Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

"I've decided the next character is a bar of soap. I hope you all will be happy to use it in the near future."

One fighter Melee players hate more then Bayonetta.

 

[BlueMagician]

Believe it.
It's happening
I can feel it in my mara.

Mara? Now THERE's an Assist Trophy idea

 

[osby]

The Atlus rep is that the full cast is split up in 4 dlc packs, when Sakurai said the starting roster would be like 64, he meant that everyone else is DLC

Isn't that ArcSysWorks character?

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't that ArcSysWorks character?

Super Smash Bros Cross Tag Battle. An actual port of Smash 4, but with only 20 characters on the base roster, all the rest are DLC.

 

[WaxPython]

To be fair Bayonetta is much more cheap than Mets knight was who actually took some tactical know how to play at a high level.

Bayonetta Witch time any monkey with a controller could spam over and over to win games and not a whole lot you can do about it with characters with a poor neutral or you're unfortunate enough to play a heavy like Dedede against Bayonetta.

 

[Will]

Super Smash Bros Cross Tag Battle. An actual port of Smash 4, but with only 20 characters on the base roster, all the rest are DLC.

Isn't Arcsys DLC free DLC? If so, that actually wouldn't matter much. I think it's a strategy they do on purpose to make sure the game is alive by keeping at least half of the actual realized roster behind closed bars so people don't forget it exists.

 

[lordvaati]

Still frustrated from yesterday's finals, but today should be hopefully better all around.
After this though Smash 4 seems fated to become the SSF2 New Challengers of the series when December comes around, which just hurts.

 

[KMDP]

I never saw Kirby sales decline because of Meta Knight in Brawl.
Besides, isn't Bayonetta an M-Rated series compared to Smash's E10 - T demographic?

Being a M-Rated game won't stop 10-year-olds from playing any game.

Super Smash Bros Cross Tag Battle. An actual port of Smash 4, but with only 20 characters on the base roster, all the rest are DLC.

EA variant.
"Super Smash Bros. Battle": It's technically a new game, but only Mario is playable in the minimum amount of Alt Colours possible.

Every other fighter is only playable via lootboxes and microtransactions.

Isn't Arcsys DLC free DLC? If so, that actually wouldn't matter much. I think it's a strategy they do on purpose to make sure the game is alive by keeping at least half of the actual realized roster behind closed bars so people don't forget it exists.

Dragon Ball FighterZ DLC ain't free, and that's an ArcSYS game.

 

[Will]

Being a M-Rated game won't stop 10-year-olds from playing any game.

Oh God do we really want 10 year olds playing this

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't Arcsys DLC free DLC?

In the case of Cross Tag Battle specifically, no. The RWBY characters are free, and when the first pack launched, it was free for a limited time, but everything else is paid, meaning 18 out of 40 characters are paid DLC if you were to buy the game a few weeks after its launch.

 

[ThatRedPlumber]

Bayo already seems greatly nerfed in Ultimate. I feel like they can do a much better job at nerfing her with a new game than they ever could with a patch, because the game mechanics are different and they don’t need to worry about people feeling like the character they paid extra for isn’t that good anymore.

 

[KMDP]

Oh God do we really want 10 year olds playing this

Do we really want 10-year-olds playing GTA? Or Halo? Or... *goes on*

If 10-year-olds think it'll make them look more mature, they'll want to play it.

 

[Paper_Marzio]

Bayo already seems greatly nerfed in Ultimate. I feel like they can do a much better job at nerfing her with a new game than they ever could with a patch, because the game mechanics are different and they don’t need to worry about people feeling like the character they paid extra for isn’t that good anymore.

Yeah they had a dilemma with nerfing Bayo I presume. That's why they couldn't throw the Sakurai nerf bat because people would complain their paid character was nerfed too hard.

Honestly I'm incredibly relieved Bayo got nerfed this game, they're just such an un-fun character to fight honestly.

 

[Will]

Do we really want 10-year-olds playing GTA? Or Halo? Or... *goes on*

If 10-year-olds think it'll make them look more mature, they'll want to play it.

Bang bang shoot shoot games are expected of bad parenting. Sex appeal is another.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

That's the theme of this thread tbh

True

I know these games don't aim to the same audience, but I fear 's unpopularity in Smash will create a bad influence for Bayonetta 3 and the IP's future as a whole.

