Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

It’s an obstacle of SEGA didn’t feel being an Echo Fighter suited Shadow all that great.

When most of the time they themselves make Shadow basically a Sonic skin, I really don't think SEGA would care if he was an Echo of Sonic.

 

[Knight Dude]

Some character's final smashes remain unconfirmed, Meta Knight, Lucario and i think Dark Pit being the ones i remember.
Wolf wasn't also explicitly shown but it's probably similar to Fox and Falco's, just with Star Wolf.

There's a screenshot of Dark Pit using the Staff.

I'm thinking Peach's might get changed, since most of them are to the point, and her's just puts people to sleep.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Anyone see Meta Knight's Final Smash by chance? That's one I want to get changed.

What's really wrong with it? Sure it was made up but Robobot made it canon. What would you suggest as a replacement?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

When most of the time they themselves make Shadow basically a Sonic skin, I really don't think SEGA would care if he was an Echo of Sonic.

Wait, that’s a thing?

I’ve never seen that. Is that in particular games that I haven’t played? Or do you mean literally play like Sonic in other games? That might make more sense.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Some character's final smashes remain unconfirmed, Meta Knight, Lucario and i think Dark Pit being the ones i remember.
Wolf wasn't also explicitly shown but it's probably similar to Fox and Falco's, just with Star Wolf.

Dark Pit still uses his staff as his final smash

Wow...Lyn still has no updated voice clips....

Rip

BLEGH
No offense to the voice actress but that voice does not suit Lyn at ALL. Can't we just re use Warriors or Heroes voice clips or something?

If you're not gonna let me have my girl in Smash, at least let her not sound like she's in her 50s...

If they can reuse voice clips for Shadow, Lyn shouldn’t be so hard to do (even with the game roster and all that being decided early in advance, they could’ve still changed voice clips.

Lani Minella needs to voice at least three different characters. Please Understand.

Glad Pit isn’t one of those characters anymore (don’t get how she voiced so well but not or Lyn)

 

[blazefan519]

Aw man, did I miss the tournament? This is what I get for staying up all night doing irrelevant things. If anyone has a leak to it that'd be great.

 

[Noipoi]

Wait, is there a tournament going on right now?

 

[MainJPW]

Wait, is there a tournament going on right now?

It just ended.

 

[StormC]

What's really wrong with it? Sure it was made up but Robobot made it canon. What would you suggest as a replacement?

Personally I always wanted his Final Smash to be that massive tornado attack from Super Star:

Summoning the Meta-Knights would also be really cool. His current one's just... eh. I dunno. Doesn't do it for me.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Been offline for 3-4 days. I was at 2518, now it's 2577.

Anything happened that caught fire?

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, that’s a thing?

I’ve never seen that. Is that in particular games that I haven’t played? Or do you mean literally play like Sonic in other games? That might make more sense.

Play exactly like Sonic.

Very minor differences usually.

 

[KMDP]

They probably just didn't give great voice direction for Brawl and they've been recycling those clips ever since.

Between Brawl and Other M, it's just evidence that Japanese devs shouldn't be giving voice direction to English actors.
This is obviously assuming that the Brawl VD was done by someone like Sakurai, which I actually doubt.

Alright, time to get the "fighter of the day" calendar thingy and try to find patterns where there is nothing:
View attachment 154814

Alright so, in the month of June, we got 3 weeks, and every week we got 3 fighters of the day per week, got it? got it.
Then July and things change in a curious way, in the first 2 weeks we have 4 fighters, one more than in June, BUT, in the next 2 weeks we got only 2 fighters.
To compensate for the extra characters in the first 2 weeks of July? maybe, maybe... but if that was the case, then it means that there always must be 3 for week, and if there are more, then the next weeks must have less... which it means the average is always 3 for week... and if this continues until December we will have... wait, let me grab a calculator... 26 weeks... 78 fighters!
We have 65 Characters BUT, echoes have their own day but not their own number, so that would be 68 characters BUT, Mii fighters and Pkmn trainer count as 3 but only have one video showing the character so that would be 4 less.
We have 64 characters, if there would be 78 that would mean there are 14 characters left, which totally contradicts with what Sakurai said, so this all was me losing time for fun.
Please continue to follow me in this adventure to see in what moment I am proven wrong in the next episode of... "Zeox have an image of a calendar with red dots!"

