Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[zeldasmash]

Hey guys, I've got a """""""""'leak"""""""""" of the Smash Ultimate tier list.
Here it is:
View attachment 154761

Man even in joke lists, Ganondorf is still bottom tier...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

And then Yoshi's is just a copy of Ridley's with him in Super Dragon form and throwing the enemy at Bowser's castle or something.

Sounds kinda like a cinematic Mario Finisher in a fan fighting game. Kicks them into a SMW castle and then hits the dynamite plunger and blows them both up

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I still think Peach and Daisy can have the same Final Smash. Just a few changes needed.

1) Make the music that plays a sped-up version of Daisy's theme from Super Mario Land (like how Peach's music is a Sped-up Cloud World theme from SMB3)
2) Inflict the enemy fighters with the Flower status, while also putting them to sleep, instead of generating peaches.

Done.

I don't think daisy should dance like peach tho, that's way too graceful to fit her imo.

 

[Zinith]

I'd KILL for a top tier Dedede

I think he is in Brawl (or maybe it's because top tier in Brawl is like only 2 characters)

Anyways, that tier list puts my boi close to the middle, which is eh...

 

[Idon]

I don't think daisy should dance like peach tho, that's way too graceful to fit her imo.

Daisy should totally get that crystal punch from Mario Strikers.

 

[Pyra]

"They are probably the same as before"

"probably the same as before"

"same as before"

"before"

boi

you know what i meant
i forgot to mention in Yink's case "same as link's old smash CAUSE THAT'S JUST EASY LOL"

lame

(Will it be? Probably. But that's boring. You can expect lame things and still speculate generally better outcomes)
I'll be here to celebrate when I'm right

And when I'm wrong tbh

Disclaimer: no i'm not actually that dedicated to this idea, i'm just messing around, stop taking me seriously lol

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I don't think daisy should dance like peach tho, that's way too graceful to fit her imo.

I know it's not what you meant, but you gave em the image of Daisy throwing up the horns and headbanging.

 

[Zinith]

boi

you know what i meant
i forgot to mention in Yink's case "same as link's old smash CAUSE THAT'S JUST EASY LOL"

lame

(Will it be? Probably. But that's boring. You can expect lame things and still speculate generally better outcomes)
I'll be here to celebrate when I'm right

And when I'm wrong tbh

You want Fierce Deity YL, don't ya...

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I think he is in Brawl (or maybe it's because top tier in Brawl is like only 2 characters)

Anyways, that tier list puts my boi close to the middle, which is eh...

Dedede was high tier in Brawl, true, but that was really only because of his ability to abuse chaingrabs.

Plus that Dedede has no Gordo Throw or spiking down aerial so no dice.

 

[Will]

i love these so much

Daisy should totally get that crystal punch from Mario Strikers.

I want Peach to have a new final smash based off of her power of menstrual cycles emotions from Super Princess Peach.

 

[Pakky]

So, okay so what's the verdict on Vegetable Beef stew's leak cred?

I'll give him that Jump game leak, but I've become iffy due to his attitude.

 

[Pyra]

You want Fierce Deity YL, don't ya...

No, as much as I like MM over OoT, I don't expect much, and even if I had something from that game I wish was his final smash, I'd just want the moon to crash down.
I know he can't actually do that, so it wouldn't happen haha, but hey

I know Yoshi basically must get a new one because his old FS was a transformation.

 

[Zinith]

i love these so much



I want Peach to have a new final smash based off of her power of menstrual cycles emotions from Super Princess Peach.

Where'd those come from? And is there ones for every character?

 

[KMDP]

boi

you know what i meant
i forgot to mention in Yink's case "same as link's old smash CAUSE THAT'S JUST EASY LOL"

lame

(Will it be? Probably. But that's boring. You can expect lame things and still speculate generally better outcomes)
I'll be here to celebrate when I'm right

And when I'm wrong tbh

Yeah, I knew what you meant.
The Young Links are... links... (har har) to other pages. I was making a joke.

