Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Enderwoman]

Well, i think we have to have some standards. and not just think everyone has a chance. I think they should be Nintendo, or have some history with Nintendo. Now, i noticed you mentioned Sonic, Snake, Cloud, and Bayonetta, as evidence this rule doesn't apply, but here's what i say: All those characters have been on a Nintendo system, and therefore the Company has a Relationship with Nintendo. That Company. after Publishing several games on Nintendo's console, they're familiar with each other. V.S. Shrek Super Slam And Knuckles or something like that. which got like, One game.

I find something a lot of Smash fans tend to miss is that having a close relationship with Nintendo is not the basis for having a character in and is more a matter of ease of access. There is no other way Bayonetta could have got in the game than she was really easy to get.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Well, Sakurai has stated he wasn't sure he would've added Cloud if Cloud hadn't been on Nintendo platforms before. Cloud was also stated to represent FF as a whole, not his specific game. FF series has tons of history with Nintendo. Sonic had already had plenty of Nintendo appearances and at the time was widely viewed as the most important non-Nintendo character to Nintendo because of the rivals turned friends history with Sega. Bayonetta is for all practical purposes a Nintendo franchise now due to them owning the publishing writes, funding 2/3 of the franchise, and treating Bayonetta as a Nintendo character in marketing (I think I saw someone saw Bayonetta was the only 3rd party with a E3 Smash Ultimate prop display. correct me if someone else did).

Snake is and has always been the one real exception to the rule, and even then he still has history with Nintendo. Just the least. Minecraft would have even less.

It's not that I find it "scary" per se, I just think the series is going to get incredibly sloppy if they keep blurring the line. There's definitely something to be said about unity of vision and every 3rd party has weakened Smash's a bit. Whether or not you care is personal preference. Personally, I could never get into Mugen because it feels all over the place. I think this issue plagued Playstation All-Stars too. Playstation characters just don't feel quite right mixed together. It's like Ketchup on Ice Cream. Sure, both are awesome. Sure, some people like them together (and good for them). But it's not close-minded or stupid to say "actually I'd rather enjoy the two separately."

Does Nintendo owning the Publishing rights make it a Nintendo Character? I kinda just looked at who actually OWNS the character or does Nintendo own a portion of her?
Edit: Never mind, yes they do.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This whole "Minecraft artstyle" or "Ugh, fanbase" debate gave me an idea for a discussion topic...

Are there any characters you support because of how they look, or their concept, or fanbase, or whatever, but you have never touched their respective games or have any knowledge of the character outside of their wiki page? By the same token, are there any Smash characters you like a lot but don't know anything about more than their trophy?

For me, Spring Man is the big one. I've know basically nothing about ARMS, but I really started to like the concept and I'd love to see him in since he looks fun. I also really like Azura despite not having played Fates (or any Fire Emblem) just based on the idea of a waterbender/spear/dancer moveset.

As for the Smash characters I like to play but don't have experience in their games...ultroy:

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I'm indifferent to anybody getting into Smash, even the likes of Steve(?). I don't think he's very likely, though, since unlike the other customizable protagonists like Villager and Inkling, they'd be the generic character of generic characters, and there's not necessarily a concrete Minecraft protagonist anyway.
But hey, if we got an amiibo of him, we'd likely get the best interpretation of him by Wario as seen here (has anyone seen these yet?)

oh my god those are hilarious, I think the Falco one is my favorite

 

[Enchess]

I find that incredibly difficult to fully believe because the idea of Sakurai going through his game appearances and only allowing himself to add Cloud because he made a cameo in obscure Kingdom Hearts and rhythm games sounds incredibly stupid to me. Cloud got in purely on his reputation of being a famous character. These arguments really are just excuses to try and shoot down a character.

Spoiler: Sakurai on Cloud

"Final Fantasy is one of the few uniquely Japanese game series revered by players around the world. I think fans across the globe have hoped a character from one of those series would appear in Smash, so it was only a matter of time...and within the FF franchise, Cloud is without question the most popular choice. A number of people fixate on the fact his original game was never released on a Nintendo console, but if we were to limit our choices to characters who appeared on a Nintendo console, we’d end up with Bartz from FFV or the Onion Knight from FFIII...At the same time, I think it’s only natural to prioritize the character who enjoys worldwide popularity. I might have had misgivings if Cloud had never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form, though.