If you consider Sakurai's statement to be an anti-hype measure and not a statement of "less characters", then 14 characters is completely normal for a Smash game.

It's how many Newcomers we got for Melee and Smash 4 (Base), after all.

 

[blazefan519]

Been offline for 3-4 days. I was at 2518, now it's 2577.

Anything happened that caught fire?

Uh there was a good bit where we talked about Vergeben added Isabelle to his leaks, then we talked about Loz18. And then I just kinda forget everything else. Mostly just fake screenshot leaks.

 

[KMDP]

Uh there was a good bit where we talked about Vergeben added Isabelle to his leaks, then we talked about Loz18. And then I just kinda forget everything else. Mostly just fake screenshot leaks.

You forgot the part where we had the usual arguments about Isabelle's personality and Shadow's uniqueness.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

Little thing I like is how all characters in a team battle now do their full victory poses again like in the first 3 games. That was something I missed when playing Smash 4~

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

About the Heroes vs Villains thing, something I never see brought up is the URL for the logo.

https://www.smashbros.com/assets_v2/img/top/hero_title_en.png

The page source makes various mentions of "hero" as well. It may very well be a thing which would be really interesting to say the least.

"Hero" is just a web graphical term that means "main image" or "main web banner".

EDIT: "In web design, a hero image is a large web banner image, prominently placed on a web page, generally in the front and center. The hero image is often the first visual element a visitor encounters on the site; it presents an overview of the site's most important content."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_image

 

[blazefan519]

You forgot the part where we had the usual arguments about Isabelle's personality and Shadow's uniqueness.

Oh yeah that was a thing too. And also "New Villager"

 

[Dragoncharystary]

What's really wrong with it? Sure it was made up but Robobot made it canon. What would you suggest as a replacement?

When the Final Smash was made for Brawl, it was specifically made to be one of the worst ones because Meta Knight was made to be one of the best characters. This was said on the Super Smash Bros. Dojo. The Final Smash itself was designed to be LAME.

As for a replacement:

The tornado attack he uses at several points during the boss battle.

Edit: Lol I got the video copy thing screwed up hold on.

Edit 2:

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Alright, time to get the "fighter of the day" calendar thingy and try to find patterns where there is nothing:
View attachment 154814

Alright so, in the month of June, we got 3 weeks, and every week we got 3 fighters of the day per week, got it? got it.
Then July and things change in a curious way, in the first 2 weeks we have 4 fighters, one more than in June, BUT, in the next 2 weeks we got only 2 fighters.
To compensate for the extra characters in the first 2 weeks of July? maybe, maybe... but if that was the case, then it means that there always must be 3 for week, and if there are more, then the next weeks must have less... which it means the average is always 3 for week... and if this continues until December we will have... wait, let me grab a calculator... 26 weeks... 78 fighters!
We have 65 Characters BUT, echoes have their own day but not their own number, so that would be 68 characters BUT, Mii fighters and Pkmn trainer count as 3 but only have one video showing the character so that would be 4 less.
We have 64 characters, if there would be 78 that would mean there are 14 characters left, which totally contradicts with what Sakurai said, so this all was me losing time for fun.
Please continue to follow me in this adventure to see in what moment I am proven wrong in the next episode of... "Zeox have an image of a calendar with red dots!"

Do you hate Mii Fighters enough to forget they were shown off on the 22nd? This week had 3 character reveals not 2.

 

[dezeray112]

Watching the UK invitational

What a tiny audience.

