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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Apollo500

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Do u guys expect a reveal this week?
This week? Honestly, no. I feel like reveals for this month will be saved until Gamescom, where they might reveal something. Plus, while I think there will be a Direct this month to cover the paid online component, I think it'll be around mid-late August. There was the August 3rd Direct 'leak', but that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
It’d be cool if they showed off 2 new characters this month.
I'm skeptical that they'd announce two unique newcomers together, but I could definitely see a newcomer and an Echo being revealed at once.
 

Pyra

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If you could choose to see all the Echoes this month or one unique newcomer, which one would you pick?
Echos. It would probably answer some questions for people, and also I don't seem to mind them as much as the majority of people do. If it's someone I find interesting but don't feel the need to protect their "honor of being a unique character" for some reason (...?) I'll probably play as them over their counterpart.
For instance, I very much intend on ignoring Peach's existence over Daisy, so having that option is nice.
 
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RileyXY1

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I remember the whole Roy problem.

Heck in his Smash trailer they even joke around it by having Roy dash attack the other Roy off the screen.

This was also something that bothered some Isaac fans for a while because apparently Isaac’s name in JP is Robin. Weird...
Robin is known as Reflet in Japan. There's no problem here.
 

ColietheGoalie

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Sorry if you've talked about it earlier and i didn't see, but I'm kind of interested on why you think there are too many third parties.
Personally: I was a Nintendo kid. Never owned a PlayStation of any kind until I was in my 20's, and I've still never owned an X-Box, so the Nintendo history is the stuff that means more to me. While I can respect their place in history, guys like Ryu and Cloud had zero influence on my childhood.

Roster-wise: As was brought up by someone else just now, the fact that the "big" Nintendo star are already in means we can dig into some more retro/obscure/niche fighters, and I love that kind of stuff. Suddenly throwing open the door to Third-Parties and making it a "gaming" crossover means that those niche characters are totally irrelevant now. Why add the protagonist of a beloved but forgotten 90's Nintendo series when Sonic/Master Chief/Laura Croft are the table?

I actually am not against Third-Parties categorically. It happened more gradually.

:ultsnake: - "What a weird choice! I love how out-of-place and random he is. A cool guest character"
:ultsonic: - "He's super-iconic and him and Mario were big rivals, so that makes sense. He fits in nicely with the cast."
:ultmegaman: - "Sweet. Another retro icon"
:ultpacman: - "A little odd, but he's one of the original gaming characters, so I can dig it. Four guests in a roster out of more than 5 is more than reasonable."
:ultryu: - "...OK. I'd rather someone else, but he seems alright."
:ultcloud: - "...I guess some people will be excited"
:ultbayonetta: - "Seriously? DLC has been such a disappointment."

It wasn't really until DLC finished that I got actively annoyed with how many there were. And now it's opened the floodgates to lobbying for every JRPG protagonist and Twitch-friendly franchise under the sun, which, again, as a fan of mainly classic Nintendo, is mildly disheartening.

Still, not everyone shares that view, and I get that. It's just the way my gaming history and the evolution of the series has shaped my perspective.
 

Bowserlick

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I personally would choose all the Echoes as an August reveal.

Of course, there could be an Echo of an unique newcomer.
Which would be a fun mystery for some and possibly kill the excitement of a full on reveal for others.
 

PlayerOneTyler

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So, potential Zelda newcomers anyone? I think it's long overdue personally. Impa is a front runner for sure, and for good reasons. But if she's a Echo of Sheik, there's room for more probably.
I've been wanting Impa since Brawl. I really hope this is her time to shine. I feel like making her an echo is such an easy and obvious choice. She's definitely my most wanted for the game.

Skull Kid
Please
I beg
Beg harder.

lul i kid. I wouldn't mind Skull Kid... I would just rather Impa.
 

RileyXY1

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I'm fine with third parties. Some of them are just as big of Nintendo icons as the 1st party characters. Others are just pretty notable characters. I like that Ryu and Cloud got in because they shattered stupid fan rules for 3rd party characters.. Ryu broke the "one character per company" rule and Cloud broke the "third party character must have a good relationship with Nintendo" rule.
 

Mc.Rad

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It wasn't really until DLC finished that I got actively annoyed with how many there were. And now it's opened the floodgates to lobbying for every JRPG protagonist and Twitch-friendly franchise under the sun, which, again, as a fan of mainly classic Nintendo, is mildly disheartening.

