Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[kylexv]

Apologies for not posting the context but here it is:
View attachment 155657
It’s unknown which one he’s referring to as he keeps it extremely ambiguous, but there is one that has been brought up a lot that wouldn’t surprise me...
View attachment 155659

Well that one looks too good to be true. As much as I want to believe, as with all leaks, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Opossum]

Apologies for not posting the context but here it is:
View attachment 155657
It’s unknown which one he’s referring to as he keeps it extremely ambiguous, but there is one that has been brought up a lot that wouldn’t surprise me...
View attachment 155659

Why that leak specifically? There are literally tons of non-debunked 4chan leaks.

 

[perfectchaos83]

inb4 they're talking about the one that called Daisy and the Bomberman AT

I doubt it. The DM was from Aug 2nd.

Why that leak specifically? There are literally tons of non-debunked 4chan leaks.

That leak gained traction on twitter at the same time as the DM did

 

[SvartWolf]

the costumes bit seems fishy... specially since i think that little mac had it's 16 costumes on the demo (need confirmation though)

Which would be sad, cause 16 costumes per character is cool, ashley would be cool, smash run HD would be cool and a Metroidvania mode where you exploer and unlock characters would be AMAZING. : c

Feels like wishlisting...

 

[NintenZ]

Well that one looks too good to be true. As much as I want to believe, as with all leaks, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Actually I’d say it’s pretty grounded in reality, everything sounds plausible and nothing is too outlandish, not even the alts sound outlandish since we know from the demos that some costumes like Meta Ridley were missing. Time will tell and I’m not jumping the gun yet but if it were real I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

[Deleted member]

the costumes bit seems fishy... specially since i think that little mac had it's 16 costumes on the demo (need confirmation though)

Mac only had 8 costumes in the demo.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

To give context, this was posted in the Ashley thread:

Spoiler

For Background info, lupensko typically backs up vergeben's info on GFAQs. He's not direct about it, but his posts definitely give off the air that he knows what he's talking about.

Had forgotten all about lupensko, when Vergeben posted his Ridley and Simon leak there were people over at Resetera who said they had seen him leak them on Twitter before Verg did, but once they went back to check on him his entire Twitter was emptied.

I think it was ned_ballad who had witnessed it.

 

[kylexv]

the costumes bit seems fishy... specially since i think that little mac had it's 16 costumes on the demo (need confirmation though)

Which would be sad, cause 16 costumes per character is cool, ashley would be cool, smash run HD would be cool and a Metroidvania mode where you exploer and unlock characters would be AMAZING. : c

Feels like wishlisting...

Little Mac had only 8 costumes in the Demo.

 

[Opossum]

I doubt it. The DM was from Aug 2nd.



That leak gained traction on twitter at the same time as the DM did

The DM being from the 2nd doesn't stop previous ones from existing. Notice how they didn't answer whether or not it was archived.

 

[perfectchaos83]

the costumes bit seems fishy... specially since i think that little mac had it's 16 costumes on the demo (need confirmation though)

Which would be sad, cause 16 costumes per character is cool, ashley would be cool, smash run HD would be cool and a Metroidvania mode where you exploer and unlock characters would be AMAZING. : c

Feels like wishlisting...

Little Mac only had 8. Same as everyone else in the Demo.

The DM being from the 2nd doesn't stop previous ones from existing. Notice how they didn't answer whether or not it was archived.

I'm aware. It was discussed in the Ashley thread. So I know the reasoning they had for thinking that was the leak being talked about. Either way, I'd imagine that mentioning a 4chan leak is out in the wild signifies that it's at least a leak that gained some sort of traction for one reason or another. Which most really don't

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I mean... I've replied to one comment he made on reddit but in terms of trying to PM him... I can't say that I have, though once I think of what to ask him, I think I'll give PM-ing him a shot on Reddit

Shoot your shot

 

[NintenZ]

Why that leak specifically? There are literally tons of non-debunked 4chan leaks.

