Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

As someone who was around for Smash 4 speculation I'd argue this is some revisionism of its own. Palutena, and Pacman were at best somewhat expected due to some of the complications associated with each of them. I heard barely any discussion of Bowser Jr in Smash 4 speculation. Shulk was only really seen as likely post-Gematsu. And I never heard the name Corrin prior to their reveal. Corrin was for sure out of the left field.

Nah, Pacman was a shoo in once people heard Bamco was involved and people are always speculating the next FE Protagonist would be included in Smash, if not realistically believed.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

That could apply to anyone Square owns. Wouldn't it make more sense on a scale to use someone you're currently using or already make heaps of profit out of? Geno is 101% only going to be in (if he gets in) for fanservice. I don't know about you but I don't see SMRPG2 around the corner for the next forever.

I get what you're saying and it makes sense, but given the fact that Geno IS so highly requested, doesn't it make sense for them to just cave in and give him anyway? Plus, Square already has their biggest character in the game, and if they get anymore that aren't Geno I really don't see the negatives in giving him anyway.


Although yes I am completely biased as I am a MAJOR Geno supporter

 

[dezeray112]

Erica Lindbeck confirmed she wasn't called for Celica in Smash (Pre-E3,but worth noting).

Here is the tweet from Erica Lindbeck herself on twitter in case everyone is wondering:

https://twitter.com/ericalindbeck/status/1004108241977073665?lang=en

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nah, Pacman was a shoo in once people heard Bamco was involved and people are always speculating the next FE Protagonist would be included in Smash, if not realistically believed.

Pac-Man was beyond obvious. Like, it was easy to see coming once Bamco was noted as part of it. It was just a matter of how he worked. The thing that people didn't know is that he was asked for by Miyamoto during Brawl, which means that he was on the radar well before 4. The difference is there was finally a way to make him interesting, the main reason he wasn't in Brawl.

The only way he wouldn't have been a guarantee is entirely on Bamco saying no to what Sakurai wanted(his original design). And why would they say no when it's more recognized than his secondary design(which later got used for Ghostly Adventures, hence why people refer to it as that particular design, despite being inaccurate to a degree).

 

[perfectchaos83]

Square-Enix already has Super Mario RPG available via things like VC. They clearly were fine with Geno in Smash alone via the Mii costume. They agreed that Sakurai could use the character. There's nothing to lose by letting him in as playable as is. Cloud's already there, so the biggest "obstacle" is gone. There's no obvious reason for them to say no. Sakurai has made it clear who he's interested in, and the only SE character is clearly Geno(that we know of), and that alone can be enough.

Mii costumes are inconsequential. Playable Characters are much bigger deals. SE May not care about Geno being a Mii Costume, but they very well could be against him being playable. Just because Sakurai wants the character and has the rights to use him for a Mii Costume does not mean he can make Geno Playable.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Alright I've been away for a bit, what's new? Verge said Isabelle?

Yes he did

And yesterday he mention we will get a gen 7 Pokémon for playable and he told us

It's not decidueye, lycanroc and mimikyu it's none of them

Note inciniroar is not a lock since other popular gen 7 are possible

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This means DaybreakHorizon needs to grab ALL leaks that are still alive from 4chan. Including today. Because a guy said so and we don't know if they're legit

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As someone who was around for Smash 4 speculation I'd argue this is some revisionism of its own. Palutena, and Pacman were at best somewhat expected due to some of the complications associated with each of them.

I don't remember anyone saying Palutena had issues. Like at all. She was the successor to Mega Man in the Smash 4 Elite Four for a reason.

Pac-Man was pretty darn expected as soon as Namco was revealed to work on the game.

I heard barely any discussion of Bowser Jr in Smash 4 speculation.

Where were you? He was seen as the most likely candidate for years. Rosalina pretty much shushed up all the talk of Mario newcomers for a while but Jr. was the one people rallied behind.

Shulk was only really seen as likely post-Gematsu.

I was there pre-Gematsu. Shulk was discussed pretty heavily and was seen as a less likely Isaac. Oh how that turned out.

And I never heard the name Corrin prior to their reveal. Corrin was for sure out of the left field.

This is a personal anecdote. Regardless, hey BluePikmin11 Did you ever hear people talk about Corrin for Smash. There was one guy who would bring it up from time to time but I can't remember.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

As someone who was around for Smash 4 speculation I'd argue this is some revisionism of its own. Palutena, and Pacman were at best somewhat expected due to some of the complications associated with each of them. I heard barely any discussion of Bowser Jr in Smash 4 speculation. Shulk was only really seen as likely post-Gematsu. And I never heard the name Corrin prior to their reveal. Corrin was for sure out of the left field.

