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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Not that I support Goku as a Smash character, but he's actually appeared on a Nintendo console in 42 separate games.

Something to think about.
What about Goku from Yuyuki? Characters from that game appeared in the Kirby series twice (one appearance by Chao got edited out for the US version of KDL2), so that Goku would arguably be in a position for a "reunion" with Kirby.
 

elephant13

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Can't find a guide for if i messed up lol
when you start a save in a zelda dungeon you're placed in the first area of the dunegon. so I'm saying from the beginning follow a guide and retrace everything you've already done (just run through the rooms and make sure you did what the guide says) until you get to your point
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Uh... you have at least watched videos of Minecraft, right? In Survival mode, your character is visible on the inventory menu.

Even for people who haven’t played Minecraft or watched videos of it but have gone to a store selling video games, though, they’re sure to have seen him on the boxart for physical copies or in the game merch section.
I meant through gameplay, like yes you can see the character but not through the majority of play. Unless it Mayne does have a third person view? Then I stand corrected.

But as I said most people just use skins so even though there is a version of the avatar that is marketed and used, it's barely the one people relate to. Steve is the purest form of player avatar, more akin to Miis than Robin or Corrin.
Well, Tetris was once upon a time a huge deal for Nintendo. They had at least some rights exclusivity for a time and a lot of Tetris fans' favorite versions are the Nintendo one (I still swear by the original Gameboy version as the superior version of the game for a few reasons). Tetris block would be more of a Megaman level of relation character than a Cloud level character.

But I'm a Nintendo elitist specifically in regards to Smash as well, so I get that. I'd actually be curious to see what 3rd parties other "Nintendo elitists" would choose if they were forced at gunpoint to include 3. For me, it'd be Neku, someone from Octopath (Primrose or...well, no spoilers), and Momohime. Of course my Nintendo preference is still showing since all 3 either started or still are Nintendo exclusive.
Honestly I think Smash is good with 3rd parties, but I know that's not gunna happen lol. As it stands we have over 10% 3rd party, that's a lot for me :(.

If I were to choose one, it would be Travis Touchdown though. Huge fan of the game and he's simialr to Bayo where he's not an icon but has a history with Nintendo and Sakurai as well. I like Lazer swords.

Edit: ABSOLUTELY FORGOT BANJO! I don't care for him but he's the remaining third party from Nintendo's history that is missing that I think needs to be in Smash....also I guess a Castlevania rep would be cool but Simon is lame lol.
 
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staindgrey

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But I'm a Nintendo elitist specifically in regards to Smash as well, so I get that. I'd actually be curious to see what 3rd parties other "Nintendo elitists" would choose if they were forced at gunpoint to include 3.
1) Banjo & Kazooie
2) Phoenix Wright
3) Shantae

All three have origins on Nintendo hardware, and in Shantae's and Phoenix's cases, every single game in their series has been released on a Nintendo console.
 

praline

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> Would retire from smash if Steve made it in
> Sees Steve as a worse choice than Goku

Those are some weird standards bro
No lie, Goku in Smash would be ****ing cool as hell... yes I know the chances are like 5% at best but still after Cloud being in Smash he’s the only character that would surprise me showing up in Smash.
 

CrusherMania1592

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Well I'm going to sleep happy that Minecraft Steve has a 0% chance of making it into the roster.

I would retire from smash if he were ever added in over 3rd party characters like Simon Belmont, Goku, Rayman, Banjo and Kazooie and master chief


You realize that Goku is an anime character first before he's playable in a video game? The odds of him even appearing is slim to none

Here's the slots that Smb123w64gb found a while back for the Wii U version. Look where Jigglypuff is at.
Link: https://twitter.com/smb123w64gb/status/716577708247875584
I find it interesting that Megaman is towards the bottom before DLC when he's only the second newcomer to be revealed
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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when you start a save in a zelda dungeon you're placed in the first area of the dunegon. so I'm saying from the beginning follow a guide and retrace everything you've already done (just run through the rooms and make sure you did what the guide says) until you get to your point
Ah i see. Thanks.


Anyway, Anyone excited for the New Warioware coming out tomorrow? I'd get it, But i don't have any money xD
 

Enchess

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Honestly I think Smash is good with 3rd parties, but I know that's not gunna happen lol. As it stands we have over 10% 3rd party, that's a lot for me :(.
Completely agree. That's why I was curious what 3rd parties people like us would include if forced. I assumed we'd have different choices than the standard Rayman/Crash/Belmont and we don't normally voice who they'd be since we don't actually want them haha.
 
