Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

You put Palutena twice, in both A+ AND D tier

She's a Goddess! She can be in multiple places at once!

The higher tier Palutena is meant to be Rosalina. Lemme just fix that. XD

 

[Will]

This one is based on the secondary numbers used for the Tier Lists on SSBWiki (which I am to understand is the voting average from this Site's Smash Back Room?). Naturally, this leads to heavy bias towards veterans, the older the better.

>Kirby is S Tier

explain your shenanigans

 

[Inawordyes]

So I skipped 50 pages, what's the latest haps? I saw something two pages ago about a credible leaker?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Dark Pit has no reason to be in Smash because of that and can easily be a costume swap. But with echoes, he still stays as a bonus character.

He has a very good reason to be in Smash. "Everyone is here."

I agree Pit's Final Smash should still be the Three Sacred Treasures though. Those are way more iconic. If anything they should have given Pittoo the lightning chariot.

 

[Zinith]

>Kirby is S Tier

explain your shenanigans

Smash 64 Kirby is 2nd

 

[Just a random scrub]

I'd be kind of sad if I lost Electroshock Arm jank just because Pit and Dark Pit could have the same Final Smash now.

And everyone is here

Yeah man, let me keep my disgusting Side B kills.

 

[KMDP]

>Kirby is S Tier

explain your shenanigans

Kirby is 2nd Place in Smash 64 (specifically, he has a 2.18 voting average), this places him above everyone not named Meta Knight, Pikachu, Fox or Bayonetta.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Did you read the post that I linked? You don't have to since I'm not your mom but I mention that there.

And it's actually Shadow Eagle.

That's Shadow Rocket. Shadow Eagle is his Aim Attack. I play the game near daily. A lot mix that up. Sonic Rocket and Shadow Rocket are Air Attacks. Sonic Eagle and Shadow Eagle are Aim Attacks. Sonic's Down Air is based upon the Air Attack, not the Aim Attack. Very different moves.

I absolutely agree that he can work as an echo and it makes sense for him to, Lucina fights nothing like Marth but is an echo etc. I'm simply arguing against the notion that it makes sense for Shadow to be an echo just because he's a clone in some platformers when other characters have been Sonic clones before. And as far as the moveset itself goes outside Sonic's specials, those moves all originate from a specific fighting game and are all moves that Shadow hasn't performed. I see your point, but I just hate the idea of a Shadow echo LOL. I don't want him, but if he has to be there I'd rather a semi-clone, save him for DLC even. Chaos Powers would be so cool. Even in the comics, he's always using his chaos powers.

Spoiler

Can't be Shadow without this.

He can. He plays the same in the games, so Sega not having an issue with him being an echo isn't a problem either. That's the point being made. It was an argument created that Sega somehow would not be okay with Shadow being a clone again that started this whole thing in the first place. That's just blatantly wrong or at least unfounded at this point.

That's still consistent, is it not? Those karate chops are from some of the few games where we get to see the characters fight using actual fisticuffs and not just curling into a ball and using projectiles in fights. And what about those roundhouse kicks? Echo Shadow means we don't get to see his speciality trademark, tried and true roundhouse kicks.

(ew 06)

(ew Forces)

I mean, if he weren't an echo these could work as his Forward and Up smashes since that's basically what these moves are in Battle.

That reminds me about Shadow's run animation, don't Daisy, Dark Pit and Lucina have the same runnig animations as there counterparts? Would Shadow still be considered an echo if his is different?

He'd probably have the same running animation, yeah. I get your point. I prefer non-Echo Shadow too. It's just the arguments that he can't be one don't make sense, that's all. It could go either way.

An Echo may be chosen simply because Sakurai doesn't want to give a guest series too much special treatment. Shadow would obviously be treated as a Sonic character instead of representing his own series, and unlike, say, the Rabbids, isn't basically detatched enough from his respective origin. Yoshi is more detached than Shadow, honestly, and it's by very little. We already know Sakurai views 3rd party fighters as guests. He already has explained how he cares about "overrepresentation" before. It's a real thing he acknowledges. He may only keep a 3rd party franchise to 1 character. He might be okay with an echo because it doesn't give enough "special treatment" due to little time spent on it. Just a theory, though to be honest, while I could see Shadow as an Echo or any kind of clone variant, he seems unlikely to get in due to Sakurai's own views on franchise representation. So who knows.

