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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Cosmic77

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Honestly I don't think Lucas, Roy, OR Wolf is going to be in the base game of Smash 5. DLC, maybe, but hell no to base game.
If Lucas and Roy get cut a second time, I don't see the purpose in bringing them back as DLC again. I'd rather Sakurai spend that time working on DLC for other veterans like Wolf or Ice Climbers. Then again, if the DLC has Lucina or Dark Pit, I'll gladly take Lucas and Roy. There ain't no way I'm gonna be paying money for those two.

I'd prefer Impa, one reason is I do not know enough about Tingle to comment on him. If push came to shove Sheik would be in the next round of cuts.
I think Sheik is safe just because she's been present since Melee. The chances of Impa and Tingle ever being added are slipping away with each game. Those two have had at least 3 opportunities to be added to a Smash game, and now we're getting to the point to where even more modern characters like Midna and Tetra are unlikely due to how much time has passed since their debut. As the Zelda franchise moves forward, new characters will be introduced, and those characters are going to pose a large threat to gals like Impa and Midna.

I don't really want any third party franchises getting more than one character, especially when we already have so many third party characters.
The only third-party franchise I'd be okay with getting another character is Sonic. But I'm no idiot; I know that adding a second Sonic character is going to make way for all the other third-party franchises to get a second character too. This is supposed to be a Nintendo all-star game, so why don't we put our focus on Nintendo's own franchises?

While I believe BotW will have character representation in the form of a Champion, for some reason I feel like Odyssey will not, maybe just a stage or two, plus trophies and items of course. Though I’d gladly have Cappy incorporated in Mario’s moveset somehow, replacing FLUDD for example, and mostly just visual, no actual capture mechanic. But I dunno.

I’m totally seeing Cappy, Pauline and the Broodals appearing in any future Mario spin-off’s though (Mario Kart).
I can't see anything Sakurai can do with Pauline or Cappy, but I'll keep an open mind. It's not like Rosalina had much to go off of either.
 

Diddy Kong

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I think Sheik is safe just because she's been present since Melee. The chances of Impa and Tingle ever being added are slipping away with each game. Those two have had at least 3 opportunities to be added to a Smash game, and now we're getting to the point to where even more modern characters like Midna and Tetra are unlikely due to how much time has passed since their debut. As the Zelda franchise moves forward, new characters will be introduced, and those characters are going to pose a large threat to gals like Impa and Midna.
I wish this wasn't as much the case. However, I still think Impa and Midna both have their chances. They aren't exactly old news, and Hyrule Warriors did a great deal for them.

Especially Impa could benefit from BOTW, ironically. Cause she can use some of the Sheikah Slate abilities. Even the Final DLC added SOME options for her. Albeit not directly used by her. She's easily the only Zelda character left who has lasting importance throughout the whole franchise. And if you'd say it's not sensible for Impa to use Link's magic, why exactly is Zelda using Link's magic from OOT? It'd be the exact same thing. Plus, she's actually in BOTW... Just not in a workable form unfortunately.

Midna can be lucky if they keep the TP designs for Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. That way she can benefit greatly of Twilight Princess was ported, much like how Sheik likely was kept because she appeared in OOT3D. Anyway, Midna wasn't in BOTW, but Wolf Link was. So that's still something I guess. :rolleyes:

Problem with the new characters introduced is that none really make a lasting impression. However, I could see any of the Champions being added. Problem is though, who would they add?

Sheik being cut however? I could see it happening because she is easily the only Nintendo character who will never really appear in a main game ever again. I just don't see it ever happening again. And yes, Ness and Lucas suffer the same fate, but MOTHER is a franchise already over and done with. Zelda isn't. And her being her own character wasn't really a great decision overall. She's still Zelda after all, and being on her own really doesn't make much sense. She's being shoehorned into Smash and only is popular cause of her insane overpowered moveset for the greatest part. :rolleyes: Her moveset doesn't represent Zelda in ANY shape or form either. So why keep her around honestly?
You're giving Lucina way too much priority here.
Yes, this could be. But that's because Lucina is pretty much the second Marth of the franchise right now. She's almost as much promoted as Marth is. And that's a lot. She is easily one of the more popular Fire Emblem characters in the whole franchise. I think that's enough merrit to keep her. Even IF she's just the same as she is now. Cause that would mean she's a popular character who's EXTREMELY easy to re-add.
 
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Cosmic77

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Yes, this could be. But that's because Lucina is pretty much the second Marth of the franchise right now. She's almost as much promoted as Marth is. And that's a lot. She is easily one of the more popular Fire Emblem characters in the whole franchise. I think that's enough merrit to keep her. Even IF she's just the same as she is now. Cause that would mean she's a popular character who's EXTREMELY easy to re-add.
I can't speak for Sakurai on this topic, but if I had to choose which veterans got to stay, movesets would be more important than the character themselves. It's no secret that Lucina is more popular than Robin and Corrin, but setting popularity aside, what does Lucina offer that the other two don't? Cutting Lucina would be tragic for her fans, but at least the people who play her can quickly adapt to Marth. The same can't be said for Robin and Corrin.

Going off of previous Smash games, being easy to program hasn't exactly worked out well for clones. Did Dr. Mario have a few late appointments that prevented him from being in Brawl?
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
This might be a controversial opinion but ARMS could have four characters and none of them would play 'Exactly' the same.

There are too many weapons and unique abilities between characters for ARMS to be limited to just Springman or Ribbon girl or for them to be swaps of one another.

Pics:

Springman

Ribbon Girl

Max Brass

Dr. Cyole (villain)
I'd say if any ARMS character gets in after Spring Man and Ribbon Girl, it would likely be Twintelle.

Base Pauline on this, I guess kind of make her Olimar
Pauline and the Minis go together so well. She could be Smash's first summoner.