I've watched the livestream of the invitational as well. Whilst there were a couple of beach balls being thrown around in the audience, well done to quiK and Ridley!

 

[SonicMario]

Wait, that’s a thing?

I’ve never seen that. Is that in particular games that I haven’t played? Or do you mean literally play like Sonic in other games? That might make more sense.

Shadow in Forces (His most recent playable role I might add) and his debut Sonic Adventure 2. Both games in gameplay he plays just like Sonic does. SA2 in particular still being his most looked fond upon role in the series even amongst fans that think Shadow has become vastly overrated after SA2.

Him playing just like Sonic may go over better as well because any unique skills he has unless it's mostly from Sonic Battle would refer to more infamous games like the Shadow video game and Sonic 06. Him playing like Sonic might provide more fond memories of SA2 Shadow as bummed Shadow fans would be to have a lack of his unique abilities. It'd be like Daisy where normally the inclusion would be controversial if they came in as unique or even semi-cloned, but turns out to just be a low-effort clone to appease a longtime request.

 

[Deleted member]

Between Brawl and Other M, it's just evidence that Japanese devs shouldn't be giving voice direction to English actors.
This is obviously assuming that the Brawl VD was done by someone like Sakurai, which I actually doubt.

Resident Evil will always be the best example of this. The entire game was recorded with no direction, and the Japanese sound designers just picked the lines that sounded the best to them.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Alright, time to get the "fighter of the day" calendar thingy and try to find patterns where there is nothing:
View attachment 154814

Alright so, in the month of June, we got 3 weeks, and every week we got 3 fighters of the day per week, got it? got it.
Then July and things change in a curious way, in the first 2 weeks we have 4 fighters, one more than in June, BUT, in the next 2 weeks we got only 2 fighters.
To compensate for the extra characters in the first 2 weeks of July? maybe, maybe... but if that was the case, then it means that there always must be 3 for week, and if there are more, then the next weeks must have less... which it means the average is always 3 for week... and if this continues until December we will have... wait, let me grab a calculator... 26 weeks... 78 fighters!
We have 65 Characters BUT, echoes have their own day but not their own number, so that would be 68 characters BUT, Mii fighters and Pkmn trainer count as 3 but only have one video showing the character so that would be 4 less.
We have 64 characters, if there would be 78 that would mean there are 14 characters left, which totally contradicts with what Sakurai said, so this all was me losing time for fun.
Please continue to follow me in this adventure to see in what moment I am proven wrong in the next episode of... "Zeox have an image of a calendar with red dots!"

Or less than 14 fighters. I think we might get 12 fighters; 8 original newcomers and 4 echos. Including the ones that were announced, we have 9 fighters remain.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Been offline for 3-4 days. I was at 2518, now it's 2577.

Anything happened that caught fire?

i will explain

vergeben returned

this time he doubled up simon

and said isabella is a playable character

and i would give you the link but the thread disapeared

next a user by the name of loz18 which got quite of few things correct on smash utlimate said Follow vergeben

and this loz18 thing is this

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Between Brawl and Other M, it's just evidence that Japanese devs shouldn't be giving voice direction to English actors.
This is obviously assuming that the Brawl VD was done by someone like Sakurai, which I actually doubt.

If you consider Sakurai's statement to be an anti-hype measure and not a statement of "less characters", then 14 characters is completely normal for a Smash game.

It's how many Newcomers we got for Melee and Smash 4 (Base), after all.

I, for one, welcome this, as it would exceed my current expectation of 10 newcomers.

That said, it's probably best to blame whoever the ADR for the English dub voices are, in the case of Brawl. Other M was just incompetence across the board besides voices, so it doesn't really count as much.

 

[KMDP]

Resident Evil will always be the best example of this. The entire game was recorded with no direction, and the Japanese sound designers just picked the lines that sounded the best to them.

The title of that video is wrong.

It should be: "But just TAKE a LOOK at THIS!"

