a thing with Bayonetta since the very first game. Nobody but Nintendo for some reason even wanted to give the sequel a chance because they knew it would sell poorly. Even with Smash under it's belt her games can only manage like 700k on a console with an install base the Wii U couldn't even dream of. You could say 700k sales is impressive for an obscure franchise but the games are by no means "flying off the shelves" like the guy I originally quoted said.

I mean the fact that Bayonetta's mere image get's a garunteed round booing from crowds these days is a bit of a red flag lol.

Still, for a series that likely had little to no promotion for the first game, and Wii U exclusive for the second the series is doing fine (and with the Switch version outselling past games as ports, it gives the series a higher chance in having the third game sell extremely well on a successful console with actual promotion. As for selling off shelves, they probably did sell out quickly during the first few weeks of their original Nintendo release...or at the least the Switch versions

Also, Bayonetta only gets hate in Smash Bros and not anywhere else (her own games, her anime movie, pretty much anything that’s not named “Super Smash Bros” Bayo gets tons of positive reaction towards...though she did have a good reception when she was revealed out of shock factor, but still had some people against her being in over others...and only got worse the moment she was found out to be more of a pain than any other character in the 19 years of Smash)

Ultimate will not fix anything

They’ve already fixed many things

 

[BlueMagician]

Thinking about Melee, I really hope Ultimate's gameplay isn't too fast or too hard to get in to for newer competitive players.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Skipped over due to being irrelevant compared to the most. New Challengers was the first game made on CPS2 and introduced Dee Jay, Cammy, Fei Long and ThunderHawk, but became irrelevant due to Super Turbo coming out and being an advancement in every way, by increasing the speed, adding Super attacks and hidden characters like the O-characters and Akuma. What's worse was they dropped the speed of the prior game Hyper Fighting, which was a huge selling point. This is part of the reason why HF along with ST were the games to get online play on the 30th Anniversary collection and NC was skipped.

WW had the whole appeal of being the first one, CE had Ditto matches and the 4 Kings, HF had speed and CPS1 combos, and ST had a lot of things. NC became obsolete.

Likewise, look at Smash-64 was the first one, Melee has the speed and a bottomless pit of unlockables, Brawl has the story Mode, and Ultimate is getting the whol3 cast. Smash 4 has all everything notable and unique to it moving to Ultimate: colorful cast, all in Ultimate. Mechanics? Re-tuned and coing back in Ultimate. Nearly every stage from both versions of Smash 4 are back in Ultimate and so on. What is left? The Wii-U version will just be known as the lowest selling entry in the series, with Smash Tour, one of the most disliked single Player modes by the public. 3DS might still have Smash Run(assuming it doesn't just get put in Ultimate) but even it's legacy as the portable Smash is gone due to the Switch granting Ultimate the same option on top of being easier to run due to very likely not requiring a SD card to run the game like Smash3D does...and having the Ice Climbers, characters that were only removed because of Smash3D.

It just hurts that this may be it's future, and to see it end on a whimper with that EVO finals breaks my heart so much since I enjoyed Smash 4 so much these years.

I think Smash 4 can make a niche for itself. But it would need to be hacked versions that unlock all the customisation options from the get-go as that seems to be the only feature that's not returning outside of Miis.
Not to mention, the WiiU version has a budding hacking scene and Nintendo won't be watching the WiiU as closely as they'll be watching the Switch.

 

[dezeray112]

Maybe after Melee finals at evo?

Hmm.....chances of a reveal at EVO does seem pretty slim. If anything, I would assume they may save it for Gamescom later this month.

 

[KMDP]

Hahhh... well, I'd like to stay up and see if anything comes of the Melee Top 8, but I have to go to bed.

Night all.
I'm going to leave and something crazy is going to happen, isn't it?

 

[perfectchaos83]

Hmm.....chances of a reveal at EVO does seem pretty slim. If anything, I would assume they may save it for Gamescom later this month.

If I have to guess, It'll be a direct before Gamescom. Outside of E3, Nintendo doesn't have a big convention presence.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Hmm.....chances of a reveal at EVO does seem pretty slim. If anything, I would assume they may save it for Gamescom later this month.

When's that?
Wanna make sure I can catch it.

 

[perfectchaos83]

When's that?
Wanna make sure I can catch it.

Pretty sure Gamescom is on the 21st

 

[Pyra]

I'm trying to genuinely watch these melee fights for fun and between that commentator dude and the awkward sexual tension all the fighters have for each other it's a bit hard

 

[DarkSt0rm009]

Pretty sure Gamescom is on the 21st

Well, It's going to be interesting if we do somehow get a reveal today
However, announcement or not, we already know that someone's going to try to pass off the event as

"Zohmygod guys we're getting a leak of a character reveal of Shrek, Not Clickbait, Please buy my merch"
as scummy of a practice as that is.

 

[Buzzwole]

All this talk of character reveals is making me wonder how they're going to go about revealing Echo fighters in the future.
Daisy was just kinda dropped nonchalantly during the E3 direct.

I'm wondering if Echoes are candidates for random announcements with no buildup. It'd be sort of cool if they just dropped echo fighters as daily updates like they did with newcomers back in the Brawl days.

 

[Pyra]

All this talk of character reveals is making me wonder how they're going to go about revealing Echo fighters in the future.
Daisy was just kinda dropped nonchalantly during the E3 direct.

I'm wondering if Echoes are candidates for random announcements with no buildup. It'd be sort of cool if they just dropped echo fighters as daily updates like they did with newcomers back in the Brawl days.

I really kinda just want a section in a future direct to be "and here's the remaining echo fighters!"/ an echo fighter showcase.