Palutena was along with Little Mac the most expected newcomer, only argument against her was the ever flimsy "Sakurai is careful with his own bias" that ended up getting completely obliterated with Smash 4. Shulk's placement is also fine.

I do agree Pac-Man, pre-Gematsu at least, and Bowser Jr should be bumped down a tier though, although in the former's case a lot of it had to do with people actively not wanting him in. I'd also put Olimar up one tier, although I suppose it differed depending on which forum you were on.

 

[Opossum]

As someone who was around for Smash 4 speculation I'd argue this is some revisionism of its own. Palutena, and Pacman were at best somewhat expected due to some of the complications associated with each of them. I heard barely any discussion of Bowser Jr in Smash 4 speculation. Shulk was only really seen as likely post-Gematsu. And I never heard the name Corrin prior to their reveal. Corrin was for sure out of the left field.

Palutena was literally everywhere after Uprising during speculation. She was definitely expected. Pac-Man was usually in the "expected, but not wanted" boat with the Miis due to fear of Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man getting in.

Admittedly, this may have been just Smashboards. I didn't follow other sites at the time so perhaps they viewed those two differently.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

This means DaybreakHorizon needs to grab ALL leaks that are still alive from 4chan. Including today. Because a guy said so and we don't know if they're legit

Where’s he been, anyway?

think he’s at EVO or something? Lucky dude

 

[Pyra]

Where’s he been, anyway?

think he’s at EVO or something? Lucky dude

He's taking a leak.

 

[Idon]

Where’s he been, anyway?

think he’s at EVO or something? Lucky dude

He's binging persona 5 and getting ready for school at the moment.

 

[SvartWolf]

Nah, Pacman was a shoo in once people heard Bamco was involved and people are always speculating the next FE Protagonist would be included in Smash, if not realistically believed.

heck, we already have people pushing for edelgard... edealgard... egdelard remembering characters from games that still don't exist is hard.

Also, yeah i don't see SE wanting or pushing Geno much... but i think that Geno is a character that sakurai would push for if he thinks the roster needs him. so teh fatc that he isn't marketeable doesn't completely annihilate its chances imo.

 

[Starbound]

Re: Erica Lindbeck

Have/Do VAs ever acknowledged fan edits on IMDB for voice acting? Since IMDB is editable by literally my dog, I feel like VAs wouldn't bother too much with it as they'd be spending too much time responding to, what is essentially, Wikipedia edits.

If anything, her response denying it may be covering herself from Nintendos lawyers if she is actually involved in the game. She wants them to know she didn't edit the IMDB page to pass off a casual leak that no one would pay any attention to.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I don't know if I agree with this. The costumes, Smash Run, and to a lesser extent Ashley are all fairly realistic. Where I start to disagree about this leak's realism is the section on Story mode. I just can't see Sakurai going back to the Subspace Emissary after the amount of gaff he's publicly given it in the past. Plus, the Great Maze was very maligned by the fanbase for feeling too long and too much like filler. If Sakurai really was going back to Subspace for ideas, why would he go to what was generally the least liked level of the entire mode?

Something as just the Great Maze would be quite a bit less development work than a full-blown SSE-like story mode is. And the Great Maze was mainly disliked because it was a massive retread of everything people already played through for the past 5-10 hours, when people were expecting a big climatic level of new content to finish things off, and thus left the feeling it was massive padding to drag out the mode for another few hours.

The Great Maze on its own would probably be received a lot more favorably, I have seen people say they enjoyed the Metroidvania aspect of it, just not on top of a story mode you're expecting to be at the end of and consisting all of stuff you already played through.

That said, I don't particularly see why this 4chan leak is so much more "realistic" than the other ones that merits it being given more attention.

 

[BluePikmin11]

This is a personal anecdote. Regardless, hey BluePikmin11 Did you ever hear people talk about Corrin for Smash. There was one guy who would bring it up from time to time but I can't remember.

I used to predict Corrin in the DLC days before I abandoned him in the final Smash direct, like with Bayonetta. I believe he was somewhat discussed when I had the support thread for him in the DLC times, but he was not really expected.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Re: Erica Lindbeck

Have/Do VAs ever acknowledged fan edits on IMDB for voice acting? Since IMDB is editable by literally my dog, I feel like VAs wouldn't bother too much with it as they'd be spending too much time responding to, what is essentially, Wikipedia edits.