I think he is in Brawl (or maybe it's because top tier in Brawl is like only 2 characters)

Anyways, that tier list puts my boi close to the middle, which is eh...

Speaking of tier lists and YA BOI Yoshi. I found a way to make a mock tier list that has him high tier (well, 14th Place).

 

[Just a random scrub]

And then Yoshi's is just a copy of Ridley's with him in Super Dragon form and throwing the enemy at Bowser's castle or something.

That wouldn't disappoint me....

(Also, that reminds me of Mario's Castle Calamity for some reason)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Hey guys, I've got a """""""""'leak"""""""""" of the Smash Ultimate tier list.
Here it is:
View attachment 154761
This is my favorite type of "Chromatic Scale".

It's on like Donkey Kong.

 

[Pyra]

Yeah, I knew what you meant.
The Young Links are... links... (har har) to other pages. I was making a joke.

I apologize for not clicking on those and realizing you're a master of comedy

(i laughed pretty loudly when i went back to click them hahahaa)

 

[Will]

I know Yoshi basically must get a new one because his old FS was a transformation.

I think it'll be the giant egg from the Yoshi's Island games (or New Island in all of its mediocrity). Basically just aim and fire a giant egg, easy peasy.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it'll be the giant egg from the Yoshi's Island games (or New Island in all of its mediocrity). Basically just aim and fire a giant egg, easy peasy.

If we're taking from Yoshi's New Island, Yoshi's Final Smash should be forcing his opponent to listen to The Yoshi Clan.

 

[MainJPW]

One mistake you're making here; Sonic's Down Air is specifically Shadow Rocket from Sonic Battle. In fact, it's his only move that's from a modern era game.

Did you read the post that I linked? You don't have to since I'm not your mom but I mention that there.

And it's actually Shadow Eagle.

Homing Attack kind of counts, but only because it's based upon the Adventure series up till 4, and Unleashed and beyond in Ultimate(where it's more lock-on compared to a bit more automated like in the Dreamcast saga itself). But that isn't the point.

Shadow plays the same as Sonic in a lot of those games because he was always a clone of Sonic to begin with design-wise. He slightly branches out in a few games(including Black Knight, and thank you for the correction on that), with only Sonic Battle being a game where he's super different at all. Just cause a lot of games have similar options for playable characters doesn't make it any less valid that Shadow plays a lot like Sonic anyway. It's a design choice to begin with. They still chose to do that despite this. It's still a part of how he is in those games. That said, Chaos Control could be related to his Final Smash(with his teleport spam as seen during Shadow The Hedgehog's intro) and it'd still work to make him as an Echo. This information changes little of the idea he could potentially be an Echo and still fit well into the game.

The issue is that Shadow can absolutely punch, kick, etc. None of those moves are unreasonable for him to do. Yes, they might look silly, but that's not much relevant for an Echo. It's not how it works. Nobody is saying he can't do a lot of that stuff. They could just add Chaos aesthetics to a few moves to make it work. He only uses karate chops in a few games, being Battle, Shadow, and 06. He punches otherwise when he fights, because he's perfectly able to do so(see: Sonic X, during the Adventure 2 saga. The series even loosely adapted Shadow's own game via the Metarex saga, which had a similar plot with Cosmo essentially replacing Shadow as the "main" character of it). Just cause Shadow can do all that doesn't mean it will be the only choice. I'm for a clone/semi-clone myself, but I already accepted long ago that being an Echo works beyond fine for him. Honestly, the only sucky thing would be having the same Final Smash anyway, as he has some much cooler abilities/weapons that could work(like the Orbital Laser). Regardless, I'd love him to be more unique. But him being unique may not happen. It's perfectly reasonable to accept the idea he could be an Echo due to how he is in his home series.

I'd be more worried if we start getting ideas for Echoes from an unrelated series. Just any clone like that(strict clone, not one who had a bit of help for their base model. So none like Jigglypuff, but more like how Ganondorf is. Jigglypuff is a pretty good example of a semi-clone, but it tends to be ignored due to Ganondorf feeling wrong to some people).