Well, whether you believe it or not, Sakurai pretty clearly lays out the situation with Cloud unfolded something like this: (1) People wanted something from Final Fantasy, a series very important to Nintendo, (2) Sakurai saw Cloud was the most popular in that series, (3) Sakurai at least considered Nintendo based FF characters, but is ultimately concerned with global recognition of the Nintendo console FF characters (since the series really exploded into mainstream with FFVII), (4) Sakurai used Nintendo appearances to legitimize Cloud's appearance, implying that he still considers Nintendo appearances a major concern.

Can things change? Yeah. But these arguments aren't just excuses. They come from interviews with the people who make the games.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Steve from Minecraft...over Banjo Kazooie...nah

There doesn't seem to be any patterns for the character posts. So far we've had: . Currently counts out to 25 if you count all the Pokemon Trainer Pokemon and the Mii Fighters. A little more than a 1/3 of the already revealed cast after nearly 7 weeks with another 19 weeks to go. Still on pace with the 3 characters a week rate many of us predicted when the updates started again though.

Sakurai has no pattern...we’ve all been through this already

would elevate this to quite possibly the best crossover in existence in my mind.

But Smash already is the best crossover

 

[Enchess]

This whole "Minecraft artstyle" or "Ugh, fanbase" debate gave me an idea for a discussion topic...

Are there any characters you support because of how they look, or their concept, or fanbase, or whatever, but you have never touched their respective games or have any knowledge of the character outside of their wiki page? By the same token, are there any Smash characters you like a lot but don't know anything about more than their trophy?

For me, Spring Man is the big one. I've know basically nothing about ARMS, but I really started to like the concept and I'd love to see him in since he looks fun. I also really like Azura despite not having played Fates (or any Fire Emblem) just based on the idea of a waterbender/spear/dancer moveset.

As for the Smash characters I like to play but don't have experience in their games...ultroy:

Qbby and Lip because I want a puzzle rep (other than Dr. Mario).

Twintelle because she's so well designed and the fighting with hair idea is awesome (I know Bayo does, but it doesn't quite read right on screen to me as hair fighting).

Labo because it would look hilarious and act as a timecapsule. I'm still a bit sad there's no hard-to-miss Virtual Boy in Smash. People are gonna forget about it at this rate.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I find something a lot of Smash fans tend to miss is that having a close relationship with Nintendo is not the basis for having a character in and is more a matter of ease of access. There is no other way Bayonetta could have got in the game than she was really easy to get.

It's not the basis, But It's definitely a Factor, And Bayo didn't get in because she was available, She got in Because fans wanted her, and Nintendo had the rights.

oh my god those are hilarious, I think the Falco one is my favorite

If you Put in Wario, He draws a Hot, Sexy Wah. GameXplain did a 1 Hour Livestream, you can see it at the end of that stream.

This whole "Minecraft artstyle" or "Ugh, fanbase" debate gave me an idea for a discussion topic...

Are there any characters you support because of how they look, or their concept, or fanbase, or whatever, but you have never touched their respective games or have any knowledge of the character outside of their wiki page? By the same token, are there any Smash characters you like a lot but don't know anything about more than their trophy?

For me, Spring Man is the big one. I've know basically nothing about ARMS, but I really started to like the concept and I'd love to see him in since he looks fun. I also really like Azura despite not having played Fates (or any Fire Emblem) just based on the idea of a waterbender/spear/dancer moveset.

As for the Smash characters I like to play but don't have experience in their games...ultroy:

Always Wanted to beat a Zelda game. I have played several, But never beaten one, they feel so hard xD I really want too. But i can't find the motivation to get up and play one.
Got Stuck on OoT and couldn't find a guide for my situation.
Got Stuck on BOTW
Got bored on Links Awakening.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I find something a lot of Smash fans tend to miss is that having a close relationship with Nintendo is not the basis for having a character in and is more a matter of ease of access. There is no other way Bayonetta could have got in the game than she was really easy to get.

Given that, the main obstacle this time is "can we contact those guys?". It's one thing to expect third-parties to make it when they're made by the Japanese, the home advantage, but another to try and get the Western ones (like Rayman, they'd have to fly all the way to France just to reach Ubisoft alone, so imagine the US).

But Smash already is the best crossover

It can become even better.

This whole "Minecraft artstyle" or "Ugh, fanbase" debate gave me an idea for a discussion topic...

Are there any characters you support because of how they look, or their concept, or fanbase, or whatever, but you have never touched their respective games or have any knowledge of the character outside of their wiki page? By the same token, are there any Smash characters you like a lot but don't know anything about more than their trophy?