Still, not everyone shares that view, and I get that. It's just the way my gaming history and the evolution of the series has shaped my perspective.
I hate to start ****, but I honestly think its great that we're seeing more 3rd Party characters in Smash Bros. I kind of love the ideal of it being this sort of huge videogame crossover and the whole prospect of getting a character from a famous franchise in Smash is kind of thrilling to me, even if in reality it wouldn't be a JRPG boys like Loyyd or whatever Tales MC it is... it may likely be more notable people
 

Noventiaa

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It’d be cool if they showed off 2 new characters this month.
I mean it really depends on how many newcomers there actually are. If they keep showing off 2 per month we know we have a lot because they wouldn't show everything in such a short space of time. If we only get 1 per 2 months we know there's not a lot and they're maybe saving some things for right before release or keeping them secret as an unlockable.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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Weather the character is Nintendo or a third party doesn't matter to me.

As long as they're cool and fun to play as I'm sold.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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At the time, there was a Bayonetta discussion going on in this forum. One person mentioned that they didn't care for the fact that she was back, and quite a few people jumped on them for it. As if they just could not stand to let an opinion other than theirs slip by. This fueled the 'It's okay to not like' part.

There was also a post in the RTC thread where someone mentioned that they wouldn't mind a certain character getting in, just so that they could 'revel in the salt' of another character's fanbase. That fueled the 'Don't be an *** about it' part.
Wow...just wow
If you could choose to see all the Echoes this month or one unique newcomer, which one would you pick?
Unique newcomer
Skull Kid and Impa seem to be the front runners and I want them both real bad.
Imagine if both joined Ultimate...beautiful
I will embrace them in my arms.
How about every other Goku
:ultsnake: - "What a weird choice! I love how out-of-place and random he is. A cool guest character"
:ultsonic: - "He's super-iconic and him and Mario were big rivals, so that makes sense. He fits in nicely with the cast."
:ultmegaman: - "Sweet. Another retro icon"
:ultpacman: - "A little odd, but he's one of the original gaming characters, so I can dig it. Four guests in a roster out of more than 5 is more than reasonable."
:ultryu: - "...OK. I'd rather someone else, but he seems alright."
:ultcloud: - "...I guess some people will be excited"
:ultbayonetta: - "Seriously? DLC has been such a disappointment."
These are the opposite reactions for each of these characters that I had (hell some I never heard of and others I instantly loved through Smash...then there’s Bayo who I never assumed would be in a crossover)
:ultsonic: I never heard of until Brawl and the Olympic Games...only to instantly fall in love with the series
:ultryu: I knew of...but sucked/still suck at SF
:ultpacman: Must always be known and loved
:ultmegaman: Heard of from a friend out of curiosity...will never try to beat one of his games but music is so juicy
:ultsnake: Heard if through Smash like :ultsonic:...but never got into his games (though he’s always been cool to me and deserves a better ending than what was given to the series)
:ultbayonetta: Never expected to join and only wanted to play her games due to E3 2014 and GameXplain getting me into the games...don’t regret playing both games one bit months before her announcement and am glad she’s in Smash (but am scared to fight her
:ultcloud:...who?
 

Mc.Rad

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I mean it really depends on how many newcomers there actually are. If they keep showing off 2 per month we know we have a lot because they wouldn't show everything in such a short space of time. If we only get 1 per 2 months we know there's not a lot and they're maybe saving some things for right before release or keeping them secret as an unlockable.
Who knows how many new peeps we'll be able to get right away. When Melee came out we could pick 4 new characters right out of the gate. However, Sakurai did state that we may have a small roaster of the N64 Vets at first. So I'm thinking most newcomers may be a suprise or be revealed like how Some where in Smash 4
 

praline

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This week? Honestly, no. I feel like reveals for this month will be saved until Gamescom, where they might reveal something. Plus, while I think there will be a Direct this month to cover the paid online component, I think it'll be around mid-late August. There was the August 3rd Direct 'leak', but that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

I'm skeptical that they'd announce two unique newcomers together, but I could definitely see a newcomer and an Echo being revealed at once.
New doesn’t necessarily mean unique. Ridley and Daisy were new characters shown in June and Daisy isn’t a unique character.
 

dezeray112

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ColietheGoalie ColietheGoalie - Whilst I do respect your opinion, but I really liked the inclusion of guest characters as other than Nintendo, there are other properties which I had played within other platforms such as Street Fighter, Sonic the Hedgehog and Final Fantasy since my childhood.

