Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Well done! #PokemonUltraSunMoon are available exclusively on the Nintendo #3DS family of systems. Grab them today! https://t.co/yuRrfLs2us pic.twitter.com/nZD2YQ8N9n

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) July 26, 2018

NOA is just complementing everyone even though most people just replied with memes.

Sounds like a kid's educational toy.

"What does a cow say?"
"Woof!"
"That's right, a cow says 'moo'!"

 

[Blargg888]

Did I make it sound like the transition was instant, though? Or was that something you read into my post?

It was this post:

Lord-who-is-not-Marth-Chrom-or-Lucina: Mr. Blacksmith, this sword's metal has worn down some, could you reforge it?
Blacksmith: Sure!
*a few days later*
Blacksmith: *hands lord a huge sword* Here! Reforged!
Lord: Umm... this is the Falchion, right?
Blacksmith: You said it had worn down, I added some metal.
Lord: ..."some", huh?

Also, I'm not sure I get what you mean by this:

Also, if anything, the Awakening Falchion should be the one with the thinner middle. XD

Why would it be? Awakening takes place after SD. If it actually was thinner than the SD Falchion, then it wouldn't make any sense why the shape changed.
It's because the Awakening Falchion is bigger that this can make sense.

 

[KMDP]

It was this post:

What, a joke scenario I wrote of the fly?

Also, I'm not sure I get what you mean by this:

Why would it be? Awakening takes place after SD. If it actually was thinner than the SD Falchion, then it wouldn't make any sense why the shape changed.
It's because the Awakening Falchion is bigger that this can make sense.

Awakening takes place after Shadow Dragon, my point was that the Awakening version should have a thinner middle because, after 2000 years of combat, it's middle section would have gotten worn down, were it a normal sword.

A swordsman who fights only with a sword (i.e. without a shield) must use the sword to block, naturally this wears on the sword's edges.

Lucina says that the Falchion's blade never dulls (in her support conversation with her sibling). Either she's wrong, or the writers screwed up big time. XD
EDIT: What do I mean by this? What's the point of reforging Falchion (making it bigger) if the blade never dulls ever? The hilt, obviously, would decay, but hilts are made of wood.

 

[Blargg888]

Lucina says that the Falchion's blade never dulls (in her support conversation with her sibling). Either she's wrong, or the writers screwed up big time.

But why though?
As far as I can tell, Falchion's blade really hasn't dulled. So there's no real reason to doubt the validity of that statement.

 

[KMDP]

But why though?
As far as I can tell, Falchion's blade really hasn't dulled. So there's no real reason to doubt the validity of that statement.

What's the point of reforging Falchion (making it bigger) if the blade never dulls ever? The hilt, obviously, would decay, but hilts are made of wood.

 

[Idon]

What, a joke scenario I wrote of the fly?

Awakening takes place after Shadow Dragon, my point was that the Awakening version should have a thinner middle because, after 2000 years of combat, it's middle section would have gotten worn down, were it a normal sword.

Lucina says that the Falchion's blade never dulls (in her support conversation with her sibling). Either she's wrong, or the writers screwed up big time. XD

Here's my personal theory on the never dulling bit.
The blade, the white steel of the blade, never dulls and that's what's reforged constantly. (Because a craftsman's fire is stronger than a dragon's scales? but that's beside the point)

Now, if I were to personally offer an explanation as to how Awakening's Falchion is bigger despite the constant reforges, I'd say it probably has to do with the golden hilt that stretches all the way down the length of the blade. If that space wasn't all "Falchion Steel" then there'd be much more space around the edges for the "blade" bit to be spread around leading to a bigger blade with the same amount of divine steel.

If you want a lore explanation as to why it even became like this, maybe Chrom's dad didn't like that it was some pansy stick and said to his royal blacksmith "I DEMAND THAT YOU REFORGE THIS INTO A GIANT BROADSWORD." or something.
If you want a REAL reason, it's because the power of marketing gives every protagonist a unique weapon to show off and we can't exactly reuse the Falchion cuz that's Marth's, kinda Alm's, kinda Sigurd's, and kinda Seliph's thing.