Do you lot think if Monster Hunter gets a rep they should add in a Felyne instead of just a regular hunter? Felynes stand out much more and give off more personality than just an unnamed hunter.
 

Diddy Kong

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I can't speak for Sakurai on this topic, but if I had to choose which veterans got to stay, movesets would be more important than the character themselves. It's no secret that Lucina is more popular than Robin and Corrin, but setting popularity aside, what does Lucina offer that the other two don't? Cutting Lucina would be tragic for her fans, but at least the people who play her can quickly adapt to Marth. The same can't be said for Robin and Corrin.

Going off of previous Smash games, being easy to program hasn't exactly worked out well for clones. Did Dr. Mario have a few late appointments that prevented him from being in Brawl?
In Dr.Mario's case? I think they just prefered to add in Wolf as a StarFox newcomer and Toon Link to have a newer addition for Zelda, who otherwise wouldn't have had a newcomer. Plus, Jigglypuff also wasn't added yet. I think it's logical that these characters where prioritised at that point in time.

I get what you're saying with the movesets. But this mentality will keep a lot of bad overall choices on the roster. What would happen to fans of Wii Fit Trainer when they'd get cut, for example? I think Lucina adds a nice balance to Marth's playstyle, and her being easy to recreate seems a win/ win situation. Robin and Corrin aren't nearly as popular as her, but if I'd had to pick whom to cut... I'd probably go for Robin. Even Sakurai himself stated that if Awakening didn't came out when it did and wasn't super recent, Robin likely wouldn't have made it. Still think that Corrin, Roy and Lucina would make the roster if Robin didn't.

So I'd cut the wizard, and hope that New FE would add a mage as a leading character.

However, it's hard to talk cuts in general. If I wouldn't revamp Lucina, I would just keep her exactly as she is right now. I see nothing wrong with her inclusion. She literally takes nothing away from the roster.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I think if we get another Sonic character, Tails and Knuckles would have more priority than Metal Sonic and Shadow because of Mania and the Genesis games.
That's a bad argument. What you mean is that they've been around for a long time as playable characters back in the day, as Metal was in Mania too after all. Plus, there's Forces for Shadow if you want to argue recent playable appearances
Sheik being cut however? I could see it happening because she is easily the only Nintendo character who will never really appear in a main game ever again.
1: Sheik is Zelda, so she's going to appear again on the grounds that she's Zelda
2: Sheik was in Ocarina of Time, one of the most beloved games in the history of gaming, which was brand new when Melee was out and the remake was rather new when 4 came out
3: There's unused Sheik concept art for Twilight Princess, which was used for Sheik's Brawl design
4: Sheik was in Hyrule Warriors, if you're going to say Midna and Impa get better chances and relevancy because of that game, you must do the same for Sheik
 

Cosmic77

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In Dr.Mario's case? I think they just prefered to add in Wolf as a StarFox newcomer and Toon Link to have a newer addition for Zelda, who otherwise wouldn't have had a newcomer. Plus, Jigglypuff also wasn't added yet. I think it's logical that these characters where prioritised at that point in time.

I get what you're saying with the movesets. But this mentality will keep a lot of bad overall choices on the roster. What would happen to fans of Wii Fit Trainer when they'd get cut, for example? I think Lucina adds a nice balance to Marth's playstyle, and her being easy to recreate seems a win/ win situation. Robin and Corrin aren't nearly as popular as her, but if I'd had to pick whom to cut... I'd probably go for Robin. Even Sakurai himself stated that if Awakening didn't came out when it did and wasn't super recent, Robin likely wouldn't have made it. Still think that Corrin, Roy and Lucina would make the roster if Robin didn't.

So I'd cut the wizard, and hope that New FE would add a mage as a leading character.

However, it's hard to talk cuts in general. If I wouldn't revamp Lucina, I would just keep her exactly as she is right now. I see nothing wrong with her inclusion. She literally takes nothing away from the roster.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say about WFT. Sure she's unpopular, but she's certainly unique. I'd be inclined to keep her over Lucina.

Again, I think you're focusing too much on the character and not the moveset itself. Robin is easily one of the most unique FE characters. His tomes and wide-range attacks make him stand out from the others. Lucina might compliment Marth well, but she doesn't do much when compared to the rest of the 58 characters (save for Dark Pit). If Sakurai had to cut a single FE character, why would he cut the most unique one and keep the character that was intended to be a practice character of sorts for those interested in maining Marth?

In my eyes: :4lucina:<:4feroy:<:4corrin:(Only because he's DLC) <:4marth::4myfriends::4robinm:

Just my opinion. Most would probably disagree with it, but I'm hoping at least a few people here can see where I'm coming from.
 

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I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say about WFT. Sure she's unpopular, but she's certainly unique. I'd be inclined to keep her over Lucina.

Again, I think you're focusing too much on the character and not the moveset itself. Robin is easily one of the most unique FE characters. His tomes and wide-range attacks make him stand out from the others. Lucina might compliment Marth well, but she doesn't do much when compared to the rest of the 58 characters (save for Dark Pit). If Sakurai had to cut a single FE character, why would he cut the most unique one and keep the character that was intended to be a practice character of sorts for those interested in maining Marth?

In my eyes: :4lucina:<:4feroy:<:4corrin:(Only because he's DLC) <:4marth::4myfriends::4robinm:

Just my opinion. Most would probably disagree with it, but I'm hoping at least a few people here can see where I'm coming from.
I mean, I see where you're coming from, but at the same time I can't see Lucina being cut due to just how prominent she is. In addition to being the third most popular character in the series over all, she's tied with Robin for the most variants in Heroes (and Robin is mostly because of the gender split) and has tons more merchandise than a lot of other Fire Emblem characters.