Anyways, I personally do not mind whether an echo or a new character will be unveiled next. I'm just hoping to hear further new information about the game.
 

ColietheGoalie

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I hate to start ****, but I honestly think its great that we're seeing more 3rd Party characters in Smash Bros. I kind of love the ideal of it being this sort of huge videogame crossover and the whole prospect of getting a character from a famous franchise in Smash is kind of thrilling to me, even if in reality it wouldn't be a JRPG boys like Loyyd or whatever Tales MC it is... it may likely be more notable people
You're not really starting anything. I already admit that not everyone has the same perspective I do, and in fact, people are STILL hyped about the likes of Cloud, so obviously some people like the direction it's going. For me though, DLC was the tipping point into disappointment. It basically brought back a few cut veterans, and then Third-Parties that I had no attachment to. Considering the possibilities, that was a let-down.

I mean, if they want to do a "gaming crossover", why not actually do one proper? Instead of just slowly shoe-horning TP's into Smash, actually make a giant crossover with the best of the best in gaming history? Obviously it would be a licensing nightmare, but some of these companies have already shown a willingness to play ball.
 

Fatmanonice

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Top quality posting.

I heard Brawl Speculation and the wait was interesting. What was the Brawl Speculation like?
Dude, don't... thinking about how the start of Brawl speculation was 13 years ago makes me feel so goddamn old... Anyways, it was an emotional rollercoaster. E3 06 was, of course, bonkers and then we waited 5 1/2 months for a handful of stages and Fox, testing everyone's patience to the umpteenth degree. Then it was another 5 months before the daily updates started and that also blew our minds because the updated veterans started coming out almost every week. Then E3 07 was super underwhelming and then we lost our minds again in August when Sakurai decided to start showing newcomers on a near weekly basis until the end of October. Of course, Sonic was revealed and the hype killed Smashboards for a few days.

November- January 08 was brutal because all we got was Sheik and Olimar and everyone was getting antsy. Then the game was leaked in late January and it caused catastrophic butthurt like the fandom never saw before. Some people held out hope for DLC until Sakurai outright said the Wii was too weak to handle it at GDC 08. Then it became even more divisive because a lot of people thought Brawl was going to be the final Smash game so the butthurt multiplied because of the garbage online, the roster, tripping, lack of balance, etc. Most people eventually got over it because they either went back to Melee, got involved with Project M or just decided to bunker down until a possible Smash 4.
 

osby

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You're not really starting anything. I already admit that not everyone has the same perspective I do, and in fact, people are STILL hyped about the likes of Cloud, so obviously some people like the direction it's going. For me though, DLC was the tipping point into disappointment. It basically brought back a few cut veterans, and then Third-Parties that I had no attachment to. Considering the possibilities, that was a let-down.

I mean, if they want to do a "gaming crossover", why not actually do one proper? Instead of just slowly shoe-horning TP's into Smash, actually make a giant crossover with the best of the best in gaming history? Obviously it would be a licensing nightmare, but some of these companies have already shown a willingness to play ball.
Like, 1/10 of the fighters are guests, they aren't invading the game. And I don't know how their inclusion was "shoe-horning", considering all of them were popular characters.
 
D

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Dude, don't... thinking about how the start of Brawl speculation was 13 years ago makes me feel so goddamn old... Anyways, it was an emotional rollercoaster. E3 06 was, of course, bonkers and then we waited 5 1/2 months for a handful of stages and Fox, testing everyone's patience to the umpteenth degree. Then it was another 5 months before the daily updates started and that also blew our minds because the updated veterans started coming out almost every week. Then E3 07 was super underwhelming and then we lost our minds again in August when Sakurai decided to start showing newcomers on a near weekly basis until the end of October. Of course, Sonic was revealed and the hype killed Smashboards for a few days.

November- January 08 was brutal because all we got was Sheik and Olimar and everyone was getting antsy. Then the game was leaked in late January and it caused catastrophic butthurt like the fandom never saw before. Some people held out hope for DLC until Sakurai outright said the Wii was too weak to handle it at GDC 08. Then it became even more divisive because a lot of people thought Brawl was going to be the final Smash game so the butthurt multiplied because of the garbage online, the roster, tripping, lack of balance, etc. Most people eventually got over it because they either went back to Melee, got involved with Project M or just decided to bunker down until a possible Smash 4.
Wow, what an interesting story. Thank you for telling me. :p
The speculation seemed a lot more radical in Brawl speculation than in Ultimate speculation.
I heard of the wait where things were leaked. I could imagine what the internet was like when Sonic was revealed in Brawl.
 