The reason why is because of how grounded in reality it seems, nothing seems outlandish at all and several things actually make a lot of sense from it (Updated and improved Smash Run, streamlined and simpler story mode, more costumes outstanding which actually would make sense since we know some are missing, bigger focus on the Original 8 which Sakurai did state was a thing in an interview), none of it seems unrealistic plus I must note it did start gaining notable traction on Twitter shortly before the DM was posted. It could all be a coincidence to be honest but time will tell what’s in store.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Apologies for not posting the context but here it is:
View attachment 155657
It’s unknown which one he’s referring to as he keeps it extremely ambiguous, but there is one that has been brought up a lot that wouldn’t surprise me...
View attachment 155659

I don’t trust that costume idea...unless Pit gets 8 costumes based on the Three Sacred Treasures, Mario has his Fire suit, and Peach/Daisy/Rosalina have special alts in general

 

[SvartWolf]

Little Mac had only 8 costumes in the Demo.

Little Mac only had 8. Same as everyone else in the Demo.

Nice, sometimes feels good to be wrong.

While not being sold on the leak, I would love it to be true... like.. i cant stress how great i think a metroidvania mode in smash would be.

 

[Opossum]

The reason why is because of how grounded in reality it seems, nothing seems outlandish at all and several things actually make a lot of sense from it (Updated and improved Smash Run, streamlined and simpler story mode, more costumes outstanding which actually would make sense since we know some are missing, bigger focus on the Original 8 which Sakurai did state was a thing in an interview), none of it seems unrealistic plus I must note it did start gaining notable traction on Twitter shortly before the DM was posted. It could all be a coincidence to be honest but time will tell what’s in store.

Would you say the same if Ashley wasn't on it?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I plan on making an analysis on what went wrong with my prediction with Lycanroc and possible PKMN choices sometime next week. I have to admit, I am sad that Ultimate might not get a fighter that would be a spiritual successor to Zoroark in terms of moveset potential and characterization, but this current moment of speculation is motivating me to write in-depth again.

Blue, you may be jumping the gun a bit...

I’ll admit that I never saw Lycanroc as incredibly likely, but I’m going to wait until we get a release before throwing in the towel. While Vergeben probably does have something, I tend to hold off on confirmations or disconfirmations until there is an official source. We don’t know if someone is feeding Vergy bad info either, so it may not even be him deliberately misleading anyone.

I’m approaching this round of speculation differently. Last time was “I want these obvious additions!” And I got nothing but disappointment. Now, I got all of my veterans I wanted and my space dragon’s finally in. I’m realistically only supporting a few characters, one of whom is stupidly popular worldwide, the other who has realistically zero chance (I can’t imagine Japan liked Skyrim that much). I’ll take things much more casually this time.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t trust that costume idea...unless Pit gets 8 costumes based on the Three Sacred Treasures, Mario has his Fire suit, and Peach/Daisy/Rosalina have special alts in general

Everyone's talking about Fire Mario, and I'm still waiting for the return of Luigi's weird N64/Melee alt.

 

[NintenZ]

Would you say the same if Ashley wasn't on it?

It really has nothing to do with bias, there’s just a lot of things in this that make sense is all. Pretty simple as that.

I already explained my case.

 

[DarkSt0rm009]

the costumes bit seems fishy... specially since i think that little mac had it's 16 costumes on the demo (need confirmation though)

Which would be sad, cause 16 costumes per character is cool, ashley would be cool, smash run HD would be cool and a Metroidvania mode where you exploer and unlock characters would be AMAZING. : c

Feels like wishlisting...

Little Mac actually had 10 costumes on the demo if memory serves, his default 8 and then the wireframe with green gloves, and the wireframe in the hoodie

 

[Opossum]

It really has nothing to do with bias, there’s just a lot of things in this that make sense is all.

I already explained my case.

I'm just saying, even if there was a real 4chan leak out there, what makes this one in particular likely at all? What makes it any different from, say, this one, which was posted a few days before Vergeben leaked Isabelle?

 

[RouffWestie]

Wait a minute.
Go back and watch the reveal video again.
Sakurai specifically states that Villager has 8 alts, split between the male and female versions.
Either the leak aint true, or someone else will be in for the rest of the 16 costumes.