But most importantly is the fact that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems have pushed for her in the past. Notably, Koei-Tecmo wasn't originally going to include her in Fire Emblem Warriors, but Nintendo and IS forced them to pretty late in development. Considering she takes almost no effort to make in Smash, I could see them pushing Sakurai to include her again as a result.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Well lol, I thought Max Brass's ability to bulk up and give himself super armor was a defining trait. Also, his standard kit gives him a hammer, and an explosion fist. Also, he's more integral to the lore than Sprigntron.
The bulk up is a defining trait, but that's basically the only unique gimmick he has. The shockwave while charging and permanent buff at low health are both taken from Spring Man.

As for the unique ARMS... point taken, but he'd still be a semi-clone at best, especially since the two share many animations in the game.

And the Springtron argument... well, the fact that he was built by Coyle to be superior than Spring Man is arguably more important to the lore than someone who happens to be the commish of the ARMS League, especially when we take a look at how important Coyle is. But then again, ARMS doesn't have much lore in the first place (at least for now), so it's not like it's an important argument. But if we want plot-important characters in Smash, the only ones who really matter to what little plot ARMS has are Max Brass, Dr. Coyle, Hedlok, Springtron (and by extension Spring Man), Helix and Master Mummy (only because Coyle reanimated him). Everyone else is just participating at the tournament and nothing else

That's a bad argument. What you mean is that they've been around for a long time as playable characters back in the day, as Metal was in Mania too after all. Plus, there's Forces for Shadow if you want to argue recent playable appearances
I guess those are good points.

Still, I doubt Metal would be the second Sonic character in Smash.
 
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Cosmic77

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I mean, I see where you're coming from, but at the same time I can't see Lucina being cut due to just how prominent she is. In addition to being the third most popular character in the series over all, she's tied with Robin for the most variants in Heroes (and Robin is mostly because of the gender split) and has tons more merchandise than a lot of other Fire Emblem characters.

But most importantly is the fact that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems have pushed for her in the past. Notably, Koei-Tecmo wasn't originally going to include her in Fire Emblem Warriors, but Nintendo and IS forced them to pretty late in development. Considering she takes almost no effort to make in Smash, I could see them pushing Sakurai to include her again as a result.
Maybe. It's just hard for me to picture any scenario where we get a FE character cut from the roster and it's not Lucina. Aside from the popularity in her own franchise, what else does she have going for her? She and Dark Pit are the closest thing we've ever gotten to a carbon-copy clone character, Awakening is already repped by Robin, and Roy is a semi-clone of Marth who offers more variety than Lucina. As far as I'm aware, popularity is the only thing Lucina has that would give her an advantage over the others. Yeah, you could argue that Lucina could be changed, but that's a risky move for multiple reasons (Plus, changing Lucina too much would completely nullify the "she's easy to program" arguement).

I'm expecting some character cuts, and based off of Sakurai comments on the abundance of FE characters, I think there's a possibility of seeing someone go. I have nothing against Lucina, but she's by no means unique. I'd hate to see Corrin or Roy get cut over Lucina just because Intelligent Systems and her fans are so determined to keep her.

(Edit: Also, I think it's worth remembering that Sakurai debunked the theory that Game Freak told him which characters to add. Unlike Heroes and Warriors, two games that focus entirely on FE, Smash is a very broad game. If the gaming giant behind Pokemon isn't concerned about which characters are on the roster, I don't see why Intelligent Systems should.)
 
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Maybe. It's just hard for me to picture any scenario where we get a FE character cut from the roster and it's not Lucina. Aside from the popularity in her own franchise, what else does she have going for her? She and Dark Pit are the closest thing we've ever gotten to a carbon-copy clone character, Awakening is already repped by Robin, and Roy is a semi-clone of Marth who offers more variety than Lucina. As far as I'm aware, popularity is the only thing Lucina has that would give her an advantage over the others. Yeah, you could argue that Lucina could be changed, but that's a risky move for multiple reasons (Plus, changing Lucina too much would completely nullify the "she's easy to program" arguement).

I'm expecting some character cuts, and based off of Sakurai comments on the abundance of FE characters, I think there's a possibility of seeing someone go. I have nothing against Lucina, but she's by no means unique. I'd hate to see Corrin or Roy get cut over Lucina just because Intelligent Systems and her fans are so determined to keep her.

(Edit: Also, I think it's worth remembering that Sakurai debunked the theory that Game Freak told him which characters to add. Unlike Warriors, a game that focuses entirely on FE, Smash is a very broad game. If the gaming giant behind Pokemon isn't concerned about which characters are on the roster, I don't see why Intelligent Systems should.)
Well I mean, Sakurai has stated that IS helps pick which Fire Emblem characters get in. They were the ones who suggested Roy and Ike, at the very least. Given that they've had a hand in roster decisions in the past, I could see them pushing for Lucina again.

Honestly, unless an FE6 remake happens during or soon after Smash 5 is developing/developed (which it very well could), I think Roy would go before Lucina.
 

Cosmic77

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Well I mean, Sakurai has stated that IS helps pick which Fire Emblem characters get in. They were the ones who suggested Roy and Ike, at the very least. Given that they've had a hand in roster decisions in the past, I could see them pushing for Lucina again.

Honestly, unless an FE6 remake happens during or soon after Smash 5 is developing/developed (which it very well could), I think Roy would go before Lucina.
I thought that was more or less because Sakurai wasn't entirely sure which FE character to add and he needed them to point him in the right direction. Kinda like how Sakurai went to Game Freak for advice on which Gen VI Pokemon to add, and they suggested Greninja.