D

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You realize that Goku is an anime character first before he's playable in a video game? The odds of him even appearing is slim to none
Goku would still be considered a 3rd party character though. An extremely unlikely one, sure, but he is a 3rd party character.
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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Completely agree. That's why I was curious what 3rd parties people like us would include if forced. I assumed we'd have different choices than the standard Rayman/Crash/Belmont and we don't normally voice who they'd be since we don't actually want them haha.
Honestly, Give me Banjo and for me, That's it for 3rd Parties xD
 
D

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Considering he's next to Pac-Man, it's probably due to the fact that they're both Third-Party characters.
Brawl's data is the same with Snake and Sonic being at the very end after Toon Link and Wolf. Sonic may have been added late in development, but Snake certainly wasn't.
 
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Impa4Smash

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Well, Tetris was once upon a time a huge deal for Nintendo. They had at least some rights exclusivity for a time and a lot of Tetris fans' favorite versions are the Nintendo one (I still swear by the original Gameboy version as the superior version of the game for a few reasons). Tetris block would be more of a Megaman level of relation character than a Cloud level character.

But I'm a Nintendo elitist specifically in regards to Smash as well, so I get that. I'd actually be curious to see what 3rd parties other "Nintendo elitists" would choose if they were forced at gunpoint to include 3. For me, it'd be Neku, someone from Octopath (Primrose or...well, no spoilers), and Momohime. Of course my Nintendo preference is still showing since all 3 either started or still are Nintendo exclusive.
I would go for Banjo-Kazooie, Rayman, and Jack Frost/Shin Megami Tensei Protgaonist personally. BK, Rayman, and SMT all have history with Nintendo. I mean, SMT is basically a Nintendo exclusive now, and Ubisoft made a Mario game.

I'm a Zelda fan, yet have never beaten a single Zelda game, I feel kinda bad about it xD

Which one should i start with? I have BOTW, Oot, And Links Awakening
OoT all day.

Though BotW and LA are both amazing as well.
 

staindgrey

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Goku would still be considered a 3rd party character though. An extremely unlikely one, sure, but he is a 3rd party character.
Well of course. His rights are owned by Bandai Namco. Regardless of the medium he's mostly in, he's only getting in a Nintendo game if Bandai Namco allows it.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I'm a Zelda fan, yet have never beaten a single Zelda game, I feel kinda bad about it xD

Which one should i start with? I have BOTW, Oot, And Links Awakening
I used to be in the same situation as you are in right now Zelda wise atleast...sorry Metroid)...until I beat BOTW thanks to hard work/determination/YouTube to figure out how to beat the bosses

So the life lesson here is to beat BOTW first
1) Banjo-Kazooie - Some quality N64 platforming, that in my mind will always represent that era in a big way
2) Phoenix Wright - So intrinsic to the Gameboy/DS systems that in my mind he pretty much is a Nintendo character
3) Tetris - HUGE on the original Gameboy, and I saw a moveset that actual looked super fun/amazing
1) YES
2) Yes...but Imma need another Sonic rep or a Super Monkey Ball character
3) Assist Trophy (we don’t need more op characters in Smash)
4) More Sonic characters
Goku would still be considered a 3rd party character though. An extremely unlikely one, sure, but he is a 3rd party character.
Goku is a Z Party Character
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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I used to be in the same situation as you are in right now Zelda wise atleast...sorry Metroid)...until I beat BOTW thanks to hard work/determination/YouTube to figure out how to beat the bosses

So the life lesson here is to beat BOTW first

1) YES
2) Yes...but Imma need another Sonic rep or a Super Monkey Ball character
3) Assist Trophy (we don’t need more op characters in Smash)
4) More Sonic characters

Goku is a Z Party Character
That thunder boss with the sword is the death of me, any tips?
 

Enchess

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Goku supporters should ask themselves: Do you love original Dragon Ball, not just DBZ? Because I feel like if you guys against all odds get Goku in, Sakurai would pull a Megaman/Pacman and use the original little kid Goku (aka best Goku) instead of Z Goku.
But for real, I'm kinda confused why Goku conversation keeps happening. I feel like Goku has less chance than Stardew Valley avatar.
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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Goku supporters should ask themselves: Do you love original Dragon Ball, not just DBZ? Because I feel like if you guys against all odds get Goku in, Sakurai would pull a Megaman/Pacman and use the original little kid Goku (aka best Goku) instead of Z Goku.
But for real, I'm kinda confused why Goku conversation keeps happening. I feel like Goku has less chance than Stardew Valley avatar.
Same. I don't understand why people even bring him up.
 