(Oh lord, everything in my sig's broken. Damn you all smashboards. Damn you aaaaaaall)

 

[Blargg888]

What's the point of reforging Falchion (making it bigger) if the blade never dulls ever? The hilt, obviously, would decay, but hilts are made of wood.

To accommodate a different fighting style.

In Shadow Dragon, Marth attacks by thrusting his sword forward, tip first.

However, in Awakening, both Lucina and Chrom attack by swinging the sword in an arc. So it makes more sense for it to be a different shape.

 

[KMDP]

To accommodate a different fighting style.

In Shadow Dragon, Marth attacks by thrusting his sword forward, tip first.

However, in Awakening, both Lucina and Chrom attack by swinging the sword in an arc. So it makes more sense for it to be a different shape.

But that would mean the change would be "instant", as you called issue to, because Chrom would have been the one to change the Falchion to accomodate his fighting style.

It's not like the Falchion is like Soul Edge and Soul Calibur, and changes itself to suit it's wielder (now, if IntSys had said that anywhere, there wouldn't be a problem. )

 

[perfectchaos83]

The Falchion has broken several times which needed constant reforging. The blade itself is self repairing (Possibly because it's forged from a Fang of Naga giving it divine properties), but the sword as a whole does not have the same perk.

 

[KMDP]

The Falchion has broken several times which needed constant reforging. The blade itself is self repairing (Possibly because it's forged from a Fang of Naga giving it divine properties), but the sword as a whole does not have the same perk.

The hilt breaks, because the hilt is an ordinary hilt made of either wood or ordinary steel. The blade does not break (as you said).

Swords are made by either stabbing a metal sword's back end (also sharp, but shaped like a spike) into a wooden hilt, or using the heat of a forge to weld two pieces of metal (the blade and the hilt) together. There is no reason to change the shape of the Falchion's blade, because the blade never dulls.

 

[Blargg888]

But that would mean the change would be "instant", as you called issue to, because Chrom would have been the one to change the Falchion to accomodate his fighting style.

Except that's not necessarily true.

For all we know, the fighting style of the people using Falchion changed or evolved over the years, and at some point it was decided that Falchion should be reforged.

Remember, there are 2000 years between NMotE and Awakening, that's about 20+ generations of different people wielding Falchion. It's not strange at all that Falchion would be reforged to accommodate for its wielders' fighting styles, or that those very fighting styles would evolve over the dual millenia.

 

[perfectchaos83]

The hilt breaks, because the hilt is an ordinary hilt made of either wood or ordinary steel. The blade does not break (as you said).

Swords are made by either stabbing a metal sword's back end (also sharp, but shaped like a spike) into a wooden hilt, or using the heat of a forge to weld two pieces of metal (the blade and the hilt) together. There is no reason to change the shape of the Falchion's blade, because the blade never dulls.

Could be personal preference of the weilder. Blade breaks and instead of just using the same looking blade they spice it up and forge it differently or to better suit the style of the user. There are countless possibilities for why the shape itself changes when there's no 'practical' reason to change the shape of the blade.

 

[KMDP]

Except that's not necessarily true.

For all we know, the fighting style of the people using Falchion changed or evolved over the years, and at some point it was decided that Falchion should be reforged.

Remember, there are 2000 years between NMotE and Awakening, that's about 20+ generations of different people wielding Falchion. It's not strange at all that Falchion would be reforged to accommodate for its wielders' fighting styles, or that those very fighting styles would evolve over the dual millenia.

Actually, let me get back to you on that.

Could be personal preference of the weilder. Blade breaks and instead of just using the same looking blade they spice it up and forge it differently or to better suit the style of the user. There are countless possibilities for why the shape itself changes when there's no 'practical' reason to change the shape of the blade.