That’s where you shall be wrong, considering the Bayo games are pretty popular on the Wii U/Switch...Bayonetta games will never end (unless the creator himself decides to end it all)

Oh God do we really want 10 year olds playing this

All little boys and girls must witness the beauty that is known as Bayonetta...but through her own games and not Smash where she looks bad

Well, her inclusion in Smash make her games fly off the shelves, so low chance.

And before her inclusion in Smash, her 2nd game got a GOTY nomination at the Game Awards

We were just talking about how great having Bayonetta and Dark Pit in the same game.

Dark Pit finally getting real love from the Smash community...woah...we go from Pit in Smash Ultimate being able to kill Ganondorf extremely early with a side smash to Pittoo getting loved...

ALL ABORD THE ILLITERATE HERO HYPE TRAIN!!!!

 

[KMDP]

Bang bang shoot shoot games are expected of bad parenting. Sex appeal is another.

Never underestimate the lack of care of bad parents.

Also, the original God of War trilogy had sex in it, and I'm sure several 10-year-olds got their hands on it.

Because bad parents don't care to look at the warning labels. *shrug*

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Still frustrated from yesterday's finals, but today should be hopefully better all around.
After this though Smash 4 seems fated to become the SSF2 New Challengers of the series when December comes around, which just hurts.

What's that mean for those of us who don't speak Street Fighter II editions?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair Bayonetta is much more cheap than Mets knight was who actually took some tactical know how to play at a high level.

Bayonetta Witch time any monkey with a controller could spam over and over to win games and not a whole lot you can do about it with characters with a poor neutral or you're unfortunate enough to play a heavy like Dedede against Bayonetta.

"Bayonetta is much more worse than the character who was a major influence on the tier list" my left pinkie toe.

 

[MainJPW]

Never underestimate the lack of care of bad parents.

Also, the original God of War trilogy had sex in it, and I'm sure several 10-year-olds got their hands on it.

Because bad parents don't care to look at the warning labels. *shrug*

I think it depends on the kid; I played GTA: San Andreas a lot when it released back in 2004 and other M rated games and I turned out... just fine.

The key is to understand that video games are fictional and not to be taken seriously, that’s how I was when it came to video games, television and movies. They didn’t affect how I acted or anything, I just liked playing games regardless of the rating.

 

[PhantomShab]

Well, her inclusion in Smash make her games fly off the shelves, so low chance.
Haters gonna hate, nothing to do about that.

You say this and yet Bayonetta games have laughable sales.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You say this and yet Bayonetta games have laughable sales.

Did you check the post Smash sales? Because osby's referring to the fact Bayonetta became a more popular franchise after her announcement in Smash. Also the Switch versions sold well and so did the PC port of Bayo 1

 

[blackghost]

Bayo already seems greatly nerfed in Ultimate. I feel like they can do a much better job at nerfing her with a new game than they ever could with a patch, because the game mechanics are different and they don’t need to worry about people feeling like the character they paid extra for isn’t that good anymore.

but the new mechanics benefit her playstyle of aggression. she gets wavelanding, fs=aster movement, an improved roll, wavelanding, more hitstun, shorter recoveries, and PARRY (while she will be hard to parry). the more defensive characters havent been shown yet no rosa, not much villager, no duck hunt, no toon link, ect) the only heavy offense we havent seen is zss and wolf.

if you think smash will hurt bayonetta popularity long term you think certain smash community segments have more influence than they do. she's only growing. smash is the second game she's made an appearance in outside her games. bayonetta sold 400,000 on switch and 300,000 on wiiu prior to smash. theres less data on sales to now but the third game will give indication on whether she will stay longer. i think it will do good. the swtich is too popular and her game will be good going by the first 2.

i'd love to see mvci revived the fighting system is way too good to just let fade into nothing. capcom is killing it outside of marvel right now. my second fav announcement would be nintendo vs capcom. i want to have bayonetta fight dante in a versus game.

 

[Iridium]

Assuming nobody has seen this, it seems that the female and male Inklings have slightly different victory poses when they win a game. A small detail, but great reference to Splatoon overall.

 

[PhantomShab]

Did you check the post Smash sales? Because osby's referring to the fact Bayonetta became a more popular franchise after her announcement in Smash. Also the Switch versions sold well and so did the PC port of Bayo 1

From what I read Bayonetta 2 on the Switch only sold 400k units in it's first couple of weeks and I don't imagine it's sold much more since then. So yeah that's still really low.