 

[Will]

Kirby is 2nd Place in Smash 64 (specifically, he has a 2.18 voting average), this places him above everyone not named Meta Knight, Pikachu, Fox or Bayonetta.

I never saw you mention the characters are placed at their best rating.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If daisy has a different idle I don't see why shadow can't have a different running animation

Shadow would have to copy Sonic's mobility attributes, however, or else he won't qualify for the Echo Fighter status.

 

[KMDP]

I never saw you mention the characters are placed at their best rating.

I thought that was a given and not worth mentioning (why would I take anything but their best rating? )

 

[SuperSceptile15]

https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/92kaqv/vergeben_has_spoken_again/e36nnbm/?context=1

Vergeben is having a meltdown on Reddit. He is upset that other leaks get more attention.

From Reddit:

"I get bombarded by the Smash community regularly. I figured this would be a good way to get people off my back and also point them in the right direction. It's a double edge sword tho because it's only going to make fake leaks that want to be taken seriously to slot both of them in and go wild with filling in the blanks. But whatever. The Smash fanbase loves debating over what's real and what is fake. You people give clearly bull**** leaks too much attention as is. I'm at least pointing you in the right direction since you've even given lists lacking Simon the time of day. This was my way to tell people to stop doing that and considering clearly bull**** leaks."

Does this sound like a credible person? More like ramblings of a salty has-been!

 

[Will]

https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/92kaqv/vergeben_has_spoken_again/e36nnbm/?context=1

Vergeben is having a meltdown on Reddit. He is upset that other leaks get more attention.

From Reddit:

"I get bombarded by the Smash community regularly. I figured this would be a good way to get people off my back and also point them in the right direction. It's a double edge sword tho because it's only going to make fake leaks that want to be taken seriously to slot both of them in and go wild with filling in the blanks. But whatever. The Smash fanbase loves debating over what's real and what is fake. You people give clearly bull**** leaks too much attention as is. I'm at least pointing you in the right direction since you've even given lists lacking Simon the time of day. This was my way to tell people to stop doing that and considering clearly bull**** leaks."

Does this sound like a credible person? More like ramblings of a salty has-been!

Is this a copypasta?
I've seen this **** everywhere word for word within the span of 5 minutes

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

He has a very good reason to be in Smash. "Everyone is here."

I agree Pit's Final Smash should still be the Three Sacred Treasures though. Those are way more iconic. If anything they should have given Pittoo the lightning chariot.

Pit: You know, I didn't need my Final Smash to be changed, since the Three Treasures can still work.
Palutena: Oh ho ho ho no, the Lightning Chariot is faster and more efficient!
Pit: ...For Ultimate.
Palutena: Yes!
Pit: Yes, you give me the Lightning Chariot, despite the fact that it obviously belongs to Pittoo.
Palutena: Eh...you know…one thing I should...excuse me for one second. *goes to Skyworld*

In any case, if the Guidances are still around, they better have an explanation for these shenanigans beyond "Uprising isn't recent anymore, nobody will care XD".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/92kaqv/vergeben_has_spoken_again/e36nnbm/?context=1

Vergeben is having a meltdown on Reddit. He is upset that other leaks get more attention.

From Reddit:

"I get bombarded by the Smash community regularly. I figured this would be a good way to get people off my back and also point them in the right direction. It's a double edge sword tho because it's only going to make fake leaks that want to be taken seriously to slot both of them in and go wild with filling in the blanks. But whatever. The Smash fanbase loves debating over what's real and what is fake. You people give clearly bull**** leaks too much attention as is. I'm at least pointing you in the right direction since you've even given lists lacking Simon the time of day. This was my way to tell people to stop doing that and considering clearly bull**** leaks."

Does this sound like a credible person? More like ramblings of a salty has-been!

Him being mad people would believe fake leakers over his "apparently" real leaks has nothing to do with credibility. Honest people have anger issues too.

This means nothing and is kind of a poor reason to call him uncredible.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/92kaqv/vergeben_has_spoken_again/e36nnbm/?context=1

Vergeben is having a meltdown on Reddit. He is upset that other leaks get more attention.

From Reddit:

"I get bombarded by the Smash community regularly. I figured this would be a good way to get people off my back and also point them in the right direction. It's a double edge sword tho because it's only going to make fake leaks that want to be taken seriously to slot both of them in and go wild with filling in the blanks. But whatever. The Smash fanbase loves debating over what's real and what is fake. You people give clearly bull**** leaks too much attention as is. I'm at least pointing you in the right direction since you've even given lists lacking Simon the time of day. This was my way to tell people to stop doing that and considering clearly bull**** leaks."