To get pedantic, you mean "the sword breaks", the blade doesn't.
Now, about Falchion's appearance.

Spoiler: Original Falchion

Link in case the image doesn't show

Spoiler: Awakening Falchion

Link in case the image doesn't show.

Disregarding weird size changes, it looks like the blades are pretty much the same. What's changed is the hilt, in the Awakening version, the hilt extends all the way up the blade, probably for cosmetic purposes. The hilt end of the blade seems to have been forged around the... frankly weirdly shaped hilt; but the blade-end is still the same shape.
There's no reason for the sword's blade to change appearance drastically, even with a fighting style change; because you can use an ordinary sword like a rapier (I mean, it's not the optimal way to use it); Marth is used to fighting with a Rapier, and uses the Falchion as such, Chrom and Lucina use the Falchion as intended, as an actual sword with a sharp edge. Marth is the one using the Falchion wrong!

The Falchion is (probably) not an Estoc, a type of sword which only has a point and the edges aren't sharp. but that's not relevant to the discussion.

 

[L9999]

And yeah, Lyn is kinda important. She got a lot of people into FE, and by a lot of people, I mean everywhere that isn't Japan.

were the ones who introduced America to Fire Emblem, not Lyn.

 

[Blargg888]

Actually, let me get back to you on that.

'Kay.
It's like, 4 AM here, so I probably won't be back on until tomorrow afternoon.

 

[KMDP]

were the ones who introduced America to Fire Emblem, not Lyn.

Marth and Roy merely introduced the west to the idea that Fire Emblem was a thing. Lyn was still the one leading the charge in actual Fire Emblem gameplay.

That aside, I had heard of Fire Emblem before Melee, I had a gaming magazine which covered Binding Blade (...what little was known of it) when it was still in development and known as "Fire Emblem: Maiden of Darkness". This was a full year before Melee came out. XD

'Kay.
It's like, 4 AM here, so I probably won't be back on until tomorrow afternoon.

Actually, I meant "Let me get back to you after this quote by perfectchaos". The bulk of that message was for you.
Also, if it's 4 AM you should be in bed and not engaging in a pointless argument about a fictional weapon. Says the guy who routinely stays up until 6 AM).

 

[Blargg888]

were the ones who introduced America to Fire Emblem, not Lyn.

They were the ones who introduced its existence to the west, but Lyn was the (initial) star of the first FE game to come out overseas. Which means a lot of people's first Fire Emblem gameplay experience started with her.

 

[staindgrey]

And yeah, Lyn is kinda important. She got a lot of people into FE, and by a lot of people, I mean everywhere that isn't Japan.

If we're splitting hairs, I'd say Awakening is what introduced the majority of current Western FE fans to the series, even though "Fire Emblem" was the first one officially translated into English. Awakening sold over two million copies, and was the first in the series to actually sell more than a million in the West, while "Fire Emblem" never broke a million worldwide.

For many, Lyn was the introduction. But it's hardly everyone. I'd argue it's not even most. Fire Emblem was still niche until Awakening got a huge wave of positive press and word of mouth and finally managed to get a lot of Westerners actually playing the damn thing.

Also didn't hurt that it had a custom player character and a casual mode. Made the game less intimidating for people to pick up.

 

[Zinith]

Technically it was the moderate success of Advance Wars that helped Fire Emblem get localized in the west...

 

[KMDP]

If we're splitting hairs, I'd say Awakening is what introduced the majority of current Western FE fans to the series, even though "Fire Emblem" was the first one officially translated into English. Awakening sold over two million copies, and was the first in the series to actually sell more than a million in the West, while "Fire Emblem" never broke a million worldwide.

For many, Lyn was the introduction. But it's hardly everyone. I'd argue it's not even most. Fire Emblem was still niche until Awakening got a huge wave of positive press and word of mouth and finally managed to get a lot of Westerners actually playing the damn thing.

I think you quoted the wrong guy, there. XD Idon was the guy who said that. I don't disagree with your post, though.