And remember, Robin and Lucina were entirely Sakurai's ideas. Chrom was the first choice and Lucina was originally an alt. Sakurai has still made some pretty big decisions regarding FE on his own accord.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Roy will eventually be relevant anyway. Echoes isn't probably gonna be a thing for only FE2. Intelligent Systems has expressed wanting to bring FE6 to the international market anyway. I hope Roy stays honestly.
 

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I have no interest in anymore Fire Emblem characters. I don't know. Give me a kid Fire Emblem lord that's a villain.
 

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I have no interest in anymore Fire Emblem characters. I don't know. Give me a kid Fire Emblem lord that's a villain.
Young Dark Marth? :p
 
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I have no interest in anymore Fire Emblem characters. I don't know. Give me a kid Fire Emblem lord that's a villain.
Funny enough, you basically described Veronica from Fire Emblem Heroes.
 
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But between the three you suggested, I say Eggman. He's just way more important than Metal and Shadow (which is why I didn't really say Tails and Knux have more priority than he does), imo, and can actually bring something unique without being broken, unlike Shadow's Chaos Control.
I'm sorry, but what?

Seriously, what?
 

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Roy will eventually be relevant anyway. Echoes isn't probably gonna be a thing for only FE2. Intelligent Systems has expressed wanting to bring FE6 to the international market anyway. I hope Roy stays honestly.

Thing is, we are still at least two games away from getting Roy's game remade if IS does the remakes in order. Which means Genealogy of the Holy War is likely the next game to be remade and even if Tharcia 776 is combined with a Genealogy remake, that still means a remake of Blazing Sword is still some ways off.

It appears IS and Nintendo are not remaking the Fire Emblem games based on the popularity of the characters, or we would not have gotten a remake of Gaiden over Blazing Sword.

At this point, the only thing that helps Roy is his popularity with the fanbase. Because I doubt he's getting a new game anytime soon. The next Fire Emblem on the Switch will be a brand new title, and will likely be followed by another new game and then a remake. And given Shadow Dragon and Gaiden were both done in order, the next remake is going to be Genealogy of the Holy War.

We will not see a Blazing Sword remake until the next Nintendo console after the Switch.
 

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Thing is, we are still at least two games away from getting Roy's game remade if IS does the remakes in order. Which means Genealogy of the Holy War is likely the next game to be remade and even if Tharcia 776 is combined with a Genealogy remake, that still means a remake of Blazing Sword is still some ways off.

It appears IS and Nintendo are not remaking the Fire Emblem games based on the popularity of the characters, or we would not have gotten a remake of Gaiden over Blazing Sword.

At this point, the only thing that helps Roy is his popularity with the fanbase. Because I doubt he's getting a new game anytime soon. The next Fire Emblem on the Switch will be a brand new title, and will likely be followed by another new game and then a remake. And given Shadow Dragon and Gaiden were both done in order, the next remake is going to be Genealogy of the Holy War.

We will not see a Blazing Sword remake until the next Nintendo console after the Switch.
Actually, Intelligent Systems outright said they'd like to do an Echoes for Roy's game without even mentioning other games.
 
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Well I mean, Sakurai has stated that IS helps pick which Fire Emblem characters get in. They were the ones who suggested Roy and Ike, at the very least. Given that they've had a hand in roster decisions in the past, I could see them pushing for Lucina again.

Honestly, unless an FE6 remake happens during or soon after Smash 5 is developing/developed (which it very well could), I think Roy would go before Lucina.
I like Lucina in Smash; I do not care if she is a clone. People need to stop complaining about clone characters; they do not ruin potential smash characters according to Sakurai.

R.I.P those "OUR BOY" memes. :roymelee::4feroy:
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Honestly, only cuts that feel likely at best are Roy and Corrin among the FE characters. It takes no real time to make Lucina, so there's no point in cutting her. Roy still works fine as DLC, and sells well enough anyway, so him being lower priority makes sense. Corrin is unique, but he also got a lot of hatred towards hir for being a second FE DLC, and was only relevant for one set of games(Fates). It depends how much they care about Fates. For cuts, I'd say Roy, then Corrin are next in line. Then Lucina, Robin, Ike, and Marth. The last 4 have very little chances of being cut at this point.

Movesets matter just as much as characters. Both are one in the same overall. Some characters just represent various versions(which is ever Zelda character bar Young and Toon Link, who have different niches overall, although both are about a Child version, Young Link more encompasses some of the 2D games while Toon shows off the Wind Waker trio(and also uses some costumes from the Four Swords games, namely Dark Link). But in other cases, they're just one person(Mario, for instance), and you can't really have Mario without his key moveset(obviously the Spin is still there, but just not in the same way as before), which also is why many love that Dr. Mario essentially is a remix of Mario's old moveset as well.

It's the same reason why people want "accurate representation" of a character. But it's also the same reason movesets don't severely change in any game either, being updated instead. People are used to the first version introduced, which is why they continue to stay a popular option. It's easier to make a new moveset using a different character, as it pleases most fans.
 

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My ideal Fire Emblem wishes for Smash are obvious:
+Keep everyone we have so far (:4marth::4myfriends::4robinm::4corrinf::4lucina::4feroy:)
+Remove M!Corrin as an option and/or make F!Corrin the new default character
+De-clone or re-tool Lucina. If I were to re-design her, I'd rather her be based on her Great Lord Class in Awakening where she could either use Swords or Lances. In Smash, this would translate to sort of a new "Weapon Swap" move where upon activating, Lucina swaps out her Parallel Falchion for a lance like Geirskogul or Gradivus. (Replaces Counter)
+The Lance has much greater range for Lucina's attack and a bit heavier/stronger than the Parallel Falchion, but the main difference aside from new animations for the lance attacks would be that as a trade-off, have more recovery frames.

If there were to be a newcomer, I'd promote Lyn to playable status, but only if we get more characters from other franchises confirmed first. So probably I'd see a DK newcomer, ARMS character, the Inklings, Isaac, Takamaru in first before I were to put Lyn in the game.
 