Does this sound like a credible person? More like ramblings of a salty has-been!

I mean when the loz guy who's been credible is saying verg might be credible then he might not necessarily be a has-been. He will be once the game is out though because nobody really remembers big leakers post release

 

[KMDP]

I'm at least pointing you in the right direction since you've even given lists lacking Simon the time of day.

EDIT: never mind, saw a "never even" where there wasn't one. Go figure, I'm tired.

 

[Pyra]

Vergeybergy is angry

Does this sound like a credible person? More like ramblings of a salty has-been!

That... doesn't follow, logically.
Mad =/= Liar

 

[MainJPW]

That's Shadow Rocket. Shadow Eagle is his Aim Attack. I play the game near daily. A lot mix that up. Sonic Rocket and Shadow Rocket are Air Attacks. Sonic Eagle and Shadow Eagle are Aim Attacks. Sonic's Down Air is based upon the Air Attack, not the Aim Attack. Very different moves.

****. The cards make them look like the same move.

Sonic's Air Pursuit and Air Attacks are at least represented with different sprites.

He can.

I didn't mean that literally.

 

[KMDP]

Vergeben's rant does sound an awful lot like "WHY AREN'T YOU GUYS LISTENING TO MY OBVIOUSLY REAL LEAK!?"

Not understanding, of course, that... you know... we aren't beholden to his word, and don't have to believe a thing he says.

 

[blazefan519]

https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/92kaqv/vergeben_has_spoken_again/e36nnbm/?context=1

Vergeben is having a meltdown on Reddit. He is upset that other leaks get more attention.

From Reddit:

"I get bombarded by the Smash community regularly. I figured this would be a good way to get people off my back and also point them in the right direction. It's a double edge sword tho because it's only going to make fake leaks that want to be taken seriously to slot both of them in and go wild with filling in the blanks. But whatever. The Smash fanbase loves debating over what's real and what is fake. You people give clearly bull**** leaks too much attention as is. I'm at least pointing you in the right direction since you've even given lists lacking Simon the time of day. This was my way to tell people to stop doing that and considering clearly bull**** leaks."

Does this sound like a credible person? More like ramblings of a salty has-been!

As much as I am a skeptic on his leak, him being mad doesn't make him any less credible. Obnoxious? Yes. Liar? No.

 

[P.Kat]

Geez, finally made to the (somewhat current page)

Hey everyone, brand-new here. Been stalking the boards for a few weeks since Ultimate's reveal, and figured I may as well actually interact with the people just as excited for the game as me. I see leak season is getting tense, and having spent a good time looking at a good number of the many leaks being discussed, I guess I'll weigh in on how I feel.

loz18- I 99% trust whatever he says. As much information as he had before the official reveal, he definitely is on the inside in some capacity. Very hopeful for the alleged August direct showcasing new modes, if that falls through I'll begin to question my faith pretty heavily.

Vergeben- Tough 50/50 split on believability. Snake, Ice Climbers, and Ridley were fan-wanted requests, no matter how you slice it, but what he said was right in the end. Time will tell. loz18's support of him brings it to a 60/40 in favor of believing him, though.

"Okami" leak- As much as I want Amaterasu, and even just setting aside the use of 'Okami' as the character name, it just feels off. Out of 8 unique newcomers, 4 of them being 3rd-party sounds a little heavy, and there's not a single 'modern' Nintendo character among them- every Smash has included relevant characters, whether it be Ike and Lucario in Brawl, Greninja and Awakening characters in Smash 4, or even just Roy in Melee, every Smash at least tries to keep up with being a reflection of what's 'hip' in Nintendo at the time of release. Plus, Hilda and Dry Bowser feel fishy as echoes (I can totally buy the other 4 listed)- there's no particular desire for Hilda, just adding her for the sake of having a Zelda character feels tacky compared to how much people have actually wanted Daisy, and Dry Bowser doesn't make sense from the perspective of him being the same character as Bowser, not an entirely separate but similar character like all the other Echoes. The classic-like mode to obtain characters feels in line with loz18's leak, but otherwise, this all feels too fishy.