Technically it was the moderate success of Advance Wars that helped Fire Emblem get localized in the west...

Positive reception to Marth and Roy + "Hey, Advance Wars is doing pretty okay, let's release Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken in English" = Released Fire Emblem and the complete eventual dissolution of the Nintendo Wars series.

 

[Blargg888]

Man, this really feels like the "Fire Emblem" Ultimate Discussion thread right now.

Alright, I'm off for tonight.

 

[KMDP]

Man, this really feels like the "Fire Emblem" Ultimate Discussion thread right now.

Alright, I'm off for tonight.

Good lava monsters don't stay up until 4AM.

Good night, Blargg.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Just realized a great idea for an echo fighter no one else has thought

Spoiler

Vampire Wario

 

[Zinith]

Just realized a great idea for an echo fighter no one else has thought

Spoiler

Vampire Wario

Would he be a Wario rep or a Mario rep (or a Dr. Mario one)? :sarcasm:

 

[KMDP]

Speaking of "Wario Rep", really it shouldn't be "Wario Ware". It also shouldn't be "Wario Land". Conflate the two series into one for Smash and just call it "Wario".

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Speaking of "Wario Rep", really it shouldn't be "Wario Ware". It also shouldn't be "Wario Land". Conflate the two series into one for Smash and just call it "Wario".

I always say sakurai should have Syrup rep the Wario Land side of the series by giving her warios shoulder bash and pick up mixed with her own set of moves if he doesnt want to give wario anything from Wario Land that badly

 

[KMDP]

I always say sakurai should have Syrup rep the Wario Land side of the series by giving her warios shoulder bash and pick up mixed with her own set of moves if he doesnt want to give wario anything from Wario Land that badly

I think they should have Captain Syrup piloting a modified version of the Mecha Kuri as a fighter. Then again Wario Land 2 is my favourite Wario Land game and I'm biased.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Last week in July guys, if anyone is hoping for a possible surprise trailer tweet i would bet on today or next friday around EVO. iirc we got the tweet on a friday around 10AM (9PM JP time) and it was for a monday reveal back in 2014.

 

[Zinith]

Last week in July guys, if anyone is hoping for a possible surprise trailer tweet i would bet on today or next friday around EVO. iirc we got the tweet on a friday around 10AM (9PM JP time) and it was for a monday reveal back in 2014.

It IS getting down to the wire on getting any new information for this month. I fear that Bill Trinen's words on info being revealed "close to the release of the game" might be literal...

 

[Apollo500]

I have a feeling August is when we'll get our first lot of new information since E3. I can see there being a small Direct sometime in August with a newcomer trailer and maybe a feature or two being shown at the end.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

It IS getting down to the wire on getting any new information for this month. I fear that Bill Trinen's words on info being revealed "close to the release of the game" might be literal...

I always suspected we'd get nothing in July, but we're for sure getting something in August. As far as I know, the online is still listed to launch in "September 2018" so we're sure as hell going to get a direct talking about it in August and Smash is almost guaranteed to show up there.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

It IS getting down to the wire on getting any new information for this month. I fear that Bill Trinen's words on info being revealed "close to the release of the game" might be literal...

I agree and theres two things i feel we can take from this, either Sakurai was quite literal when he meant do not expect too many newcomers which can range from about 3-5 imo. Or we can end up with another info dump come Sept/Oct/Nov and have several newcomers revealed in one verse (though i highly doubt this).

 

[Dragoncharystary]

As far as reveals for the rest of the year are concerned, this is what I'm betting on:

Remainder of July: Nothing
August: Nintendo Direct focusing on the online service. One new character revealed here and my money's on Ashley.
September: No new character this month but smaller things revealed via the blog like new items, stages, assist trophies, etc.
October: Smash Direct that will go all in on new info. New modes, stages, items, and whatever else is covered here. Two new characters here.
November: Blog will really go in depth on stuff that was covered with the direct. One more new character dropped via a website announcement like Robin was to really drive the hype levels to the max before the game launches. Roster will probably get leaked at some point this month as well.
December: Launch of game. I'll bet two or three new characters are hidden until after launch.