Spoiler

 

[Zeox]

Do you hate Mii Fighters enough to forget they were shown off on the 22nd? This week had 3 character reveals not 2.

I rather make people believe that I hate Mii fighters than let them realize that I totally forgot about them.
Is better for people to think you are evil and a hater than a clumsy idiot.

Spoiler

Then the theory of the repetition of some fighters after they are done with every single one of them could be a possibility too

 

[StormC]

Linking all these boss battles just makes me realize how much more interesting Meta Knight's moveset could actually be.

 

[GunBlaze]

I missed the invitational, but I heard Zapdos and Yveltal are in the Poké Balls.

Can someone share a specific link to the invitational archive, if it exists?

 

[DJ3DS]

Hey all, I'm now on the train back from a Nintendo event (London, UK) where Ultimate was playable, so I've had a good few goes of it. I played just under half the cast (and more Ice Climbers than anyone else) and will write up my thoughts on them and the stages I played. Meanwhile, does anyone have any burning questions?

The format was identical to previous demos I think so we didn't have access to hazard toggles etc to play about with.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Linking all these boss battles just makes me realize how much more interesting Meta Knight's moveset could actually be.

Sakurai, modest as he is, doesn't want to make things totally unfair for anybody playing the characters of other series (aside for some Third Parties, most likely because those companies want their characters overpowered). Dedede alone keeps having his FS replaced, never mind the changes done to nerf him.

Now if Kumazaki was directing, he'd probably make MK punchier.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It’s an obstacle of SEGA didn’t feel being an Echo Fighter suited Shadow all that great.

It absolutely adds onto the workload of the entire game itself, as that is an additional character that Sakurai must consistently communicate with the company who owns the character. It’s not just once or twice, it’s all the time.

All of that, for an Echo Fighter?

I do not think that accomplishing the Shadow echo task is going to make the workload for Smash Ultimate any different considering the time it takes to change few moves, animations, and properties. You make it sound as if licensing this specific character for a clone is the most difficult thing, when accomplishing this would not be even close to being more difficult than negotiating with Konami and Square Enix for their characters. At this point of SEGA's relationship with Sakurai (With Sakurai being so close as to encouraging the company to create SEGA Ages), asking for a Shadow echo would almost be as easy as negotiating for a Nintendo character.

The process of Sakurai communicating with SEGA for a faithful Shadow echo moveset is not going to cause a ruckus for development that would cause a Subspace Emissary development crisis. The point I am making here is that you over-exaggerate the difficulty of getting a 3rd party echo fighter, when the actual process would be very far from nightmare enducing for Sakurai in development. Third-party echoes are a real possibility that should not be easily dismissed just because the situation has not been seen in a Smash game before. With the current circumstances and the details explained regarding echo inclusions from Nintendo's E3, it can happen.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I rather make people believe that I hate Mii fighters than let them realize that I totally forgot about them.
Is better for people to think you are evil and a hater than a clumsy idiot.

Spoiler

View attachment 154815
Then the theory of the repetition of some fighters after they are done with every single one of them could be a possibility too

There's still wonky inconsistency with number of character reveals per week though. But as we get closer to running out of "new" things from them demo I am expecting more character reveals per week to make up for it, that 2 week one was probably the exception.

I missed the invitational, but I heard Zapdos and Yveltal are in the Poké Balls.

Can someone share a specific link to the invitational archive, if it exists?

Pointing this out now for everyone, Zapados and Yveltal are still on Prisim Tower and there was at least one match on that stage. I think someone just made a mistake.

 

[StormC]

Sakurai, modest as he is, doesn't want to make things totally unfair for anybody playing the characters of other series. Dedede alone keeps having his FS replaced, never mind the changes done to nerf him.

Now if Kumazaki was directing, he'd probably make MK punchier.