Personally, the leak I have the most 'faith' in is the riddle leak that cited King K. Rool as 'pic related' with the bloodshot eye. I can't quite decipher some of the ATs, or settle completely on the 'Anime', 'House', 'Science', or 'Cards' characters, but it feels like the one addressing the most possible fan demands as well as keeping up with 'modern' Nintendo. A grand total of 17 newcomers is definitely out of line for 'don't expect too many new characters', but as said before, this game has the longest development time of any Smash, and Sakurai has said the same for literally every game since Brawl.

Whatever turns out to be true, the game is already a dream come true for me. Ridley has been my most wanted since Brawl, and any more characters are just icing on top.

Welcome

 

[Zinith]

I swear, Vergeben topics are the video game equivalent to a high-profile court case.

 

[UltimateWario]

>not visiting regularly for a while
>lost interest because pages and pages of shadow the ****ing hedgehog discussion
>come back after like a week
>still talking about shadow

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

****. The cards make them look like the same move.

Sonic's Air Pursuit and Air Attacks at least have different sprite animations.

Don't feel bad, it's a common mistake to begin with. The game is vastly underplayed, so it's really easy to make that error. That, and Sonic shoots at a different angle in Smash itself, so while it's clearly based upon it, it's possible it could have another origin. Though to be fair, Sonic Unleashed came out after Brawl, which has a similar move to begin with. And appears to be more similar to the Smash move. Kind of weird. One theory is that the move was known during Unleashed development and added into Smash instead.

Also, if you look at the cards, they have slightly different sprites. The right foot is at a slightly different angle. Like by a few pixels. Still too easy to confuse. It's one of those cases where you need to play the game to remember which is which. Details, heh.

I didn't mean that literally.

Nah, I get ya.

Though I did mention about why I think Shadow is more likely to be an Echo than a more unique fighter. But regardless, it could go either way, and it would in the end still represent him just fine due to his actual games. I honestly want a semi-clone(akin to Jigglypuff) with some similar moves, but a lot of chaos abilities and some of his weapons. The Gatling Gun is sooooooooo good. >.>

 

[Idon]

>not visiting regularly for a while
>lost interest because pages of shadow the ****ing hedgehog discussion
>come back after like a week
>still talking about shadow

It's cyclical.
Every week discussion topics loop around on themselves.
Time in Smashboards is convoluted, posters drifting in and out....

 

[Deleted member]

I swear, Vergeben topics are the video game equivalent to a high-profile court case.

Nah, that was ESRB Leak discussion, just with the worst prosecutors imaginable.

 

[KMDP]

>not visiting regularly for a while
>lost interest because pages and pages of shadow the ****ing hedgehog discussion
>come back after like a week
>still talking about shadow

We tried to stop, but the King of the Potato People won't let us...
(meaningless internet points to anyone who gets the reference)

 

[Iridium]

Sometimes, I feel like the only person who wants to see customs come back. I want to see what the DLC characters would get, and I want to see cubed Remote Bombs for Link.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Nah, that was ESRB Leak discussion, just with the worst prosecutors imaginable.

It's funny to me you say that because a 'debunking' of the ESRB leak is what made me hear Ace Attorney's Cornered theme for the first time

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Verge's a butt.

I mean it doesn't make me want to believe him when he rants about people giving attention to other leaks and not his and only his.

But ''ME ME ME MEEEEEE!" doesn't mean that he isn't really telling the truth either.

It just means he's an egomaniac butthole.

 

[Pyra]

the worst prosecutors imaginable.

Literally 98% of people posting in whatever the current Discussion Thread is

i can see it now
they start talking about the next biggest leak, with potential to be real. a few people scrutinize the leak and genuinely put together evidence. and then it gets drowned out by the waves of "WE TALK ABOUT THE SAME STUFF EVERY DAY AND I MUST ANNOUNCE MY EXISTENTIAL DREAD TO EVERYONE" replies

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sometimes, I feel like the only person who wants to see customs come back. I want to see what the DLC characters would get, and I want to see cubed Remote Bombs for Link.

I loved customs. I still do. I feel they make the game more fun. The equipment too. Just make custom moves easier to get. Equipment isn't the same issue, though. That works better as RNG because it's more interesting. You get equipment that may or may not be better to use due to their stats but have unique abilities. This is fun and interesting because it requires more thought. Terrible for tournaments, of course, but great for casual play.