If anything, her response denying it may be covering herself from Nintendos lawyers if she is actually involved in the game. She wants them to know she didn't edit the IMDB page to pass off a casual leak that no one would pay any attention to.

Christina Vee did when Shantae was added to IMDB for Smash Wii U.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It seems we all have some different opinions. Mine are the only right ones though.

That said a lot of people seem to think my list was fairly accurate, so that's nice.

 

[N3ON]

Okay...

There's a fair amount of revisionism going on from people who weren't around during their respective games speculation.

I'll just make a list on how expected each newcomer was for each period. I'll offer explanations for each ranking if asked.

Note: I won't talk about how leaks affected people's predictions. That's cheating. This is pre leak and relative to their reveals.

Spoiler: Brawl

Brawl

Expected:
Somewhat expected:
Talked about but not really expected:
Completely out of the left field:

And yes, Pokemon Trainer means all three Pokemon were out of the left field too. People thought Charizard would stay as a Pokeball Pokemon. It seemed like the perfect role for him. Gotta remember, people thought Charizard was huge back then. It's why we got lots of "Charizard's true size" picture after Brawl.

Spoiler: Smash 4

Smash 4:

Expected:
Somewhat expected:
Talked about but not really expected: ultlucina:
Completely out of the left field:

The only serious discussion Greninja had was about including it into a Kalos Trainer. Greninja as a standalone character was almost always tossed aside.

Villager had to deal with the Brawl comments from Sakurai so most people disregarded him. They made an exception for Miis due to receiving more combat oriented roles and just being that major. Villager's confirmation made Mii doubters reconsider as well.

Rosalina was generally seen as sometime low on the totem pole due to her recent creation. Other Mario characters would get in first.

Spoiler: Ultimate (So Far)

Ultimate (So Far)

Expected:
Somewhat expected:
Talked about but not really expected:
Completely out of the left field:

I concur with all of this. Seems very accurate to what I remember.

Except Ryu, who, to my memory, only ever received scant attention and virtually no expectation prior to his reveal. His thread had what, one, maybe two pages in the three years it existed prior to his reveal? Also if you were to place Ike in the 'somewhat expected' category, I wouldn't argue. People expected a new FE character, they were just split on who it'd be. iirc Ike and Lyn were the frontrunners.

Also, not that the placement is incorrect but worth noting nonetheless is that Pac-Man had almost zero attention surrounding him prior to the announcement of Namco's involvement. Another interesting and generally forgotten tidbit is ROB was actually tossed around as the token WTF character, but once people saw his role as a generic enemy in subspace, the expectation curtailed. Plus a few thought the surprise of him as a WTF would be mitigated by his recent-ish role in MKDS, which re-familiarized himself to people.

 

[Pyra]

I think:

Geno seems likely if you look at it from the perspective of Sakurai being able to pick and choose who he wants to pull from the third parties and them being okay with it.

However, if you turn it around- it's probably more likely that Square has more of a say in it than Sakurai. "No, no, we would much rather you use [other character]. Please do so". Then sakurai can say yes or no, and probably not be able to insist on what he "wants" over what he can "get away with".

That being said,

It seems we all have some different opinions. Mine are the only right ones though.

My opinions can't possibly be right, because Swamp exists.

 

[Cosmic77]

I went back and read through the past few pages.

I've gotta say, this new pessimistic feeling lingering in the thread is depressing. I understand that you might feel a little heartbroken because one of the Pokemon you supported got shot down by a leaker, but geez, perk up a little. Not only do we not know if the rumor is true, but we have literally no idea who the new Pokemon is. We might be surprised and like what we end up getting. You think people were originally open to Lucario getting Brawl? Heck, I remember a few people on this very site who were in denial and tried to argue that the leaked Lucario icon was actually Ridley. Now I see people argue that he's someone who should stay in Smash permanently.

Point is, loosen up a little and look at the positives. All hope is not lost for these three Pokemon, and even if they don't end up in Smash, I'm just glad that these rumors mention us getting a new Pokemon character. Some of us didn't even think we'd get one.

 

[Deleted member]

He's taking a leak.

Thread's closed, roll credits! This one wins.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Re: Erica Lindbeck

Have/Do VAs ever acknowledged fan edits on IMDB for voice acting? Since IMDB is editable by literally my dog, I feel like VAs wouldn't bother too much with it as they'd be spending too much time responding to, what is essentially, Wikipedia edits.