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Imadethistoseealeak

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I've been wanting Impa since Brawl. I really hope this is her time to shine. I feel like making her an echo is such an easy and obvious choice. She's definitely my most wanted for the game.
Impa is basically one of the more guarnteed characters in my book, like no one is a guarantee but she's one of the three I'd put money on. Her being an echo just makes so much sense. I just hope her fans will be glad she's in instead of salty she isn't unique.

Wait...since Brawl??? You wanted OOT Impa? That's not something I've heard a lot of lol
 
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Guybrush20X6

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Like, 1/10 of the fighters are guests, they aren't invading the game. And I don't know how their inclusion was "shoe-horning", considering all of them were popular characters.
Well Bayonetta can be argued otherwise but as for the rest:

:ultsnake:: (Back in Brawl's times) The face of stealth games, huge franchise and the most cinematic games in the genre (for better or worse)
:ultsonic:: vs:ultmario:, nuff said
:ultmegaman:: One of few series so synonymous with the NES that people thought it was a Nintendo game
:ultpacman:: The first mascot of gaming
:ultryu:: The vanilla ice cream of fighting games.
:ultcloud:: The face of JRPGs
 

ColietheGoalie

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Like, 1/10 of the fighters are guests, they aren't invading the game. And I don't know how their inclusion was "shoe-horning", considering all of them were popular characters.
Between Brawl to Smash4 it went from 5.4% of the roster -> 10.3%. With that kind of growth pattern and all the random TP's people are requesting, it could be higher soon. Don't get me wrong, the end isn't nigh or anything. I'd just prefer we keep a lid on it :p

Also, while maybe a dismissive word choice, Bayo at the very least was a BIT of a shoe-horn.
 

Fatmanonice

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It was intense because from June to November 07 we were seeing new stuff multiple times a week whether it was characters, items, assist trophies, music, final smashes, stages, etc. It was kind of an overload and it was no wonder that our expectations were skyhigh for the game. After Brawl, Nintendo changed their approach to revealing games and why they rarely show anything that has more than 18 months left of development anymore.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Well Bayonetta can be argued otherwise but as for the rest:

:ultsnake:: (Back in Brawl's times) The face of stealth games, huge franchise and the most cinematic games in the genre (for better or worse)
:ultsonic:: vs:ultmario:, nuff said
:ultmegaman:: One of few series so synonymous with the NES that people thought it was a Nintendo game
:ultpacman:: The first mascot of gaming
:ultryu:: The vanilla ice cream of fighting games.
:ultcloud:: The face of JRPGs
I guess Bayo represents the modern generation of 3rd parties as well as the “hack and slash” genre and witches everywhere
 

osby

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Wait, I forgot to say this to you, but did someone actually say that?
No, but wouldn't be the most stupid thing I've heard here.

Between Brawl to Smash4 it went from 5.4% of the roster -> 10.3%. With that kind of growth pattern and all the random TP's people are requesting, it could be higher soon. Don't get me wrong, the end isn't nigh or anything. I'd just prefer we keep a lid on it :p

Also, while maybe a dismissive word choice, Bayo at the very least was a BIT of a shoe-horn.
Didn't she added because people voted for her? I didn't heard anyone saying you can't just put characters because of the ballot during that time.
 

Diddy Kong

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Either this or next week. Or
the week after, which is the speculated drop date for the latest Xenoblade 2 patch that will add Elma from Xenoblade X as a playable Blade. It’s possible she may also be revealed in Smash with it.
This is quite damn good for Elma's chances I'd say!
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Can I just say I think the ideas of character selection that fans come up with can be utterly crazy?

I’m not trying to point any specific people out, honestly. But the thing is, everybody makes predictions or shoots characters down with little to no consideration of game development or game design. Those are two different things, first of all, and the character selections aren’t as some characterize them to be.

For instance, niche Nintendo characters aren’t necessarily passed over in favor of 3rd parties. Characters are picked because of a variety of reasons. Whereas the Smash fanbase focuses (imho) way too much on who or what “deserves” to get in, Sakurai is trying to make something that is legitimately fun to play.

For Ike in Brawl, Sakurai was looking for a heavy sword user. He picked Ike and made him work to that archetype.