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I also stand by my support of Kid Ganondorf. He'd be a metaphor to a kid playing with fire. A lot can be done with that. If I could direct one Smash, I promise you, at least most of you wouldn't be disappointed. I'd do a pretty good job handling the roster and soundtrack. I'm also aware of character relevancy.

Yes. I wouldn't mind Lyn, Skull Kid, Masked Man, Porky or whatever but, I wouldn't put them in the game because I know the risk they would bring.

Some ideas of the things I would do. A new Donkey Kong, Zelda and Animal Crossing rep would be a 100% possibility. I'd also do what I can in my power to add a new Metroid rep.

Front runner themes I would bring to Smash is Bowser Battle from Paper Mario TTYD, Porky Means Business and I'd make Special Smash more specific.
 

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I really never understood how whenever people bring up cutting characters, they immediately go to fire emblem because "it has 6 characters". This line of reason along with "they need to cut characters in order for the ones I want to get in" are possibly the most infuriating arguments I see on SB.
-Fire emblem has 6 characters because of the nature of the franchise. People always refer to franchises with much bigger names like Loz when talking about character counts. The thing is, FE and LoZ are very different series. Each FE game has a whole new cast of characters, so having 6 out of the hundreds that exist makes sense, same thing with pokemon.
-If we are going to go by the popularity logic, how popular is FE? The most popular Nintendo franchise is Mario, followed by Pokemon, followed by LoZ, Followed by Donkey Kong, followed by Kirby ect. By all time sales, fire emblem is #17 out of Nintendo's properties. Here's the thing though, In the last 5 years fire emblem has sold nearly half of its all time sales. Meaning that Fire emblem is trending up in popularity and fast.
-Why would they cut a fire emblem character? They didn't cut Ike from smash 4 and they even brought back Roy. What reason would Sakurai have for cutting Lucina, Corrin or Roy?
-IS will probably do everything in their power to keep as much FE representation in smash as possible, brace yourselves for the inevitable 7th and 8th fire emblem character in smash 5. If we look at how much nintendo is promoting this franchise, it would be weird if they cut a fire emblem character for the next smash especially with the continuous success of fire emblem heroes.

Also, they aren't going to cut any of the flavor of the month pokemon either, just get that in your heads. Lucario is coming back, Ash-Gren as Gren's final smash is going to be the sole representation for gen 7 in the roster, and Mewtwo will strike back so that Sakurai doesn't receive death threats. Also, there isn't going to be any gen 7 pokemon. Gen 8 will give whatever is the most marketable starter or movie pokemon to the roster then dip. It's probably a meme within the smash dev team that they won't include any odd numbered gen pokemon in the roster at this point.
 

PeridotGX

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So here's a good question. A few weeks ago, Nintendo revealed that Odyssey has been purchased by more than half of Nintendo Switch owners and has sold over 5 million copies in just six weeks. A week or so after that, it was revealed that Odyssey, after eight weeks, has already become Japan's best-selling 3D Mario game, beating out the previous owner of that title, 3D Land. Given the success of Odyssey, do you think Sakurai will try to add an unexpected newcomer like Cappy or Pauline just for the sake of having a character who can represent the game, or do you think a new move for Mario and/or a new stage is the most we'll get out of this?
Definitley a stage (New Donk, probably) and a bunch of music. Mario getting a Hat throw special will likely also happen (Not sure if it'll replace side or down -b). Maybe Pauline, but she would draw from more than SMO.

Also, in terms of FE, I think we'll probably get the main character from the Switch game, maybe with the loss of Lucina or Roy.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Words can not describe how triggered I am right now.
They feel a cut may happen.

Cuts have happened for FE since Brawl(the first new game to have FE characters since Brawl). Some just expect it. There's nothing wrong with expecting cuts anyway. It's pretty much inevitable(bar ports only), and even Sakurai is pretty clear that they are going to happen, not that he really likes doing cuts either. He realizes and respects that all characters have fans(which is why he never completely changes a moveset, only giving them updates, to always appeal to the fans. Same reason why he'd rather cut a character than throw a moveset onto another. In the case of Toon Link, which seems like an obvious exception, he's no more of an updated art design than the rest of the Zelda cast, making it a very loose exception to this, so it barely counts).

There's nothing wrong with wanting cuts either. Everybody has their opinion on characters. As long as they aren't rude or unreasonable about it, it's not really an issue to express that feeling.
 

RandomAce

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Also, there isn't going to be any gen 7 pokemon. Gen 8 will give whatever is the most marketable starter or movie pokemon to the roster then dip. It's probably a meme within the smash dev team that they won't include any odd numbered gen pokemon in the roster at this point.
It depends on whether we're getting a Smash 5 or Sm4sh for Switch port. But Gen 8 already? It confuses me a lot that its only been A YEAR that Gen 7 has been out and now everyone is speculating a new generation to be featured given that every generation is usually 3 YEARS long. I expect the switch game to be a massive remaster or something tied in with Gen 7. Gen 8 will most likely come out by 2019 AT LEAST. If it's a Smash 5 we're getting, then a Gen 8 pokemon is obvious, but if it's a port, expect a Gen 7 pokemon since it's fairly new.
 
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kirbstr

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They feel a cut may happen.

Cuts have happened for FE since Brawl(the first new game to have FE characters since Brawl). Some just expect it. There's nothing wrong with expecting cuts anyway. It's pretty much inevitable(bar ports only), and even Sakurai is pretty clear that they are going to happen, not that he really likes doing cuts either. He realizes and respects that all characters have fans(which is why he never completely changes a moveset, only giving them updates, to always appeal to the fans. Same reason why he'd rather cut a character than throw a moveset onto another. In the case of Toon Link, which seems like an obvious exception, he's no more of an updated art design than the rest of the Zelda cast, making it a very loose exception to this, so it barely counts).