I absolutely agree that he can work as an echo and it makes sense for him to, Lucina fights nothing like Marth but is an echo etc. I'm simply arguing against the notion that it makes sense for Shadow to be an echo just because he's a clone in some platformers when other characters have been Sonic clones before. And as far as the moveset itself goes outside Sonic's specials, those moves all originate from a specific fighting game and are all moves that Shadow hasn't performed. I see your point, but I just hate the idea of a Shadow echo LOL. I don't want him, but if he has to be there I'd rather a semi-clone, save him for DLC even. Chaos Powers would be so cool. Even in the comics, he's always using his chaos powers.

Spoiler

Can't be Shadow without this.

He only uses karate chops in a few games, being Battle, Shadow, and 06.

That's still consistent, is it not? Those karate chops are from some of the few games where we get to see the characters fight using actual fisticuffs and not just curling into a ball and using projectiles in fights. And what about those roundhouse kicks? Echo Shadow means we don't get to see his speciality trademark, tried and true roundhouse kicks.

(ew 06)

(ew Forces)

Won't work on the Forward Smash, though.

I mean, if he weren't an echo these could work as his Forward and Up smashes since that's basically what these moves are in Battle.

One move Sonic uses that I have a small niggling issue with Shadow using is the same one I cite for why Tails can't be a Sonic Echo, the up throw. In it, Sonic throws the opponent overhead and flares up his spikes to spear them, but Shadow's spikes curve the other way. It's ultimately a minor thing, but something people should keep in mind from a animation/rigging perspective when talking about Echo Shadow.

It's just one more (admittedly minor) hurdle.

That reminds me about Shadow's run animation, don't Daisy, Dark Pit and Lucina have the same runnig animations as there counterparts? Would Shadow still be considered an echo if his is different?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Somewhat related but Mario enemies being on the Super Dragon trophy in Brawl and Smash 4 was always kinda weird to me, considering we couldn't use Final Smashs in SSE or Smash Run.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Where'd those come from? And is there ones for every character?

Warioware Gold's amiibo functionality has Wario's drawings of the characters. No third party or Pokemon characters but every other amiibo's there

 

[Just a random scrub]

That reminds me about Shadow's run animation, don't Daisy, Dark Pit and Lucina have the same runnig animations as there counterparts? Would Shadow still be considered an echo if his is different?

Well, while the echos we've seen thus far share nigh-identical animations, there are a few minor alterations that have no real effect on the actual move (Lucina has a much more exagrerated Neutral B animation, for instance), so I think Shadow could still qualify as an echo with a different run animation.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Somewhat related but Mario enemies being on the Super Dragon trophy in Brawl and Smash 4 was always kinda weird to me, considering we couldn't use Final Smashs in SSE or Smash Run.

Yeah, you'd figure he'd torch Bowser or Wario or something.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

A guide to creating a Smash Bros. leak

It's simple, really. In this guide, I will be teaching you how to create a Smash leak that will have Reddit [SmashBoards] in a frenzy.

1. Say something painfully obvious about Ultimate before it's directly confirmed so people will think you're credible.
   -This was easier to do before E3, as all you had to do was say that the Ice Climbers were coming back. Now you must be a bit more creative.
2. "Me nan works at Bandai-Namco".
   -Who cares if the development of Ultimate was so secretive that much of Nintendo didn't even know it was being made? Just say you have an insider source and your credibility will increase by seven billion points.
3. Insert any popular character into the leak.
   Just say King K. Rool will be in and you'll be all over Reddit, man.
4. Control+c and control+v are your friends.
   Just copy paste anything whatever the **** Vergeben says.

Congratulations! You are now an expert in the field. Enjoy being featured on Zent's Youtube channel, you are guaranteed to be there.

From https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/92lnvp/a_guide_to_creating_a_smash_bros_leak/

Guys, so my mother's sister's wife's dog is Sakurai's cat, and he told me that K. Rool is definitely in Smash Ultimate. Also Goku, Shrek, and Vanna White from Wheel of Fortune (her Final Smash is that she splits the screen into tiles and then flips each to get a letter). Simon and Isabelle are also in as Vergeben said, but he forgot to mention that they're echoes - Simon is a Wario echo and Isabelle is an echo of Bayonetta.