We could sit here all day and make ridiculous claims like “Cloud was picked over K.Rool” but we all know that’s not true. I understand K.Rool isn’t niche, but you get the point I would assume.

In regard to game design, the premise of adding a character as playable when they were already designated a role in the game in another form is a bit shaky. As i’ve said before, why waste the time programming the same character for multiple roles? Especially when they’re spending excessive time working on the characters they currently have added?

Are certain characters more important than others? Yes.

Do some characters carry more gaming history or Nintendo history than others? Yes.

Should Sakurai simply pick what’s “popular” or “important” or “deserving” rather than what’s good for gameplay or expanding the scope of Smash? I’d have to give a hard no.

Popular characters can end up with good gameplay, and hats really what he should shoot for. It’s happened multiple times. Rarely have we seen a character with gameplay that wasn’t at least worthwhile.

Make no mistake though. A lot of the stuff that’s getting discussed this round of speculation? It probably doesn’t even matter or is completely missing the boat.

This is exactly why I want a bombshell reveal to either disconfirm or confirm the role of any particular character who gets a butt ton of attention. It’s not because I want people to be sad. It’s because the same thoughts are being recycled and don’t seem to really be based on anything particularly convincing for “It’ll be fun!”.

Also, let’s be nice to each other please. This is a video game.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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Platinum Games owns nothing from Bayonetta and just makes the games, while Sega owns the series and Nintendo owns the publishing rights to Bayo 2-3 (and probably the rest of the series)...the hell world
 

PlayerOneTyler

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Impa is basically one of the more guarnteed characters in my book, like no one is a guarantee but she's one of the three I'd put money on. Her being an echo just makes so much sense. I just hope her fans will be glad she's in instead of salty she isn't unique.

Wait...since Brawl??? You wanted OOT Impa? That's not something I've heard a lot of lol
YUP. I'm a huge LoZ fan, and I thought that they'd get rid of Sheik and put in Impa. I thought that they'd get rid of transformations in Brawl because no one played Zelda and only played Sheik, and I always thought the lack of a down special felt weird. That way they could give Zelda more potential to be good while still keeping Sheik's moveset (and not have two of the same person as separate characters), lol. Sheik was the last veteran reveal before the game launched, so I REALLY thought she was gone, too. haha.

Obviously a lot of the opposite happened in Brawl (including adding TWO MORE transformation characters), but I would still love Impa.

Also, Impa wasn't my top choice for LoZ during Brawl's time. I really wanted Midna back then, haha.
 
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P.Kat

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Still have my fingers crossed for Sora to make it in.
Only your fingers? Shame on you! I have my fingers, hands, arms, legs, feet, toes, and all my t's on my papers crossed. I'm basically typing this out, and going about my day as a human pretzel. You gotta step up your game if you want Sora. XD
as long as it keeps Isaac out of the game
For what reason? What did he do to you?
If Sony won’t do crossplay with Nintendo and Microsoft, there’s no way they’d ever allow their characters to be in Smash (plus they can continue their Smash ripoff instead)
One reason why I'll won't be able to get Kat from Gravity Rush :( If only a Bayonetta situation could happen and Nintendo adopts an abandoned Gravity Rush.
Upgrading Waluigi is opening a Pandora's Box Y'all.

What about other Assist Trophies? Should they be upgraded? "Why does Sakurai hate [character/series]?"

Imagine the salt if Midna or Ghirahim weren't upgraded but Waluigi was, what a slap in the face to fans of those characters and Zelda fans in general. Redesigns are nice but it'd be a low blow that someone like Waluigi was prioritized over other fan picks like Midna/Ghirahim.

Imagine the salt if Lyn was upgraded, "another sword-user", "another FE character". You know they'd upgrade Lyn if Assist Trophies could be upgraded for DLC, her immense popularity was shown to IS and Nintendo in 2017 with CYL and she's been growing ever since. Heroes has made $400 million, it's obvious that it has influence and Lyn is free money at that point.

Imagine the salt if... I could go on and on. You may think we have hit some peak levels of irritation when it comes to playable characters but "all Assist Trophies are equal but some are more equal than others." is going to seriously harm the Smash fanbase.
Little Mac was upgraded, I don't remember any mass rage on the internet because of it. Whether Sakurai puts out an 'Assist Trophy Promotion Ballot', or he makes the choice himself of which AT becomes playable, people will either have to accept what happens and move forward, or don't buy the AT DLC.
 
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