There's nothing wrong with wanting cuts either. Everybody has their opinion on characters. As long as they aren't rude or unreasonable about it, it's not really an issue to express that feeling.
No, it was more about the first post after I did my mini rant on cutting FE characters was someone saying a FE character would be cut lol. Also, a FE character hasn't been cut since brawl dude. Only one FE character has ever been cut from the roster, and he was added back.

RandomAce RandomAce Nah, gen 5 lasted 2 years and that is probably the most comparable generation to the current one. Even if it is a sm4sh port, it's coming out no sooner than 2018. The new generation of pokemon is supposed to come out on the switch by fall 2018, so the dates will align perfectly for either a port of sm4sh (which I HIGHLY doubt they will do) or a completely new game. Heck, we could even get a gen 8 movie pokemon if it is a completely new game. That would be a lot cooler than another starter.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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No, it was more about the first post after I did my mini rant on cutting FE characters was someone saying a FE character would be cut lol. Also, a FE character hasn't been cut since brawl dude. Only one FE character has ever been cut from the roster, and he was added back.
That doesn't mean they weren't "cut" in the first place. Coming back means nothing. Cuts absolutely do happen. People look at the base roster even more than later DLC. We were lucky to get DLC beyond Mewtwo. The fact Sakurai put out Mewtwo as a test meant he wasn't absolutely sue DLC would work well with Smash. Heck, nobody knew Roy was coming. People expected Wolf back, with far less expecting Roy or Lucas. Lucas only a bit more due to the old Gematsu leak speaking of Lucas or Ness possibly being DLC.

Base game =/= Later DLC. Any cuts that happen puts them up in the air for DLC with very few exceptions. Mewtwo was announced before both games released, so it was already clear that some cuts can come back. Nobody really expected the exact DLC we got. Corrin came out of nowhere(and many were very annoyed that FE got more DLC characters that any other franchise, which actually did feel unfair. Even Sakurai was aware, and was convinced to do so since Corrin only had one particular chance of getting in. His addition is similar to Roy's, being advertisement in their Smash debut. For that matter, this is why he may get cut too, since his relevance is gone and isn't being pushed nearly as much).

Another thing to remember is there's really nothing suggesting Roy was worked on prior to DLC, so that makes him a full cut as well(coming back later on, again, doesn't change the fact he was given a hard cut for the game), and he was barely worked on for Brawl, much like all the Forbidden 7(Dixie(who had a little work done, but just enough to see her being unable to be programmed correctly), Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, whatever Pra_Mai is, Dr. Mario, and Mewtwo(who had far more work done than the rest)).
 

kirbstr

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That doesn't mean they weren't "cut" in the first place. Coming back means nothing. Cuts absolutely do happen. People look at the base roster even more than later DLC. We were lucky to get DLC beyond Mewtwo. The fact Sakurai put out Mewtwo as a test meant he wasn't absolutely sue DLC would work well with Smash. Heck, nobody knew Roy was coming. People expected Wolf back, with far less expecting Roy or Lucas. Lucas only a bit more due to the old Gematsu leak speaking of Lucas or Ness possibly being DLC.

Base game =/= Later DLC. Any cuts that happen puts them up in the air for DLC with very few exceptions. Mewtwo was announced before both games released, so it was already clear that some cuts can come back. Nobody really expected the exact DLC we got. Corrin came out of nowhere(and many were very annoyed that FE got more DLC characters that any other franchise, which actually did feel unfair. Even Sakurai was aware, and was convinced to do so since Corrin only had one particular chance of getting in. His addition is similar to Roy's, being advertisement in their Smash debut. For that matter, this is why he may get cut too, since his relevance is gone and isn't being pushed nearly as much).

Another thing to remember is there's really nothing suggesting Roy was worked on prior to DLC, so that makes him a full cut as well(coming back later on, again, doesn't change the fact he was given a hard cut for the game), and he was barely worked on for Brawl, much like all the Forbidden 7(Dixie(who had a little work done, but just enough to see her being unable to be programmed correctly), Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, whatever Pra_Mai is, Dr. Mario, and Mewtwo(who had far more work done than the rest)).
Your whole point is that Roy being DLC doesn't change that he wasn't cut when my argument was that you stated "Fire emblem characters have been being cut since brawl" when really only one has ever been cut.

Your second paragraph about Corrin is invalid because that's the same thing that happened with Ike and he was not cut.

On your point about him not being in the base game still counts as a "cut". No, it doesn't. Was Pichu "cut" from Smash 4? Was Young Link? The term "cut" refers to a character not being carried over from the previous game. So no, Roy was not "cut" from sm4sh as there was no expectation or basis for assumption that he would be in the game in the first place.

Don't let my refutations of your arguments distract from the fact that my argument was never about roy coming back, it was that only one character from FE had ever been cut. There is no basis to assume that another will be cut. Ike wasn't cut from Brawl, that in itself is enough evidence.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Your whole point is that Roy being DLC doesn't change that he wasn't cut when my argument was that you stated "Fire emblem characters have been being cut since brawl" when really only one has ever been cut.
Ah, I misread what your point was, then. People don't expect the full FE roster in every game bar DLC was the main point, though.