D

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Goku supporters should ask themselves: Do you love original Dragon Ball, not just DBZ? Because I feel like if you guys against all odds get Goku in, Sakurai would pull a Megaman/Pacman and use the original little kid Goku (aka best Goku) instead of Z Goku.
But for real, I'm kinda confused why Goku conversation keeps happening. I feel like Goku has less chance than Stardew Valley avatar.
If Sakurai went with Kid Goku, he could just use Yuyuki's Goku instead and not have to bother with licensing.

I'd honestly prefer Kid Goku
 
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staindgrey

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Goku supporters should ask themselves: Do you love original Dragon Ball, not just DBZ? Because I feel like if you guys against all odds get Goku in, Sakurai would pull a Megaman/Pacman and use the original little kid Goku (aka best Goku) instead of Z Goku.
But for real, I'm kinda confused why Goku conversation keeps happening. I feel like Goku has less chance than Stardew Valley avatar.
How about we compromise and get GT Goku.


And then his final smash:


EDIT: Aw. Tumblr pictures apparently won't show up. Bummer.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Metal Mario is considerably heavier than Bowser though, and can survive well beyond 300% damage if opponents don't find a way to knock him off the stage.
Obviously this is why this factor needs to be weakened. As well as have him not drop like a brick. Otherwise it won't be balanced enough.

But yeah, that was my point. He needs less super armor/weight, but still should have a lot of weight to represent the original boss well enough.

-----------

As for Steve?, he doesn't bother me at all. I do think they should use his artstyle from the game covers, which aren't that muddy and would fit better. His in-game aesthetics look like they'd only fit fine in Brawl. He needs to be more colorful. Alex? can be the obvious genderswap for the other 4 costumes.
 

Knight Dude

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This whole "Minecraft artstyle" or "Ugh, fanbase" debate gave me an idea for a discussion topic...

Are there any characters you support because of how they look, or their concept, or fanbase, or whatever, but you have never touched their respective games or have any knowledge of the character outside of their wiki page? By the same token, are there any Smash characters you like a lot but don't know anything about more than their trophy?

For me, Spring Man is the big one. I've know basically nothing about ARMS, but I really started to like the concept and I'd love to see him in since he looks fun. I also really like Azura despite not having played Fates (or any Fire Emblem) just based on the idea of a waterbender/spear/dancer moveset.

As for the Smash characters I like to play but don't have experience in their games...:ultfalcon::ultduckhunt::ultfox::ultike::ultlittlemac::ultridley::ultrobin:ultroy:
Spring Man for me as well, I mostly watch some of the games matches from time to time. I don't own a Switch yet, but I'm planning to get one once Smash drops(maybe a bit before), then I'll get ARMS as well. But the characters look cool, and mechanically, they'd be pretty interesting in Smash without being too weird.
 
D

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How about we compromise and get GT Goku.


And then his final smash:


EDIT: Aw. Tumblr pictures apparently won't show up. Bummer.
If that happened, he would need different trailers based on the region, and the English trailer would be scored to the greatest anime opening theme other than the One Piece Pirate Rap.

Pictures in general seem to be broken. I can see them fine when I quote you though.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I'm a Zelda fan, yet have never beaten a single Zelda game, I feel kinda bad about it xD
Well, look at me - I'm really into Zelda, have almost played every game, know most conventions in the series, and more.

Yet despite all that, I don't want to really call myself a Zelda-fan per say...... I kinda feel like everyone is in the West, and at times it has me feel bit conflicted on it at times....

Sounds really weird, I know - but somehow my inner rebel just wants it to not feel too perfect...

 
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D

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Well of course. His rights are owned by Bandai Namco. Regardless of the medium he's mostly in, he's only getting in a Nintendo game if Bandai Namco allows it.
The video game rights are owned by Bandai Namco.
They don't own everything.
 