Geno.

Discuss.

...in what sense?

Do I think he has a chance? Yes - Sakurai seems to like him, and there's a huge fanbase for him. I could easily see him being in.
Do I like his design? Eh...'possessed puppet' is creepy to me, but I prefer Skull Kid as a puppet. Otherwise, I don't really have any strong feeling toward him designwise.
Do I want him? Not particularly. No offense to his fans, but I have no connection to SMRPG at all. Most Mario series characters I know from the Kart/Party games so I can see their personality, and Geno's not bothered to show up in those (Why Nintendo doesn't just buy the rights to Geno/Mallow/Boshi already...it's not like Squeenix is using them). Thus, he's a one-off third party from ages ago and whose series doesn't seem to be going further. People doubt other potential characters based on any one of those factors, and Geno's hitting all of them.

But like every character, give me the Dragonborn, and I'll campaign for Geno with the rest of you all.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Warioware Gold's amiibo functionality has Wario's drawings of the characters. No third party or Pokemon characters but every other amiibo's there

Scary to think that if Smash was a new series being made today, Pokemon probably wouldn't be in it.

 

[Zinith]

Warioware Gold's amiibo functionality has Wario's drawings of the characters. No third party or Pokemon characters but every other amiibo's there

Thank you Gwen

 

[Pyra]

I think it'll be the giant egg from the Yoshi's Island games (or New Island in all of its mediocrity). Basically just aim and fire a giant egg, easy peasy.

I mean, i can see it.
Would be better than some other things.
Imagine if his FS was just him transforming into Dragon Yoshi and moving to the side of the stage to... send out a fireball wave like Mario or something

Maybe he'll get some kind of cool cutscene one though
Like he summons a hoard of other Yoshis and they all do something together, like stampede or shoot out Mario final smashes

 

[Icedragonadam]

Did anyone used Ness or Lucas's amiibo in Warioware Gold?

 

[Blargg888]

No, as much as I like MM over OoT, I don't expect much, and even if I had something from that game I wish was his final smash, I'd just want the moon to crash down.
I know he can't actually do that, so it wouldn't happen haha, but hey

I know Yoshi basically must get a new one because his old FS was a transformation.

TBH, as far as stuff goes that YL can pull from his games, there's not much that stands out, so it'll probably be either Triforce Slash or Fierce Deity.

Who knows though? Maybe it'll be something else, but there's no way to know until we see it.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, i can see it.
Would be better than some other things.
Imagine if his FS was just him transforming into Dragon Yoshi and moving to the side of the stage to... send out a fireball wave like Mario or something

Maybe he'll get some kind of cool cutscene one though
Like he summons a hoard of other Yoshis and they all do something together, like stampede or shoot out Mario final smashes

So his final smash would be that one scene from Melee's intro?

 

[Zinith]

So his final smash would be that one scene from Melee's intro?

It'd also be one of Mini-Yoshi's moves in Paper Mario: the Thousand-Year Door

 

[Pyra]

TBH, as far as stuff goes that YL can pull from his games, there's not much that stands out, so it'll probably be either Triforce Slash or Fierce Deity.

Who knows though? Maybe it'll be something else, but there's no way to know until we see it.

i'm tellin ya man
Imagine him having a cutscene final smash where he plays the Oath to Order and only 3 of the giants end up showing up and the moon just crashes and wrecks everyone's ****

Bonus: if used on Great Bay the moon is just gone for the rest of the match and Alfonzo takes its place

Won't happen, but hahaha a man can dream

So his final smash would be that one scene from Melee's intro?

I totally forgot about that.
It's canon guys let's go

 

[RandomAce]

I don’t why they changed Pit’s final Smash.

The three Sacred treasures would still work well with the new type of final smashes they’re going for, the Lighting Chariot sort of feels, meh.