 

[KMDP]

I think it depends on the kid, I played GTA: San Andreas a lot when it released back in 2004 and other M rated games and I turned out... just fine.

The key is to understand that video games are fictional and not to be taken seriously; that’s how I was when it came to video games, television and movies. They didn’t affect how I acted or anything, I just liked playing games regardless of the rating.

All true.

Also "video games are fictional and not to be taken seriously"... Wish more people thought like that; then we wouldn't get people making big deals out of nothing.
Sometimes it feels like: "Oh no, this game has a sexy girl in it! The world is ending!"

Assuming nobody has seen this, it seems that the female and male Inklings have slightly different victory poses when they win a game. A small detail, but great reference to Splatoon overall.

Well, it would be weird if Inkling Boy struck Inkling Girls' feminine pose. XD

 

[BlueMagician]

From what I read Bayonetta 2 on the Switch only sold 400k units in it's first couple of weeks and I don;t imagine it's sold much more since then. So yeah that's still really low.

I don't think you understand, 400k units for a port is absolutely a huge amount in modern times. Certainly not low.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

From what I read Bayonetta 2 on the Switch only sold 400k units in it's first couple of weeks and I don;t imagine it's sold much more since then. So yeah that's still really low.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...tta_2_has_outsold_its_sister_version_on_wii_u Bayonetta 2's lifetime sales, both versions, are 700k as of March 2018. That's not too bad for a niche title. The first game's sales are at least 170k for the PC which SEGA has said pleased them and the first game cleared over 1.35 sales in 2010, http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/20100514_hosoku_e_final.pdf#page=5
https://www.destructoid.com/bayonetta-pc-port-clears-170-000-sales-437840.phtml

Not too shabby for a niche franchise

 

[PhantomShab]

I don't think you understand, 400k units for a port is absolutely a huge amount in modern times. Certainly not low.

Imagine actually trying to tell someone that 400k sales are high.

 

[ThatRedPlumber]

but the new mechanics benefit her playstyle of aggression. she gets wavelanding, fs=aster movement, an improved roll, wavelanding, more hitstun, shorter recoveries, and PARRY (while she will be hard to parry). the more defensive characters havent been shown yet no rosa, not much villager, no duck hunt, no toon link, ect) the only heavy offense we havent seen is zss and wolf.

if you think smash will hurt bayonetta popularity long term you think certain smash community segments have more influence than they do. she's only growing. smash is the second game she's made an appearance in outside her games. bayonetta sold 400,000 on switch and 300,000 on wiiu prior to smash. theres less data on sales to now but the third game will give indication on whether she will stay longer. i think it will do good. the swtich is too popular and her game will be good going by the first 2.

i'd love to see mvci revived the fighting system is way too good to just let fade into nothing. capcom is killing it outside of marvel right now. my second fav announcement would be nintendo vs capcom. i want to have bayonetta fight dante in a versus game.

Didn’t they move the top blast line farther up and nerf some of her combo potential to compensate?

 

[WaxPython]

I played many violent games God of war being one of my fondest childhood memories along with Gra, true crime streets of LA, Melee, Mario sunshine, MGS, and resident evil 4.

I turned out just fine too, it really depends on the kid and their IQ fact is many kids do imitate what they see on TV or in games not much anyone can do about that

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Assuming nobody has seen this, it seems that the female and male Inklings have slightly different victory poses when they win a game. A small detail, but great reference to Splatoon overall.

That’s cool. Hopefully we’ll see some slight differences with other alts. I’m just hoping Alf could get something. Poor , gets to be a protagonist in Pikmin 3, doesn’t even get to be echo.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Assuming nobody has seen this, it seems that the female and male Inklings have slightly different victory poses when they win a game. A small detail, but great reference to Splatoon overall.

That’s cool!

I do kinda miss Trainer’s old defeat animation though. I wish more characters had ‘disappointment’ versus ‘celebration’

Really any time they cut something that is a game reference and replace it with something generic, it’s a bit annoying.

 

[blazefan519]

Aaaaand I'm awake. Good to see we're alive and well after the bomb from earlier today kek. What's happening, dudes?

Assuming nobody has seen this, it seems that the female and male Inklings have slightly different victory poses when they win a game. A small detail, but great reference to Splatoon overall.