Edit: Here, just jump to 10:30 https://youtu.be/L93H7YC-83o

 

[perfectchaos83]

I'm just saying, even if there was a real 4chan leak out there, what makes this one in particular likely at all? What makes it any different from, say, this one, which was posted a few days before Vergeben leaked Isabelle?
View attachment 155662

Erica Lindbeck confirmed she wasn't called for Celica in Smash (Pre-E3,but worth noting). Also, Geno (In my opinion) sets off red flags. I see no scenario where Square would want Geno to be their 2nd rep.

 

[Will]

Everyone's talking about Fire Mario, and I'm still waiting for the return of Luigi's weird N64/Melee alt.

View attachment 155661

"hey what do we do with fire luigi"
"**** it make him the italian simpson skin"

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Erica Lindbeck confirmed she wasn't called for Celica in Smash (Pre-E3,but worth noting). Also, Geno (In my opinion) sets off red flags. I see no scenario where Square would want Geno to be their 2nd rep.

Really? I think Square would be happy to have a character they've done literally nothing with be brought back for like the biggest crossover ever, but that's just me

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: jill valentine

Spoiler: Jill evil

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay...

There's a fair amount of revisionism going on from people who weren't around during their respective games speculation.

I'll just make a list on how expected each newcomer was for each period. I'll offer explanations for each ranking if asked.

Note: I won't talk about how leaks affected people's predictions. That's cheating. This is pre leak and relative to their reveals.

Spoiler: Brawl

Brawl

Expected:
Somewhat expected:
Talked about but not really expected:
Completely out of the left field:

And yes, Pokemon Trainer means all three Pokemon were out of the left field too. People thought Charizard would stay as a Pokeball Pokemon. It seemed like the perfect role for him. Gotta remember, people thought Charizard was huge back then. It's why we got lots of "Charizard's true size" picture after Brawl.

Spoiler: Smash 4

Smash 4:

Expected:
Somewhat expected:
Talked about but not really expected: ultlucina:
Completely out of the left field:

The only serious discussion Greninja had was about including it into a Kalos Trainer. Greninja as a standalone character was almost always tossed aside.

Villager had to deal with the Brawl comments from Sakurai so most people disregarded him. They made an exception for Miis due to receiving more combat oriented roles and just being that major. Villager's confirmation made Mii doubters reconsider as well.

Rosalina was generally seen as sometime low on the totem pole due to her recent creation. Other Mario characters would get in first.

Spoiler: Ultimate (So Far)

Ultimate (So Far)

Expected:
Somewhat expected:
Talked about but not really expected:
Completely out of the left field:

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Wait the Ashley 66 thing I see fake

The 16 alts part is fake

Go to 10:31 in the smash bros ultimate reveal video

Listen to what he said about villager

"There are eight villagers to choose from"

 

[Garteam]

The reason why is because of how grounded in reality it seems, nothing seems outlandish at all and several things actually make a lot of sense from it (Updated and improved Smash Run, streamlined and simpler story mode, more costumes outstanding which actually would make sense since we know some are missing, bigger focus on the Original 8 which Sakurai did state was a thing in an interview), none of it seems unrealistic plus I must note it did start gaining notable traction on Twitter shortly before the DM was posted. It could all be a coincidence to be honest but time will tell what’s in store.

I don't know if I agree with this. The costumes, Smash Run, and to a lesser extent Ashley are all fairly realistic. Where I start to disagree about this leak's realism is the section on Story mode. I just can't see Sakurai going back to the Subspace Emissary after the amount of gaff he's publicly given it in the past. Plus, the Great Maze was very maligned by the fanbase for feeling too long and too much like filler. If Sakurai really was going back to Subspace for ideas, why would he go to what was generally the least liked level of the entire mode?

 

[Opossum]

Erica Lindbeck confirmed she wasn't called for Celica in Smash (Pre-E3,but worth noting). Also, Geno (In my opinion) sets off red flags. I see no scenario where Square would want Geno to be their 2nd rep.

NDAs exist for a reason, or the voice work wasn't recorded yet. Meanwhile Sakurai said the Villager had eight alts and not sixteen. You can't really pick and choose there. Personally an Adventure Mode sets off a lot more red flags to me.