Your second paragraph about Corrin is invalid because that's the same thing that happened with Ike and he was not cut.
Ike was nowhere near the same situation, so is an invalid comparison in itself. He was continued to be pushed among products even after his games were done. He also was updated for some new games in Smash 4 that he was in. Corrin, if he doesn't get any new games, may be on the cutting block. Ike is too popular and the second biggest FE character of all time. To pretend Corrin is comparable is just being silly. Last minute additions can potentially be cut if there's reasons to do so. Never mind that Corrin only exists(like Roy) as a quick addition to push the latest game. Roy was cut and put as low priority(which is part of why the cut was easy) after his game was irrelevant. To act like Corrin can't possibly be put in the same situation is silly. Unless Fates suddenly continues with another game during Smash 5's development, it'd further serve the team more to add someone just as interesting from the latest game to push that product. Since obviously Smash 5(not referring to a port here) will have cuts anyway due to balance issues when it comes to over 60 characters, some have to go. Roy and Corrin are the only two remotely among the Fire Emblem choices that make any sense to cut. Both are currently irrelevant, neither are easy to remake, and they need more space for newer characters. This is also why Pokemon tends to have cuts since Brawl as well. Mewtwo barely is relevant as is, with small bursts, and couldn't make it into the base game of Smash 4 in the one time he was other than Melee(he wasn't nearly as relevant in 64 as in Melee), and now that its moment is over, it's the most likely cut to the base roster. Which makes sense, as its always been the lowest priority when it came to Pokemon that will generally return due to popularity. Pichu, Squirtle, and Ivysaur, are far more unique. Pichu wasn't that popular, and while it would've been an easy clone in 4, Pokemon already has a huge roster, so throwing it in(especially with Mewtwo gone at the time) would've just made a bigger upset. As for the other two, they depended on Pokemon Trainer to be worth keeping in. They don't have the remote popularity of Charizard or anywhere near the level of it, so of course the cut was easy.

On your point about him not being in the base game still counts as a "cut". No, it doesn't. Was Pichu "cut" from Smash 4? Was Young Link? The term "cut" refers to a character not being carried over from the previous game. So no, Roy was not "cut" from sm4sh as there was no expectation or basis for assumption that he would be in the game in the first place.
Which also means he may not make it to the base game of Smash 5. Which was kind of the point being made. The two DLC happen to also be the least important FE characters at this time, compared to the other 4 who are way more major right now, or have more going for them.

Young Link was updated into Toon Link. No point in mentioning him. Pichu was, as noted above, not very popular and wouldn't even remotely make sense to bring back when there was already 6 Pokemon playable in Brawl. Most characters don't "skip" a game specifically, they're just planned for the other games. Notice how all the DLC vets were planned for Brawl or already in Brawl? Yeah. We also know for a fact that they put all the Brawl date in the 3DS version, including Roy, so maybe he was planned at one point, but cut from the main roster. Either way, they completely revamped him to be a semi-clone, which explains why he couldn't be in the base roster as is. If he was planned for the base roster at any point, he was cut from it to do a lot more work to make him stand out(and had Lucina as the easy clone choice instead, which does somewhat explain why she was made late in the development beyond the costume factor). We don't know much about Smash 4 development, oddly enough.

Don't let my refutations of your arguments distract from the fact that my argument was never about roy coming back, it was that only one character from FE had ever been cut. There is no basis to assume that another will be cut. Ike wasn't cut from Brawl, that in itself is enough evidence.
There is absolutely evidence that not every character has consistently returned from the Smash franchise FE-wise. Roy being cut from the ideal base roster again is beyond believable. Corrin also has issues that Sakurai was aware of, and is aware of the backlash too from having two FE characters as DLC(something that should not have happened in the first place, as it places bias on a series to the eyes of others, despite the fact it wasn't done for anywhere close to that kind of reason, but it won't stop fans' thoughts on that). Of course, I'm not saying that it should've been Wolf that was back, or, say, Pichu. I'm saying that they could've branched out to other franchises for DLC characters. Letting any single one get more than one caused lots of controversy(and I like Roy more than Corrin, despite the fact I'm saying only Corrin should've been chosen for advertisement purposes).
 

kirbstr

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Ike was nowhere near the same situation, so is an invalid comparison in itself. He was continued to be pushed among products even after his games were done. He also was updated for some new games in Smash 4 that he was in. Corrin, if he doesn't get any new games, may be on the cutting block. Ike is too popular and the second biggest FE character of all time. To pretend Corrin is comparable is just being silly. Last minute additions can potentially be cut if there's reasons to do so. Never mind that Corrin only exists(like Roy) as a quick addition to push the latest game. Roy was cut and put as low priority(which is part of why the cut was easy) after his game was irrelevant. To act like Corrin can't possibly be put in the same situation is silly.
While this is true, keep in mind that Corrin's games came out only two years ago was supported by DLC for the first year it came out. He also has the second best fire emblem game(s) under his belt. While Ike was flavor of the month, he evolved into the memorable and iconic character we know him as today mostly because of smash. That was the case with all the fire emblem characters until awakening came out. It really is a toss up I guess, we will have to see how sakurai handles FE characters that aren't defined by their appearance in smash.
Notice how all the DLC vets were planned for Brawl or already in Brawl? Yeah. We also know for a fact that they put all the Brawl date in the 3DS version, including Roy, so maybe he was planned at one point, but cut from the main roster. Either way, they completely revamped him to be a semi-clone, which explains why he couldn't be in the base roster as is. If he was planned for the base roster at any point, he was cut from it to do a lot more work to make him stand out(and had Lucina as the easy clone choice instead, which does somewhat explain why she was made late in the development beyond the costume factor). We don't know much about Smash 4 development, oddly enough.
Gotcha. Huh, I didn't know that. either way he still made it back in and that was most likely due to his popularity from being in melee and the "our boi" memes and such. I don't think that they will cut anyone then add them back as DLC like they did with lucas in smash 4 tho, or at least not a FE character. Lucas made it back in as a fan favorite from brawl, so I doubt that a FE character would have enough popularity to make it back in on their own (unless it was Ike ).
There is absolutely evidence that not every character has consistently returned from the Smash franchise FE-wise. Roy being cut from the ideal base roster again is beyond believable. Corrin also has issues that Sakurai was aware of, and is aware of the backlash too from having two FE characters as DLC(something that should not have happened in the first place, as it places bias on a series to the eyes of others, despite the fact it wasn't done for anywhere close to that kind of reason, but it won't stop fans' thoughts on that). Of course, I'm not saying that it should've been Wolf that was back, or, say, Pichu. I'm saying that they could've branched out to other franchises for DLC characters. Letting any single one get more than one caused lots of controversy(and I like Roy more than Corrin, despite the fact I'm saying only Corrin should've been chosen for advertisement purposes).
Again, Roy was only ever cut once. One cut. Being omitted form the base roster and being cut are separate things. Also, Corrin is, as you alluded to yourself, very familiar to newer fans of Fire Emblem and is a lot better for advertising if he is included in the main game.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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While this is true, keep in mind that Corrin's games came out only two years ago was supported by DLC for the first year it came out. He also has the second best fire emblem game(s) under his belt. While Ike was flavor of the month, he evolved into the memorable and iconic character we know him as today mostly because of smash. That was the case with all the fire emblem characters until awakening came out. It really is a toss up I guess, we will have to see how sakurai handles FE characters that aren't defined by their appearance in smash.
They're still not comparable. One was added as an advertisement. One was not. The only one ever cut was an advertisement. Corrin could go either way, but he also isn't even being pushed as much as Roy is as DLC for various games. The notable point is Roy is DLC so often that they don't need to even add him to base games much, and let him be a great and popular DLC option each time.