Iridium

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

Has anybody seen this yet? Just going to put this here.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Goku supporters should ask themselves: Do you love original Dragon Ball, not just DBZ? Because I feel like if you guys against all odds get Goku in, Sakurai would pull a Megaman/Pacman and use the original little kid Goku (aka best Goku) instead of Z Goku.
But for real, I'm kinda confused why Goku conversation keeps happening. I feel like Goku has less chance than Stardew Valley avatar.
Super Goku (just for him risking the entire universe and Ultra Instinct alone) >
That thunder boss with the sword is the death of me, any tips?
Backflip when he does a rush attack (gives you Furry Rush)
Reflect his rush attack to stun him (more damage done to him thanks to it)
Use magnesia (or however it’s spelled) to drop pillars thrown at you on his head
Reflect beam shot at you

All in that order of phases
 

True Blue Warrior

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Here's the slots that Smb123w64gb found a while back for the Wii U version. Look where Jigglypuff is at.
Link: https://twitter.com/smb123w64gb/status/716577708247875584
Not in the 3DS version

She's actually listed before all the Smash 4 newcomers in the 3DS version so that's not entirely true.
Truth is, we don't know for sure if Jigglypuff was that low priority seeing as the evidence is inconclusive.

I mean your argument here literally applies to every possible character, even Goku or Superman. This argument could even justify Bruce Willis as a playable character. We all draw the line somewhere or else there'd be calls for memes in Smash. I don't think there's anything wrong with my line being "Nintendo or important to Nintendo". It's not really more arbitrary than "originated in a video game" at the end of the day.
There is really no need to compare Steve to non-video game characters.
 

Deathcarter

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As an inverse to characters you'd want because of how they look, I know a lot of people are fans of Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Rex and Pyra, but I think their character designs are atrocious. I know a lot of people would be happy to have them in the game, so I wouldn't be angry about it or anything, but I can't stand looking at them.
Funnily, I feel the same about Elma. Not because she looks stupid like Rex & Pyra do but because thanks to Monolith Soft cruddy modeling she looks devoid of personality and outside of her skin color comes off as generally uninspired which in my view is just as bad as a stupid design. The modeling in Xenoblade X in general is bad enough that I'd go so far as to say it single-handedly makes Elma and the rest of the X cast far less popular in general than they could potentially have been.
 
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Knight Dude

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Completely agree. That's why I was curious what 3rd parties people like us would include if forced. I assumed we'd have different choices than the standard Rayman/Crash/Belmont and we don't normally voice who they'd be since we don't actually want them haha.
I think any of those 3 would make people really happy, so I see no problem adding them in. Though Heihachi or Jin Kazama would be my ideal choice(that's realistic, a non Mishima ain't happening for Tekken, if even anyone at all).

Most people in gaming sites tend to mention Shantae, Shovel Knight and Quote. And plenty of people want Sora, but honestly, he's one of the few I'm not rooting for in some fashion.
 

Enchess

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There is really no need to compare Steve to non-video game characters.
I wouldn't normally, but the argument went beyond the normal "Smash is a general video game crossover, not a Nintendo crossover" one and the poster's response to me didn't deny I took it the way they meant it.

I do think there are quite a few cons Steve supporters don't like to acknowledge when compared to other video game characters, but I'm not gonna rehash those because I know I pissed people off a lot and got ranted at last time I did.

I think any of those 3 would make people really happy, so I see no problem adding them in.
I don't view those 3 as particularly problematic 3rd parties. I was just saying those are typical requests and the Smash Nintendo purists are not the typical group, so I was wondering how our 3rd party ideas differed. One theme immediately present in the few responses were 3rd parties with some sort of Nintendo exclusivity in their premier title.
 
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Iridium

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I'm a Zelda fan, yet have never beaten a single Zelda game, I feel kinda bad about it xD

Which one should i start with? I have BOTW, Oot, And Links Awakening
Interestingly, OoT was the first game I ever finished (3DS version though). However, Meta Knight got me wanting to play Smash for the the first time (I did not know about Brawl Meta Knight though). Greninja was the first character I ever played, but I also found Link fun to play, so he become my #1 main which explains my character choices in my profile).
 