My point, however, is that this one hasn't been debunked. A ton of leaks haven't been debunked. The Ashley one isn't special in that regard.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Really? I think Square would be happy to have a character they've done literally nothing with be brought back for like the biggest crossover ever, but that's just me

SE is a business. They own Geno, sure. But they can't do much with him on their own. He's a bad choice in that vein as Geno himself does nothing for the company unlike a character like Lightning, Crono, Lara Croft, Erdrick/Roto etc. They've got a vast array of marketable and current characters and I don't see SE being down with Geno being used over something that's actually beneficial.

 

[Will]

Really? I think Square would be happy to have a character they've done literally nothing with be brought back for like the biggest crossover ever, but that's just me

That could apply to anyone Square owns. Wouldn't it make more sense on a scale to use someone you're currently using or already make heaps of profit out of? Geno is 101% only going to be in (if he gets in) for fanservice. I don't know about you but I don't see SMRPG2 around the corner for the next forever.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Verg is an "attention seeker", that much is very much true, regardless of if his information is true, false, made up by him or made up by his source.
Saying anyone in his position would do the same thing he is doing is just flat out wrong.

Ninka regretted being a part of that leak. I don't regret standing up for him but I hated being pulled into the limelight because of it. The actual ESRB leaker hasn't publicly revealed himself and likely never will. And during that big ESRB leak, there was a network of a dozen different people who all had these videos for weeks before they finally leaked, because most people don't just run to the internet the first chance they get to win popularity points. Even now we've got more people claiming they've heard many of the things Verg has, but none of them are sharing, because none of them want the attention.

And honestly, this isn't a case where we have a nice guy walking up, sharing info and then being insulted. Sal Ramano was a decent guy who didn't deserve the hate he got. Verg is the kind of guy who openly insults the Smash community behind their backs, just look at his most recent MvC leak to see that in full action. That's "slimy."

And I keep repeating myself on this point, but in the past he has actively altered his leak posts to include information that was leaked by other sources, to make it seem like he was the original source and give his leak more validity. He is factually a liar, even if literally everything he's said about Smash is the truth.

Fair enough. I personally, even knowing this, don’t feel it’s right for anybody to spew venom at anybody else this crap because it’s just silly. Whether it’s correct info or not will only be told by time, but I don’t feel it’s necessary to really hate in anybody.

Although it also seems to me that when it comes to these leaks, people seem to just take a side in an act of tribalism in that they have to be right about the outcome. Not to mention it really comes down to “do they like the content” of the leak.

I’m pretty confident in Simon, but I am not sure what to make of other leaks because none of us really know the “sources” he has. We don’t know if they’re the same as E3, or all entirely new.

To be fair, while I absolutely agree Sal Romano is pretty great considering everything, I can understand why somebody would be upset at a community if a pretty good amount of people immediately assumed he was a fraud. Although, those presumptions are based on a reputation he created for himself, most likely. It’s a vicious cycle!

Anyway, i’m just excited for the potential discussion this can bring to the table as far as new Pokémon ideas.

 

[NintenZ]

Erica Lindbeck confirmed she wasn't called for Celica in Smash (Pre-E3,but worth noting). Also, Geno (In my opinion) sets off red flags. I see no scenario where Square would want Geno to be their 2nd rep.

The first part is a good point, the second one not so much, I’d argue that Square would actually be fine with them using him since he had a Mii Costume in 4 and he’s been a fairly popular request so they’d benefit from adding him.

I don't know if I agree with this. The costumes, Smash Run, and to a lesser extent Ashley are all fairly realistic. Where I start to disagree about this leak's realism is the section on Story mode. I just can't see Sakurai going back to the Subspace Emissary after the amount of gaff he's publicly given it in the past. Plus, the Great Maze was very maligned by the fanbase for feeling too long and too much like filler. If Sakurai really was going back to Subspace for ideas, why would he go to what was generally the least liked level of the entire mode?

If I had to guess it would be for a more streamlined experience, the Great Maze was basically an algamation of all the game’s worlds, and since you’d be experiencing it on one run this time, if they shortened it and made it a bit more accessible I think it could work out just fine.

Also sorry if I wasn’t clear but I should not have worded it as a Story Mode, I don’t think they’d give a story due to Sakurai’s distaste for cutscenes being uploaded to the internet, if we were to get an Adventure Mode I feel it would be without cutscenes aka Melee.