For me, Spring Man is the big one. I've know basically nothing about ARMS, but I really started to like the concept and I'd love to see him in since he looks fun. I also really like Azura despite not having played Fates (or any Fire Emblem) just based on the idea of a waterbender/spear/dancer moveset.

As for the Smash characters I like to play but don't have experience in their games...ultroy:

Elma. I didn't get around to much of Xenoblade knowledge or playing period, but I do enjoy a good mecha-piloting lead character.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Not to rehash stuff against Steve or any Minecraft character, my reasoning is this - I'm already not big on 3rd parties but I get why they are there especially when they are big icons. Steve would be the first player avatar 3rd party and that's where I draw the line. He's not a historical character, especially since most players either never see him (first person) or just put skins of other characters over him anyway.

"Oh but Minecraft is best selling game etc etc". Ok. Well then Tetris Block should be a character. And guess what ? I don't ****ing think Tetris Block should be a character. A lot of people use the whole "Not every thing needs to get represented with a character" for Nintendo properties. Well that 100% applies here.

I'm totally fine with a Tetris/Minecraft stage or items or whatever, just do that. I don't want an avatar 3rd party rep.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It can become even better.

Cut half of the characters already in just because

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Not to rehash stuff against Steve or any Minecraft character, my reasoning is this - I'm already not big on 3rd parties but I get why they are there especially when they are big icons. Steve would be the first player avatar 3rd party and that's where I draw the line. He's not a historical character, especially since most players either never see him (first person) or just put skins of other characters over him anyway.

"Oh but Minecraft is best selling game etc etc". Ok. Well then Tetris Block should be a character. And guess what ? I don't ****ing think Tetris Block should be a character. A lot of people use the whole "Not every thing needs to get represented with a character" for Nintendo properties. Well that 100% applies here.

I'm totally fine with a Tetris/Minecraft stage or items or whatever, just do that. I don't want an avatar 3rd party rep.

Oh yeah, Definetly. A Basic avatar in smash would be weird, and I personally think a stage or Assist trophy better suits Minecraft.

 

[Enchess]

I don't ****ing think Tetris Block should be a character.

I know this is sorta ironic given my position in this debate, but I 100% would be ok with Tetris Block because that would be a god-tier joke character (my love of joke characters is well documented at this point)

 

[Deleted member]

there's no hard-to-miss Virtual Boy in Smash

Does R.O.B.'s Virtual Boy styled recolor count?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I know this is sorta ironic given my position in this debate, but I 100% would be ok with Tetris Block because that would be a god-tier joke character (my love of joke characters is well documented at this point)

That'd actually be kinda funny. I really like joke characters, Personally.
Wii Remote Safety Man next.

 

[staindgrey]

I find that incredibly difficult to fully believe because the idea of Sakurai going through his game appearances and only allowing himself to add Cloud because he made a cameo in obscure Kingdom Hearts and rhythm games sounds incredibly stupid to me. Cloud got in purely on his reputation of being a famous character. These arguments really are just excuses to try and shoot down a character.

And some of us still dislike Cloud being included. Just for the record.

But yes, after two games' worth of non-Nintendo characters and Cloud's inclusion specifically, Sakurai's stated requirement back during Brawl of a third party character previously appearing on a Nintendo console seems to no longer matter. For some of us who like to debate character inclusions, it still matters personally.

People disagree. It happens.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

But hey, if we got an amiibo of him, we'd likely get the best interpretation of him by Wario as seen here (has anyone seen these yet?)

Wait a minute, WarioWare Gold has amiibo functionality?

If the memoryman Woolly World amiibo thing was legit, we could see a similar situation play out with this game.

 

[Enchess]

Does R.O.B.'s Virtual Boy styled recolor count?

No, because people who don't already know what the Virtual Boy is won't get it. I'm talking like something that would cause people to pull out their phones and google what they were seeing. In 15 years, a Labo character would raise a lot of questions to kids playing Smash for the first time.

 

[staindgrey]

This whole "Minecraft artstyle" or "Ugh, fanbase" debate gave me an idea for a discussion topic...

Are there any characters you support because of how they look, or their concept, or fanbase, or whatever, but you have never touched their respective games or have any knowledge of the character outside of their wiki page? By the same token, are there any Smash characters you like a lot but don't know anything about more than their trophy?

Shantae.