Custom moves were just a pain in the ass to unlock.

 

[StormC]

Me waiting for that August Direct announcement so we can finally move forward with Smash speculation:

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I swear, Vergeben topics are the video game equivalent to a high-profile court case.

OBJECTION!

-insert bunch of gifs of Phoenix and Miles Edgeworth going back and forth about how the ESRB leak was hell and OBJECTION, Phoenix, and Miles got super super super super old really quick-

 

[John Dylan Smith]

Geez, finally made to the (somewhat current page)

Welcome

I also do hope that The Alleged August Direct gives us at least one or two newcomers to also tide us over for the month of August (It's possible that might happen since loz18 doesn't know about any newcomers like he did with his E3 Leak)!

 

[RandomAce]

This strikes me as odd tbh.

I’m unsure of previous leakers ever backlashing like this. I know Gematsu sort of did this, but he was reasonable and stated the reason for his incorrect reveal “this is when Shulk was supposed to be revealed” was because Sakurai usually changes when characters get revealed, and was angry. But most just didn’t say anything.

Verge however is once again doing his “almighty attitude” by saying that he is putting people on the “right path” and staying away from “fame leaks” that don’t mention Simon.

It seems he’s aiming at loz18, because people began realizing that he was more credible than Verge by having more information correct about E3 before the initial showing and he didn’t mention Simon. Due to this, loz18 is getting a lot more popular and with him recently leaking out more information of a potential Smash info reveal in August he started getting more traction, and is removing Verge from his pedestal.

It really becoming more apparent he just wants attention. And it’s sad, I’m really close to fuming at him on reddit right now, I swear, and I don’t want him to leak anymore.

 

[blazefan519]

Verge's a butt.

I mean it doesn't make me want to believe him when he rants about people giving attention to other leaks and not his and only his.

But ''ME ME ME MEEEEEE!" doesn't mean that he isn't really either.

It just means he's an egomaniac butthole.

A lot of leakers are like that, mainly doing it for fame and so that people put them on a high pedastal.

This strikes me as odd tbh.

I’m unsure of previous leakers ever backlashing like this. I know Gematsu sort of did this, but he was reasonable and stated the reason for his incorrect reveal “this is when Shulk was supposed to be revealed” was because Sakurai usually changes when characters get revealed, and was angry. But most just didn’t say anything.

Verge however is once again doing his “almighty attitude” by saying that he is putting people on the “right path” and staying away from “fame leaks” that don’t mention Simon.

It seems he’s aiming at loz18, because people began realizing that he was more credible than Verge by having more information correct about E3 before the initial showing and he didn’t mention Simon. Due to this, loz18 is getting a lot more popular and with him recently leaking out more information of a potential Smash info reveal in August he started getting more traction, and is removing Verge from his pedestal.

It really becoming more apparent he just wants attention. And it’s sad, I’m really close to fuming at him on reddit right now, I swear, and I don’t want him to leak anymore.

It's clear he wants all the attention on him but I find it funny that if he's going after Loz he'd be attacking the person who backed up his credibility. But he'll without a doubt keep doing what he's doing as that's the case with majority of the leaker community. It's unfortunate for those who'd rather not let that information be known to them but some people just enjoy doing that kind of thing regardless.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This strikes me as odd tbh.

I’m unsure of previous leakers ever backlashing like this. I know Gematsu sort of did this, but he was reasonable and stated the reason for his incorrect reveal “this is when Shulk was supposed to be revealed” was because Sakurai usually changes when characters get revealed, and was angry. But most just didn’t say anything.

Verge however is once again doing his “almighty attitude” by saying that he is putting people on the “right path” and staying away from “fame leaks” that don’t mention Simon.

It seems he’s aiming at loz18, because people began realizing that he was more credible than Verge by having more information correct about E3 before the initial showing and he didn’t mention Simon. Loz18 is getting a lot more popular because he recently leaked out more information of a potential Smash info reveal in August that started gaining traction.

It really becoming more apparent he just wants attention. And it’s sad, I’m really close to fuming at him on reddit right now, I swear, and I don’t want him to leak anymore.

Nah, Gematsu leak didn't backlash, Sal Romano went "That's what my source told me and he hasn't contacted me since"

 

[ned_ballad]

the day or so after the next Smash reveal is going to be absolute chaos of people combing through months worth of 4chan posts and hyping up any that get the one new character revealed