I mean, all the nerfs Meta Knight needed were already applied. But stuff like his multiple projectiles and stage control elements from his boss battles are missing, which would make his moveset stand out from being, well... sword-y.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Linking all these boss battles just makes me realize how much more interesting Meta Knight's moveset could actually be.

Meta Knight's very odd tbh because he doesn't do his downward stab, something he had since Kirby's Adventure and the down B feel pretty out of character, the honourable knight who always gives a sword to make it a fair fight just sneaking behind you and goes "nothin personnel kid" and ignores shields if you have that one custom. Now, to correct this, I say we add Dark Meta Knight as DLC based off of what Meta Knight didn't inherit and his Star Allies moves

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Hmm, really? Some people were saying earlier that he was in the demo build they were playing today but maybe that was false?

It was just a troll from a known player on Twitter claiming they played him and tweeting out a bunch of stuff about how MK supposedly was in Ultimate, MK wasn't in the demo whatsoever.

When the Final Smash was made for Brawl, it was specifically made to be one of the worst ones because Meta Knight was made to be one of the best characters. This was said on the Super Smash Bros. Dojo. The Final Smash itself was designed to be LAME.

As for a replacement:

The tornado attack he uses at several points during the boss battle.

Edit: Lol I got the video copy thing screwed up hold on.

Edit 2:

Brawl Meta Knight's final smash being intentionally bad as a balance measure is just madeup fan stuff, nothing was ever said by Sakurai of that sort nor has Sakurai ever said MK was intentionally OP, and there was no real correlation between competitive viability and final smash effectiveness in Brawl (e.g. Falco had the second best final smash that was nearly as broken as Super Sonic and was top tier, while the top tier Snake and Olimar also had broken final smashes, while the bottom tier Jigglypuff, Link, and Bowser had bad final smashes.)

I think MK's current final smash is fine, but if he were to get a new one I would like the Mach Tornado special he had from Meta Knightmare in Kirby Super Star Ultra.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

It’s an obstacle of SEGA didn’t feel being an Echo Fighter suited Shadow all that great.

It absolutely adds onto the workload of the entire game itself, as that is an additional character that Sakurai must consistently communicate with the company who owns the character. It’s not just once or twice, it’s all the time.

All of that, for an Echo Fighter?

Frankly, I just don’t see why everybody is placing so much stock in 3rd party Echo Fighters. If it happens, great! I’ll take it. I just don’t feel confident that that’s something in the cards.

I don't think SEGA would really care that much, they've been trying to shove shadow into everything lately anyway with forces and the racing game. I don't think they'd particularly care if shadow wasn't perfectly represented, and we know sakurai would want to have him be as close to his canon self as he can with an echo anyway.

And for all we know Shadow ranked crazy high on the ballot in which case a little extra time spent working out the details on how a character that's already a clone would work would be worth it, his edgy, 13 year old fans would go nuts

 

[perfectchaos83]

"Hero" is just a web graphical term that means "main image" or "main web banner".

EDIT: "In web design, a hero image is a large web banner image, prominently placed on a web page, generally in the front and center. The hero image is often the first visual element a visitor encounters on the site; it presents an overview of the site's most important content."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_image

Well, that's something. I looked at the older sites to make sure it wasn't some sort of generic use term and didn't see anything that related. Learn something new everyday.

 

[KMDP]

There's still wonky inconsistency with number of character reveals per week though. But as we get closer to running out of "new" things from them demo I am expecting more character reveals per week to make up for it, that 2 week one was probably the exception.

*wraps head in tinfoil*

What if... there was originally going to be a new character reveal during the week that there ended up being 2 characters covered, but Sakurai decided to hold the character reveal back after they appeared in one too many leaks.

...What? I'm entirely sane.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Well, that's something. I looked at the older sites to make sure it wasn't some sort of generic use term and didn't see anything that related. Learn something new everyday.

Yeah, it's not a super commonly used term. I only knew it because of a previous place of employment, so I understand how it could be confusing.