Will

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Funnily, I feel the same about Elma. Not because she looks stupid like Rex & Pyra do but because thanks to Monolith Soft cruddy modeling she looks devoid of personality and outside of her skin color comes off as generally uninspired which in my view is just as bad as a stupid design. The modeling in Xenoblade X in general is bad enough that I'd go so far as to say it single-handedly makes Elma and the rest of the X cast far less popular in general than they could potentially have been.
Xenoblade's models were never really that great IMO. I mean, you have:

Wii graphics
Enhanced Wii graphics
Enhanced Wii graphics fused with anime
 

Garteam

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About that, is there any data of Dusk Lycanroc in the original Sun & Moon? I remember when the game was datamined and I don't remember that coming up at all. Just curious because it's a big reason I don't think Lycanroc is as likely as other Gen 7 pokemon.
There's no data for Lycanroc Dusk specifically in Sun/Moon, but there was data for 2 placeholder Lycanroc in the update for version 1.3 of Pokemon Bank, meaning the idea for Dusk Lycanroc was at least conceived by then.
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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Super Goku (just for him risking the entire universe and Ultra Instinct alone) >

Backflip when he does a rush attack (gives you Furry Rush)
Reflect his rush attack to stun him (more damage done to him thanks to it)
Use magnesia (or however it’s spelled) to drop pillars thrown at you on his head
Reflect beam shot at you

All in that order of phases
I've tried and i can't do it for the life of me
 

Knight Dude

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Goku supporters should ask themselves: Do you love original Dragon Ball, not just DBZ? Because I feel like if you guys against all odds get Goku in, Sakurai would pull a Megaman/Pacman and use the original little kid Goku (aka best Goku) instead of Z Goku.
But for real, I'm kinda confused why Goku conversation keeps happening. I feel like Goku has less chance than Stardew Valley avatar.
Even as a huge DBZ fan, I wouldn't really want Goku in Smash. There's a lot of choices before I'd go outside of video games. I'd rather they make a proper follow up to Jump Ultimate Stars on the DS.

Goku's really popular overall, AND he's got memes going for him. Which is why you don't see people talking about say, Spider-Man or Batman, who are also popular and iconic. So with actual popularity, and with memes and ****, Goku gets talked about a lot.

Most people like both versions of Goku, but the DBZ version has been used more in other media. Kid Goku would still hype people up. Though I'd much rather have Kid Goku(and Great Saiyaman) in Dragon Ball FighterZ than in Smash sooooooo...yeah.
 
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MBRedboy31

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I meant through gameplay, like yes you can see the character but not through the majority of play. Unless it Mayne does have a third person view? Then I stand corrected.

But as I said most people just use skins so even though there is a version of the avatar that is marketed and used, it's barely the one people relate to. Steve is the purest form of player avatar, more akin to Miis than Robin or Corrin.
I don’t know about the console and mobile versions, but the PC version does have a third person mode. However, switching to it is mapped to one of the function keys, so it’s understandable if not as many players know about it, and the game isn’t really designed to be played in third person anyway, the third person mode is more of just a side feature.

There’s still a bit of a difference between Miis and Steve, which is that Steve has a well known default even if said default is really generic, while the “default” Miis (I guess the Guests are the default Miis?) are even more generic than Steve is and don’t really have individual names other than their Guest titles.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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But I'm a Nintendo elitist specifically in regards to Smash as well, so I get that. I'd actually be curious to see what 3rd parties other "Nintendo elitists" would choose if they were forced at gunpoint to include 3. For me, it'd be Neku, someone from Octopath (Primrose or...well, no spoilers), and Momohime. Of course my Nintendo preference is still showing since all 3 either started or still are Nintendo exclusive.
If we're going for characters closely tied to Nintendo's hip:

1) Shantae, since she was born on a type of Game Boy model like Kirby and Wario, and has mostly stayed faithful to the company.
2) Rayman, as Rayman 2 was a big deal for the N64 back in the day, and the first game originally would have been on the humble SNES.
3) Ryu Hayabusa, due to the original NES trilogy having been the biggest pioneers of cinematic VG storytelling.

If Sakurai went with Kid Goku, he could just use Yuyuki's Goku instead and not have to bother with licensing.

I'd honestly prefer Kid Goku
I would love to see this kind of bait and switch regarding Yuyuki Goku, similarly to this AVGN ep concerning on an equally big request:
 

Deathcarter

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Xenoblade's models were never really that great IMO. I mean, you have:

Wii graphics
Enhanced Wii graphics
Enhanced Wii graphics fused with anime
The main cast in Xenoblade 2 actually look fairly good in terms of modeling though. Granted most of the NPCs and a lot of the blades look like crap though.
 
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Xenoblade's models were never really that great IMO. I mean, you have:

Wii graphics
Enhanced Wii graphics
Enhanced Wii graphics fused with anime
Don't forget downgraded Wii graphics so the game can function on a 3DS :p

Xenoblade may be one of my favorite games, but the graphics are...not great.
 
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