If anything, her response denying it may be covering herself from Nintendos lawyers if she is actually involved in the game. She wants them to know she didn't edit the IMDB page to pass off a casual leak that no one would pay any attention to.

I remember back in Smash 4 there was this one guy who claimed Ridley was voiced by Patrick Seitz and he said that would be awesome but not true

 

[T-Hell]

So if that Verg leak about a Gen 7 poke not being Decidueye, Lycanrock or Mimikyu is true, then who the hell is it? Bewear and Alolan Raichu are out. Maybe Incineroar? Rockruff? Alolan Ninetales? Beats me, man. I can't think of too many popular Alolan pkmn to be honest.. "Popular" isn't exactly the first word I think of when thinking of Gen 7.

 

[Opossum]

I concur with all of this. Seems very accurate to what I remember.

Except Ryu, who, to my memory, only ever received scant attention and virtually no expectation prior to his reveal. His thread had what, one, maybe two pages in the three years it existed prior to his reveal? Also if you were to place Ike in the 'somewhat expected' category, I wouldn't argue. People expected a new FE character, they were just split on who it'd be. iirc Ike and Lyn were the frontrunners.

Also, not that the placement is incorrect but worth noting nonetheless is that Pac-Man had almost zero attention surrounding him prior to the announcement of Namco's involvement. Another interesting and generally forgotten tidbit is ROB was actually tossed around as the token WTF character, but once people saw his role as a generic enemy in subspace, the expectation curtailed. Plus a few thought the surprise of him as a WTF would be mitigated by his recent-ish role in MKDS, which re-familiarized himself to people.

Yeah, Ike and Lyn were basically the frontrunners, though I remember seeing a few people wanting Eirika and Ephraim as a tag team. Much less than Ike and Lyn though.

 

[BlueMagician]

Geno in Smash? I think Square would do it if they got the request from Nintendo.

(I can’t imagine Japan liked Skyrim that much)

Well it sold at least 350 thousand units on consoles and probably a good amount on the PC where the mods are famous (in many ways) , oh and also it recieved an Award for Excellence in 2012 from the Japan Game Awards

 

[Deleted member]

I remember back in Smash 4 there was this one guy who claimed Ridley was voiced by Patrick Seitz and he said that would be awesome but not true

During the Smash 4 era, we had this lovely edit, among others:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I remember Lyn being the leader with Ike close behind. Similar to what happened with Krystal and Wolf.

I would have put Lyn and Krystal in the "Somewhat expected" tier just because more people thought they would happen while Ike and Wolf were generally seen as second most likely.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mii costumes are inconsequential. Playable Characters are much bigger deals. SE May not care about Geno being a Mii Costume, but they very well could be against him being playable. Just because Sakurai wants the character and has the rights to use him for a Mii Costume does not mean he can make Geno Playable.

They're not inconsequential at all. Sakurai went for a Mii costume so Geno could still be playable. That's all he can do when he already is making multiple playable characters. Geno was lower priority than Cloud, obviously. That doesn't make him lower priority than others.

Square doesn't really say no that easily. Unless it's an unknown, like the creators of Playstation All-Stars. That's why they couldn't get Cloud in. Not because "lol we only want the latest". They aren't going to trust their big gun to a new content creator, but a veteran like Sakurai. They were already surprised he went for Cloud, so they already know it's not worth pushing their "special" choices either. It's a waste of time. Super Mario RPG already still sees some small bits of promotion by Nintendo, meaning adding Geno does not hurt Square in any way regardless. It only helps them get more sales, due to their game still selling.

Besides, Sakurai goes to companies for the choices anyway.

 

[N3ON]

As someone who was around for Smash 4 speculation I'd argue this is some revisionism of its own. Palutena, and Pacman were at best somewhat expected due to some of the complications associated with each of them. I heard barely any discussion of Bowser Jr in Smash 4 speculation. Shulk was only really seen as likely post-Gematsu. And I never heard the name Corrin prior to their reveal. Corrin was for sure out of the left field.

I agree with Swamp on Palutena and Pac-Man. Very few characters are totally expected, such as the Inklings this time around. But widely expected? Both of those fit that bill if memory serves.

Bowser Jr was more expected prior to Rosalina. Once she showed up, expectation for other Mario characters lowered. But it did definitely exist during parts of the Smash 4 era.

Shulk was seen as widely expected once Gematsu hit, as was Chrom and Chorus Men and all those guys, but beforehand he still was fairly prevalent. Again I agree with Swamp. I remember all those dumb Isaac vs Shulk arguments.