I don't know why I haven't played one of her games yet. They look great. I just... haven't.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I know this is sorta ironic given my position in this debate, but I 100% would be ok with Tetris Block because that would be a god-tier joke character (my love of joke characters is well documented at this point)

Meh I think my standing on 3rd parties keeps me from wanting this. Like let Jiggly Puff, WFT and other Nintendo characters be the joke characters, but 3rd parties should be great icons worthy to join Smash or at the very least icons that are closely tied to Nintendo (looking at you Bayo).

Trust me I know I am a Nintendo elitist when it comes to Smash XD.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Meh I think my standing on 3rd parties keeps me from wanting this. Like let Jiggly Puff, WFT and other Nintendo characters be the joke characters, but 3rd parties should be great icons worthy to join Smash or at the very least icons that are closely tied to Nintendo (looking at you Bayo).

Trust me I know I am a Nintendo elitist when it comes to Smash XD.

For 3rd Party's, Oh yeah, Keep them original

 

[MBRedboy31]

especially since most players either never see him (first person)

Uh... you have at least watched videos of Minecraft, right? In Survival mode, your character is visible on the inventory menu.

Even for people who haven’t played Minecraft or watched videos of it but have gone to a store selling video games, though, they’re sure to have seen him on the boxart for physical copies or in the game merch section.

 

[Diem]

As an inverse to characters you'd want because of how they look, I know a lot of people are fans of Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Rex and Pyra, but I think their character designs are atrocious. I know a lot of people would be happy to have them in the game, so I wouldn't be angry about it or anything, but I can't stand looking at them.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Meh I think my standing on 3rd parties keeps me from wanting this. Like let Jiggly Puff, WFT and other Nintendo characters be the joke characters, but 3rd parties should be great icons worthy to join Smash or at the very least icons that are closely tied to Nintendo (looking at you Bayo).

Trust me I know I am a Nintendo elitist when it comes to Smash XD.

Gotta single Bayo out like that when Sonic is even closer to Nintendo...jk of course

 

[praline]

As an inverse to characters you'd want because of how they look, I know a lot of people are fans of Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Rex and Pyra, but I think their character designs are atrocious. I know a lot of people would be happy to have them in the game, so I wouldn't be angry about it or anything, but I can't stand looking at them.

Mythra’s design is alright but Rex and Pyra are total eyesores, Pyra was designed by a hentai artist because of course. Thankfully if they get in they’ll be dlc so we won’t have to have them.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Well I'm going to sleep happy that Minecraft Steve has a 0% chance of making it into the roster.

I would retire from smash if he were ever added in over 3rd party characters like Simon Belmont, Goku, Rayman, Banjo and Kazooie and master chief

> Would retire from smash if Steve made it in
> Sees Steve as a worse choice than Goku

Those are some weird standards bro

 

[Enchess]

Meh I think my standing on 3rd parties keeps me from wanting this. Like let Jiggly Puff, WFT and other Nintendo characters be the joke characters, but 3rd parties should be great icons worthy to join Smash or at the very least icons that are closely tied to Nintendo (looking at you Bayo).

Trust me I know I am a Nintendo elitist when it comes to Smash XD.

Well, Tetris was once upon a time a huge deal for Nintendo. They had at least some rights exclusivity for a time and a lot of Tetris fans' favorite versions are the Nintendo one (I still swear by the original Gameboy version as the superior version of the game for a few reasons). Tetris block would be more of a Megaman level of relation character than a Cloud level character.

But I'm a Nintendo elitist specifically in regards to Smash as well, so I get that. I'd actually be curious to see what 3rd parties other "Nintendo elitists" would choose if they were forced at gunpoint to include 3. For me, it'd be Neku, someone from Octopath (Primrose or...well, no spoilers), and Momohime. Of course my Nintendo preference is still showing since all 3 either started or still are Nintendo exclusive.

 

[staindgrey]

Mythra’s design is alright but Rex and Pyra are total eyesores, Pyra was designed by a hentai artist because of course. Thankfully if they get in they’ll be dlc so we won’t have to have them.

Wait. Was she actually or are you being facetious?

Because that would explain so much about the game's character designs.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I'm a Zelda fan, yet have never beaten a single Zelda game, I feel kinda bad about it xD

Which one should i start with? I have BOTW, Oot, And Links Awakening

 

[ColietheGoalie]

This whole "Minecraft artstyle" or "Ugh, fanbase" debate gave me an idea for a discussion topic...