Makes sense as their victory poses differed in Splatoon as well. And it wouldn't make that much sense for the Boy to do the more feminine poses kek

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Imagine actually trying to tell someone that 400k sales are high.

Just because Square Enix said they needed 5 MILLION sales to break even for a Tomb Raider game doesn't mean those standards apply to other games. There's multiple factors involved, like brand recognition and budget. Sega themselves said they're impressed with the sales of the PC version which is less the Switch version's sales of 2, meaning they made a profit. Just because most of the gaming industry wants everything to be million sellers doesn't mean less than a million is bad

 

[Deleted member]

it really depends on the kid and their IQ

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick and Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existencial catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools... how I pity them.

Aaaaand I'm awake. Good to see we're alive and well after the bomb from earlier today kek. What's happening, dudes?

Absolutely nothing important. Guilty Gear's been exciting, but we've been having some nice, non rumor related discussions for once.

 

[DraginHikari]

if you think smash will hurt bayonetta popularity long term you think certain smash community segments have more influence than they do. she's only growing. smash is the second game she's made an appearance in outside her games.

This is kind of the important thing to remember when talking about the influence of the Smash Community as a whole. We have quite the echo chamber here and put far more thought into Smash then most of the general public does. Hell, I only fall into the middle since I have little interest in the competitive scene but heavily look forward to the release anyway as a fan of the series. The competitive community for the most part is always going to be a subset of a subset of those who buy Smash as such its influence is not nearly as big as people here like to think it is.

 

[lordvaati]

What's that mean for those of us who don't speak Street Fighter II editions?

Skipped over due to being irrelevant compared to the most. New Challengers was the first game made on CPS2 and introduced Dee Jay, Cammy, Fei Long and ThunderHawk, but became irrelevant due to Super Turbo coming out and being an advancement in every way, by increasing the speed, adding Super attacks and hidden characters like the O-characters and Akuma. What's worse was they dropped the speed of the prior game Hyper Fighting, which was a huge selling point. This is part of the reason why HF along with ST were the games to get online play on the 30th Anniversary collection and NC was skipped.

WW had the whole appeal of being the first one, CE had Ditto matches and the 4 Kings, HF had speed and CPS1 combos, and ST had a lot of things. NC became obsolete.

Likewise, look at Smash-64 was the first one, Melee has the speed and a bottomless pit of unlockables, Brawl has the story Mode, and Ultimate is getting the whol3 cast. Smash 4 has all everything notable and unique to it moving to Ultimate: colorful cast, all in Ultimate. Mechanics? Re-tuned and coing back in Ultimate. Nearly every stage from both versions of Smash 4 are back in Ultimate and so on. What is left? The Wii-U version will just be known as the lowest selling entry in the series, with Smash Tour, one of the most disliked single Player modes by the public. 3DS might still have Smash Run(assuming it doesn't just get put in Ultimate) but even it's legacy as the portable Smash is gone due to the Switch granting Ultimate the same option on top of being easier to run due to very likely not requiring a SD card to run the game like Smash3D does...and having the Ice Climbers, characters that were only removed because of Smash3D.

It just hurts that this may be it's future, and to see it end on a whimper with that EVO finals breaks my heart so much since I enjoyed Smash 4 so much these years.

 

[Noipoi]

Assuming nobody has seen this, it seems that the female and male Inklings have slightly different victory poses when they win a game. A small detail, but great reference to Splatoon overall.

I don't think iv'e mention how excited I am for the Inklings. I love Splatoon, especially the character design and the world building.
They're moveset seems really unique as well. I'm gonna try to main them, unless Ashley gets in...

 

[ned_ballad]

Red and Leaf have different victory poses too, although I can't find any pictures of them

 

[DraginHikari]

Just because Square Enix said they needed 5 MILLION sales to break even for a Tomb Raider game doesn't mean those standards apply to other games. There's multiple factors involved, like brand recognition and budget. Sega themselves said they're impressed with the sales of the PC version which is less the Switch version's sales of 2, meaning they made a profit. Just because most of the gaming industry wants everything to be million sellers doesn't mean less than a million is bad

Usually the games that 'need' 5 million in sales usually are a result of wasteful spending, massive bloated marketing budgets, or poor gauged expectation from the publisher. SquareEnix for a long time was notorious for developing new game engines where there was probably no need for it.