Gotcha. Huh, I didn't know that. either way he still made it back in and that was most likely due to his popularity from being in melee and the "our boi" memes and such. I don't think that they will cut anyone then add them back as DLC like they did with lucas in smash 4 tho, or at least not a FE character. Lucas made it back in as a fan favorite from brawl, so I doubt that a FE character would have enough popularity to make it back in on their own (unless it was Ike ).
The memes had nothing to do with it. That said, it's a pretty normal practice of cutting characters from the base roster when there's not enough time and then adding them as DLC. Sakurai already sees this works, so him repeating it isn't really unbelievable. Similar reason I don't think Lucas will see the base roster again unless Mother 3 gets a worldwide release. Roy, as noted, works better as DLC, but it entirely depends if they want to keep him in the base game. We don't know if he was ever intended to be in that in 4. And Roy had enough popularity to "make it back in on his own", so that's not true anyway. Corrin, Robin, and Lucina are probably the closest to the least popular if any, and that's iffy. Corrin was a pretty major base breaker in 4. The rest, not nearly as much. Lucina was only hated on cause "lol I hate clones", enough for Sakurai to say "just accept your free dessert" essentially. Can't blame him, as it's honestly ridiculous to complain about quick additions that took little time. Well, their existence anyway. The fact that Dark Pit had almost zero differences is another story and a pretty big deal(he should've had enough for him and Pit to use different strategies. Even Pichu still had more unique differences, including various stats and not just his gimmick).

Again, Roy was only ever cut once. One cut. Being omitted form the base roster and being cut are separate things. Also, Corrin is, as you alluded to yourself, very familiar to newer fans of Fire Emblem and is a lot better for advertising if he is included in the main game.
Doesn't matter, since you're deliberately ignoring the point. Fire Emblem has consistently not had all previous characters in the base roster. This has a perfectly fair chance of happening again. Things could change. Pokemon is near identical to this, except for Melee. They're in the same boat. It's at this point that the only blatant keeps nowadays are Marth no matter what(with Ike obviously being added to the list) and Pikachu/Jigglypuff(with clearly Lucario and Charizard being added to the list). They were treated very similarly, as the only series outside of Mario to have straight out cuts(I don't count Zelda as all 5 characters were nothing more than straight out updates to the character designs, with moveset overhauls here and there too).
 

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Words can not describe how triggered I am right now.
Presumably less so than when they actually do cut Lucina or Roy.

Maintaining six characters plus getting new ones, especially in a more minor series, especially when those characters are full of late additions, clones, and promotional characters is... not tenable in a series that constantly expands and always receives the newest representation. FE was unable to maintain the three that existed with a roster nearly half of the current one, and, after its most successful title, still was only initially set to receive a single addition.

Uptick or not, this is not indicative of a series that unquestionably earned the characters it has, this is indicative of a series graced with circumstance, serendipitous and extenuating, to a rare extent: whether clones, promotional additions, or Sakurai seemingly seeking out a slot ("popular cut Melee vet") of which only one character really applied.

If you want to argue that FE is more popular now, that is true, but keep in mind the three most popular Nintendo series have all received cuts despite their near-constant promotion. If anything that indicates bigger series have more unstable rosters. If you want to play the sales game, consider there are series that should receive second, third, or fourth characters before FE gets a seventh; that's abundantly evident, and a reason why the sales factor is only a loose metric in and of itself. If you want to compare it to Pokemon and that ever-rotating cast... keep in mind that not only is Pokemon far and away more recognizable and popular (with a greater amount of notable characters)... but that series has received cuts in every new Smash game, barring the initial jump to Melee. Not exactly a solid point in favour of no cuts. And much like IS, GF cares about implementing the new over keeping the old.

So really, keeping all the FE is a nice idealization, but it's really that, idealized. I understand the trepidation people have in anticipating cuts; no one wants to lose characters, but in a series like Smash, where bigger series struggle with self-preservation, a roster that will start pushing around six dozen lest it face a reboot, a b-tier series filled with clones, afterthought additions and promotions, a developer that prioritizes the new over the old, and an ever bloating cast of characters (which has faced cuts before), you're not going to wind up unscathed. So I'd suggest making peace with the idea now.
 
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