 

[KMDP]

I agree and theres two things i feel we can take from this, either Sakurai was quite literal when he meant do not expect too many newcomers which can range from about 3-5 imo. Or we can end up with another info dump come Sept/Oct/Nov and have several newcomers revealed in one verse (though i highly doubt this).

Considering how many Newcomers we usually get (~13 New Fighters); in my opinion, when Sakurai said "I hope you aren't expecting too many new fighters", it can range from +6 to +13, this includes Inklings, Daisy and Ridley, but doesn't include any DLC we may or may not get.
Don't forget that just like Sakurai saying "This will probably be the last Smash game", he has also said "I hope [the fans] aren't expecting too many new fighters" before.

 

[dezeray112]

So if everyone series had one new representative who would you choose and why? (obviously some couldn't have a new representative but the ones that can)

Super Mario: Captain Toad.
Donkey Kong: King K. Rool.
Legend of Zelda: One of the Champions from Breath of the Wild.
Metroid: Dark Samus.
Yoshi: N/A
Kirby: Bandana Dee.
StarFox: Slippy Toad.
Pokemon: Decidueye.
F-Zero: Black Shadow.
Earthbound: N/A
Fire Emblem: Edelgard (as DLC.)
Kid Icarus: Viridi.
Warioware: Ashley.
Metal Gear: N/A
Retro rep: Excitebiker
Animal Crossing: Isabelle.
Punch Out: Mr. Sandman.
Pikmin: N/A
Xenoblade: Elma (Rex & Pyra as DLC.)
Sonic the Hedgehog: Dr. Eggman
Street Fighter: Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Terra Branford.
Pac-Man: Mrs. Pac-Man
Megaman: Zero
Bayonetta: N/A
CAPCOM Rep: Monster Hunter
Bandai Namco Rep: Heihachi Mishima
SEGA: Akira Yuki
Konami: Simon Belmont

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Considering how many Newcomers we usually get (~13 New Fighters); in my opinion, when Sakurai said "I hope you aren't expecting too many new fighters", it can range from +6 to +13, this includes Inklings, Daisy and Ridley, but doesn't include any DLC we may or may not get.
Don't forget that just like Sakurai saying "This will probably be the last Smash game", he has also said "I hope [the fans] aren't expecting too many new fighters" before.

That is true, if we consider the veterans Snake, Wolf, Ice Climbers, Pichu, Young Link, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Newcomers Inkling, Ridley, and Daisy (Which is 10 fighters). Would you say its safe to expect atleast 5-7?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think they should have Captain Syrup piloting a modified version of the Mecha Kuri as a fighter. Then again Wario Land 2 is my favourite Wario Land game and I'm biased.

At least with Bowser Jr. as a base, this can work. She needs the genie from WL1 as a FS, though.

 

[P.Kat]

The 6 newcomers yet to be revealed are Okami:

Well at least Amaterasu is relevant in a leak after sometime so that's... something

Looks like Tracer is the most recent Flavor of The Week(tm) character in leaks, with Reimu being last week’s. Either way I can’t believe leaks with them, without verifiable proof (videos, legit looking screens that aren’t blurred to all hell)

Also Dry Bowser...LOL

Wouldn't mind Tracer if she made it to Smash, same with Reimu I could see It happening, but Overwatch would have to hit the Switch to better her chances.

 

[UltraDude20]

I'm expecting at least 4 to be announced while another 3 will only be restricted to when the game comes out like Melee.

 

[Zinith]

Well at least she relevant in leak after sometime so that's... something

Wouldn't mind Tracer if she made it to Smash, same with Reimu I could see It happening, but Overwatch would have to hit the Switch to better her chances.

Oh, so THAT'S where that clip comes from...

Spoiler

And I've SEEN Naked Gun before. What's wrong with me?