I'll abstain from Corrin discussion though. What I remember was post-Roy, entertaining more FE characters came to a pretty screeching halt.

 

[Pyra]

A lot of these arbitrary rules people keep using for qualifications are like... the basket items in Chopped (that cooking competition where people get key ingredients (the basket items) that they must use in dishes).

Forgetting one of them is not an instant disqualification, and neither is breaking those rules people are always imposing. Unpopular character? No problem. Unpopular in Japan?


All I'm saying is using those rules to speak in absolutes closes off what might otherwise be interesting conversation.

Also, I'm hungry.

 

[AustarusIV]

Blue, you may be jumping the gun a bit...

I’ll admit that I never saw Lycanroc as incredibly likely, but I’m going to wait until we get a release before throwing in the towel. While Vergeben probably does have something, I tend to hold off on confirmations or disconfirmations until there is an official source. We don’t know if someone is feeding Vergy bad info either, so it may not even be him deliberately misleading anyone.

I’m approaching this round of speculation differently. Last time was “I want these obvious additions!” And I got nothing but disappointment. Now, I got all of my veterans I wanted and my space dragon’s finally in. I’m realistically only supporting a few characters, one of whom is stupidly popular worldwide, the other who has realistically zero chance (I can’t imagine Japan liked Skyrim that much). I’ll take things much more casually this time.

Skyrim was the first-ever Western game to get a 40 from Famitsu. It’s actually pretty popular over there, probably the most out of any Bethesda game from what I’ve heard.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Apologies for not posting the context but here it is:
View attachment 155657
It’s unknown which one he’s referring to as he keeps it extremely ambiguous, but there is one that has been brought up a lot that wouldn’t surprise me...
View attachment 155659

This does line up with what loz18 said about a direct in August featuring a returning mode and a new mode. I've also suspected that Ashley will be the new character revealed in an August direct.

Though it could also just be piggybacking off of loz18.

 

[SvartWolf]

who is loz18? isnt the guy that leaked the smash bros props like.... waaaaaaay back?

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

Whata.....?! Sam Riegel... in Sm4sh?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I will say that one character I had been wanting for Smash 4 was Little Mac. Needless to say, that paid off.

I think:

Geno seems likely if you look at it from the perspective of Sakurai being able to pick and choose who he wants to pull from the third parties and them being okay with it.

However, if you turn it around- it's probably more likely that Square has more of a say in it than Sakurai. "No, no, we would much rather you use [other character]. Please do so". Then sakurai can say yes or no, and probably not be able to insist on what he "wants" over what he can "get away with".

That being said,

My opinions can't possibly be right, because Swamp exists.

This reminds me of anime licensing. There are many cases when an R1 company wants X show from the Japanese licensor, but is required to also get Y show as part of a package deal, regardless of how desirable Y is.

 

[Baskerville]

Toad and Jr I remember being the most talked about Mario characters before Rosalina was playable. People didn't really start talking about her until she was in 3D World.

I was there pre-Gematsu. Shulk was discussed pretty heavily and was seen as a less likely Isaac. Oh how that turned out.

I still remember the dumb Shulk vs Isaac arguments and how some people tried to compare them to each other.
All that did was show that they never looked at either of their games.

 

[Opossum]

Whata.....?! Sam Riegel... in Sm4sh?

It's a good example of why you should never trust IMDB as a source.

 

[Enchess]

I concur with all of this. Seems very accurate to what I remember.

Except Ryu, who, to my memory, only ever received scant attention and virtually no expectation prior to his reveal. His thread had what, one, maybe two pages in the three years it existed prior to his reveal? Also if you were to place Ike in the 'somewhat expected' category, I wouldn't argue. People expected a new FE character, they were just split on who it'd be. iirc Ike and Lyn were the frontrunners.

Also, not that the placement is incorrect but worth noting nonetheless is that Pac-Man had almost zero attention surrounding him prior to the announcement of Namco's involvement. Another interesting and generally forgotten tidbit is ROB was actually tossed around as the token WTF character, but once people saw his role as a generic enemy in subspace, the expectation curtailed. Plus a few thought the surprise of him as a WTF would be mitigated by his recent-ish role in MKDS, which re-familiarized himself to people.

I saw quite a lot of people expecting Ryu. I also feel Villager was in the somewhat expected category, but I wad mostly on other forums before his announcement

Edit: for context I remember because I argued against people predicting Ryu frequently and argued for an AC rep frequently