 

[Ignoritus]

Spoiler: Smash 4

Smash 4:

Expected:
Somewhat expected:
Talked about but not really expected: ultlucina:
Completely out of the left field:

The only serious discussion Greninja had was about including it into a Kalos Trainer. Greninja as a standalone character was almost always tossed aside.

Villager had to deal with the Brawl comments from Sakurai so most people disregarded him. They made an exception for Miis due to receiving more combat oriented roles and just being that major. Villager's confirmation made Mii doubters reconsider as well.

Rosalina was generally seen as sometime low on the totem pole due to her recent creation. Other Mario characters would get in first.

]

As someone who was around for Smash 4 speculation I'd argue this is some revisionism of its own. Palutena, and Pacman were at best somewhat expected due to some of the complications associated with each of them. I heard barely any discussion of Bowser Jr in Smash 4 speculation. Shulk was only really seen as likely post-Gematsu. And I never heard the name Corrin prior to their reveal. Corrin was for sure out of the left field.

 

[KingBroly]

SE is a business. They own Geno, sure. But they can't do much with him on their own. He's a bad choice in that vein as Geno himself does nothing for the company unlike a character like Lightning, Crono, Lara Croft, Erdrick/Roto etc. They've got a vast array of marketable and current characters and I don't see SE being down with Geno being used over something that's actually beneficial.

Square was pretty stringent with Cloud/FF stuff in Smash 4. I would suspect them to follow suit with any character/series licensing

 

[perfectchaos83]

NDAs exist for a reason, or the voice work wasn't recorded yet. Meanwhile Sakurai said the Villager had eight alts and not sixteen. You can't really pick and choose there. Personally an Adventure Mode sets off a lot more red flags to me.

My point, however, is that this one hasn't been debunked. A ton of leaks haven't been debunked. The Ashley one isn't special in that regard.

This is fair, but 90% of leaks can't be verified until something happens. In the meantime, I typically weigh claims. Sakurai, in General, is a crowd pleaser. I don't see a Melee styled Adventure mode as a pipe dream. If it said SSE? I'd agree. But An Adventure mode on it's face doesn't raise flags with me.

The first part is a good point, the second one not so much, I’d argue that Square would actually be fine with them using him since he had a Mii Costume in 4 and he’s been a fairly popular request so they’d benefit from adding him.

It could be he's a Mii costume because that's all they want out of him. Geno's not marketable. He's not going to get SE extra Revenue like Cloud (For example) will. He was never used in the Mario Sports games SE developed and if Geno can't even make those I don't see why SE would care to have him in Smash.

 

[Originality]

Alright I've been away for a bit, what's new? Verge said Isabelle?

 

[SvartWolf]

As someone who was around for Smash 4 speculation I'd argue this is some revisionism of its own. Palutena, and Pacman were at best somewhat expected due to some of the complications associated with each of them. I heard barely any discussion of Bowser Jr in Smash 4 speculation. Shulk was only really seen as likely post-Gematsu. And I never heard the name Corrin prior to their reveal. Corrin was for sure out of the left field.

Kamui had a thread back then , obviously you never heard of corrin before cause.... well "corrin" didn't existed, but Kamui had some talk... I agree that at least i wasnt expecting bowser jr. I think that palutena though was totallly expected.

 

[Starbound]

Erica Lindbeck confirmed she wasn't called for Celica in Smash (Pre-E3,but worth noting). Also, Geno (In my opinion) sets off red flags. I see no scenario where Square would want Geno to be their 2nd rep.

It's not like a VA can say "Hi guys I'm voicing this unannounced character in Smash Bros!". That breaks the NDA and, effectively, ends her career.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Square-Enix already has Super Mario RPG available via things like VC. They clearly were fine with Geno in Smash alone via the Mii costume. They agreed that Sakurai could use the character. There's nothing to lose by letting him in as playable as is. Cloud's already there, so the biggest "obstacle" is gone. There's no obvious reason for them to say no. Sakurai has made it clear who he's interested in, and the only SE character is clearly Geno(that we know of), and that alone can be enough.