Plus, Dark Pit doesn’t have a reason to be an echo anymore. Sakurai said that DP wasn’t a costume because it would be weird for him to use the three sacred treasures (I know the real reason, but Sakurai’s official statement was that). Pit’s FS is the Lighting Chariot, guess who else uses that? Dark Pit.

Dark Pit has no reason to be in Smash because of that and can easily be a costume swap. But with echoes, he still stays as a bonus character.

 

[KMDP]

I apologize for not clicking on those and realizing you're a master of comedy

(i laughed pretty loudly when i went back to click them hahahaa)

Aw, shucks. XD
---
Okay, made this Mock Tier List (with High Tier Yoshi).
This one is based on the secondary numbers used for the Tier Lists on SSBWiki (which I am to understand is the voting average from this Site's Smash Back Room?). Naturally, this leads to heavy bias towards veterans, the older the better. The bottom tier is literally all the low tier Smash 4 Newcomers. XD

Spoiler: SS Tier

Spoiler: S Tier

Spoiler: A+ Tier

()

Spoiler: A Tier

Spoiler: B Tier

Spoiler: C Tier

Spoiler: D Tier

ultlittlemac:
Yes, even in this version of the list, Wii Fit Trainer is still rock bottom. She can't catch a break.

Disclaimer: Like the last one. This is just for fun and not a real Tier List.

 

[Zinith]

Aw, shucks. XD
Okay, made this Mock Tier List (with High Tier Yoshi).
This one is based on the secondary numbers used for the Tier Lists on SSBWiki (which I am to understand is the voting average from this Site's Smash Back Room?). Naturally, this leads to heavy bias towards veterans, the older the better. The bottom tier is literally all the low tier Smash 4 Newcomers. XD

Spoiler: SS Tier

Spoiler: S Tier

Spoiler: A+ Tier

()

Spoiler: A Tier

Spoiler: B Tier

Spoiler: C Tier

Spoiler: D Tier

ultlittlemac:
Yes, even in this version of the list, Wii Fit Trainer is still rock bottom. She can't catch a break.

Disclaimer: Like the last one. This is just for fun and not a real Tier List.

You're missing Luigi

 

[KMDP]

You're missing Luigi

There's always one.

Fixed.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Aw, shucks. XD
Okay, made this Mock Tier List (with High Tier Yoshi).
This one is based on the secondary numbers used for the Tier Lists on SSBWiki (which I am to understand is the voting average from this Site's Smash Back Room?). Naturally, this leads to heavy bias towards veterans, the older the better. The bottom tier is literally all the low tier Smash 4 Newcomers. XD

Spoiler: SS Tier

Spoiler: S Tier

Spoiler: A+ Tier

()

Spoiler: A Tier

Spoiler: B Tier

Spoiler: C Tier

Spoiler: D Tier

ultlittlemac:
Yes, even in this version of the list, Wii Fit Trainer is still rock bottom. She can't catch a break.

Disclaimer: Like the last one. This is just for fun and not a real Tier List.

You put Palutena twice, in both A+ AND D tier

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t why they changed Pit’s final Smash.

The three Sacred treasures would still work well with the new type of final smashes they’re going for, the Lighting Chariot sort of feels, meh.

Plus, Dark Pit doesn’t have a reason to be an echo anymore. Sakurai said that DP wasn’t a costume because it would be weird for him to use the three sacred treasures (I know the real reason, but Sakurai’s official statement was that). Pit’s FS is the Lighting Chariot, guess who else uses that? Dark Pit.

Dark Pit has no reason to be in Smash because of that and can easily be a costume swap. But with echoes, he still stays as a bonus character.

I'd be kind of sad if I lost Electroshock Arm jank just because Pit and Dark Pit could have the same Final Smash now.

And everyone is here

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

That reminds me about Shadow's run animation, don't Daisy, Dark Pit and Lucina have the same runnig animations as there counterparts? Would Shadow still be considered an echo if his is different?

If daisy has a different idle I don't see why shadow can't have a different running animation