Are there any characters you support because of how they look, or their concept, or fanbase, or whatever, but you have never touched their respective games or have any knowledge of the character outside of their wiki page? By the same token, are there any Smash characters you like a lot but don't know anything about more than their trophy?

For me, Spring Man is the big one. I've know basically nothing about ARMS, but I really started to like the concept and I'd love to see him in since he looks fun. I also really like Azura despite not having played Fates (or any Fire Emblem) just based on the idea of a waterbender/spear/dancer moveset.

As for the Smash characters I like to play but don't have experience in their games...ultroy:

K. Rool - Never played a DK game outside of a tiny bit of 64 way back in the day, but an insane crocodile in a cape is Grade A villain material in my books
Skull Kid - Never played the game, but it's a very interesting and iconic design
Simon - No Castlevania at all, but he has lots of Nintendo history and seems like he could brings fantastic moves/stages/songs with him

Xenoblade Character - Never played the series, but the music is fantastic, so I want more of that!

 

[staindgrey]

> Would retire from smash if Steve made it in
> Sees Steve as a worse choice than Goku

Those are some weird standards bro

Not that I support Goku as a Smash character, but he's actually appeared on a Nintendo console in 42 separate games.

Something to think about.

 

[elephant13]

I'm a Zelda fan, yet have never beaten a single Zelda game, I feel kinda bad about it xD

Which one should i start with? I have BOTW, Oot, And Links Awakening

Wind Waker

but out of your choices OoT, although parts are a little dated tbh

 

[Enchess]

I'm a Zelda fan, yet have never beaten a single Zelda game, I feel kinda bad about it xD

Which one should i start with? I have BOTW, Oot, And Links Awakening

Of those I like BotW most overall, OoT feels the most representative of the series as a whole, and Link's Awakening is all those indescribable qualities that make Zelda special in concentrated form, but not quite up to par on gameplay or presentation.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Wind Waker

but out of your choices OoT, although parts are a little dated tbh

Thing is, I'm on the Dungeon where the Ghosts steal the fire, and I accidently hit a switch that tilted the rooms when i wasn't supposed too. And i don't know what to do now. Also just not motivated to play it rn tbh

 

[DJ3DS]

By the same token, are there any Smash characters you like a lot but don't know anything about more than their trophy?

For me, this is actually my main.



The actual ROB peripheral had been and gone long before I was even born! My only experience with him pre-smash was in MKDS, which I think counts.

Honorable mentions to as well.

 

[praline]

Wait. Was she actually or are you being facetious?

Because that would explain so much about the game's character designs.

As far as I’m aware, yes she actually was.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I'd actually be curious to see what 3rd parties other "Nintendo elitists" would choose if they were forced at gunpoint to include 3.

1) Banjo-Kazooie - Some quality N64 platforming, that in my mind will always represent that era in a big way
2) Phoenix Wright - So intrinsic to the Gameboy/DS systems that in my mind he pretty much is a Nintendo character
3) Tetris - HUGE on the original Gameboy, and I saw a moveset that actual looked super fun/amazing

 

[elephant13]

Thing is, I'm on the Dungeon where the Ghosts steal the fire, and I accidently hit a switch that tilted the rooms when i wasn't supposed too. And i don't know what to do now. Also just not motivated to play it rn tbh

my general rule (for any videogame) is that if its taking much such a long time that it diminishes the fun, I just look up a walkthrough.

I don't think that there's any way to actually get stuck in any zelda game (as far as I know) so there should be a way out of your problem. just retrace your steps from the beginning with a walkthrough. You'd be surprised at how little time that will take.

 

[staindgrey]

I'm a Zelda fan, yet have never beaten a single Zelda game, I feel kinda bad about it xD

Which one should i start with? I have BOTW, Oot, And Links Awakening

If you have access to it, A Link Between Worlds is a fantastic modern take on the classic Zelda, which is less daunting to get through than 3D Zeldas.

My personal favorite is Twilight Princess, though I'm in a significant minority on that one. It and Skyward Sword are the only 3D Zelda games that can suck you into their story and not just their gameplay-- and Skyward Sword's gameplay can eat ****.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

my general rule (for any videogame) is that if its taking much such a long time that it diminishes the fun, I just look up a walkthrough.

I don't think that there's any way to actually get stuck in any zelda game (as far as I know) so there should be a way out of your problem. just retrace your steps from the beginning with a walkthrough. You'd be surprised at how little time that will take.

Can't find a guide for if i messed up lol